Mac OS 9 Lives

Mac OS 9 Discussion => Hardware => Topic started by: TGOTR on August 21, 2015, 06:54:52 PM

Title: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on August 21, 2015, 06:54:52 PM
I have an iMac G3 Bondi Blue that won't boot up. It had OS 9.2 installed, but now it won't see the drive. I was trying to boot it today it kept on locking up on the "Welcome" screen, forcing a reboot each time. Now it won't see the drive (question mark folder) nor will it boot from the CD rom drive. I don't even hear either drive spin up. I dunno what's going on with it.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on August 21, 2015, 07:02:58 PM
download the AHT apple hardware test cd + boot to do a diagnostic + report the errors
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on August 22, 2015, 11:06:08 AM
download the AHT apple hardware test cd + boot to do a diagnostic + report the errors

I need one in ISO format that I can burn in Windows. None of my other macs have optical drives.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on August 22, 2015, 11:24:37 AM
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-hardware-test-cds

just rename the .toast file to .iso + burn it
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on August 25, 2015, 02:32:08 PM
I finally got it to boot from a CD, and it's giving me a bus error. Not to mention the screen is garbled. Pics included
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on August 25, 2015, 02:44:54 PM
boot the AHT cd and it will tell u whats wrong with the computer.

i would guess that the cdrom itself may have a problem?
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on August 25, 2015, 03:07:00 PM
boot the AHT cd and it will tell u whats wrong with the computer.

i would guess that the cdrom itself may have a problem?

It wasn't booting. I did find my OS9 CD, and that is what I got. I also found the CDs that came with the machine, and it booted into OS 8.5 just fine. I am installing that now. To be safe, I wiped the HD, pulled it out, connected it to my IDE to USB caddy on my WIN7 machine, and found no issues with the drive.

It's just when I try to go into OS 9 that it gives me guff. Well...no big loss if I can't install OS 9, nothing I do with the machine requires OS 9 anyway.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on August 25, 2015, 03:11:28 PM
this is where some members of the board have different opinions..
i personally think that starting from the imac u have + the g3 B+W that these USB macs have SPECIFIC INSTALL CDS that are tweaked to work properly on these machines..

other members here think that its ok to use any later version.. (ie: using the same 9.2.2 for every machine)

there are a large number of installs that are "Specific" to a certain machine. and its very confusing because they dont really specify that on the labels..  in general i think its best to use the cd that was initially intended for the machine and upgrade using updates if you must. the thought behind that being that apple would have code in the updates to update the mac os rom correctly + patch whatever files specifically for that machine & os combination

in the end we have no definitive answer as to what is right + what is wrong so we can only speculate... and make theories based on whats worked for each of our own personal experiences.

according to everymac (which is not always 100% correct) the bondi blue shipped with mac os 8.1 or 8.5.. http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_ab.html
if u have 8.5 working then GREAT!! be happy ;) u have a workin bondi blue with its original os intact ;)
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on August 25, 2015, 03:18:39 PM
Well it was running OS 9 before. And I tried booting from the same disc that I installed OS9 from before (an orange universal one). I am running another Hard Disk check, just to be sure.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 12, 2015, 08:07:06 PM
After tracking down a NOS IDE hard drive, the CD wouldn't load. I got a spare IDE cable out...nothing, got a new one for a grossly inflated price of $15, nothing. I am going to assume the IDE controller on the Logic Board has given up the ghost.

The CRT is still good, I wonder if there is a project I could do with it.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 12, 2015, 08:46:27 PM
what was the first thing i told u to do.. boot from the diagnostics cd..
if it didnt boot the diagnostics cd.. u are using the wrong diagnostics cd and need to find the correct one

if it installs 8.5 fine.. and has problems installing 9.. something is up..
u might need a firmware update or something
those are quirky old machines.. the first usb mac

how could u assume the logic board is dying when it installed mac os 8.5 fine
remember that machine only supports ATA-3(EIDE) which is older + slower then ATA-4 (ata-33) + ATA-5 (ata-66) so your problems could be something to do with compatibility with the lower ata standard either by your IDE cable or IDE drive


anyway im getting frustrated trying to help u here because u arent making logical sense
u said u tracked down a "NEW OLD STOCK" IDE drive.. u dont specify what size...
then you say the CD wont load.. ?? wtf? does the cd have to do with the IDE drive??? u dont explain what u did .... so.. u are on your own pal.. learn to communicate more logically + effectively in the future if u want help.

