Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Mac OS 9, Hacks & Upgrades => Topic started by: chrisNova777 on August 21, 2025, 10:37:29 PM
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hey guys
back at it first time in awhile with the b+w g3 450mhz!
man i forgot about how much of a pain in the ass these machines were!
so im workin with a b+w g3 450mhz
with seritek 1s2 sil3112 card aswell as a radeon 9200LE (given to me by Jerry thx jerry)
that i have been switching back and forth back to the original rage 128 GL card that came with the g3 because 8.6 will always boot up with the original graphics card becasue rage 128 support is cooked into the os.
so i beeen having huge issues..trying to find the right cds to use to install 8.6 + 9.2.2 on this machine!
basically where im at right now is if i upgrde to. macos9.1 it renders my partition unbootable and i have to start up from a bootable CD and use start up disk control panel to change which partition im booting to select a diff partition and i basically have to scrap my 9.1 upgaded system folder because it refuses to boot!!!!!! so i then have to nuke the whole partition and cloning (copying) my files from my 8.6 back to the other partition and start the process over again.. upgrading to 9.0 always works no problem.. is it something to do with it "updating my hard drive drivers" as it says it does during the upgrade/update (from 9.0 > 9.1)
the disk i have is a 160gb sata drive i scored
split into 3 partitions, on the machine in 8.6 using drive setup (hey it makes a difference! HOW you do something right?)
basically i have a 10.3.9 panther install on one of the partitions and then 2 partitions used for classic os 8.6 + 9.2.2
i was able + contnue to be aable to upgrade from 8.6 to 9.0 no problem but if i do the 9.0 to 9.1 it tanks my install and i cant boot up.. the cursor shows up and locks up and i never get a happy mac..
Has anyone ever encountered this or can anyone recall a reason for this?
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is the crash/fault happening because i skipped the 9.0.4 update?
i recall reading that it was important to install the updates in sequential order
but 9.0.4 isnt required to install 9.1 (as it let me run the installer sitting at 9.0)
i dunno man would really like to move past this wierdness + on to bigger + better things
the b+w g3 was a very influential machine but its so much more of a pain in the ass to deal with than the sawtooth or later offerings... the hold option boot picker sure saves alot of pain in the ass booting off bootable cds to change startup disk and such!
ive used the original 8.6 "install + restore" cd for this specific g3 450 b+W which the files on the cd are dated frm apr/may 99.. that particular install boots fast and works great on this machine as it should it came with it lol the upgrade 9.0 first i used an international 9.0 cd, and now im using the En-US standard retail version that is posted on mac repository... the 9.1 update ive tried a seperate cd and ive tried an update file and they both end up with the same result - somethign cooks my install and i cant boot even once after rebooting after doing the upgrade/update
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i think theres a "BAD" copy of macos9.1 update + installer CD posted for download on a few of the usual suspect sites
also perhaps my problem could be related to a bad burn or a time-degraded compact disc
maybe i need to find a legit mac os9.1 cd that is in good shape + image it
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Yes indeed, the B&Ws can be harsh mistresses when it comes to installing OS 9.2.2 and perhaps even more so… complete and utter bitches when attempting to install using the B&Ws themselves.
Finally (after a great deal of time and hair pulling) I resorted to doing OS 9.2.2 installs on HDs and SSDs destined for the B&Ws, by doing the installations for those, from within Quicksilvers, MDDs, etc. first AND then moving them into the B&Ws. (Much faster and considerably less hair pulling.) I have used both the OS 9.2.2 Universal installer AND most often, OS 9.2.2 via MacTron’s Rescue & Install disc. Both avoid the tedious sequential approach that we have all come to know and not dearly love.
However, there are some caveats (or stumbling blocks) to the above approach AND possibly what you might also be suffering from with your current efforts? There is one specific installed ATI extension IIRC (I’ll need to check which one) that if not disabled during… or after install, will freeze solid and not allow full booting of the B&W. When and if that happens during restart after the install, you can get around it using the command+option+ESC keystroke combo.
And there might be another extension that also requires that keystroke combo too in order to get the fresh 9.2.2 install to get through the initial restart after the installation. (OS 9.1 might also have those same problems requiring the escape keystroke combo?) At any rate, you might try this when attempting reboot with your current 9.1 install just to see if you can avoid the whole mess you’re currently having.
I have four, fully operational B&Ws here and I think all four now have SSDs. One even uses a SiL 3112 and most have the original ATI Rage 128 video cards. (One or two of them have additional video cards for second monitors. Point here being that they’re all stable running OS 9.2.2 and Tiger.)
Only last year did I even attempt to also install 8.6 on one of them, just for grins.
Now I’ll go check which extensions I did disable (for the nightmare that the B&W’s can be) and get back to you.
