Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Hardware => Topic started by: Protools5LEGuy on March 27, 2014, 06:14:20 PM
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I have one 866 DP MDD. Can I use a 1.25 DP module with 866 DP MDD heatsink?
I readed somewhere there are 3 heatsinks for MDD DP. Aluminium Thick, Aluminium Thin and Copper Ones.
I plan to unleash the 166 bus at first, and buy a 1.25-1.42 cpu module from USA and keep using my original 866 DP heatsink. Is posible that, MDD friends?
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Also I want to know from DieHard and Mactron about the best solutions for MDD
I mean AirBlow vs Liquid Cooling setups
I should only get 1.066 GHz clocking the 866 module with stock cooling.
My MDD 866 has original(?) 400W PSU
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for anything above 1.25ghz dual you want to get the copper heatsink. 400w is the "old" power supply which tends to be noisier without modifications.
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for anything above 1.25ghz dual you want to get the copper heatsink. 400w is the "old" power supply which tends to be noisier without modifications.
And the 1.25 DP cpu can be refreshed with the MDD 866 DP heatsink?
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is it the low profile one? then i would say no. my 1.25 ghz dual with the high aluminium heatsink already gets pretty hot.
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i have this same 867mhz MDD! -afro-
so i look forward to reading your progress !
i have to say that my mdd does not get very hot at all.
but then again, i did install extra fans on the back, 2 near the heatsink
1 blowing in each direction.. i had to cut these fans with a dremel tool
to make them fit in this location as the ones i got were sligthly too big..
its a ttotal hackjob but it is silent + cools well!
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i have this same 867mhz MDD! -afro-
so i look forward to reading your progress !
i have to say that my mdd does not get very hot at all.
but then again, i did install extra fans on the back, 2 near the heatsink
1 blowing in each direction.. i had to cut these fans with a dremel tool
to make them fit in this location as the ones i got were sligthly too big..
its a ttotal hackjob but it is silent + cools well!
A Picture perhaps?
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Heatsinks for MDD (my measures) :
Aluminium Thin: 0 C
Aluminium Thick: −1,7 C
Copper: −5C
With single CPU or Dual Up to 1,25 you can use aluminium Heatsinks. But with dual CPU over 1.25 Ghz the copper heatsink is the best option for sure.
I haven't tested liquid cooling setups. I have one dual 1.42 overclocked to 1.66. I hadn't made it to work fully stable with room temperature over 24C. "Luckly" this only happens a few weeks a year arround here :)
It is unique in the world that works with case closed -I think-
I'll put pictures if interested. But -in advance- this MDD is heavily modded :)
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please post a picture!!
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for anything above 1.25ghz dual you want to get the copper heatsink. 400w is the "old" power supply which tends to be noisier without modifications.
Any know an 3rd part. MDD cooler. Cooler Master, Nox, etc or a kit to adapt others?
The Copper ones are REALLY hard to find these days. And the price is $$$ compared to 120 mm fans heatsinks from socket 478, socket A, socket 775. Maybe we can find a model suitable for it cheaper than rare original copper ones.
http://www.alternate.es/html/listings/Hardware-Componentes-Refrigeraci%C3%B3n-Disipadores-de-CPU/11898?tk=7&lk=6559 (http://www.alternate.es/html/listings/Hardware-Componentes-Refrigeraci%C3%B3n-Disipadores-de-CPU/11898?tk=7&lk=6559)
I have http://www.alternate.es/Arctic/Freezer-7-Pro-Rev-2/html/product/138942? (http://www.alternate.es/Arctic/Freezer-7-Pro-Rev-2/html/product/138942?) on my Q6600 OC to 3 GHz without a trouble. It can handle 95 Watts of dissipation.
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lucky me, i just got a copper heatsink. and a whole mdd around swell -afro-
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please post a picture!!
Here You have:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=927.0
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lucky me, i just got a copper heatsink. and a whole mdd around swell -afro-
The copper Aftermarket coolers (and apple copper Coolers) were very common on ebay a few years back and were not that expensive... They are of course much better than stock (although I have only needed stock coolers); I have a few boxes of stock coolers for single and dual g4s and I can provide a free Apple stock (non-copper) cooler to anyone willing to pay shipping if I have the right one, I labeled most with a sharpie when I pulled them.