go back and re-read your posts here - they make little sense

the orange "universal" os9 cd is for LATER VERSIONS of imacs.. and is NOT for use with the imac that u have.. and would cause strangeness u are experiencing.. we have tons of installers for download on this site.. DO NOT USE any orange os9 install cd thats probably the reason for your problems

u need to use the exact versions of cd discs that were shipped with your imac (version 8.1 for imac233 or version 8.5 for imac233) or you need to use a later universal retail install.. of which i think there was only 9.0 + 9.1, there never was a 9.2 retail cd.. but we have many 9.2 installers here on the site u can download from the public downloads section that should work fine.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 07:47:34 AM
what was the first thing i told u to do.. boot from the diagnostics cd..
if it didnt boot the diagnostics cd.. u are using the wrong diagnostics cd and need to find the correct one

if it installs 8.5 fine.. and has problems installing 9.. something is up..
u might need a firmware update or something
those are quirky old machines.. the first usb mac

how could u assume the logic board is dying when it installed mac os 8.5 fine
remember that machine only supports ATA-3(EIDE) which is older + slower then ATA-4 (ata-33) + ATA-5 (ata-66) so your problems could be something to do with compatibility with the lower ata standard either by your IDE cable or IDE drive


anyway im getting frustrated trying to help u here because u arent making logical sense
u said u tracked down a "NEW OLD STOCK" IDE drive.. u dont specify what size...
then you say the CD wont load.. ?? wtf? does the cd have to do with the IDE drive??? u dont explain what u did .... so.. u are on your own pal.. learn to communicate more logically + effectively in the future if u want help.

go back and re-read your posts here - they make little sense

the orange "universal" os9 cd is for LATER VERSIONS of imacs.. and is NOT for use with the imac that u have.. and would cause strangeness u are experiencing.. we have tons of installers for download on this site.. DO NOT USE any orange os9 install cd thats probably the reason for your problems

u need to use the exact versions of cd discs that were shipped with your imac (version 8.1 for imac233 or version 8.5 for imac233) or you need to use a later universal retail install.. of which i think there was only 9.0 + 9.1, there never was a 9.2 retail cd.. but we have many 9.2 installers here on the site u can download from the public downloads section that should work fine.

I was quick to point out that it installed fine. It started the install fine, but it ended up crashing the machine, and then would not boot any CD again. I ran the HDD through a disk checker, and as I ran the test, it started clicking. So I tracked down a New Old Stock Hard Drive (50GB), and attempted to boot 8.5 again, and nothing. The CD drive would spin up and down, but just sit on the folder screen never finding a thing. I replaced all the IDE/CD drive cabling at great expense to be sure that wasn't an issue.

I did clean the CD drive lens, and it still gave me guff.

Not even the Diagnostics CD would boot.

Since everything runs off that one IDE controller, and everything else is new...and working on other machines...it's a pretty good assumption to say the IDE controller doesn't work anymore.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 07:59:06 AM
from what u have said here it looks like u know very little of macs
did u even try to reset the nvram? pram? did u even try to access
the openfirmware interface?

i dont think u have the knowledge or skills to fix it.
but is it fixable? probably

u need to boot up holding CMD-OPT-O-F
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 08:07:36 AM
from what u have said here it looks like u know very little of macs
did u even try to reset the nvram? pram? did u even try to access
the openfirmware interface?

i dont think u have the knowledge or skills to fix it.
but is it fixable? probably

u need to boot up holding CMD-OPT-O-F

and yes you need both hands for that (cant cross two fingers behind your back)

:)
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 08:16:44 AM
its also possible that the battery inside the imac needs to be replaced

it also could be that the ram has gone bad
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/100SO256168L/
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 10:11:22 AM
I can get it into the Open firmware, the battery is good, and the ram was tested in other machines, and work. I reset the PRAM as well.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 10:16:22 AM
Thats odd can you install anything on it when you start this rig in target disk mode and use another mac to install the os? Or is the disk still missing?