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i have 3 b/w's, one with the 21" crt and the other with the 15" lcd (albeit nonworking component/svideo)....
i want to build a Pro Tools 4.3.2 rig with Pro Tools|24 MIX cards with Mac OS 8.6 some day i get to it
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Well, as my luck goes… the first B&W booted here yielded this weirdo, massive listing of ATI extensions (with the many duplicates). This might require some further attention here?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7636.0;attach=15852;image)
The second B&W booted here was a bit more brief.
Maybe check if you’ve only these 9 ATI extensions?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7636.0;attach=15854;image)
But still, no clue as to what I disabled. If necessary, I’ll boot a third B&W here and check it. BUT do try the command+option+ESC key combo when attempting to reboot after an installation and that might reveal what is hanging your B&W. (Seems like there’s some AirPort related extension that also needs the keystroke combo too, in order to fully boot as well.)
And of course, this may be relevant for OS 9.1 — as it is for 9.2.2?
And yes, I’d skip the 9.1 install and jump to the 9.2.2 install instead.
Then there’s also the matter of removing the Multiprocessing Folder.
IF necessary, I’ll do a re-install of OS 9.2 tonight / tomorrow and let ya know which extensions might be the problem. Lemme know how it goes for you.
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i do happen to have a quicksilver 933 sitting here lonely + powered off for many years
but ya, trying to start from the os8.6 cd that came with the g3 for this for whatever reason
ill give it a go tonight trying to find alternate source for 9.1 update/cd
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i found another 9.1 update CD that i had burned from years ago, and trying to boot the cd itself yields the exact same result as i got after updating.. the cursor freezes and u never get the happy mac logo and it doesnt boot!
its got macosrom 9.1 it says in finder but if u look at cmd -i info it says macos rom 6.1
i was thinking its the macosrom files fault.. still not sure
was there a seperate 9.1 install for the b+w g3 series? the 450 was in the second release generation second wave of b+w g3
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“…was there a separate 9.1 install for the b+w g3 series? the 450 was in the second release generation second wave of b+w g3?”
Unaware of such a thing.
Only thing that I can think of offhand, was a firmware updater once offered. But don’t think that’s necessary in your case, as it does accept and run OS 9.04 — just fine. Wouldn’t hurt to check though, I suppose.
I do wonder what expansion cards might still be present inside when you attempt the 9.1 update? You know, the old hoodoo voodoo of removing everything except what is barely necessary for basic minimum function… when installing or updating the OS? (I’m thinking specifically of that SiL 3112 card AND of course anything else?) Yes, now I am clutching at straws.
And I’m not exaggerating when I say that I spent many hours (totaling many cumulative DAYS) fighting and cursing my original B&W - after my original installation of OS X. It actually led to me giving up on Macs entirely for about ten years.
I assume that your original, stock 450 MHz B&W came with the Revision 2 motherboard, featuring the 646U2-402 CMD chip?
(https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6127.0;attach=9268;imagehttp://)
If not, well then there’s another possible fly-in-the-proverbial-ointment. (More clutching at straws.)
Really, if you don’t actually have a specific need for OS 9.1 — skip the sequential ritual and go straight to OS 9.2.
AND possibly related… did an OS 9.2 Mac mini install here last night and upon reboot afterwards, got that freeze as it was attempting to load AirPort extensions, etc. No happy Mac icon, just a white screen freeze like the B&Ws have done here in the past. Command+option+esc got me out of that and then into the Setup Assistant (which I also skipped with that same keystroke combo). Then, manually powered down and rebooted with Command+ Option key combo in order to rebuild the desktop and all was then a-ok and with a full, clean boot / with no hangs or freezes.
AND there’s no mention of that Airport thang until after the Command+option+esc sequence. Just a dead white frozen screen.
But believe me, I completely understand the never-say-die desire to get the sequential route to work as it should.
I hope that you solve it! (Do keep us all posted?)
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I moved on to 9.X at the same time I retired all G3 B&W Towers. The B&W was a total beast running 8.6 and at the time I was using a PowerLogix 800 ZIFF CPU. It ran Cubase VST 4/24 night and day without issues and was my most beloved machine for a 2 year stretch. I did clearly update to 9.2.2 before I retired the B&W.
Maybe it's time for all G3 B&W towers to all die and be made into planters, tables, and other useful products ?
So an interesting note: I do have listed in my printed directory a separated "Fresh Drag" 9.2.2 install labeled for the B&W! So at the time I made it there is obviously a difference; I can search for it and upload if you wish, LMK if your done trying. I am guessing I clearly understood the difference when I made it 20+ years ago, so there will be a difference when comparing it to the famous G4 "Fresh drag Install"
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https://mac-classic.com/articles/mac-os-9-compatible-graphics-cards/
https://mac-classic.com/articles/mac-os-9-compatible-graphics-cards/ (https://mac-classic.com/articles/mac-os-9-compatible-graphics-cards/)
Try changing them and see if it works. I have a B&W with a cloned GE 9.2.2 Spanish installation and a 9200, and it works perfectly.
