Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Mac OS 9, Hacks & Upgrades => Topic started by: Syntho on July 19, 2014, 12:31:11 PM
-
Someday as a fun project I want to get a Powermac 9600 refurbished and brought up to date as much as I can. Some of the gear I'm using had its drivers written for OS9 instead of OS8.6. Would the drivers written for OS9 run on 8.6? I don't think too much changed going from 8.6 to OS9.
-
Anyone? I'd like to get a 9600 or Beige G3 setup going someday.
-
while it is possible to just "upgrade" stuff like carbon lib or networking extension, you will run into problems with all software which is (reasonless) forced to check for 9.0 or 9.2, or which needs something releated to GUI/window management ...
basically all major commercial programs and/or hardware drivers which came out after 1999 "require" OS9+. in addition, some will also require a G4.
-
while it is possible to just "upgrade" stuff like carbon lib or networking extension, you will run into problems with all software which is (reasonless) forced to check for 9.0 or 9.2, or which needs something releated to GUI/window management ...
basically all major commercial programs and/or hardware drivers which came out after 1999 "require" OS9+. in addition, some will also require a G4.
but thats not to stop u from having a 9600 or biege g3 thats upgraded to a g4.. like i posted about a few weeks back i think u can upgrade these machines up to a 500mhz or even 1ghz g4.
the upgrade cards are often for sale alot more often then alot of the other parts we look for..
-
I think I'm gonna go with a 9600 running 8.6 permanently. If an upgrade CPU will still run 8.6, I'm happy.
-
There's apparently a 1GHZ Sonnet card that's compatible with the 9600. I can't find much info about it on the net.
-
i recently checked ebay and as it seems it is not so easy to find upgrade cards.
-
There's apparently a 1GHZ Sonnet card that's compatible with the 9600. I can't find much info about it on the net.
800mhz
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/sonnettech/crescendo_g4_pci/crescendo_pci_g4_800.html
by compatible system
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_system/powermac_pci.html
-
i recently checked ebay and as it seems it is not so easy to find upgrade cards.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=crescendo+%28mac%2C+apple%2C+g3%2C+g4%29&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xcrescendo+%28powermac%2C+macintosh%2C+mac%2C+apple%2C+g3%2C+g4%29&_nkw=crescendo+%28powermac%2C+macintosh%2C+mac%2C+apple%2C+g3%2C+g4%29&_sacat=0
click this link above
-
would he ned a PCI solution for his 9600?
-
would he ned a PCI solution for his 9600?
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_system/powermac_pci.html
thats how "Everymac" has chosen to organize the data
The following upgrade cards are compatible with the Apple Power Macintosh 7300, 7500, 7600, 8500, 8600, 9500, and 9600 series
they arent pci addons
they are processor daughtercards
The card plugs into the daughtercard slot, replacing the original daughtercard.
the processor itself sits on this vertical card similar to a pc's slot-1 cpu card style
of the pentium 3
see pic
http://computers.popcorn.cx/apple/powermac/9600/pm9600-06.jpg
-
I'm a little concerned about the PCI stuff for a 9600. I know this has been discussed but it's way over my head... I'm going to have all kinds of shit in that 9600.
USB/FireWire card - USB Hub for mouse/keyboard/dongle
MOTU 324 card - 4x ADAT Lightpipe
SATA card - SSD drive for OS 8.6 & software
IDE card - 1TB storage HD
Video card 1 - Monitor 1
Video card 2 - Monitor 2
That'll fill up all 6 slots, and it's just enough to do what I need. Maybe I'll need only 5 slots if I can connect two SATA drives to a single SATA card. I'm concerned that the PCI bus isn't fast enough for all of that. I guess I'll find out!
-
I'm a little concerned about the PCI stuff for a 9600. I know this has been discussed but it's way over my head... I'm going to have all kinds of shit in that 9600.