when you turn it on does it chime normal?
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 10:25:08 AM
It's an iMac without Firewire
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 10:27:56 AM
I dont know i prefer desktops and hardly look for anything older.
does it chime like every mac should?
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 10:30:48 AM
Yep it chimes. I am a PC guy but OS9 Macs are pretty useful for things NT based versions of Windows cant do in terms of Win9x compatibility, namely software that was made and released with both Windows and Mac versions on the disc.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 10:33:29 AM
Im not asking about you preference i just said i dont keep up with every model because im only interested in g4's. But the chime is a good indication for problems. You can look that up. There is a sequence to find out whats wrong with it.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 10:44:59 AM
Forget about that sequence. And forget about the fact that you tested the drive in a different machine. Its time to narrow it down. Take the ram out and unplug everything thats not needed. Put replacement ram in.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 11:03:10 AM
I don't have much PC-100 ram. I was lucky to have a laptop that used it (an older IBM Thinkpad), but the ram tested fine.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: MacTron on September 13, 2015, 11:04:24 AM
Place a "Mac Os ROM", "System" and "Finder" files into a HFS  formatted USB drive and boot with this.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 11:05:54 AM
I dont ask to test the ram i try to single out and narrow it down. Or we can just guess around till somebody comes up with the right guess. Do the steps to find out if your board is ok and i mean every part of it.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 11:07:22 AM
Place a "Mac Os ROM", "System" and "Finder" files into a HFS  formatted USB drive and boot with this.

do you expect that old machine to be capable of booting from usb?
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: MacTron on September 13, 2015, 11:11:08 AM
Place a "Mac Os ROM", "System" and "Finder" files into a HFS  formatted USB drive and boot with this.

do you expect that old machine to be capable of booting from usb?
Yes I do.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 11:13:06 AM
No PPC Mac can boot from USB...and even if this one did, it's USB1.1
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 11:13:19 AM
And if it does how does it solve the problem? He still needs to test the rest to make sure the controller is ok.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 11:14:19 AM
No PPC Mac can boot from USB...and even if this one did, it's USB1.1

thats not exactly right but i think thats later builds of g4's that can do that.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 11:27:08 AM
I was not aware of that. None of my G4s will, nor will my G5 tower.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 11:28:30 AM
We still have that imac as a unsolved prob. Are you willing to test any of the things said?
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 11:43:32 AM
I've tested the ram and all that. It stays at the folder icon no matter what. I have thrown in even more IDE hard drives, and nothing. It won't even boot into 8.5.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 11:48:07 AM
Ok last time ... unplug everything thats not needed (including harddrive) and start it, turn it off and start to add one by one.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 11:49:03 AM
That'll be a pain ahha. But give me some time.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 11:50:28 AM
Btw after you unplugged EVERYTHING do a pram reset. My avid wouldnt do shit when it arrived and i ended up taking it all out and reseting the whole machine even the battery was replaced and that bitch still wouldnt do a damn thing so i did it again and got it back to normal.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 11:52:05 AM
I can get it into the Open firmware, the battery is good, and the ram was tested in other machines, and work. I reset the PRAM as well.

unless u tested teh ram in another "bondi blue" exact same model mac, then your test is inconclusive.. the bondi blue was the first generation of imac (identifier imac,1) it requires PC66 SDRAM which is rare.. so if u are using PC100 SDRAM
that could cause you the problem.. you need to use ram that specifically says 66Mhz on it

how many times has a mac failed to boot, and miraculously worked with different ram... many many times
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 11:56:52 AM
u know it would help alot if u could update what the mac is doing now.. are u still getting a bus error liket he image u included above..?

still getting scrabled video?

what exactly does it do when u boot now?
do u see an icon of some sort? does it pop open a different error?

please explain if u want us to effectively help u

mactron suggested booting from a usb drive in an attempt to sidestep + avoid the ide controller to see if that is indeed the problem
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 12:11:08 PM
I'll track down PC-66 ram as I do not have any.

I got it to the Open Firmware screen, with some scrambling. But if I let it boot up as normal, or if I hold the C-key...it does nothing to boot a CD. It has a fresh HDD in it now (50gb), because the old one started clicking when I tested it again.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 12:13:11 PM
I'll track down PC-66 ram as I do not have any.

im just trying to guess what the problem could be... i may not be correct. im just trying to give u ideas to try but the everymac page says pc66 - and i have had similar problems with ram incompatibilities with PC motherboards where the motherboard would not boot with pc100 installed...amd would only boot when i installed pc66 ram... to make it even more confusing -- later on i found that another brand of pc100 worked fine... its a complicated thing.. sometimes ram will work for a bit and then refuse to work.. this is why vendors provided QVL lists of ram that was tested to work properly..

also-- booting from c.. unless u have the proper keyboard that came with it. or a similar mac usb keyboard from 1998/1999 (should have a power button it aswell) it may not work correct for example using a keyboard from a imac g5 or powermac g5 on a g4 will give the same result.. holding c does not work properly. unless its the right keyboard for the mac..