I hope this is the problem.
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yea sure if u have such a thing tailor made for the b+W wierdness i'll give it a go .. yea this machine never ceases to srprise me just when u think u have it tamed it does some wierd shit again!
i did try the freshdrag.img but it didnt work for me either.. had problems booting up. this machine is its own one of a kind animal acts + does wierd shit all the time unexpectedly lol
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is there any place where macosrom compatibilities incompatibilities are documented
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Getting my mac up and running and gonna zip it and put it on the Google drive for ya Chris
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Here’s some info from three different B&W G3s here.
The 400 MHz has the original HDD & only OS 9.2.2.
Other two also have an OS X Tiger-10.4.11 partition.
All have Revision 2 motherboards. 646U2-402 CMD
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7636.0;attach=15860;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7636.0;attach=15862;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7636.0;attach=15864;image)
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Instead of guessing, I'd suggest re-reading old xlr8yourmac website. There are tons of information there.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000815104712/http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/yosemite/problems.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20000815061413/http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/artnum/n11361
Also, @chrisNova777, make sure that your burned install CDs do not have any virus. You never know ..
I've got infected last year by some file downloaded from here, and, on the only other occasion when my Mac got infected by a worm (?) from pressed CD that came with musician's mag, it crashed badly and refused to boot. Just like yours.
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As far as I know, 8.7 is the first Mac OS ROM file for 9.2.2 and 10.2.1 is the last Mac OS ROM file for 9.2.2.
https://github.com/joevt/MacROMan/tree/master/TestImages/New%20World%20ROM
The Mac OS ROM files (for New World Macs) in that repository are missing resource forks so they're kind of useless unless you want to look at just the ROM data using tbxi
https://github.com/elliotnunn/tbxi
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I have these intact, with resource forks. If anyone needs any, you know the drill.
10.2.1
10.1.1
9.7.1
9.6.1
9.3.1
9.2.1
8.7
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just checked my macosrom on this macos9.0 partition, and it says macosrom 3.0 dated september 27 1999 - thats after i upgraded from 8.6 to 9.0
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/2434-graphicconverter-6-x
forgot the name of this app must be losing brain cells lol
on my 8.6 partition i believe its got macosrom 1.6 which, after installing up to os9.1 brought it to version 6.1? (and rendered the partition unbootable on this machine for wahtever reason)
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Check the link that @joevt posted of his GitHub repository. All folders with ROMs have nice names noting the OS installs that the ROMs came with.
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so whats the other possibility of whats happening here.. is it that the seritek 1s2 is causing a problem? because thats the only piece thats not stock here.. because i was using a 160gb drive i had to bypass the built in IDE port that only recognizes 128gb i think + because ide controllers on B+W are said to be haunted... lol this is a 450 tho second gen not first gen so the ide port would sort of work realiably albeit at ata-66 speed and with size limitation... i need to get to 9.2.2 from 9.0 tho somehow.. if the 9.1 update renders my machine unbootable.. and it makes u reboot eh! itried to say no dont reboot i wanted to keep installing the 9.2.1 update and the 9.2.2 updates before i rebooted but it makes u reboot
does anyone have a 9.1 update that works on the b+W g3 450 without making it not boot up after it reboots ;)
i guess i should experiment with changing the macosrom file to see what makes a difference... so far ive just been nuking the partition
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I will send you a link to the fresh drag install for the B&W on Saturday as soon as I can connect my external to an OS9 machine, I don't want to connect it to my modern macs. The fresh drag will allow you to boot to any version on OS9 on an external FW drive, format the internal boot drive and drag the files, then just reboot to internal for a complete and un-modified 9.2.2 install.
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Found bin-hexed files in a folder on a CD dated 12/17/2003 and they’re highly likely what I used to update to OS 9.1, 9.2.1, and 9.2.2 on a Lombard and the original B&W here. So while waiting for DieHard’s drag-n-drop, you might try these.
DH might be waiting on a Mac mini that I was to originally ship to him on Monday - but now it may not leave here until tomorrow… which means that he might get it on Saturday, or possibly next Monday.
In any case, warm up Stuffit Expander and party like it’s 2003.
Hope these work for you… and if not, there’s DieHard’s drag-n-drop
…also coming to you soon.
[A PM sent to you with links for these three files.]
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7636.0;attach=15880;image)
And yes, I’d pull that SiL3112 card before any attempt to install.
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I have a QS that needs a PS change, I can try that on Sat