USB/FireWire card - USB Hub for mouse/keyboard/dongle
MOTU 324 card - 4x ADAT Lightpipe
SATA card - SSD drive for OS 8.6 & software
IDE card - 1TB storage HD
Video card 1 - Monitor 1
Video card 2 - Monitor 2
That'll fill up all 6 slots, and it's just enough to do what I need. Maybe I'll need only 5 slots if I can connect two SATA drives to a single SATA card. I'm concerned that the PCI bus isn't fast enough for all of that. I guess I'll find out!
if i were u id stick with 1 card for Disk I/O? simpler?
ie: if u were to get a SSD that goes into an ide port u could get a 64 bit IDE controller card like the one i got acard-6885m.. that would free up a slot it takes up to 4 hard drives! and can do 2 seperate raid pairs..
regardless of the card being IDE vs SATA it would still be a 64bit card with the potential for faster thruput..
(http://www.esaitech.com/images/detailed/2/FFF/img52883.jpg)
this card takes 4 drives with 4 ports
wait what am i thinking! this card cant be put into a 9600! it doesnt have 64bit slots
lol
;)
oops
;)
but then in that case there is the Acard 6880m
(http://www16.plala.or.jp/stijl1985/Mac/g4/_imageg4/6880m.jpg)
this card takes 4 drives with 2 ports
-
I think I need to do a bunch of searching tonight about maxing out a 9600. I think they've got some video cards with DVI outputs on them, but none that have 2x DVI outputs so I'll have to get two of them. We'll see how the project goes
-
Just use a old-school setup. Forgive the 2nd video card and the SATA card for to be sure not to stress the bus... and the power supply.
Or use a DVI+VGA card as the radeon 7000-9200 pci or a VGA-VGA as the Jeronimo or the MATROX-PROMAX DH on AGP machines...
Fewer components makes troubleshooting easier.
Do 9600 has SCSI? Is 9600 capable of Target Disk Mode SCSI? If you only need to take files(sessions) to the 9600 TargetDM SCSI'ing with a G4 with a SCSI card.
Had you OVERHAULED the PSU?
Please keep posting about that 9600 setup. Those pre-Jobs machines are legendary!
-
I think I need to do a bunch of searching tonight about maxing out a 9600.
Look on https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php (https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php)
macrumors, http://www.ifixoldmacs.com/ (http://www.ifixoldmacs.com/) and http://happymacs.wordpress.com/ (http://happymacs.wordpress.com/)
Also everymac and lowendmac
-
wouldnt it be the same as a b&w g3 for video.. radeon 7000 8)
(http://store.mancor.org/images/products/detail/DiamondProductsS60PCIRadeon700032MBDDRSDRAMPCIGraphicsCardBYMancorTech.jpg)
-
I remember having those resolution problems with an ATI card. I hope the same thing doesn't happen :'(
-
re: the disk i/o the sata pci card would prob be alot faster then that ide 6880m..
i was just thinking u would probably want to get a seritek card that supports ESATA port multipliers
rather then have your disks tucked inside the ancient 9600 u could have them in an ESATA external hard drive case nice + neat + accessible + plugged in via an Esata cable
that would be the fastest + best solution going i think
i wouldnt want to be opening up the 9600 much other then to put pci cards in which is a breeze mounting drives inside a 9600 is not my idea of fun;)
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1se2/
hmm it doesnt say anything about port mulitplier tho. damn
Note: SeriTek/5PM requires a SATA host controller that supports Port Multiplication, such as the SeriTek/2ME4-E and the SeriTek/2SE2-E (for systems with PCIe slots), SeriTek/2SE4 (for systems with PCI-X slots), or SeriTek/2SM2-E (for notebooks with ExpressCard/34 slots) -- http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-5pm/pr/launch/
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-2se4/
this card supports port multiplier for sure but is it downward compatible with 32bit pci slot? probably
but im not sure - ok scratch this one it says: Operating Systems Supported Mac OS X version 10.4.0 or later (works best with 10.4.6 or later) its tiger + up only..
so no port multiplier for os 9.. bummer
-
...and there goes the benefit of having 6 PCI slots ... you need them to add all the upgrades you would have for free on a newer mac. :)
-
...and there goes the benefit of having 6 PCI slots ... you need them to add all the upgrades you would have for free on a newer mac. :)
quite true unfortunately.