I do NOT work for welovemacs, but here is some info...
Apple part Number: Part Number: 076-0983, 076-0983-R
You can order it from them Here: http://www.welovemacs.com/0760983.html $69
Also found 1 on ebay here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-PowerMac-G4-1-42-dual-Copper-heatsink-upgrade-for-MDD-/131141663354?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item1e88a6fa7a
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To Diehard can you please inform me whether the copper
pipes on these mdd heatsinks are filled with liquid coolant?
And is it possible to use these copper pipes on the heatsink
to attach to a radiator and move coolant into and out of the
heat sink?
Thanks
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A Picture perhaps?
my original inspirational source thanks to mr bdaqua
http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/aircoolingmddg4a.html
the two fans by the heatsink make a huge difference..
i set mine up to push & pull so it makes a vortex of new air cooling + whisking
away the heat.. in order to properly install u might need to remove
the heatsink but i skipped this because i was lazy;) but i was still able to get my fans in place
i also was unable to use screws so instead i just used some twist ties to hold the fans sturdily
in place, and the power wires routed thru the heatink over to the drivebay area under the cds
where it connects to a 4pin molex
more from bdaqua's site:
http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/moremddcoolingmo.html
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To Diehard can you please inform me whether the copper
pipes on these mdd heatsinks are filled with liquid coolant?
And is it possible to use these copper pipes on the heatsink
to attach to a radiator and move coolant into and out of the
heat sink?
Thanks
Gas filled... not liquid... no Radiator possibility...
We have seen damaged coolers (bad nick in pipe) where we presume the gas escaped, and the cooler no longer functions and the system overheats, it is rare, but we have seen coolers of this type actually "go bad" on MDD and some HP/Toshiba laptops... the cooler stays cold and the heat no longer transfers (even after a fresh arctic silver job)... change the cooler and BAM.. works again
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So Diehard could this be done - I mean would it be possible?
Put simply
From radiator output 1 pipe into 2 out ext - joined to the start of the two separate
copper pipes on heatsink.
Then from the ends of these copper pipes take the two back to one rubber pipe
radiator input.
All I thought it would need would be some metal reinforcement (metal ring)
1 smaller pipe gauge than the copper pipe placed inside the copper
pipe to reinforce it when tightening a clamp - that's all.
What do you think? Any comments on the possibility?
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Who am I to say wether it is possible or not... where there is a will there is a way... I personally never tried it, I am not a fan of liquid cooled systems... this is just a bias statement due to many bad memories I have of the G5 liquid cooling fiasco where some models leaked so bad they blew MB, Processor, and Power Supply (located at the bottom) and basically turned an entire G5 into scrap... the new PC i5/i7 liquid cooling systems with "transmission radiators" seem to be rock solid... I guess only time will tell 8)
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Thanks.
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But you still need a MDD compatible heatsink.
Yes very True, but that stock Aluminum thick Heatsink (as opposed to the thin one that looks like stainless steel) that comes with the 2002 Dual 1.25 works perfectly, so just aquire the CPU, clean the heatsink and CPU (look online) and use a small amount of Arctic silver (very small amount). Very Easy Upgrade.
Also, from the MacTron Testing Labs, I will list the MDD heatsinks in order of BEST to Worst as far as heat transfer/Temperature:
1) Copper MDD Heatsink (comes with Dual 1.42 or buy aftermarket) TEMP = −5C
2) Thick Aluminum (Kinda looks like other G4 heasinks) TEMP = −1.7C
3) Thin Aluminum (Looks like stainless Steel) TEMP = 0C
Strange... :o ??? My MDD dual 866 has a thick Aluminium one and it has even the original AcBel PSU... Thick ones should be the oldest
From http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/mdd_cooling_mods/MDD_cooling_mods.html (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/mdd_cooling_mods/MDD_cooling_mods.html)
(http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/mdd_cooling_mods/MDDActiveCooling/P5230034.JPG)
The thin one
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/FePowered390/DSC_0066.jpg)
From page http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60191 (http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60191)
Included is the second best heat-sink for these computers.
The best is the copper one.
