Author Topic: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.  (Read 29436 times)

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
  • keep it simple
Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« on: December 01, 2014, 12:39:59 PM »
I've tested three of the more common ways of using SATA on Mac Os 9 computers:

- A cheap SATA to PATA converter, connected to a ATA100 port.
- A Sil3112 based adapter, like Sonnet Tempo SATA, SeriTek/1S2 or similar flashed card.
- And a Seritek 1eVE2+2, a full length (64 bits) PCI card.

All of them were connected to the same Samsung 840 evo SSD in the same computer. (but not at the same time LOL)

Those are the results in MB/sec:



The SATA to PATA do a really good job, because it reaches the real limit of a ATA 100 bus. But both PCI cards have a bit disappointment results, especially the SIL3112 based, (most Sonnet users have complained about this), as its max transfer speed is far away from the 128MB/s of the 33 Mhz 32 Bits PCI bus, not to mention the 150MB/s of the standart sata 1 specifications. The Seritek 1eVE2+2 have a better result, but far away from the 256MB/s of the 33 Mhz 64 Bits PCI bus. Even Though this card achieved 190 MB/sec in the SSD raid test.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 01:00:01 PM by MacTron »
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
  • just a number
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2014, 02:37:26 PM »

great, thanks.

one could say using a PCI based SATA card to connect HDs only makes sense when you need the additional ports it gives you.

how do you think the 64 bit card would perform in a non 64 bit PCI slot?
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline Protools5LEGuy

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2761
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2014, 02:39:56 PM »


how do you think the 64 bit card would perform in a non 46 bit PCI slot?


I bet a little better than SiI 3112
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2014, 04:34:07 PM »
83mb/s is plenty fast enough tbh.. this speed is WAY faster then
any disk made in 2002 thats for damn sure!!
great job on this chart mactron;)
great reference... ;D  8)

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
  • keep it simple
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2015, 06:22:39 AM »
I have made new test, including the Acard 6290M.
This card perform worse than the SIL3112 based and very near to the SATA to PATA adapter results.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Apfel

  • Enthusiast Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 04:31:28 PM »
In what G4 did you test the Cards?

Did you use XBench? Because XBench would explain the unrealistic speeds.

If you copy files by hand and stop the time and then calculate the speed you get the following in a G4 Sawtooth:
- PCI 32bit: 35MB/s max
- PCI-X 64bit in PCI 32bit Slot: 62MB/s max

Tested with:
- Sonnet 2x2 SATA-II PCI (SIL3124 chip), bootable
- "PC"-4xSATA-PCI-X card (SIL3124) with Mac drivers, not bootable
- Macally 2xSATA intern, 1x SATA extern, 1x IDE intern, PCI 32bit, bootable


On the paper the 32bit technology shouldn't be able to reach speeds like you got, anyway, IIRC.

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
  • keep it simple
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 01:15:10 PM »
In what G4 did you test the Cards?
I did test in a G4 MDD.
Quote
Did you use XBench? Because XBench would explain the unrealistic speeds.
There isn't a Mac Os 9 version of XBench. AFAIK
Quote
If you copy files by hand and stop the time and then calculate the speed you get the following in a G4 Sawtooth:
You will obtain very different results, depending on the size and fragmentation of the files been copied.

Quote
- PCI 32bit: 35MB/s max
- PCI-X 64bit in PCI 32bit Slot: 62MB/s max

Tested with:
- Sonnet 2x2 SATA-II PCI (SIL3124 chip), bootable
- "PC"-4xSATA-PCI-X card (SIL3124) with Mac drivers, not bootable
- Macally 2xSATA intern, 1x SATA extern, 1x IDE intern, PCI 32bit, bootable
Typical results on SiL3124 and a slow HD.

Quote
On the paper the 32bit technology shouldn't be able to reach speeds like you got, anyway, IIRC.
You are wrong. The max speed of a 32 bits PCI bus is 132Mb/s.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
  • just a number
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 01:40:56 PM »
if i have to copy terabytes of files i do that under OSX and then files are copying with the theoretical read and write speed limits of the disks. (around 115 mb/s in my case)
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline Bob_D

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 4
  • new to the forums
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 03:47:45 AM »
Keeping this tread alive!
I just tested ide>sata bridge vs pci digitus sil3512 with wiebe flash vs sonnet tempo with Intenso 120GB SSD. Powermac G4 Dual 450.
Startup-times +/- 40 sec bridge, +/- 60 sec Sil 3512 and 45 sec for Sonnet. Around 20 sec more for 2,5" hitachi HDD (sata).
Digitus card bootable in 10.4.11 with WiebeFlash (needed to manually install the wiebe kext) unable to install in 10.5.8 but recognized - not bootable but usable. Not seen in os 9!
So for compatibility, price and speed ide to sata bridge looks the best solution for older G4's if you want to use os 9 and osx.