-
wouldnt it be the same as a b&w g3 for video.. radeon 7000 8)
(http://store.mancor.org/images/products/detail/DiamondProductsS60PCIRadeon700032MBDDRSDRAMPCIGraphicsCardBYMancorTech.jpg)
I couldn't get this card to work properly on OS 8.6, only on 9.xx
-
the 8.6 update to 8.0 was released in may of 1999..
5 months before the release of mac os 9.0
5months isnt that much time for them to be so terribly different from one another.
-
Ok, I finally got a 9600 on the way. Now I'm looking into upgrades. I'll take care of the video and CPU stuff myself so it's just a SATA PCI card and a USB card that I need. I heard a few mentions of different USB cards that will work under OS8.6 but they don't seem to be available.
-
IOGEAR GIC250U
IOGEAR GIC251U
IOGEAR GUF3121 (w/FireWire)
All of these have OSX as a requirement, but from the PDF files I looked at on their website all of these support Mac OS8.6. Kind of contradicting.
-
contradictions like that will be rampant they are all a result of the manufacturers + companies
followuing suite with steve jobs own "attitude" towards the classic mac os
blatantly turning his back on it and dumping it like a bad habit
i also beleive thats also what spawned the same opposite reaction from "diehard" mac os 9'ers
because of the disregard they witnessed mac os 9 get.. they try to do "ignore" + "disregard" mac os X
lol
its just amazing how all these companies totaly deleted all the websites + reference materials that were EVERYWEHRE
before in and around 2004.. rather then archiving.. + keeping the info linked (which is easy to do.. wtf? its the internet)
look at companies like refx pretending they never even made mac os 9 product ever.. if u ask them "sorry thats too old, we cant be bothered keeping track of that"
i was a web developer and have always thoughtt personally every company should have been keeping every version of their website online
since the dawn of the web archiving + adding info over time, instead companies constantly break links.. delete old versions...same as manufacturers do
thankfully there are a few rare exceptions + also the "Web.archive.org" backups
anyways all of these issues are ancient history..
u should be fine using any nec based usb card
i dont think u need to find a specific usb 1.1 (non usb 2.0) card with specific support for os 8.x
is that what you are doing?
-
There seems to be some Mac USB support driver from Apple v. 1.4.1 that works with just about any USB card from what I'm reading.
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1238
They have some cheap Macally card on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/MacAlly-UH-275-2-Port-USB-1-1-PCI-Card-Mac-/361025370426?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item540ec9f93a
I'll probably pick one of those up and see how I fare.
-
at least get a 4 port card if ur gonna use up a pci slot at least get 4 usb ports;)
i have the nec usb 2.0 card that has a darker pcb (http://www.sunsway.com.hk/photo/pci-usb-nec-4.jpg)
pulling my card and inspecting further on the rear i see a sticker with this info:
ADAPTEC AUA-4000C P/N 221770-R REV:A 0612
a quick search reveals: http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/support/_eol/usb_adapters/aua-4000/
USB2connect 4000
This USB 2.0 host adapter supports both PC and Macintosh environments. Provides connectivity to USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 devices. It has four external ports
works fine for mac os 9.22 without any drivers - i have my midi controller pcr-30 edirol connected to this card aswell as my emagic usb dongle
http://download.adaptec.com/pdfs/user_guides/usb2connect_ug.pdf
i think the 4000 is part of a series that includes earlier or just less featured
cards that have other model numbers such as :
adaptec aua-2000 http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/support/_eol/usb_adapters/aua-2000/ (this seems equivelent to the macally card u linked?)
aua-3100lp http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/support/_eol/usb_adapters/aua-3100lp/
aua-5100 etc
and i have a few other ones too.. let me check the chipsets.
