Mac OS 9 Lives

Digital Audio Workstation & MIDI => Audio & MIDI Hardware => Topic started by: devils_advisor on May 03, 2015, 01:32:49 PM

Title: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 03, 2015, 01:32:49 PM: Hey

im trying to get a odd setup working and the manual isnt of much help. i try to use that mixer as stand alone combined with my avid and the only reason for that is because of the mic and my 8 channel (888 audio i/o box) the 2 channel version got a dedicated mic hookup but mine not and the manual tells you to use a pre amp or mixer for that. the problem is if you have seen a 888 backside you know what kind of ports you got and the only ones i could use right now is the s/pdif ports. i can make the output work via mixer and hear the timeline but i cant get a level from the mic to the coax s/pdif ports into the 888 and i dont know why. the setings for the channel 5/6 have been changed to digital and s/pdif but no dice. and yes i dont have any xlr cable fo input right now available. if anybody knows how to route the signal into the 888 via s/pdif please explain. even if i have to start a second machine and run protools to get that accomplished im willing to work with it.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 03, 2015, 07:03:52 PM: nobody ?
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on May 03, 2015, 07:20:47 PM: Quote from: devils_advisor on May 03, 2015, 01:32:49 PM
i can make the output work via mixer and hear the timeline but i cant get a level from the mic to the coax s/pdif ports into the 888 and i dont know why. the setings for the channel 5/6 have been changed to digital and s/pdif but no dice. and yes i dont have any xlr cable fo input right now available. if anybody knows how to route the signal into the 888 via s/pdif please explain. even if i have to start a second machine and run protools to get that accomplished im willing to work with it.

I have no experience with 002 but racks.

I would use 1 machine (a 001 w/G3 350 can) that run with a PT session. You make 1 Stereo AUX that run ANY input (Analog/ADAT/SPDIF) to the SPDIF Out. You should do the same with a 002, just NOT IN STANDALONE. I think 002 standalone is limited as a 8 in mixer with 2 outputs, but you should really research a little bit on the standalone mode.

Do 888 has AES/EBU inputs?

There should exist SPDIF to AES/EBU converters. There is a myth about it just been a RCA to XLR cable for short distances... ;D But maybe someone is more experienced with AES/EBU than me to bust that myth.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: chokobo on May 03, 2015, 10:32:37 PM: The 888 has both AES, and SPDIF. You can make a cable to go from an XLR connector to RCA. I did it years ago to interface a couple of things were one of them only had AES, and the other only had SPDIF. 8)

I don't remember the pin out. ???

(http://www.stillkickinmusic.com/myauctionsoct2014/888-22215-back.jpg)

Oh here you go. -afro-

(https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/geekslutz-forum/343595d1367787741-need-help-aes-xlr-balanced-aes-rca-unbalanced-xlr_rca_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: chokobo on May 03, 2015, 10:58:16 PM: heh, it would help if I read the first post first. ;P

I don't really understand what you are trying to do, but it sounds like you have a mic, that you want to plug into the 888, and then go digitally out the 888's SPDIF to another box, is that correct?

The analogue inputs on the 888 are balanced line level. If you want to plug a mic into them you should employ a mic pre-amp (most mixers have mic pre's too so you could use one of those before the 888). Most of the USB audio interface boxes these days have mic pre's that look exactly like the connectors on the 888, but they are different levels--just the same connector. The mic pre's in the lower priced USB audio boxes pretty much suck/are okay to the same degree because they all use the same mic pre chip. I don't remember it's name. Consider it insider information. :P

Oh look an old post on Slutz that says pretty much the same thing:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/542009-audio-interfaces-their-ad-da-chips-listed.html

Now once your mic is connected to the 888 properly you'll need to set up the software. You are probably running this with some software right? Via the software you can go to the hardware setup, and select to send out the SPDIF ports. It will probably look something like this:

(http://www.protoolsproduction.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/HD-Interface-Hardware-Setup.jpg)

You'll also have to have your software route from the 888 inputs to the SPDIF outputs--do this via the software's mixer interface.

Then you'll have the audio going from your mic-->mic pre-box that you don't have yet-->888 input-->SPDIF out.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: chokobo on May 03, 2015, 11:03:45 PM: Okay lets try this again! ::)

Maybe what you want to do is going into the mic pre on the 002, out the 002 and into the 888?

Now that actually makes some sense. To do this it is very much like my previous post, where the 002 is playing the role of the mixer/mic pre. The things is once you are in the digital land you pretty much want to stay there. So take the SPFID output of the 002, and go into the SPDIF input on the 888.

