Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Hardware => Storage => Topic started by: wnlewis on April 15, 2020, 04:47:56 PM
-
The price of Samsung EVO 840 SSD's is going up.
Will an 860 work with OS 9.2.2?
Thanks.
-
...and hit enter
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5433.0;attach=7421;image)
-
Sure, he could have used the search. But I think a comprehensive list of what SSDs work and what not would be really neat. Might eliminate future "will this SSD work?" threads. Searching for OS9 compatible SSDs isn't easy.
-
because most people ask things like "will it work?", it is not possible to give a satisfying answer and the search doesnt always bring up useful readings either.
you would have to ask back "SATA or m.2 or nvme? which controller board? do you want to connect via SATA or IDE? does your computer support 48 bit adressing or not? cable select or master/slave? do you plan to use more than one? how big will it be? if you use an SATA adapter, which one? do you need to boot OS9 or OSX from it or dont you need to boot from it at all?..."
see my other reply to the general problem, http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5435.0.html
not even google is able to tell you how to identify if a QS 2002 dual 1.0 by its serialnumber if it is the version with or without 48 bit ATA controller.
even worse for monitors vs GPUs.
-
Interesting perhaps to note that neither of my two esteemed colleagues above have actually answered the question about whether or not the EVO 860 will work with OS 9. And sure, while my initial response might have seemed a bit brusque… actually performing that search as suggested would have yielded the answer from: (1). (S)ATAman / macStuff and (2). torvan. From the second and third posts noted - in that search’s results.
Reminds me a bit of this quote:
“Writing about music is like dancing about architecture”. ;)
-
because you cant answer it with yes or no. :) 1. because the question was incomplete and 2. because nobody of us knows everything about it anyway.
it might work for someones applications or not. it will for sure work with a native mac-supported PCI SATA card, used as storage disk, up to 2Gb, in either OS. all the rest is unforeseeable.
i´d love a complete buying guide for every possible G4 upgrade myself. including guarantee, so that i can blame someone else if i dont get it to work.
you will find posts here confirming full compatibilty with the 840 and about a firmware issue with the 850 (which doesnt let you boot from it when i remember right?)
-
So, in essence... what you're saying is: "It depends"?
Good answer. 8) I'll use that.
"i´d love a complete buying guide for every possible G4 upgrade
including guarantee, so that i can blame someone else
if i dont get it to work."
(Keep wishing.) "I feel your pain".
- Bill Clinton ???
-
...and hit enter
I probably should have said to start that I did search and didn't seem to find a definitive answer. Maybe I missed it.
-
Sure, he could have used the search. But I think a comprehensive list of what SSDs work and what not would be really neat. Might eliminate future "will this SSD work?" threads. Searching for OS9 compatible SSDs isn't easy.
A comprehensive list would be excellent!
-
Maybe you should try PM-ing members: (S)ATAman or Torvan directly
for further information? They may actually answer your question(s).
Just a thought - until that comprehensive list becomes available.
Not everyone here is a real mean old goat like me. ;)
Best of luck.
-
Interesting perhaps to note that neither of my two esteemed colleagues above have actually answered the question about whether or not the EVO 860 will work with OS 9. And sure, while my initial response might have seemed a bit brusque… actually performing that search as suggested would have yielded the answer from: (1). (S)ATAman / macStuff and (2). torvan. From the second and third posts noted - in that search’s results.
Reminds me a bit of this quote:
“Writing about music is like dancing about architecture”. ;)
I'm not sure the answer was in either of those two posts.
-
because you cant answer it with yes or no. :) 1. because the question was incomplete and 2. because nobody of us knows everything about it anyway.
it might work for someones applications or not. it will for sure work with a native mac-supported PCI SATA card, used as storage disk, up to 2Gb, in either OS. all the rest is unforeseeable.
i´d love a complete buying guide for every possible G4 upgrade myself. including guarantee, so that i can blame someone else if i dont get it to work.
you will find posts here confirming full compatibilty with the 840 and about a firmware issue with the 850 (which doesnt let you boot from it when i remember right?)
How much may I specify without causing everybody's eyes to glaze over and not reply at all? Perhaps a standard set of information that is considered sufficient?
The EVO 860 would be running in a Sawtooth AGP G4 with a Sonnet 1 GHz upgrade processor, 1 Gb of RAM, three conventional Ultra ATA hard drives (two 750 Gb Barracudas and 1 300 Gb Caviar) all running through ATA to SATA Firmtek/Seritek adapters, going to a Firmtek/Seritek PCI SATA card. The new EVO would be going through the PCI card as well.