i think one is siig... but it works
alot of articles i read say that via chipsets are to be avoided
but i think i even had one that just worked fine somehow
but i cant remember if this was for 9 or X or whatever id
have to take a list of the cards i have and recheck thoroughly
(http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/PCI_Cards.html)
http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Blog/B8B574BC-BB45-4B3E-9D9B-F97EBB3230BC.html
these pages are all about osx (as japamac is all about osx) but i thought he referenced mac os 9 somewhere in the pages
maybe not
everywhere u look on the net, re: usb carsd
mac os 8 compatibility is definatey going to be mentioned alot less
then mac os 9 compatibility
the other major issue is deepsleep support
maybe if u specifically look for reference material from the mac os 8 time period
Mac OS 8 (Jul 1997) - 8.6 Update Released (May 1999)
u would have a better chance of finding references to mac os 8 compatibility
but like i said most of this reference material is long deleted by all companies as "old news" of "no value"
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1238 - this update i would guess is already integrated as part of 9.1 + 9.22 versions?
which is why they say "If you use Mac OS 9.1 or later, read the important notes in the Requirements section before installing."
-
There seems to be some Mac USB support driver from Apple v. 1.4.1 that works with just about any USB card from what I'm reading.
hm, and usually there is also a driver coming with a card. :)
why no hub? cables? would save you the PCI slot for something else.
-
the 2000 card lists:
System Requirements
PC
IBM-compatible PC with 266 MHz or faster processor
Microsoft® Windows® 98SE, Windows 2000, Windows Me or Windows XP
Available PCI slot
CD-ROM drive
Macintosh
Mac OS 9.2 or later
Power Macintosh Beige G3 rev. B or later
Available PCI slot
CD-ROM drive
maybe i could try to do a 8.6 install and see if the 4000 card works
id have to burn a copy of 8.6 install cd i dont have one..
-
why no hub? cables? would save you the PCI slot for something else.
this is a valuable point.. a powered usb hub would save u a pci slot
i was considering the same solution on my mdd 1.25ghz as all my slots are full
using a hub would save 1 slot and switching to a stealth port instead of the megawolf pci would save me another
pci slots get used up quick!
-
I have a hub. How would I get USB working without a PCI card?
-
I have a hub. How would I get USB working without a PCI card?
lol..
another valuable point LOL .. kinda need a usb port to plugin a hub;) lol
-
I have a hub. How would I get USB working without a PCI card?
i already forgot that we are talking about a 9600. :)
-
Now I'm wondering if I should just get an IDE card like you were mentioning Chris. The two HDs I have are an SSD and a larger 1TB drive, both SATA, but both of them are connected via the SATA-IDE connector cards that I bought from OWC in my MDD at the moment.
I never noticed any speed problems with them at all that way, but having two adapters on each drive going to a PCI card I'm not sure I want to risk. The IDE cards are much cheaper than a Sonnet Tempo 2-port SATA card by about $60.
I might just bite the bullet and buy the SATA Tempo card to be safe.
-
SIIG SC-SAT212
(http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll300/15-150-015-01.JPG)
These are cheap on Ebay but I don't know if they'll work.
-
syntho i bought a bunch of those cards from a guy that reprogrammed the silicon image sil3112 cards with specific bios chip
it was a guy from 68kmla and i paid him about 15-20$ for each card i think i ordered 2 from him i wish i had ordered more tho because he refuses to make them anymore as hes worried about legalities of it.. and its a bitch to resolder the chip the guy was a soldering pro but yes the cards he made were basically exact replica of the tempo sata card
back to the ide card
the reason i suggested this acard 6880m card to u is
a) guaranteed compatibility with os8.6
b) u could put 4 drive ports instead of 2
c) all drives would be bootable under os8.6
d) having enough ports for your cdrom/dvd drive
e) price + Availability, i gave u the link to the ebay auction i think? i got mine in like less then 2 weeks shipped frm taiwan for 20$ with no extra ship cost! i was really impressed i think they had companies that used these in large quantities and now they are liquidating old hardware etc
check the pic - the manual states compatibility with os 8.5
f) how i envisioned using this myself... u can have port 1 for cdrom/boot drive and port 2 used for a raid0 array (for double the read speed to load samples) the speed coming from the fact that two drives can read faster then 1 drive..