if the powerbutton on the usb keyboard turns the imac on it should work fine (holding c to boot the cd)

also the cd drive may not like the brand of cd-r media u have used.. newer dvd/cdrom drives dont work the same with older cd media or cd rom drives from the 1998 1999 period.. there were changes to the optical media standards... u need to use a good brand "CD-R" such as verbatim and burn the discs on a slow speed for them to work reliably (if u are in fact using burned discs)

u can force a cdboot by booting into open firmware and typing the command i think its : "Cd-boot" or "boot cd" i forget  which
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 12:16:26 PM
I understand. I don't like trying to boot from USB on these PPC machines because I've had nothing but issues, and wasted hours trying.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 12:18:24 PM
I'll track down PC-66 ram as I do not have any.

im just trying to guess what the problem could be... i may not be correct. im just trying to give u ideas to try but the everymac page says pc66 - and i have had similar problems with ram incompatibilities with PC motherboards where the motherboard would not boot with pc100 installed...amd would only boot when i installed pc66 ram... to make it even more confusing -- later on i found that another brand of pc100 worked fine... its a complicated thing.. sometimes ram will work for a bit and then refuse to work.. this is why vendors provided QVL lists of ram that was tested to work properly..

also-- booting from c.. unless u have the proper keyboard that came with it. or a similar mac usb keyboard from 1998/1999 (should have a power button it aswell) it may not work correct for example using a keyboard from a imac g5 or powermac g5 on a g4 will give the same result.. holding c does not work properly. unless its the right keyboard for the mac..

if the powerbutton on the usb keyboard turns the imac on it should work fine.

I've noticed that some macs, if they are on the folder screen with no OS on a HD, when a CD is inserted, it'll boot from the CD without pressing C.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 12:21:24 PM
also remember that this imac has the bug which requires the first partition on the disk having to be under 8gb in size for it to boot.

also the partition type on the hard drive has to be "APM" apple partition map.. if its never been used before its probably in "MBR" partition type unless u have repartitioned it using another mac . i doubt that it would be in "GPT" partition type if its "new old stock" 50gb IDE drive..
so u have to repartition this disk.. the way i would do it is to burn disc 1 from the mac os x panther cds on another machine using a blank CD-R and then be sure to burn it on a slower speed such as 1x, or 4x, or 8x (u can download panther cds here: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-osx-mac-os-10-ppc)

after the disc is burned boot up into mac os x setup, and use disk utility to partition the drive into at least 2 partitions, with the first of the two being under 8gb in size, make it 7gb to be safe. and the second can be any size but the machine will only allow booting from the first partition within the first 8gb of the disk. this is a limitation of the ide controller itself.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: MacTron on September 13, 2015, 12:22:02 PM
I understand. I don't like trying to boot from USB on these PPC machines because I've had nothing but issues, and wasted hours trying.
OK. but, easiest is impossible.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 12:24:52 PM
also remember that this imac has the bug which requires the first partition on the disk having to be under 8gb in size for it to boot.

Maybe I should try that.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 12:28:04 PM
I understand. I don't like trying to boot from USB on these PPC machines because I've had nothing but issues, and wasted hours trying.


yes this can be buggy as hell and booting from usb1.1 is no fun... i personaly wouldnt want to try booting usb on the imac,1 .. which predates even the b+w g3s.. and everyone knows how buggy those b+w g3s are

mactrons suggestion would make more sense if it was a later version of the imac - but this is the very first one, and it wouldnt be so easy
remember its the VERY FIRST USB MAC EVER
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 12:30:14 PM
also remember that this imac has the bug which requires the first partition on the disk having to be under 8gb in size for it to boot.

Maybe I should try that.

if u didnt partition the disk under 8gb in size the last time u installed mac os 8.5 then that is why it stopped working.. either that or the disk itself died.
u could also use mactrons rescue disk to partition the disk using "Drive setup"... "drive setup" should be ablet o partition i think its tricky to do it tho u have to hold option to see the option to do it.. that is.. if "drive setup" can convert a MBR disk to APM... i think it might be able to.

if all else fails u might have to take the drive out and attach it to another mac via your USB-IDE adapter and check to see the partition scheme on the drsive and make sure its Apple partition map.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 01:05:56 PM
Well, now it's not working at all. It bongs, and the red light won't turn green

wait, it just shut off and won't power on again.