(http://sishardware.com/imgs/a/a/y/l/h/apple_powermac_g4_mdd_case_chassis_heatsink_fan_papst_4212_h_12v_120mm_3_lgw.jpg)
Some affirm Thin one is better than Thick one. MacTron the opposite...
I think the thin one you have tested could be damaged, because it was supposed to be better and more modern than thick one. I can be wrong and I shouldn't doubt any results from M.A.R.L.
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which models came with copper heatsink?
ive never seen one
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which models came with copper heatsink?
Apparently all 1.42 MDD (FW800)
What I dont get is why DieHard says 1.25 had thick as my 866 ?
I thought first ones had thick, later thin (stainless steel), and finally copper.
It could be that there are various 1.25 models, older ones and new ones.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=587.0;attach=574)
There are 4 models that can be called MDD 1.25...
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ive never seen one
Come on
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=267.0 (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=267.0)
http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/aircoolingmddg4a.html (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/aircoolingmddg4a.html)
We have posted this photo at least twice.
(http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/Resources/fancloseupjpg.jpeg)
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i meant in person.. i have not seen one in any of the mdds that i have found....
for sale.. available..
they always have the aluminum ones
i think the copper ones were not used for that long and that they are alot more rare and hard to find
to buy
i have never seen a 1.42 fw800 in person either
but here is one for sale
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-PowerMac-G4-M8841LL-A-1-42GHZ-15-DISPLAY-10-4-OS-9-2-MAXED-FREE-SHIP-/151514984402?pt=Apple_Desktops&hash=item2346ff2fd2
so i guess u are right
but yes my fans are set up exactly like the above pic..
one pushing out and one pulling in
but this is a better job then i did.. i had 80mm fan
and i had to cut the frame of the fan to make it fit
it is a total hackjob what i did lol
i think it would be better to use 60mm fan because they would fit better
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Apparently all 1.42 MDD (FW800)
What I dont get is why DieHard says 1.25 had thick as my 866 ?
I thought first ones had thick, later thin (stainless steel), and finally copper.
It could be that there are various 1.25 models, older ones and new ones.
From what I have observed...
Most of the The 2002 Dual 1.25 Ghz. Have Thick Aluminum
Most of the MDD 2003 Single 1.25 Ghz. have Thin Aluminum
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From what I have observed...
Most of the The 2002 Dual 1.25 Ghz. Have Thick Aluminum
Most of the MDD 2003 Single 1.25 Ghz. have Thin Aluminum
Thin Aluminium heatsinks (like steel) degrade its performance with time (Gas filled go heaven/hell) while thick ones performs like first day! You have to clean it but those are ethernal!
Glad the thick ones performs better than thin ones! I was thinking the opposite!
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I never measured temps, but I trust the MacTron Lab :)
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Any know an 3rd part. MDD cooler. Cooler Master, Nox, etc or a kit to adapt others?
http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/watercoolyourmda.html (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/watercoolyourmda.html)
(http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/Resources/Stainless-Steel-Platea.jpg)
http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/naturallyasperat.html (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/naturallyasperat.html)
(http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/Resources/dscf0007c.jpeg)
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Extremely Cool... (Temperature wise)... but adding more fan Noise would make me freak
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Extremely Cool... (Temperature wise)... but adding more fan Noise would make me freak
http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/zalmanmddiiaqua-.html (http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/zalmanmddiiaqua-.html)
(http://www.s155158671.websitehome.co.uk/Resources/dshotc.jpeg)
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Looks like he de-soldered two RAM slots as well. Not ideal ;)
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Great if you are Going SATA... but looses Ulta-DMA PATA/IDE 100 controller, no room for Hard drive there, Also Extra Fan on Back of case probably adds Noise also
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Looks like he de-soldered two RAM slots as well. Not ideal ;)
actually no he didnt if u read his site im pretty sure he explains that mdd was some educational or special model of some sort .. it came like that- if u look closer theres no reason to have to remove ram slots frm teh board he could have just removed the ram ifthere was a physical obstructon but there was not
im personaly surprised we havent seen more people do custom heatsink cooling solutions like those last 2 that pro tools le guy posted
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Looks like he de-soldered two RAM slots as well. Not ideal ;)
Not exactly true. MDD can support 1 Gig DDR memory sticks. With 2 you achieve Maximmum.