Offline trag

  • Valued Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • new to the forums
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 03:39:53 PM »
I have made new test, including the Acard 6290M.
This card perform worse than the SIL3112 based and very near to the SATA to PATA adapter results.

Some of Acard's early SATA products were exactly the same chips as their PATA product with a PATA to SATA bridge added just before the SATA connector.

Not sure about the 6290 in particular though.

macStuff

  • Guest
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 03:54:10 PM »
I have made new test, including the Acard 6290M.
This card perform worse than the SIL3112 based and very near to the SATA to PATA adapter results.

i can confirm that - as i have an acard 6290M here and i made a similar observation.
it doesnt really matter though because theres not many of these floating around for sale from what i can see they are somewhat rare to find now..
but it still works fine in raid formation and provides ability to do hardware RAID which is the most usefull purpose of the card rather than
being the #1 speed benchmark


Offline trag

  • Valued Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • new to the forums
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 03:02:07 PM »
I like Acard's products.  My previous post was not meant as a criticism, just a reporting of facts.

Acard often wasn't the fastest, but I found their products to be solid and back in the day, their email support was pretty good, and they continued to respond to support emails for a number of years after they discontinued the Mac products.

I have about 40 AEC-6880 cards in the attic, that I'm going to convert to 6880M cards, one of these days.   Been meaning to do that for more than five years.   Just too much life in the way.

macStuff

  • Guest
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 05:35:30 PM »
i have a 6880M and that card gives some very good speeds!! despite being PATA x 4
i had used sata drives with each drive having a sata to IDE converter/adapter
and it was very good performance from the 6880M - but then again all that info is
here on the site

Offline DieHard

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2373
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 07:03:07 PM »
Quote
I like Acard's products.  My previous post was not meant as a criticism, just a reporting of facts.

Acard often wasn't the fastest, but I found their products to be solid and back in the day, their email support was pretty good, and they continued to respond to support emails for a number of years after they discontinued the Mac products.

There stuff is Top Notch engineering... but mucho $$$$
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2569.0.html

« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 07:21:34 PM by DieHard »

macStuff

  • Guest
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 08:08:48 PM »
i think its the company that bought their holdings that is to blame for that. 2san inc or whatever
ive watched them change their prices on ebay quite alot doing down to 25% of what its at now and then they put it smack high! right back up after

everyone likes to charge an instant extra 100 bucks if its a SCSI device of some sort


Offline DieHard

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2373
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2018, 08:55:44 AM »
Quote
ive watched them change their prices
Spot on... the ACARD 2133 is now $199 !! over $100 more than when I made the post in 2015

Also, their website looks like a middle school kid made it, I can't believe They let it go live. Reminds me of a "wayback" site circa 2004
http://www.acard.com/

macStuff

  • Guest
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2018, 02:35:38 PM »
i had them offer me some deals in the past only to have them refuse when i wanted to proceed with it..
i honestly think they are just liquidators sitting on a large inventory of "stuff" some tech some not
actually they gave me my 6290m card for only 40$ so they were nice to me but yea there prices change up + down they are all
about the profit and trying to see how much they can get for their stuff - but hey.. thats capitalism right?
but alot of their "converter" products are way way overpriced you can ttell they are thirsty for $$$$

Offline trag

  • Valued Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • new to the forums
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 11:54:44 AM »
Back around 2005 the AEC-7220 (IIRC, SCSI to PATA converter) was available on Ebay for about $10 - $15 each and there were scores of them for sale.   One fellow had at least 100 used ones he was liquidating, and there was a bunch of lots of 10 new in OEM  wrap (no boxes) from another seller.

Similarly for the other products (PCI cards). 

Back when these products were current, 2SAN was one of two or three USA distributers.   When the products were discontinued, I guess they ended up with a bunch of stock one way or another.

This was one of those items that we should have hoarded at the time.   But who could predict that there'd be a storm of cheap stuff, and then a drought.

Offline Trace-Elliot

  • Enthusiast Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • brand new member
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2019, 03:47:45 AM »
what is in 2019 the best solution ?

I saw SIL 3124 PCI Cards arround 6 Euro including shipping .

Acard , Seritek (Firmtek) and Sonnet Cards are disapered from the marked  ( hope they┬┤re are all not end up at the recykling yard >:(   ).

I need 2 of this Cards ( 2 Channels are enough for me since the SSDs drop thier prices)

tons of Digidesign Hardware and historic apple maschines .... based in germany ...

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2116
  • keep it simple
Re: Time for the true. SATA speed In Mac Os 9.
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 12:22:20 PM »

I saw SIL 3124 PCI Cards arround 6 Euro including shipping .

Don't forget that those cheap SIL 3124 PCI Cards don't work in Mac Os 9. It need a EEPROM replacement and reflashing.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.