It's no use. I am tearing my hair out at this point, and I am ready to shelf the compy
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 01:13:57 PM
Power supply possibly done
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 01:17:49 PM
Power supply possibly done

Which would explain the issues with the CD drive, as it wasn't receiving enough power. Time to shelf the unit. I have an iBook G3 running OS9 as well as an unsupported Powerbook G4 running OS9 as well, so I guess thats how I'll get my fix from now on. My only intel Mac is a mac book on Yosemite, and my other PPC macs run MorphOS or OS9. They all work well.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 01:25:09 PM
How much did you spend for morphos licencse?
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 01:31:23 PM
I only have a full version running on my G5 tower that I fixed up, and that cost me $130 for a license for that. My Mac Mini, and my iBook G4 run the trial version which works for 30 minutes than slows down (noticeably, but not unusable).
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 01:46:50 PM
Yeah i noticed the steep investment on the site. But they said it only runs on g4's and not even all of them. Brings a piece of the amiga back.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 01:50:51 PM
One way to figure if it's a G4 that'll work is if the graphics card is NVidia, it won't work. It's not really all that steep when you factor in the fact that you get free updates for the life of the machine. People who adopted MorphOS in '07 on the old Efika boards have had 7-8 years of free updates.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 01:52:12 PM
ive asked before. whats the interest in morphos?
what software do u run on morphos?

is there any DAW related software that runs on amiga/morphos?
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 02:05:48 PM
Personally, I use MorphOS because it's light weight on the old PPC Hardware (Very Quick Bootup), things that didn't run well in MacOS runs much better (I can run videos in 720p MKV in MorphOS which I couldn't do in OSX Leopard on my Mini). I usually run some 68k apps for productivity like wordsworth,

From what I understand, SoundBankster can be used for some DAW stuff. It is disk-jockey software, it allows mixing, syncing, tone correction, etc.

if you have a knack for programming, MorphOS is always looking for new software, namely stuff to connect it to the outside world really, support for MS office stuff is a big one. Open Office isn't on MorphOS, but someone ported it to OS/2...
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 02:07:58 PM
i was wondering if there was any of hte big name daws available for amiga..
ie: cubase, logic, etc
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
ive asked before. whats the interest in morphos?
what software do u run on morphos?

is there any DAW related software that runs on amiga/morphos?

we talking about nostalgia and history. Nova you might be to young for that. That time was mainly trackers, a midi candidate with a name was bars and pipes for example.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 02:09:47 PM
i was wondering if there was any of hte big name daws available for amiga..
ie: cubase, logic, etc
amiga sound chips aren made for that really. Btw every chip had a female name like paula the soundchip. If you look at the specs you see the limits.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 02:28:42 PM
we talking about nostalgia and history. Nova you might be to young for that. That time was mainly trackers, a midi candidate with a name was bars and pipes for example.

i was young at the time but i was a computer user.. i was using pc's before windows 2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2.0 when i was just 7 years old i got my first AT computer (1984) i had a vic-20 + commodore 64, TRS-80..

tbh i wanted an amiga + atari but my dad never bought those for me unfortunately otherwise i would know all about them aswell ;0

similarly i never had a macintosh of my own as they were quite expensive.. my first mac was a performa 6400 in 1997 or so.
but i didnt use it for audio, i was into photoshop + collecting typefaces.. Adobe Type Manager etc
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/specs/mac_performa_6400_180.html
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: IIO on September 13, 2015, 02:36:02 PM
if a harddrive does not spin, then either the harddrive or the controller ist broken. theoretically it could also be the powering of the HD, but that bus error screen tells us something else.

however there is no reason to fiddle with settings and stuff IMO.

put the drive into a USB case and see if it is the problem.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: devils_advisor on September 13, 2015, 02:42:06 PM
if a harddrive does not spin, then either the harddrive or the controller ist broken. theoretically it could also be the powering of the HD, but that bus error screen tells us something else.

however there is no reason to fiddle with settings and stuff IMO.

put the drive into a USB case and see if it is the problem.
you are too late as usual but we blame it on the timezone. I think the power supply is gone. Wont even fire up. No we killing time with good old paula and protracker.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: IIO on September 13, 2015, 02:53:39 PM
No PPC Mac can boot from USB...and even if this one did, it's USB1.1

thats not exactly right but i think thats later builds of g4's that can do that.

most people do not format their sticks to HFS, so they cant boot a mac from it. :)
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 02:54:32 PM
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/304622
Quote
Bus and address errors occur when a segment of memory is inaccessible