It is a pain in the ass to pull them off but at the Japamac/bdaqua/MacTron proof of concept level, the limit is nowhere.
MDDs are flexible. If you want room for the heatsink you take 2 there. If you want room for the AGP with modern double height fan, you can choose those other... ;D
Great if you are Going SATA... but looses Ulta-DMA PATA/IDE 100 controller, no room for Hard drive there, Also Extra Fan on Back of case probably adds Noise also
Yes, you loose room. But there out are dozens of 775/1156 heatsinks smallers than stock heatsink... The shit is to adapt them. Most mods made by Japamac/bdaqua/MacTron involves tools (Dremmel/saws/etc) that most of us don't have.
Even if you loose that place, you can still wire the IDE 100 controller to any other place, like over the CD bays or instead of the IDE 66 ones or even outside.
For sure 3 fans at full power sound louder than the original one.I would had changed that fan inside for a thin one between the plastic from outside and the metal cage as I ve seen elsewhere. Or cut the 2 bay to make it 1 bay.
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Not exactly true. MDD can support 1 Gig DDR memory sticks. With 2 you achieve Maximmum.
It is a pain in the ass to pull them off but at the Japamac/bdaqua/MacTron proof of concept level, the limit is nowhere.
We will discuss this further and make a new thread... some MDD boards DO NOT take 1 GB RAM sticks at all... they see them at 512MB and they fail extended tests. I have learned to use 512 MB quality modules over the years
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Extremely Cool... (Temperature wise)... but adding more fan Noise would make me freak
those pc style cpu coolers arent as loud as u would think..
compared to the crap apple put in mdd's to begin with
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im personaly surprised we havent seen more people do custom heatsink cooling solutions like those last 2 that pro tools le guy posted
Because the stock heatsinks works. Why fix something that isn't broken?
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Because the stock heatsinks works. Why fix something that isn't broken?
Yes, they work but rely on a LOUD central fan for all the system. That fan is someway far to the CPU heatsink. That make fan work at high RPM, (In case OS9/MDD hardware control that fan, that works full throttle on OS9) . MDDs are LOUD even changing all fans (PSU+BOX)
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Because the stock heatsinks works. Why fix something that isn't broken?
The stock setup is not very efficient. I had a MDD basically cook itself after a few years with the stock cooling. For a single-processor system and/or one that isn't maxed out, it should be adequate. Consider though that since they include three ATA controllers and slots for five cards, that some people might actually use those. Once you've got an optical drive, four hard drives, and a few full-length AGP and/or PCI cards that this drastically affects the airflow of the case. This is what they addressed with the much larger G5 cases by breaking the space into distinct zones rather than expecting a central fan / air conduit to handle everything.
One nice solution as IIRC DieHard mentioned is to use SSD drives, since they run so much cooler. But this would be something of an investment for me, since I have a big box of viable drives already.
My approach was to re-case the MDD, but I haven't completed it yet. I am running a FW800 stock now, and making a point to take it easy on this one in the meanwhile. My other MDD is in a SwordM case. What I did was disassemble a MDD case and isolate only the logic board mounting and port section of the back, which I then bolted into the SwordM. This is a much larger case with much more air flow than the MDD case. From there I was trying to implement a modest liquid cooling setup when I ran out of funds for the meanwhile. I hope to resume working on this system sometime.
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The stock setup is not very efficient. I had a MDD basically cook itself after a few years with the stock cooling. For a single-processor system and/or one that isn't maxed out, it should be adequate. Consider though that since they include three ATA controllers and slots for five cards, that some people might actually use those. Once you've got an optical drive, four hard drives, and a few full-length AGP and/or PCI cards that this drastically affects the airflow of the case. This is what they addressed with the much larger G5 cases by breaking the space into distinct zones rather than expecting a central fan / air conduit to handle everything.
One nice solution as IIRC DieHard mentioned is to use SSD drives, since they run so much cooler. But this would be something of an investment for me, since I have a big box of viable drives already.