the same as knez has experienced with his DOM module on the ATA-66 bus
the access time of the drives is largely whats important ..
ata133 is not much slower then sata150 (150-133, do the math 18 rating pts slower)
but this wont matter on a 9600 that was made originally with a scsi bus or ata-33 bus? (whatver it is)
another reason
the 4 ports is the biggest benefit tho... to get the same using sata card would take 2 pci slots right
like i have the acard 6290m which is sata raid with 2 ports. i wish there was one for sata raid with 4 ports like the 6880m but sata. but i dont think there is.. theres the seritek cards that have 4 ports but they are 64bit pci and the 9600 doesnt take 64bit pci.. + the seritek cards dont have raid controller integrated.. this acard is true hardware raid.. which would let u have raid under mac os 8/9 which would otherwise require software raid
-
This may be a good solution for the Money ($19 with free shipping)...but no Hardware RAID on the 6280M.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acard-AEC-6280M-PCI-Ultra-ATA-133-IDE-Controller-Card-For-Apple-Mac-G3-G4-/261206382868?pt=US_Computer_Disk_Controllers_RAID_Cards&hash=item3cd11d1914
Wow... did not know this was addressed, I remember this sucked back in the day...
Frame dropping and loss of audio sync was a problem with some earlier ATA/33 and ATA/66 PCI controllers, especially when used on older Power Macs (7500, 8500, etc.)
The Tempo ATA100 comes with a Tempo AV Firmware Flasher (technologies provided by FirmTek, LLC) that includes options to tweak the firmware settings to optimize it for Video or Audio applications. Reports are already coming in from consumers that purchased the Tempo ATA100 testifying that, with the help of the tweaks, their frame dropping and audio sync problems went away.
The Acard folks have their own "tweaker" to deal with "stutter" which they call "AV Optimizer." It works with the 6260M, 6280M, 6860M, and 6880M.
This compares the 6280m with the 6880m
http://www.barefeats.com/hard21.html
Also good info:
And in case you are wondering, the Miglia Alchemy ATA-133 PCI cards are just relabeled Acards for Europeon distribution. So what is true about Acard ATA-133 cards are also true of the Alchemy.
-
I read this same thing about the Sonnet Tempo SATA card. I wonder if that was fixed.
-
I haven't read any reports of the SIIG card working (and booting an OS) in a 9600 but it's only $12. I may try it since it's cheap.
Now I'm just concerned about audio dropouts. I read that even iTunes does it.
-
if u are lucky u can find the 6880m for the same price as the 6280m
i bought mine, like i said, for about 19$ (shipping included from taiwan)
but if hardware raid under os 9 is not interesting to you
then its easier to go with 6280m they are more easy to find now
a few months ago there were lots of 6880m's for sale
now, it seems to be only 6280m (naturally people would elect
to get teh more featured card for the same price)
this is whats happened .. the (second hand) 6880m cards are selling out first
diehard,
out of curiousity where can i read more about this AV optimizer?
(ie: where is the source of this info?) was it in the manual?
i gues it was just mentioned briefly on the barefeats site?
another pt from this barefeats site:
An alert reader found a SIIG ATA-133 RAID card at Fry's Electronics. It's an Acard 6880M ATA-133 RAID card in disguise
(http://i.ebayimg.com/07/!BgYKPjg!Wk~$%28KGrHqIH-DIEsJUpiZGEBLFC9eoGJ!~~_35.JPG)
honestly i think there is alot of these ata133 dual port pci 32bit cards that will work for both mac + pc
even if they arent documented as such... i think that if u were to find one on the cheap (im talkin les then 10$)
u might be surprised that it actually works fine.. and when i say that i mean mac os 7-8 bootable too
again, this is just a guess.. but a well-read educated guess;)
-
I haven't read any reports of the SIIG card working (and booting an OS) in a 9600 but it's only $12. I may try it since it's cheap.