(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2708.0;attach=2920;image)
http://www.macwizard.com/errors.html
Quote
ID=01 Bus Error
This means the computer tried to access memory that doesn't exist. You can get this error on almost any Macintosh. If one of these computers tried to access one or more bytes beyond the total number of bytes in RAM, you see a bus error. You should never see this error on a Macintosh Plus or SE, because address references that are out of bounds "roll over". This means if one of these computers tries to access one byte beyond the total bytes in RAM, it actually accesses the first byte in memory. If you see this error on a Macintosh Plus or SE, it's reporting the wrong error or having hardware problems.

this error is most likely incompatible ram, corrupt ram, incorrectly inserted RAM, dirty contacts on the RAM etc etc etc
if u want to fix it.. fix your ram...
read above ^^ and think logically.. and u will solve the problem
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 03:01:18 PM
personally i think this error is caused either by bad ram, or using an innappropriate version of mac os install..

this is the same type of error that i got on my sawtooth when trying to install mac os v9.04 that was intended for the mystic/gigabit logic boards... ie: using a custom specific build of mac os on the wrong hardware.. using a restore/install disc that came with a different mac  = problems like this.. DONT DO IT you need to either use the exact specific install disc that came with your mac (verify the part number on the disc if need be) or you need to use a verified "universal" install, retail or developer network versions.

YOU CANT JUST USE ANY INSTALLER THAT CAME WITH ANOTHER MAC.. even if that other mac is an "IMAC", later version.. or u will have unexplained problems like this.

what i would do:
leave the mac alone for a bit u have obviously made the bug happen (from not having the hd partitioned correctly when using a hd bigger then 8gb with this mac) its from 1998 the hd it came with was under 8gb it was never intended to have a larger disk then 8gb.. even tho it will see a disk up to 120gb.. leave it be for a day or 2 . unplugged from the wall and it should power up the next time u try it.

check the ram, blow on the ram, wipe the connections on the ram to clean it, blow air into the memory sockets, reseat the ram TRY DIFFERENT RAM CHIPS IF U HAVE SOME, PC66 SDRAM WILL GIVE U A BETTER CHANCE OF SUCCESS OVER PC100 SDRAM.. PC100 should clock down + work but SOME BRAND/TYPES MAY NOT WORK PROPERLY + CAUSE PROBLEMS

install with the proper install or restore disks for the bondi blue imac..
either mac os 8.1, or 8.5 (to ensure the proper mac os rom file gets installed for the bondi blue imac 233mhz)

make sure u partition the hard drive into 2 or more partitions with the first partition being under 8gb OR USE A HARD DRIVE SMALLER THEN 8GB

after everything is working u can update to mac os 9.0 with a retail 9.0 cd and then to 9.1 and then to 9.2

Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: IIO on September 13, 2015, 03:02:59 PM

Quote
you are too late as usual but we blame it on the timezone.

in my timezone there is always weekend, it´s funny isn´t it?
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 03:12:30 PM
if all else fails REACH OUT TO OTHER USERS WHO HAVE HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS WITH THEIR BONDI BLUE IMAC

there have been many people posting here with the same machine
it is a wierd problematic imac moreso then any of the others..
u should EXPECT WIERD PROBLEMS and not be so EASILY DISCOURAGED
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 03:17:29 PM
u would have done better to buy a compact flash 8gb in size and use this with an IDE adapter on this machine... or to buy an 8gb Disk-on-module

along with some PC-66 SDRAM

no clue why u would buy an old 50gb IDE drive.. IDE drives were NOT GOOD back in the day.. often slow.. and the biggest contributing factor into old computers Sucking badly!!


Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 04:20:46 PM
u would have done better to buy a compact flash 8gb in size and use this with an IDE adapter on this machine... or to buy an 8gb Disk-on-module

along with some PC-66 SDRAM

no clue why u would buy an old 50gb IDE drive.. IDE drives were NOT GOOD back in the day.. often slow.. and the biggest contributing factor into old computers Sucking badly!!

I have done that in my amiga 1200, but some of those adapters are bootable on some systems, and not on others. I have a couple full width IDE to SD card adapters, maybe I'll give that a go.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 05:59:27 PM
as long as u use 8gb media or lower + the adapter works u should be 100% good with that ide controller

if 1 byte is past the 8gb mark it will give u all kinds of wierd shit
see these threads:
http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/bondi-blue-imac-internal-hd-size-limit.63418/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5831973?tstart=0

http://www.ehmac.ca/mac-iphone-ipad-ipod-help-troubleshooting/11286-bondi-blue-imac-maximum-hd.html

