“…was there a separate 9.1 install for the b+w g3 series? the 450 was in the second release generation second wave of b+w g3?”

Unaware of such a thing.

Only thing that I can think of offhand, was a firmware updater once offered. But don’t think that’s necessary in your case, as it does accept and run OS 9.04 — just fine. Wouldn’t hurt to check though, I suppose.

I do wonder what expansion cards might still be present inside when you attempt the 9.1 update? You know, the old hoodoo voodoo of removing everything except what is barely necessary for basic minimum function… when installing or updating the OS? (I’m thinking specifically of that SiL 3112 card AND of course anything else?) Yes, now I am clutching at straws.

And I’m not exaggerating when I say that I spent many hours (totaling many cumulative DAYS) fighting and cursing my original B&W - after my original installation of OS X. It actually led to me giving up on Macs entirely for about ten years.

I assume that your original, stock 450 MHz B&W came with the Revision 2 motherboard, featuring the 646U2-402 CMD chip?

                 

If not, well then there’s another possible fly-in-the-proverbial-ointment. (More clutching at straws.)

Really, if you don’t actually have a specific need for OS 9.1 — skip the sequential ritual and go straight to OS 9.2.

AND possibly related… did an OS 9.2 Mac mini install here last night and upon reboot afterwards, got that freeze as it was attempting to load AirPort extensions, etc. No happy Mac icon, just a white screen freeze like the B&Ws have done here in the past. Command+option+esc got me out of that and then into the Setup Assistant (which I also skipped with that same keystroke combo). Then, manually powered down and rebooted with Command+ Option key combo in order to rebuild the desktop and all was then a-ok and with a full, clean boot / with no hangs or freezes.

AND there’s no mention of that Airport thang until after the Command+option+esc sequence. Just a dead white frozen screen.

But believe me, I completely understand the never-say-die desire to get the sequential route to work as it should.

I hope that you solve it! (Do keep us all posted?)

i found another 9.1 update CD that i had burned from years ago, and trying to boot the cd itself yields the exact same result as i got after updating.. the cursor freezes and u never get the happy mac logo and it doesnt boot!

its got macosrom 9.1 it says in finder but if u look at cmd -i info it says macos rom 6.1
i was thinking its the macosrom files fault.. still not sure

was there a seperate 9.1 install for the b+w g3 series? the 450 was in the second release generation second wave of b+w g3

i do happen to have a quicksilver 933 sitting here lonely + powered off for many years
but ya, trying to start from the os8.6 cd that came with the g3 for this for whatever reason

ill give it a go tonight trying to find alternate source for 9.1 update/cd

Think I’ve another 2003 MDD J20 RAM slot problem here.

This 1.25 GHz SP MDD, loaded with four 512 MB RAM sticks would only occasionally fully boot from a cold start before freezing and then NOT completely restart (or fully boot) before immediately freezing. And by now don’t we all know to remove all but one stick of RAM and then test and retest with each stick of RAM alone, in order to possibly determine if there’s a bad stick. Right?

Well how many of us (like myself) usually test in this manner, leaving (or placing) each individual stick in the MDD’s J20 RAM slot? (In my case, thinking that the J20 slot is the first memory slot addressed by the machine.) So, when testing this machine in this manner… none of the four sticks individually would allow the MDD to fully boot before freezing. Was all of the RAM faulty?

NO.

Placing any of the four sticks individually, in other than the J20 slot… would then allow the MDD to fully boot. Seems like this is more than just a bit familiar to me.

See: https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6285.msg47109#msg47109

Now I do wonder just how many MDDs might have somehow ended up e-wasted or otherwise possibly abandoned… simply because of this expanded  J20 RAM slot condition?

             

Sure, I could run just three, 512 MB sticks in the J21, J22 and J23 slots for a total of 1.5 GB... or try a 1 GB stick + two 512 MB sticks for 2 GB — and leave the J20 slot empty. (Or so I have been told.) Or I could even swap out the mobo with another mobo, without this J20 slot problem? But still, I wonder what is the root cause of this problem?

RAM placed in the J20 slot here seems to be a bit more loose in the slot and as mentioned in the link above… but this was remedied before with a slightly “thicker” stick of RAM that seems to now have solved that problem since 2022. (0.003 inch thicker!) And as much as I swap RAM in and out of machines I first thought that the “loose” J20 slot was a result of possible “wear”. But now I wonder if it might be a consequence of its location near the GPU and all of that heat emanating from that GPU heatsink over time? And perhaps especially… if the GPU has also been powering an Apple ADC monitor for most of its life?

GPU pictured above has a fan, whereas this MDD and the previous one here did not. Lot of cumulative running heat cycles to consider since 2003. And I found no weakened or faulty J20 solder joints back in 2022 with the other machine. So I assume that some heat related expansion of this slot (over time) might actually be the culprit?

