Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Emulation => Topic started by: MigMac on September 09, 2024, 02:04:31 AM
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Running MacOS9 on MacOSX host (not relevant for Linux or Windows)
You all know SheepShaver, a MacOS8/9 emulator created by Gwenolé Beauchesne who eventually stopped developing it. However, the software is still maintained and updated by a dedicated team at Emaculation: https://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=20 (https://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=20)
Sheepshaver has well known limitations: MacOS 9.0.4 is the limit, there’s no way you can install MS Office 98 and a few other apps, unexpected crashes occasionally occur on restart**…those are the main cons !
That being said, when compared to other emulators/VMs it has quite a lot of pros: clipboard and mouse integration (+ live scrolling with appropriate control panels add-ons), shared folder, also you can mount about any disk image (.iso, .img, .dsk…) by simply dropping it onto the OS9 desktop.
**Whereas crashes and freezes often lead to the total corruption of a VM, this is rarely the case with Sheepshaver. You relaunch it and you’re done more often than not
Developer Ed Mendelson (https://mendelson.org/macos9osx.html) has taken Sheepshaver to another level. I’ve been ‘working’ with him for a couple of weeks and his App is now well beyond the Beta phase, definitely a fine tool to enjoy an emulated OS9. Don’t get me wrong, he did 98% of the job, fixing, improving and tuning the app, I was there just for testing and suggesting changes…
On top of providing a standalone App that spares users the Sheepshaver set up tasks, the App comes with a main disk packed with pre-installed apps and lots of interesting options for better integration with the Host. Simply drop a file onto the App icon and it pops up on your OS9 desktop. Within OS9, drop a file into the ‘copy to host’ alias and there you have it on the OSX desktop. With the special OSA Menu you can send a command line to the terminal or open an URL in your default OSX browser. The most interesting add-ons are the virtual printers: instead of using « PrintToPDF », « Adobe PDF Writer » or even better « Jaws PDF Creator » to place a .pdf into the Shared Unix folder and then print it, you can print whatever document you want directly: a command is sent to your OSX default printer.
MacOS9 App details: download link => https://mendelson.org/Mac%20OS%209.zip (https://mendelson.org/Mac%20OS%209.zip) (about 1,2 Gb)
(https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7296.0;attach=14511;image)
- Universal App (runs fine on Sonoma)
- RAM set to 1024 Mo
- Main Disk: 3,78 Gb with many pre-installed apps and utilities
- Second Disk: 3,78 Gb. Empty. You can enable it via the option menu. Press the option key when you launch the app.
(https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7296.0;attach=14509;image)
- Additional Disk: if you need an extra disc (to save huge PDFs, pics or vid files), you can add one. Make an empty image (no partition, the size you need) with Disk Utility, change the extension to .img instead of .dmg then drop it on to the MacOS9 App icon and follow the instructions. You’ll get a dialog from OS9 that will ask you to initialize the new disk. When you’re done, you’ll have your third disk on your OS9 desktop. It will be saved in the App package as AdditionalDisk.dsk.
- Emergency Disk: you can boot from it (option key when launch). It includes several tools: Disk Aid, Disk Warrior, TechTool Pro, Resorcerer. Once in a while it’s good to rebuild the graph of the boot disk with Disk Warrior, the system will run faster and maintenance tasks like rebuilding the desktop become far less time consuming.
- Boot from another disk or Cd-Rom: option key at launch, select the option
- Installers Folder: the main disk has such a folder, it includes all the installers that were used plus a selection of applications which the user might want to install as well (Word Perfect, File Maker, Conflict Catcher, Finder Pop and more…)
- Virtual printers: PDF on the OSX Desktop, direct printing to your default printer, select the printer if you have several printers on your network…those will work whatever your OSX system language is.
(https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7296.0;attach=14513;image)
As you can see on his page, Ed also built other Apps, I’m currently exploring his System 761 App based on Basilisk: https://mendelson.org/macos9osx.html#basilisk
I’m very pleased with my customized MacOS9 App, it sure can’t be compared to the real thing -i.e. a real Mac and its hardware- but as an emulated environment it’s definitely enjoyable, functional and thanks to some scripted routines, more stable than a standard Sheepshaver VM.
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Not being a SheepShaver (or emulation at all) user I still want to thank you for the info. It's great to see there's still a lot of work put into making the emulation experience better and in fact, it's for many people the only "Mac OS 9 experience" they have. (even though that makes many of us shudder :-D )
That said, I'll put a little news item on the mainpage and linking to your thread, MigMac, in hopes that those more interested in the MacOS9 App will find their way here! :)
EDIT: It's done! (http://macos9lives.com/)
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Thanks for him (Ed). Yes, any emulated environment can't be as good as the real thing. I had an iMac (G3, Indigo) something like 25 years ago, running MacOS 9.1. The good memories plus this kind of enhanced software will gradually lead me to buy myself a good G4 and dive again into real OS9 in a not so distant future.