(http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/750-Digi002_img_rear.jpg)
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 04, 2015, 04:49:03 AM: thats what i did but i dont see any level's and test recording doesnt show anything but a flatline
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 04, 2015, 06:36:55 AM: are u sure u are using an actual spdif cable (75ohm) and not just a normal rca cable?

also, i think i read that the 888 requires word clock and cannot clock to only spdif (but im not sure) as we can see the digi 002 console does not have word clock out or in.

** wait i remember that it by default looks for a clock signal on input 1/2 of the AES inputs -- also the samplerate must be adjusted by a physical jumper inside the unit to switch from 44.1 to 48khz or vice versa - perhaps u have a samplerate mismatch between the digi 002 + 888

honestly tho i think u need to change your approach. and just use the digi 002 as your interface. these two items are not meant to work together in this way. the 002 is meant to be the central hub.

we have added the pro tools le 5.3.2 download....
i can only guess u want to use TDM plugins or something..
but if u dont have the cables required to wire it up then why bother?
either get the cables or dont use it? :D

anyway.. check the guide
http://akarchive.digidesign.com/support/docs/888_24_IO_Guide.pdf
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 04, 2015, 06:38:29 AM: i tested with a normal rca and a m16dx mixer if the digital out works from the 888 to the m16 and i get sound with that cable
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 04, 2015, 06:56:02 AM: (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2518.0;attach=2481;image)

theres your answer.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 04, 2015, 06:58:19 AM: you need to check the digi 002 consoles sp/dif samplerate setting
if its 44.1 or 48khz
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 04, 2015, 07:03:41 AM: from the digi 002 guide: (http://akarchive.digidesign.com/support/docs/Getting_Started_with_002.pdf)

here its shown that the digi 002 supports a number of samplerates that the 888 does not support...which shows that if u were going the other way from the 888 to the 002 u would have little difficulties.
but going this way (from 002 to 888) u will have to ensure that its set to particular compatible settings.. both in software + with the jumpers.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 04, 2015, 07:15:49 AM: both devices show me the samplerate. dont forget i use the 888 with a avid media composer and the capture settings are visible to me. the digi shows the samplerate as well above the faders right side. the reason why i need this combo is to document the machines/setup's i have here. pretty much the mic is the only thing i want in this setup to have a voiceover.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: mrhappy on May 04, 2015, 08:16:47 AM: Along with the 'Hardware setup' in PT you also need to define a 'Path' in the I/O setup... not sure about media composer or if you need to do something like that??
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 04, 2015, 08:26:53 AM: right now im trying to use it as stand alone. if that fails i use a second machine and try it with protools
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 04, 2015, 08:30:15 AM: heres an idea why not try to test S/PDIF between the 888 + another simpler device..
if that works then its almost certain to be related to the 002's spdif out being in a format that the 888 cannot accept (samplerate/wordclock mismatch? professional vs consumer)

logically the only possibilities i see are:

A) the cable
B) the format of S/PDIF being the same on both output (device 1) & input (device 2)
C) i/o routing settings within the Digi 002
D:) i/o routing settings within the 888

is there another possible cause?
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 04, 2015, 08:41:35 AM: Quote from: chrisNova777 on May 04, 2015, 08:30:15 AM
heres an idea why not try to test S/PDIF between the 888 + another simpler device..
if that works then its almost certain to be related to the 002's spdif out being in a format that the 888 cannot accept (samplerate/wordclock mismatch? professional vs consumer)

logically the only possibilities i see are:

A) the cable
B) the format of S/PDIF being the same on both output (device 1) & input (device 2) < as far as i can tell they synch visually. i unplugged the coax and it lost the synch just to test it
C) i/o routing settings within the Digi 002 < is set to channel 5/6 coax s/pdif
D:) i/o routing settings within the 888 < in media composer you can choose analog/aes/ s/pdif

is there another possible cause?
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: chokobo on May 04, 2015, 11:01:36 PM: Damn I go get something approaching sleep, and you cats write a novelette! :D

Word Clock is simply to reduce jitter, (jitter is real I tell you!), but great find on the jumper. I had completely forgotten about that one! There's just too much!!!

SPDIF ports are notorious for blowing out. Always (I know I've done it myself) power down at least one if not both sides when connecting SPDIF ports. A decent grade audio cable should be fine for SPDIF. Maybe not the cheapy consumer radio stuff, but I think I've even used those in the past. ::)

The code from SPDIF will be the same, it's also the same with AES (for all intents and purposes).

Do you have another box with which you can test? I always like to create a test positive when things are being weird. But yeah you gotta get all the ducks lined up. You have to have the correct sample rate, the right ins to outs, the software setup in multiple places, etc.