I may swap out the mobo and retest all over again. And if that works, Mardeec might be getting this MDD back to use — or to possibly even sell on good ol’ flea-bay. Can anyone resist having at least one of these MDDs, especially one like this in near perfect condition? I think Mardeec’s original $1.00 offer to Forum members for this machine is no longer in effect.

https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7630.msg59104#msg59104

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Anyone running a 1 GB RAM stick in an MDD (or Quicksilver)? Do speak up please.

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UPDATE:
Found a loose, thicker (0.053 inch) 256 MB stick of RAM here last night and inserted that into the J20 slot, which brought the RAM total up to 1.75 GB. It then booted and ran flawlessly, playing music CDs for 3 hours without fail. So… swap mobos or just accept the 1.75 GB as good enough (for now)?

Well, as my luck goes… the first B&W booted here yielded this weirdo, massive listing of ATI extensions (with the many duplicates). This might require some further attention here?

       

The second B&W booted here was a bit more brief.
Maybe check if you’ve only these 9 ATI extensions?

       

But still, no clue as to what I disabled. If necessary, I’ll boot a third B&W here and check it. BUT do try the command+option+ESC key combo when attempting to reboot after an installation and that might reveal what is hanging your B&W. (Seems like there’s some AirPort related extension that also needs the keystroke combo too, in order to fully boot as well.)

And of course, this may be relevant for OS 9.1 — as it is for 9.2.2?
And yes, I’d skip the 9.1 install and jump to the 9.2.2 install instead.

Then there’s also the matter of removing the Multiprocessing Folder.

IF necessary, I’ll do a re-install of OS 9.2 tonight / tomorrow and let ya know which extensions might be the problem. Lemme know how it goes for you.

i have 3 b/w's, one with the 21" crt and the other with the 15" lcd (albeit nonworking component/svideo)....

i want to build a Pro Tools 4.3.2 rig with Pro Tools|24 MIX cards with Mac OS 8.6 some day i get to it

Yes indeed, the B&Ws can be harsh mistresses when it comes to installing OS 9.2.2 and perhaps even more so… complete and utter bitches when attempting to install using the B&Ws themselves.

Finally (after a great deal of time and hair pulling) I resorted to doing OS 9.2.2 installs on HDs and SSDs destined for the B&Ws, by doing the installations for those, from within Quicksilvers, MDDs, etc. first AND then moving them into the B&Ws. (Much faster and considerably less hair pulling.) I have used both the OS 9.2.2 Universal installer AND most often, OS 9.2.2 via MacTron’s Rescue & Install disc. Both avoid the tedious sequential approach that we have all come to know and not dearly love.

However, there are some caveats (or stumbling blocks) to the above approach AND possibly what you might also be suffering from with your current efforts? There is one specific installed ATI extension IIRC (I’ll need to check which one) that if not disabled during… or after install, will freeze solid and not allow full booting of the B&W. When and if that happens during restart after the install, you can get around it using the command+option+ESC keystroke combo.

And there might be another extension that also requires that keystroke combo too in order to get the fresh 9.2.2 install to get through the initial restart after the installation. (OS 9.1 might also have those same problems requiring the escape keystroke combo?) At any rate, you might try this when attempting reboot with your current 9.1 install just to see if you can avoid the whole mess you’re currently having.

I have four, fully operational B&Ws here and I think all four now have SSDs. One even uses a SiL 3112 and most have the original ATI Rage 128 video cards. (One or two of them have additional video cards for second monitors. Point here being that they’re all stable running OS 9.2.2 and Tiger.)

Only last year did I even attempt to also install 8.6 on one of them, just for grins.

Now I’ll go check which extensions I did disable (for the nightmare that the B&W’s can be) and get back to you.

the mac pro is more modern so it should need less when idling, but i think it has one fan more than a QS.

maybe get a power measuring device for 3 euros? those cheap ones are inaccurate below 3 watts, but work fine otherwise.

p.s.: actually, when i don´t forget, i can try it in the next days.

i think theres a "BAD" copy of macos9.1 update + installer CD posted for download on a few of the usual suspect sites
also perhaps my problem could be related to a bad burn or a time-degraded compact disc
maybe i need to find a legit mac os9.1 cd that is in good shape + image it

is the crash/fault happening because i skipped the 9.0.4 update?
i recall reading that it was important to install the updates in sequential order
but 9.0.4 isnt required to install 9.1 (as it let me run the installer sitting at 9.0)
i dunno man would really like to move past this wierdness + on to bigger + better things
the b+w g3 was a very influential machine but its so much more of a pain in the ass to deal with than the sawtooth or later offerings... the hold option boot picker sure saves alot of pain in the ass booting off bootable cds to change startup disk and such!

ive used the original 8.6 "install + restore" cd for this specific g3 450 b+W which the files on the cd are dated frm apr/may 99.. that particular install boots fast and works great on this machine as it should it came with it lol the upgrade 9.0 first i used an international 9.0 cd, and now im using the En-US standard retail version that is posted on mac repository... the 9.1 update ive tried a seperate cd and ive tried an update file and they both end up with the same result - somethign cooks my install and i cant boot even once after rebooting after doing the upgrade/update