Now I'm just concerned about audio dropouts. I read that even iTunes does it.
if u are talking about the siig sata.. then im 90% sure it will not boot mac os.
hence all the into i posted into my "bootable pci" thread and the big deal about specific versions that did work
because most did not.. but if u have 12$ to waste and want to explore this.. go ahead
im sure we would all be excited to find a new source of sata pci cheap cards that boot mac
but this is the whole reaosn why the other mac booting cards sold for 69$+ in contrast to the pc ones that did not
they upped the price by 50$ for the mac crowd because they could;) supply + demand! capitalism at its finest
the ATA controllers for IDE drives.. like i just stated in the last post..
u could have sucess with... i would bet money.. u have at least a 50/50 chance ti will work.. lets say.. (liek the pic of this card i just posted in the last post,
the article diehard posted says this is the exact replica of the acard card) im sayn i think alot of these ata100/ata133 cards will be compatible with pretty much
anything.. another brand name coming to mind was that Promise Fasttrack 100 TX2 or fasttrack 66
but this has all been discussed in other threads
-
I read this same thing about the Sonnet Tempo SATA card. I wonder if that was fixed.
in conjunction with what apps should that happen? i mean, data is data, why would "dropouts" happen for certain file types only?
it is mostly matter of the way how a program reads the files, i.e. if the buffer is big enough. to bring quicktime player or cubase in the situation that data runs out a harddisk would have to fail at reading and sending data for like a quarter of a second ...
-
No I hear that audio drops out no matter what you're doing in any software that uses audio.
SIIG JU-2NE012
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/YMQAAOSwbqpT8Si~/$_12.JPG)
I'm wondering if this thing would work well. I read somewhere that it would but all the SIIG cards seem to be made more for Windows machines.
-
if u want a usb/fw combo.. id stick with sonnet
not sure if they do a fw/usb/lan combo card
-
I'm wondering if this thing would work well. I read somewhere that it would but all the SIIG cards seem to be made more for Windows machines.
Only a very few models of Silicon Image equipped cards will work on Mac Os 9 ( 3112 I think) and even more:
- They need to be flashed on a MS DOS PC.
- The working voltage of the card must be changed.
- Probably ROM chip must be changed also.
- And Mac OS 9 ROM file edited.
so...
-
wow, so many issues at once. maybe he should invest $15 instead of $12 and get a mac card? 8)
-
wow, so many issues at once. maybe he should invest $15 instead of $12 and get a mac card? 8)
15$?
without seller life threatened?
WOW!
Cheaper than my green dog ! -afro-
LOL
-
I'm wondering if this thing would work well. I read somewhere that it would but all the SIIG cards seem to be made more for Windows machines.
Only a very few models of Silicon Image equipped cards will work on Mac Os 9 ( 3112 I think) and even more:
- They need to be flashed on a MS DOS PC.
- The working voltage of the card must be changed.
- Probably ROM chip must be changed also.
- And Mac OS 9 ROM file edited.
so...
doing all of the above will give u the equivelent of a sonnet tempo pci
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_serial_ata.html
which is basically a seritek 1s2 http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1s2/
that is painted purple
this is why i suggested the acard 6880m because u can put 4 drives on that card
these two cards.. only two drives
the other possibility would be to get a seritek card that supports port multiplier
(so u can have 4-5 drives housed in a external enclosure connected externally via ESATA cable to a seritek pci card /w esata port)
but i think that isnt possible with a pre-g3 powerpc mac 600 series cpu machine..
i think for port multiplier support it must be g3/g4+ using OSX
just get the damn 6280m or 6880m and use IDE drives
if u want to put an ssd, get one of the DOM modules that knez suggested and connect to the acard card
(https://wiki.confine-project.eu/_media/testbeds:kingspec_ssd_module_ide_16gb_dom.png?w=400)
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0096/7752/products/aec-6280M_grande.jpg?v=1330124275)
compare the sonnet - firmtek cards - they are the same thing
-
well maybe not.
the second hand prices for "mac edition" stuff are usually even more overpriced than when new.