Quote
One thing you should you know is that your system folder has to be in the first 8 gig's of your HD or the iMac won't find it. For example I have OS 8.6 on a 500mb partition, OS 9 on a 2GB and OS X on a 5GB partition and then a Documents partition for the rest of the 20GB.

see all bootable installations have to be in the first 8gb of the hard drive ^^
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 06:24:01 PM
It really is a crap shoot if the thing is bootable. Going through my SD card drawer, I found a 32gig class 10 card I was using with my Raspberry Pi before I got a B+. I'll wait to post any more. Got a 12hr a day week comming...not gonna wana tear anything apart.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 13, 2015, 06:25:08 PM
It really is a crap shoot if the thing is bootable. One I have booted well on my 486 DOS machine, but not on my dell winxp machine I was using as a file server.

 Going through my SD card drawer, I found a 32gig class 10 card I was using with my Raspberry Pi before I got a B+. I'll wait to post any more. Got a 12hr a day week comming...not gonna wana tear anything apart.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 13, 2015, 07:42:51 PM
It really is a crap shoot if the thing is bootable. Going through my SD card drawer, I found a 32gig class 10 card I was using with my Raspberry Pi before I got a B+. I'll wait to post any more. Got a 12hr a day week comming...not gonna wana tear anything apart.

u dont have to do that.. its optional.. the 50GB IDE drive u got should work aswell..
i can almost guarantee your problems are related to bad ram
either u have incompatible ram, or an incompatible combination of ram with different timings, or u have an incompatible combination of ram manufacturers/chip configuration or u have 1 bad/corrupt piece that has just gone bad with the passing of time somehow (it happens)

are u using more then one ram chip int he computer?
are u using 2 different unmatched ram chips together?

if u have more then 1 ram chip installed.. take all of them out.. make sure the contacts dont have any crap on them and reinstall only 1 ram chip.. to rule out the possibility of an incompatibility... and try to boot up then

think about it.. whats more likely.. the ram is bad. or the IDE Controller + logic board (which havent been touched.. ) has just magically gone bad.. everything the computer does goes thru the ram.. it cant boot without the ram... Duhhh the error indicated a memory error
clearly u have a memory problem to the point where the machine cannot reliably startup
as is the case WITH EVERY TYPE OF COMPUTER WITH A MEMORY PROBLEM be it PC or MAC or what have you

u could have a bad slot aswell where someone has physically bent a pin on the memory slot itself so you should experiment with differnt ram peices in different slots.. leaving one or the other slot vacant.. and u will find the problem!
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 14, 2015, 02:54:55 AM
The reason I don't think the ram is as much of an issue as you are making it out to be is because...when the machine turns on, it'll often POST which doesn't happen when there is no ram.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 14, 2015, 03:46:48 AM
its ok.. do what u want!! shelf it.

peace im done
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: DieHard on September 14, 2015, 12:49:38 PM
Quote
The reason I don't think the ram is as much of an issue as you are making it out to be is because...when the machine turns on, it'll often POST which doesn't happen when there is no ram.

Well, I was kinda sitting this one out, but bad RAM will often post. 

A Mac with no RAM behaves differently than a Mac with Bad RAM or a BAD RAM socket.

So Firstly, I have attached the original Service Manual with diagnostic procedures and the breakdown procedures.  Your lines on the CRT can usually be fixed by adjusting the Pots on the CRT, there are a few, so research which are Voltage, sync, etc.  and be careful, don't get a shock by poking around in the CRT, The pots are plastic and you should use a plastic screwdriver tip to adjust

Secondly, with this machine, try to use PC66 RAM, PC100 may clock down, but may give issues... definitely don't use PC133; also, try to use low density modules (lot's of chips and usually double sided).

Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 14, 2015, 01:03:38 PM
the reason i say the ram is because of personal experience.. when things get wierd.
u think the ram is ok .. and try everything else EXCEPT then i changed the ram and the problems just magically dissappeared..

like i said i had an ABIT BE6 slot1 pc motherboard that was the same way.. it always worked fine with PC66 ram, but using PC100 ram it would "work" but cause problems... strange errors all the time.. with no explanation.. so i realized that it needed PC66 ram.. and the problems stopped

but then i also realized that CERTAIN PC100 chips worked.. when used singularly.. but not in pairs
theres so many wierd things that can happen with ram.. and combinations of ram..
trust me RAM is often disregarded but its a very important part of computing like i said everything that happens goes thru the ram.. if u got the "BUS ERROR" the definition of that error is one of the memory controller not being able to properly access an address inside the rams capacity which is a ram error..
the ram might not be *BAD* it might work in another computer just fine.. but for some reason it doesnt like it in that machine.. in whatever combination of chips that is installed..
like i said before TRY booting with only a singular ram chip and keep changin the chips (and the sockets) untill u find a single chip that works + restores the machine to provide stability + reliable results

how many times do we have to say this before u give it a proper go TGOtR??


Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 14, 2015, 02:40:02 PM
1) I will wait a few days before I try to turn it on again
2) I don't have PC-66 ram on hand. I'll have to track some down online.

If the ram is the issue, I'll be happy, then I'll try a IDE to SD card adapter I have.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 14, 2015, 02:44:23 PM
u dont HAVE to have pc66 ram..
this is what ive been trying to tell u.. u can try switching in + out different peices of pc100 in the meantime in an attempt to find a single ram chip that produces stability on the unit

some ram clocks down properly
some can be problematic
its trial + error
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 14, 2015, 04:34:07 PM
I don't have ram of this age sitting around. The ram I pulled out of the G3 I threw out when I got it because it was crusty and had some rust. I have older ram and DDR and up. Not much of anything from the turn of the century.

I do have the machine in pieces now, I am getting ready to look at the PSU for bulging or blown caps.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 14, 2015, 05:08:29 PM
I don't have ram of this age sitting around. The ram I pulled out of the G3 I threw out when I got it because it was crusty and had some rust.

and u just mention this now.. LOL
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 14, 2015, 05:20:18 PM
I don't have ram of this age sitting around. The ram I pulled out of the G3 I threw out when I got it because it was crusty and had some rust.

and u just mention this now.. LOL

Didn't think it was necessary. I am looking for ram, PC-66 to be safe.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 14, 2015, 06:36:28 PM
if u are to buy/pay for it.. it should be very cheap or almost free
http://www.amazon.ca/128MB-Memory-Apple-iMac-PC66/dp/B00978FNOO

http://www.upgradeable.com/apple/imac-233mhz--bondi-blue-.html

accordng to everymac:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_ab.html

Quote
RAM Type:   PC66 SDRAM   Min. RAM Speed:   10 ns
Details:   Uses 144-pin PC66 SO-DIMM memory modules.

also everymac says that the "official apple supported" ram max is 128mb but despite that it can be upgraded to 512mb ram
(see this page: http://www.everymac.com/actual-maximum-mac-ram/actual-maximum-imac-ram-capacity.html)

it says it has 2 ram slots so u need 2 x 256MB pieces

click to search ebay for pc66 10ns ram 144pin (http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=PC66+10ns+144pin+256mb&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XPC66+10ns+144pin+%282+x256mb%2C+256mb%29.TRS0&_nkw=PC66+10ns+144pin+%282+x256mb%2C+256mb%29&_sacat=0)

ouch they want about 50 $ with shipping
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/512MB-2X256MB-MEMORY-32X64-144-PIN-PC66-10NS-3-3V-NON-ECC-SDRAM-RAM-DIMM-/160909164635?hash=item2576ef005b

forget that!!

u can find a whole new imac g3 for 50$ on ebay

Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 14, 2015, 07:02:02 PM
The ebay auction you linked is $18, but I'll shop around. There is a computer store south of the state line I can look at.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 14, 2015, 08:05:03 PM
yeah but its 20$ shipping + tax = 50$ forget that
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 14, 2015, 08:07:19 PM
you would be better off buying a new imac that has firewire
or even an ibook g3 instead they are cheap as hell and portable + Easy to deal with

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-iBook-A1005-12-1-Laptop-0-8GHz-Power-PC-G3-128MB-PC-100-31GB-/131594937693?hash=item1ea3ab655d

heres one for 35$

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H1.Xibook+g3+%28900%2C+800%2C+700%2C+600%29.TRS5&_nkw=ibook+g3+%28900%2C+800%2C+700%2C+600%29&_sacat=0

they also come with the ram u need inside them;)
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: TGOTR on September 15, 2015, 02:08:12 AM
I think it's because it's because I live state side, and you're Canadian. It says free shipping for me on the ram. Either option is worth looking into.
Title: Re: iMac G3 won't boot
Post by: supernova777 on September 18, 2015, 10:33:06 PM
if anyone else is looking for ide drives
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-4-New-Hitachi-DeskStar-250GB-ATA-IDE-133-40-Pin-7200-RPM-HardDrive-0A35390-/131292234162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e91a081b2
heres a good deal
but u gotta buy 4 at a time
90$ = 22 bucks per 250gb ide drive