Did you tell us what software you are using yet? Like the app, version number, associated apps (like DAE). I looked, but didn't catch it. Those things do matter. :P

(http://www.employerlawreport.com/files/2013/11/Ducks-in-a-Row.jpg)
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 05, 2015, 08:20:48 AM: ok from start. im using avid media composer with the 888 and this one doesnt have the dedicated mic plug so they recommend a external pre amp or mixer. the only thing if you look at the back of a 888 you know what's possible. so the only option left for me is go with the s/pdif from the 002 into the 888 and try to get the mic useable. right now the 002 is standalone until i know for sure i cant get nowhere then im willing to try it combined with a second machine and protools to relay the signals.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: chokobo on May 06, 2015, 05:19:22 AM: Why do you need to use the 888? Just bring it in with the 002.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 06, 2015, 05:40:51 AM: :D its a meridien based media composer
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: chokobo on May 06, 2015, 06:01:28 AM: Got it.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: mrhappy on May 06, 2015, 07:18:51 AM: Try using input 1-2 for s/pdif... I think the others default to AES on 888.

The 888/24 I/O can only synchronize to and receive word clock lock on channels 1–2 of its digital inputs
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 06, 2015, 07:26:46 AM: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digidesign-Avid-888-Audio-I-O-MC-AVID-Audio-Interface-MH070-AV-/391133419434?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b115e57aa

this is what mine looks like
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 06, 2015, 07:55:32 AM: Quote from: mrhappy on May 06, 2015, 07:18:51 AM
Try using input 1-2 for s/pdif... I think the others default to AES on 888.

The 888/24 I/O can only synchronize to and receive word clock lock on channels 1–2 of its digital inputs

i think mrhappy is right here.. i read something along those lines aswell..
it has to be on channels 1-2 for spdif...
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 06, 2015, 07:59:05 AM: you can only choose what to use and not where to route it. if that works then how can i get this done
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: mrhappy on May 06, 2015, 09:04:41 AM: There's a lot of references to using channels 1-2.

http://akarchive.digidesign.com/support/docs/888_24_IO_Guide.pdf

check out this manual ✽ The 888/24 I/O defaults to listening to a digital word clock signal on channels 1–2 of its AES/EBU digital input ports. To use a S/PDIF device as your source of word clock, you must reset this default by opening the 888/24 I/O and moving an internal jumper switch.

If you wish to use a S/PDIF device as your source of word clock, you must reset this default by opening the 888/24 I/O and moving an in- ternal jumper switch so that channels 1-2 of its S/PDIF digital input ports are used in- stead.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 06, 2015, 09:10:12 AM: Quote from: mrhappy on May 06, 2015, 09:04:41 AM
There's a lot of references to using channels 1-2.

http://akarchive.digidesign.com/support/docs/888_24_IO_Guide.pdf

check out this manual ✽ The 888/24 I/O defaults to listening to a digital word clock signal on channels 1–2 of its AES/EBU digital input ports. To use a S/PDIF device as your source of word clock, you must reset this default by opening the 888/24 I/O and moving an internal jumper switch.

If you wish to use a S/PDIF device as your source of word clock, you must reset this default by opening the 888/24 I/O and moving an in- ternal jumper switch so that channels 1-2 of its S/PDIF digital input ports are used in- stead.

The 888/24 I/O <--- what does the 24 stand for ? im not sure if the one i have is like the protools rig 888's
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: mrhappy on May 06, 2015, 09:45:45 AM: the '24' stands for 24 bit analog conversion. I'm pretty sure that the one you have is the same guts as the black 888 only with shorter meters. I also believe that the digital connections, even on the 16/18 bit versions of the 888, pass 24bit through the digital I/O.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 06, 2015, 10:08:58 AM: i think i get me a couple xlr to 1/4 and try it this way
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 06, 2015, 11:41:00 AM: Quote from: devils_advisor on May 06, 2015, 10:08:58 AM
i think i get me a couple xlr to 1/4 and try it this way

if u are talking about converting AES to S/PDIF with a cable
this is not a good idea at all... and can damage the unit irreversibly

it even says "1-2 Format" on the front of the fucking unit man..
S/PDIF or AES
u cant use channels 5-6 for digital s/pdif

u need to set up channels 1/2 to receive S/PDIF and it will show "digital" led lit up beneath channels 1/2 on the meters
aswell it should show "sync mode" slave & digital maybe?
make sure to change the digi002's s/pdif format to be "Consumer" (44.1/48khz)
and use a proper S/PDIF 75Ohm Cable