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er... I wanted to edit the first post but I can't :-[
just a little yet very interesting additional info: with his latest version Edward Mendelson has embedded Crypto Ancienne (Carl and micro_inetd) into the app and pre-configured Classilla
=> you can now surf HTTPS :)
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Here's the dl link for what is going to be the final version for a while:
https://mendelson.org/Mac%20OS%209.zip
Note on the proxy and HTTPS surfing: it is enabled when you start the app and disabled on shutdown :)
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user experience with the app - Surfin'
been customizing the app for the web… quite nice so far
- HTTPS: Classilla
- HTTP: iCab (faster)
- News Groups: MT News Reader
- BBS: two FileClass clients + Captain’s Quarters patched app
- Hotline: Hotline, Panorama
- Gopher: Turbogopher, Classilla
- FTP: Transmit, Monica
- Radio: patched iTunes (from MacIntosh Garden)
- Weather: Weatherbot
Everything stable, not a single crash or freeze using those
It was a different story with KDX. I get an error message on launch (problem with the router regarding the UPnP protocol), it can connect though and using tracked.stickytack.com I saw there were a few things still alive (servers, users). Unfortunately, it seems quite unstable, Sheepshaver crashed twice. Will have another go and try to solve that config issue which might be the reason for the crashes, idk
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Eventually managed to have KDX working. The thing was to ignore the "configure UPnP" message on first launch (it was set by default in my router settings).
Well, it's not as dead as I thought: several trackers and servers still active there.
I spent a lot of time using KDX many years ago. Nostalgia shock !
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Haha! Well, Nostalgia can be such a nice thing in a proper dose ... as we chatted on Hotline the other day, no KDX experience here but I'm nonetheless interested to give it a try. Maybe we should talk about KDX (it's past and present) in another topic. I'm sure there's a bunch of people like me without KDX experience but some interest.
As for MacOS9 App from Ed Mendelson, this seems like the perfect solution for people wanting to experience Mac OS again without the commitment of buying hardware. Like some time ago I was talking to Neil Shapiro (the editor in chief of U.S. MacUser magazine) and he asked me for a simple solution to run MacOS and some Hypercard stacks on his modern Mac. This might be it.
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no proper experince if you are not proper comitted
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Like some time ago I was talking to Neil Shapiro (the editor in chief of U.S. MacUser magazine) and he asked me for a simple solution to run MacOS and some Hypercard stacks on his modern Mac. This might be it.
then running System761 might be even better: https://mendelson.org/macos9osx.html#basilisk
as it is based on Basilisk, the App is way more stable than MacOS9 App though Edward Mendelson managed to make it more reliable than a standard Sheepshaver VM.
If some developer(s) could improve that infamous restart crash with Sheepshaver (happens quite often) that would be a major improvement. Then the possibility to run versions superior to 9.0.4.
As I said before those occasional crashes and freezes seldom impact the VM. Not with MacOS9 App but with a standard SSVM, it happened to me just once, a crash that ruined the whole setup. Whenever that's possible, I choose the shutdown then start sequence rather than direct restart !!
I also use regular backups just in case, saving what is required: the disk, the VM or the whole app depending on the situation and the level of risk due to my "experiments".
With UTM, you have to save the whole thing all the time, a simple Finder freeze and you're dead, grrrr !
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Installed Netscape Navigator 3 with Protoweb proxies, nice
https://protoweb.org/
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For what it's worth, I also wrote a Windows version of this app, with some capabilities that don't exist in standalone SheepShaver for Windows:
https://mendelson.org/macos9win.html
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I've updated this app with the latest SheepShaver code, which may make restarts more reliable. If you already have a copy of the app, download the new version of my app and copy SheepShaver.app from the new version into your existing copy, replacing the existing SheepShaver.app.
PS This refers to the macOS version of the app.
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PS The download link is the same link already in the first post in this thread. And here it is again:
https://mendelson.org/macos9osx.html
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I'm not using it because I prefer "the real thing" (aka original hardware) but who knows, if I ever need to run emulation, I'll definitely pick your work first. Thank you for the hours you've put into this!
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Thanks for continuing to update this @emendelson. I just installed the latest version. It's a great service to the community.