The motherboard has been upgraded to the second one used in the Sawtooth series, namely having a uni north = 7 capability, which means it can take dual processors.
The computer natively boots from: System 9.2.X, OS 10.0 through OS 10.4.11, and also from the PowerPC versions of 10.5.X. In addition, it can boot and run on the Power PC versions of Linux, MintPPC, Debian, Ubuntu, etc. The 250 Gb EVO 840 that I have, does work under those conditions and has done so flawlessly. It is getting full.
-
Great specifics on your targeted machine! Too bad everyone doesn’t provide such information when asking a question. It would make things so much easier to actually attempt assistance for those of us who haunt here frequently. Yet, is it not evident that we daily, frequent “spooks” don’t have the instant answer that you seek? This is why I suggested that you PM either (S)ATAman or Torvan… and perhaps especially Torvan (because I believe that he is very firmly OS 9 - entrenched) and he would most likely be happy to provide you with your answer… if he can, to your satisfaction.
And, while the answer might not have been readily available in either of those two posts from the search… a “bread-crumb trail” was there. Perhaps too abstract?
PM them and ask. Your initial question has now gone unanswered for three days.
-
Samsung Evo 840 works on Mac Os 9 (tested by myself)
Samsung Evo 850 DON'T works on Mac Os 9 (tested by DieHard)
Samsung Evo 860 "probably" DON'T works on Mac Os 9 (tested is needed)
-
Samsung Evo 840 works on Mac Os 9 (tested by myself)
Samsung Evo 850 DOESN'T works on Mac Os 9 (tested by DieHard)
Samsung Evo 860 "probably" DOESN'T works on Mac Os 9 (tested is needed)
That was what I was thinking from previous conversations I had on this forum some time back before I bought the 840 that I have.
Since I don't have money to burn (to test an EVO 860), I will need to buy another 840 and run with what is known to work.
As I recall from my original setup, I put the drive on my wife's PC, ran the Samsung diagnostics to check the used drive, and then installed it in the G4.
-
yup, mactron, that is the status quo :)
-
The 860 EVO carries over the same functionality as the 850 EVO---it is an auto-sensing SATA drive so it will work in SATA I , SATA II & SATA III adapter cards.
The only "gotcha" is that if your SATA card requires a fixed SATA speed, then no, it will not work.
That is why the 850 and 860 are hit and miss in most PowerMacs and the 840 is the better one to get.
-
yeah that is the main difference between HDs and SSDs, HDs usually can be forced to SATA 150 compatibilty mode and then they will work on any comtroller. but arent there also relatively new SSDs which work with OS9/G4 machines? is there a pattern so that you can tell before if a product will work?
-
The 860 EVO carries over the same functionality as the 850 EVO---it is an auto-sensing SATA drive so it will work in SATA I , SATA II & SATA III adapter cards.
The only "gotcha" is that if your SATA card requires a fixed SATA speed, then no, it will not work.
That is why the 850 and 860 are hit and miss in most PowerMacs and the 840 is the better one to get.
What I should do then, is to buy a small, used EVO 860, and see if it works with the Firmtek card. If it does, then we know that at least the Firmtek option is viable.
I don't think that fixed or variable speed is mentioned in the instructions. I will have to find the paperwork and see.
-
yeah that is the main difference between HDs and SSDs, HDs usually can be forced to SATA 150 compatibilty mode and then they will work on any comtroller. but arent there also relatively new SSDs which work with OS9/G4 machines? is there a pattern so that you can tell before if a product will work?
The Ultra ATA drives I have running, are not running through IDE bus. They are running through Firmtek IDE to SATA adapters and going into the Firmtek SATA card on the PCI bus.
In OS 9.2.2 the computer sees them as SCSI drives. Also, when Linux boots, Linux sees them as SCSI drives.
-
what is the point of connecting IDE disks to an SATA card? just wondering. the main point of SATA is that you can use bigger drives...
-
Per recent PMs with (S)ATAman, he was testing with 840 and 860 prior to COVID-19 and hopes to return to that work after his recovery.
He seems to think that the EVO 860 might also be good for use AFTER a bit more R&D.
“I am using 1TB 840 EVO now, connected to 3114 in G4MDD.
The first goal - as usual - is to update the "X" driver. I do not see, why it wouldn't work in "9".
I want to finish that "X" driver ASAP, I had it working, it's something incorrect there again, looking at that.
The speeds of 3114 in G4 aren't great and it is not a surprise. The reads on a single channel top at 95 MB/Sec, the writes at 62 MB/Sec.