-
I'm going to wait on getting the Sonnet SATA card. If there are audio dropouts, I'll just use the internal SCSI drive. That'll save me a PCI slot anyway.
-
i would seriously abandon all concerns about "Audio dropouts" honestly
harddrives have come along way since that time period..
these types of errors were more related to the actual drives ability to function moreso
then the ATA/SATA
hard drives from 2005 2006+ were alot different then hard drives from 2002 2003
ALOT better and now we have SSD which goes even further
-
I'm going to wait on getting the Sonnet SATA card. If there are audio dropouts, I'll just use the internal SCSI drive. That'll save me a PCI slot anyway.
good idea. :) the 2xSATA150 card is a nice product. one should simply test if any problems appear when streaming lots of data from disk. the price of 80 euros is paid back as soon as you connect only one 1TB harddrive, because 2 500 gb IDE HDs already cost 120 euro more.
in opposite to the internal scsi controller of a 9600, which is limited to something like 10 - 12 mb/sec, you will never come close the maximum a SATA disk has with such a computer.
one second of 24/44 audio is 0.129 mb long ... SATA150 will allow you to read more than 1000 tracks ... there is no software for MacOS 8 which allows that ... not talking of the speed and size of RAM you have in a 604e machine, which will end long before you reach 500 tracks.
-
...
-
I read these posts about dropouts from both pre-2002 and 2012 or so. The only thing that will bother me is the additional HD noise and the loading time.
-
I'll just use the internal SCSI drive. That'll save me a PCI slot anyway.
yeah.. not so much.. this isnt really going to be an option,
as 110 has pointed out, this SCSI is an ancient form of scsi that is nowhere near what it needs
to be for what u are going to want to do with it.
u wont regret getting the sonnet sata card, when u see the performance difference between it
with ANY sata2 or sata3 hard drive made in the last 8 years let alone an ssd, its kind of worth
giving up a slot for.
-
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/audio_stops_with_SATA_card.html
was this one of the threads u read? im googling now trying to find "pci sata audio dropout"
because if u read it, it says the guy solved the problem, and this was with an OWC Sata card..
i think they mention the seritek card tho (which is the same card as the sonnet as i mentioned previously!)
To be honest
i know diehard has mentioned this many times
and i know he based this on problems he experienced..
but from the research ive done, the whole 'pci bus saturation' stuff is more of a myth
because the pci bus can handle alot more data then that.. as mactron demonstrated with his
experiment using the seritek 1v4 width 2 ssd in raid formation to acheive a speed higher then 133mb/s
the pci bus can handle alot more then whats being thrown at it in =any= pci based computer... so this whole pci saturation explanation for audio dropouts doesnt cut it for me
we should know how easy it is for buggyness to occurr (with mac os 9 IN GENERAL I mean) and based on the amount fo times ive seen other people be incorrect about the cause of a problem
and myself personally.. its easy to make a mistake and think u know what the problem is.. or to make an assumption and even easier still to be totally incorrect
about that assumption.
theres no fuckin way simply having your hard drive connected to a pci card doing everyday bullshit clicking around is gonna cause dropouts
look at my post i just made about data rate of recording.. and compare it to teh bandwidth provided by these cards too.
its not even needing 25% of what it can do..
and remember knez comment about easily taking care of all his tracking needs with a 7200 IDE drive on the built in ata bus of a g4 (which is ata-66)
the real reason u get a performance boost using the sata drive is the actual drive u are using afterwards
and like mactron pointed out on knez post about DOM module.. the *access* time of the device is where the huge gain is.
the g4s already have ata-66 .. when u use ata-66 with a wickid good performing hard drive. = great performance!
but the old 600 series powerpcs.. they have like ata-33 + shitty internal scsi.. its more worth it on those machines
+ kind of neccessary to bypass the ata-33 or internal scsi or wahtever it has that is SOOO dated
did u already buy this thing? or are u just talking conceptually?? are u going thru with this? cpu upgrade to g3/g4?