u should have the digi 002 powered on and already broadcasting S/PDIF at 48khz before u turn on the 888 .. if u have switched it to default by changing the jumper inside to S/PDIF instead of AES it should lock to it right after being turned on when it detects a valid digital signal + clock
on the s/pdif input

this is what the jumper is for.. to tell it to look to s/pdif instead of AES
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 06, 2015, 11:50:36 AM: Quote from: chrisNova777 on May 06, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
it even says "1-2 Format" on the front of the fucking unit man.. <-------------- im getting tired of this either you talk normal to me or not at all

the 5/6 channel is the 002 read the manual in case you ever get your hands on a 002 you will know what im talking about
btw remember that ebay auction <------ i jumped in the last second and got it. its sitting here right next to me 8) ;D
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 06, 2015, 12:02:39 PM: congrats to you on your purchase.. i didnt want to buy it when i can easily buy one locally and pay zero shipping - i was only trying to get the software to make it possible for others to use it with mac os 9.. but the auction seller "onecoolauctionguy" was very true to his name and gave me a copy of the cd for nothing!!! if u helped him to sell his unit.. then many thanks to u :D
8)

now all u need to do is learn how to use it ;) and you are set!

i have read the manual.. as u can see above i even screengrabbed things from the manual.. the digi 002 has professional + consumer level settings for spdif.. u are probably having a mismatch of samplerate.. u need to force the digi 002 to be at the same level (44.1/48k)

if u are having a problem routing the mic pre signal to the digital out..
why not just use a 1/4" cable to connect the output of whichever mic pre channel to the input of whatever channels are being set to output via spdif out of the digi 002

(http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/750-Digi002R_img_outputs.jpg)

ok my mistake - t says line/inst .. not line out... the pic i was looking at was poor resolution
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: devils_advisor on May 06, 2015, 12:07:09 PM: yeah looks like i just waste my time. i figure it out myself
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 06, 2015, 12:14:11 PM: (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/music-computers/34907d1178197207-connecting-mackie-800r-digi-002r-via-s-pdif-750-digi002r_img_outputs2.jpg)
ok there are 1/4" outputs from the mic pre over the left ...
but not for 1 / 2 ? so maybe u have to use mic pre 3 or 4
and route the output of 3 or 4 to the input of 5/6 which will
then get put to the s/pdif ?? it all depends on how it functions
in standalone mode re: routing, but i think for it to work in standalone
u have to have the firewire cable disconnected otherwise it will want u to have
a different computer to adjust the routing with software

ok there is 1/2 outputs.. right there it says "main 1/2"

so yea the suggestion i had to make was to route the output from the mic pre directly to the input of whatever channel is set to go to the s/pdif .
trial + error .. maybe this is not how this unit works.. like u have had fun in pointing out- i have not had 'my hands on a digi 002' but i think that what u are trying to do should be possible to accomplish *somehow* so giving up would not be an optiion for me!
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: mrhappy on May 06, 2015, 03:06:50 PM: S/PDIF Outputs
In Stand-alone mode, the S/PDIF outputs on the back panel of Digi 002 mirror outputs 1–2 at all times. If RCA is chosen in the S/PDIF prefer- ences, only the RCA S/PDIF connector is active.

To put Digi 002 in Stand-alone mode:
1 Press the Standalone switch on the right-hand side of the Digi 002 top panel. Digi 002 displays “Enter Standalone mode? Yes/No.”
2 Press the flashing Channel Select switch under “Yes” to enter Stand-alone mode. Press the switch under “No” to remain in the previous state.

in Stand-alone mode, all eight In- put channels, the Delay return, and the Reverb return are summed to outputs 1–2, which are routed to the Main Outputs, Alt Main Outputs, and the S/PDIF outputs on the back panel of Digi 002.
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: mrhappy on May 06, 2015, 03:25:41 PM: Sooo... it looks like you can put 002 into stand alone mode... select rca s/pdif... plug a mic into 002... send to main out 1-2/ (s/pdif)... run 75ohm rca-rca cable to s/pdif in on 888... select s/pdif in on 888.

As far as clocking goes, I'd probably set 002 clock to internal/master at 44.1... run word clock cable from clock out (on 002) to clock in on 888. the 888 should automatically detect the external clock source and sync to it... may have to set 888 to 44.1).
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: mrhappy on May 06, 2015, 03:27:27 PM: or something like that! ;D
Title: Re: Digi 002 Mixer (not rack version)
Post by: supernova777 on May 06, 2015, 06:00:56 PM: maybe it would help if there was a german version of the manual ::)