I have the SIM for 3114 and FCode, too - but can't work on everything the same time.
So I would say "yes", I expect it ultimately working.
The speeds of all derivates of SImage / CMD 680 PATA controller won't be great, but that's how the internal works of that controller are and besides, this is the controller with the quickest way to have a complete thing.
The PATA 680, 3112, 3512, 3114 chips are almost the same, the difference is the number of ports, the interface and hot-swap capabilities (PATA, SATA) and not much else. I noticed, some 3114 (SIIG) have Micrel regulator, they should "sleep" on the Quicksilver and D/A.”
Many thanks to (S)ATAman and well wishes from us all for his complete and speedy recovery!
(AND "hats off" to MacTron and to Torvan as well!)
-
In my MDD 2003 (1.25 Ghz, 2GB RAM) model, I have a Crucial MX300 SSD 500GB on the top connector of my Sonnet Tempo PCI SATA adapter which houses OS9. In the second one, an HGST 1 TB spinning SATA drive rescued from a dead 13" MacBook Pro (logic board failed right with the video board) which has Leopard.
On my Quicksilver 2002 Dual 1.0, 2GB RAM model, I have a 1 TB Crucial MX500 and a 500 GB Samsung EVO 840 also on a Sonnet Tempo SATA controller. The first has Leopard, the second OS9.
While I know the SATA "shootouts" put the Firmtek model in first, I got these on a fire sale at $40 each. It was from a going out of business sale 4 years ago from a local Mac store that Apple more or less forced out of business thanks to their own stores.
I have to say the Crucial runs just as nice as the EVO 840 from my usage, but of course I am not a pro audio person, just an average geek enjoying monkeying around with classic hardware.
-
what is the point of connecting IDE disks to an SATA card? just wondering. the main point of SATA is that you can use bigger drives...
The IDE bus on a Sawtooth G4 is slower than the PCI bus. So, in addition to getting past the LBA restrictions of the IDE bus, the PCI bus is faster.
-
what is the point of connecting IDE disks to an SATA card? just wondering. the main point of SATA is that you can use bigger drives...
The IDE bus on a Sawtooth G4 is slower than the PCI bus. So, in addition to getting past the LBA restrictions of the IDE bus, the PCI bus is faster.
It's not really, with a good trick: you have to set the Intel bridge back and forth, but only one card will be usable that way.
I am quite sure, a Marvell 6042 PCI-X card with that trick will be faster, but the 3124.
I am using it with all drivers, including the 3124.
No data as I will be happy to kill the stupid bug I introduced to the 3114 recently.
3114 is simpler because I have the FCode and OS-9 code, too. Just need to update.
The f***ng virus did not help either, sorry. Saying that COVID-19 is a major pain in the ass is an understatement.
-
The IDE bus on a Sawtooth G4 is slower than the PCI bus
yeah see that is the part i missed. i assumed everyone has the same computer as i do (ATA 100). :)
for ATA 66 there are indeed IDE disks which can be faster than the bus.
for me personally it is only about the storage plus in my quicksilver. in an MDD i would use the 4 ATA ports to connect SATA stuff and ignore the 30% speed difference compared to a PCI card.
-
I think Covid-19 has been a pain in the ass for a majority of us :(
-
My 860 EVO 1TB drive works in my 1.42DP PMG4 running unsupported hardware 9.2.2. Used the StarTech adaptor.
Made a 120GB compatible partition on the drive. It already had High Sierra installed from using with my 2010 white MacBook. Installed the custom OS 9.2.2. Haven't really done much with it, except to boot to see if it loads up.
-
I think Covid-19 has been a pain in the ass for a majority of us :(
Дякую тобі - for me it was more, than a pain in the ass - it was a royal pain in the lungs and soon-to-be three months of being knocked down.
So things progress far slower, than anticipated.
The worst part of it besides of the scare and pain is that the code written while ill turned out to be very bad.
My employer told me not to write any code: the time wasted by cleaning it up later is more effort, than the buggy code!
My supervisor in the States was knocked down for three months.
A friend of mine in BY and his wife were knocked down for a shorter period of time - but the entire family, included the parents of his wife became ill and grandpa landed up in the hospital.
So it's not a joke - people can get knocked down for many weeks and their productivity is at best nothing.
Imagine this on a global scale and let's not even talk about fatal cases - it is very devastating.
Continuing the work regardless, I can do my job since probably a week. Today is a SAS day, than turning to SATA again while SAS is tested.
Had weekends 7/24 in last three months, time to catch up.