-
That's one of them. I read elsewhere that there's firmware/software for slowing the card down which gets rid of dropouts. I'm unsure where that software is available.
-
modern HDs do not make any noise. the first thing one should do on any mac lower than G5 is removing the HDs and donating them to a museum. a 13 years old IBM deskstar is about as loud as a G4 PU fan and so hot that oyu cant touch it. a 6 years old maxtors noise is hardly noticable and it feels warm. with current SATA drives you will not be able to tell if it spins or not.
-
i think i will actually test that over the weekend, if it is possible to get drop outs from SATA disks in OS9. until now i am using my IDE disks for audio.
-
if it was my oldschool powermac 9600/9500 i would get any ATA-133 card.. and a sata/ide adapter.. and a brand new 80gb sata drive which costs about 15$ at my local store now.. so cheap! but its a SATA3 hard drive. brand new. made in the last few months (yes 2014!) the combination of new disk performance with trusted compatibility of the ata-133 = win!
ssd are faster for read.... so better to use a ssd for the boot drive..
new sata3 hd's built recently are crazy fast for reading + writing.. when compared to even 2005 hard drives..
(its almost 10 years of practice inbetween the manufacturers have had)
i would do this..
1 x acard 6880m raid adapter pci 32bits..(which provide 4 ports)
4 x sata/ide converters (@ $2-3 each off ebay, just to have them around to allow for any possible config)
2 x ata/133 ide cables (with master/slave connections for 2 drives each)
4 x molex power splitter (in case you need them)
port 1: SSD boot drive (kingspec 32gb would do nice or 64gb SSD like a samsung or ocz.. any brand)
port 2: [recording audio drive] - new sata3 hd 500gb
port 3 & 4 : two drives in raid1 - providing fast loading of project files/samples AND safety at the same time!
(2 copies of the data to share the read-load so read speed is doubled)
another possible config could be
port1:SSD boot drive
port2:backup mirror of port 1 (1&2 ports in raid1 for safety)
port3: [recording drive] new sata3 hd 500gb
port4: connected to sata dvd via sata/ide adapter
(maybe one of these new dvd drives that mactron posted about)
or u could use a raid1 for your audio record drive for safety..
anyway just some ideas
but maybe this would be best config:
port 1: SSD boot drive
port 2: cd/DVD
port 3 & 4 : two drives in raid1 - providing fast loading of project files/samples AND safety at the same time!
(2 copies of the data to share the read-load so read speed is doubled)
im pretty sure that a new sata cd/dvd will be able to read discs faster then ata-33 speed..
im not even sure. does these old 600 series cpu powerpc have ata-33 bus?
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac/specs/powermac_9600_300.html
this makes no mention of ata-33 or ata-66 so u must need ATA/SATA to even have a cd?
or else u would be using what.. a scsi oldschool crappy cd? no way!!
-
http://lowendmac.com/1995/power-mac-9500/
heres a good page of links on the subject? but lowendmac.com is freaking slow..
what are they running this website off? a macintosh se ? :)
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/firewire/firewire_combo_cards.html
some info on fw/usb combos
orange micro fw usb is one i read people thought was good?
-
USB/FireWire card - USB Hub for mouse/keyboard/dongle
MOTU 324 card - 4x ADAT Lightpipe
SATA card - SSD drive for OS 8.6 & software
IDE card - 1TB storage HD
Video card 1 - Monitor 1
Video card 2 - Monitor 2
are u using a 2408mk1? which motu is giving u 4xADAT? dont u mean 3xADAT ;D
-
I have two of them.