My approach was to re-case the MDD, but I haven't completed it yet. I am running a FW800 stock now, and making a point to take it easy on this one in the meanwhile. My other MDD is in a SwordM case. What I did was disassemble a MDD case and isolate only the logic board mounting and port section of the back, which I then bolted into the SwordM. This is a much larger case with much more air flow than the MDD case. From there I was trying to implement a modest liquid cooling setup when I ran out of funds for the meanwhile. I hope to resume working on this system sometime.
http://swordm.thermaltake.com/ (http://swordm.thermaltake.com/)
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I have never seen a double box for any PowerPC setup
http://www.nox-xtreme.com/en/product/blaze-x2-project/38/ (http://www.nox-xtreme.com/en/product/blaze-x2-project/38/)
(http://www.nox-xtreme.com/upload/en/products/gallery/maxi/blaze-x2-project-5165850c52c64.jpg)
(http://www.nox-xtreme.com/upload/en/products/gallery/maxi/blaze-x2-project-5165850c52e60.jpg)
These kind of boxes are ideal for some setups. Liquid cooling placed up and light air flow for the rest of the system.
If you put the MDD PSU in this box Up with a big fan instead of the 2 demons it takes and those big fans for the drive will cool the memory/pci. You have the ultimate MDD ;D with 2 different "air flow zones".
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This looks like a well thought out case. Something would need to be done with the rear of it though because f the MDD board profile having the cards and ports offset. The SwordM works nicely because it has a rear door which covers the awkward metalwork needed to fit it all in there. But it's hard drive area is much more basic than the Blaze. Also one of the first things I did was replace the MDD PSU with an ATX PSU.
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I have no issue with the sound of the MDD. Replaced all the stock fans, have added a fan in the front of the case as well as behind the hetsink. Ripped of the G5's air tunnel idea ;)
Replaced the original cooling paste with some Arctic Silver.
It runs very quiet in OS9, even with it's overclocked Dual 1.25ghz (to 1.5ghz) CPU.
No issue having it right next to you in the studio.
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i think not everyone of us that have replaced the fans have gotten lucky with which fan manufacturer + model to use
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I have no issue with the sound of the MDD. Replaced all the stock fans, have added a fan in the front of the case as well as behind the hetsink. Ripped of the G5's air tunnel idea ;)
Replaced the original cooling paste with some Arctic Silver.
IMO, the power supply is the culprit, what did you do with the PS fans... Remove them ? Replace them ?
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IMO, the power supply is the culprit, what did you do with the PS fans... Remove them ? Replace them ?
Replaced them. The machine is as quiet as an iMac G4 under Mac OS 9.
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i meant in person.. i have not seen one in any of the mdds that i have found....
for sale.. available..
they always have the aluminum ones
i think the copper ones were not used for that long and that they are alot more rare and hard to find
to buy
i have never seen a 1.42 fw800 in person either
but here is one for sale
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-PowerMac-G4-M8841LL-A-1-42GHZ-15-DISPLAY-10-4-OS-9-2-MAXED-FREE-SHIP-/151514984402?pt=Apple_Desktops&hash=item2346ff2fd2
so i guess u are right
but yes my fans are set up exactly like the above pic..
one pushing out and one pulling in
but this is a better job then i did.. i had 80mm fan
and i had to cut the frame of the fan to make it fit
it is a total hackjob what i did lol
i think it would be better to use 60mm fan because they would fit better
interesting you noticed that FW800 on ebay too. I saw it as well, not curious about the heatsink as I was lucky enough to obtain two (may have an extra one or two available in near future if any of you might be looking as I worked out a pretty simple/decent way to mod a Corsair H80 water cooler and maybe soon H80i to mount to the G4 processor in FW400/FW800 MDD.. just finishing up last fan changes and I will take a few pics and list part numbers). Instead, curious if anyone knows what the squirrel cage fan is in that ebay auction? That has a very defined mount that seems to latch/grab/mount on to the pci card bracket for long cards. Suggests it was a part designed for the machine. Best I could find was that Avid may have included it with some sort of part/upgrade.
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Replaced them. The machine is as quiet as an iMac G4 under Mac OS 9.
Very curious what fans you used... I have tried many 60mm that move at least 30 CFM each... and never found any to be truly "quiet"
If you are using some that only move 18 to 20 CFM... how hot is your PS getting ?