My dream setup would be to have the hard drive permanently disconnected from the app (so the drive is not in the App bundle) so that we could upgrade the app without having to first export our files and re-import them. Also, as a point of feedback exporting to the Desktop is a bit cumbersome for those of us with iCloud Drive because it starts uploading our whole drive to the cloud. It may be better to export to the User's Home directory or even Downloads folder to avoid this issue.
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My dream setup would be to have the hard drive permanently disconnected from the app (so the drive is not in the App bundle) so that we could upgrade the app without having to first export our files and re-import them. Also, as a point of feedback exporting to the Desktop is a bit cumbersome for those of us with iCloud Drive because it starts uploading our whole drive to the cloud. It may be better to export to the User's Home directory or even Downloads folder to avoid this issue.
Thank you for this - and you raise two very good points...
First: I've thought of moving the disk image to the user's Application Support folder on first launch, but I haven't got around to it. I'll experiment with it - and it would have the benefit of making it possible to share the app on a multi-user system, though I doubt that many people are using multi-user systems. The one disadvantage would be that the first launch would be very slow while the disk is getting copied (or extracted from a ZIP archive) from the app to the user's Library.
Second, I don't use iCloud Drive, so I haven't come across that second problem. It shouldn't be hard to add an option to export to a different folder. I'm not at a Mac right now, so I can't check it, and it's been years since I wrote the AppleScript, but my guess is that you should be able to edit the launch-daemon AppleScript inside the bundle (it may have a name like macos9folder.scpt or something similar) and change it to use the Home or Downloads folder instead of the desktop. I'll look into this later and report. It shouldn't be hard to make it an option.
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And I got intrigued by this, and implemented the option that lets you choose the target for the "Copy to Host" feature; it can be the desktop, the Downloads folder, or the home folder. New version available now. Same download link as above.
Will now put some thought into storing the disk image in the Application Support folder.
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Thanks this is awesome. I appreciate your work and how open you are to feedback. I'm sure you're helping a lot of people run legacy software they need for their work and doing a great service to society with your project. Cheers.
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I wanted to avoid real work, so I rewrote the app so that it stores the disk images in the user's library instead of in the app itself. It's experimental, so please don't delete your existing setup. Also, backup your folder
~/Library/Application Support/MacOS9
before doing anything, as the new version will probably overwrite anything that's there.
The download is here:
https://mendelson.org/Mac OS 9 New.zip (https://mendelson.org/Mac OS 9 New.zip)
Please let me know of any problems.
EDIT: I'm still working on this, because the Options menu is now far too long. But the basic operations are in the current download. I'll replace it with an improved Options menu later on.
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I've made some minor corrections and improvements in the original Mac OS 9 app (link in first post), but nothing major. And I now possibly have a fully-working version that stores the disk images in the user's Library folder instead of in the app itself, making it possible to update the app without disturbing the disk images. Same download link:
https://mendelson.org/Mac OS 9 New.zip (https://mendelson.org/Mac OS 9 New.zip)
This removes one feature from the original version - you can't drag a disk image into the app and use it to replace the built-in image as the boot disk. You can still, however, boot once from a different disk image and use it to copy or install anything you need on the built-in image.
One minor disadvantage of the "new" version (the one that stores the disk image in the User Library) is that isn't fully portable - if you make changes to the disk image, you can't simply copy the app to another machine, but will need to export the disk image on the current machine and import it on the other machine. But this seems a minor inconvenience.
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If we ported the SDL 1.2 version of SheepShaver to run UNDER Mac OS 9.2.2, I'd be all over this. Definitely something to try eventually, although I expect it to be a rather involved process.
Reason being I could access some 9.0.4 apps without leaving my main 9.2.2 host environment. (Especially when we can't boot into Mac OS 9.0.4, such as in the case of the Mac mini G4.)
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Unless anyone finds problems, I've finished the work I plan to do on an alternate version of the Mac OS 9 app for macOS - a new version that keeps the disk images in the user's Library folder so that you can update the app without exporting and importing your disk images. Same download link as in the post two posts above this one.
I've added an option that copies the disk images back into the app so that you can then take the app to aother system. If you've created an additional disk or a user-specific disk, you'll have to back them up and then copy them separately to the new system. I've started building a framework for copying them into the app, but it's probably not worth the effort to complete it.
If this version interests you, please let me know of any problems with it. I'm not sure I want to replace the original self-contained version with this one, and it might make sense to make both available.
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And in the experimental version, the feature that restores a disk image previously exported to the desktop doesn't work yet. So if you need that feature, don't use this experimental version (though expert users will be able to figure out how to export and restore disk images manually).
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And to continue, I think I've fixed the feature in the experimental version that lets you export a disk image to the macOS desktop and then import it again. I haven't tested this thoroughly, but it's at the same download link given a few posts above this one, so feel free to try it.