Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Mac OS 9, Hacks & Upgrades => Topic started by: bjorkj02 on February 19, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
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Hello - I've recently acquired a PowerBook G3 333 (Bronze/Lombard), along with the installer disk(s) for OS 9.1.
I then had a Mac expert [but not a genius :)] wipe the HD completely and install 9.1 from scratch. After doing this, he also tried booting into OS X, but for some reason the computer wasn't having it and it wouldn't work ...
He told me that 9.1 is really the cleanest and best option for using OS 9 natively, since the later versions only added functionality and fixes for OS 9 compatibility mode ... This sounded promising, since I only bought this computer for running OS 9 natively anyway.
Which brings me to the question: In a scenario where a user is *only* running OS 9 natively, what would be considered the best version to install?
From what I've seen, there are anecdotal reports of computer boot times (and general use) being slower (or more sluggish) starting with 9.2. Also, I've read some reports of users needing to revert to 9.1 after upgrading and having issues ...
On the other hand, at http://macos9lives.com/mac%20os%209%20lives_003.htm it says "in general, many users have favored the very last revision, Mac OS 9.2.2 as the most stable and preferred version". Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9#Version_history says the 9.2 and 9.2.x versions added some bug fixes that *could* apply to the native OS 9 (it seems unclear) ...
So I'm open to either option, and just want to make the best decision and go from there before I start downloading more software and begin using this computer more seriously.
Thanks for any advice!
- Jim
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Whilist it is true a lot of 9.2 was for improved working with OS X, there were other minor improvements that may or may not get noticed depending on what you're doing. A lot of control panels and extensions had updates for example.
As a general rule I use 9.2.2 on anything that *can* run OS X.
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Thanks for the reply, ovalking! Since there haven't been any dissenting opinions, I will accept this as the final word and proceed with installing 9.2.2 ...
However, after searching this forum, I'm not actually sure what the correct process is with 9.1. It appears my options are either:
1. Download 9.2.1 and install it first. After that, download & install 9.2.2. It looks like the following is a good source for these files: https://www.macintoshrepository.org/814-mac-os-9-updaters-us-english . I like that these links use StuffIt Expander, but am open to other suggestions for this ...
2. Upgrade directly to 9.2.2 via the "Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install - ISO CD Image" (via http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2109.0). The only question is that it doesn't say whether a specific version is required to upgrade from ... So I think you can go from 9.1. to 9.2.2, though perhaps they're assuming the user knows you have to have 9.2.1 first. In any case, it'd be good to double check this since it's unclear from my reading of the web page.
Another question: I read somewhere that the best option is to boot the Mac from your system installation disk (in my case, the 9.1 disk), and then do the installation from there. They said something like this puts the Mac in an optimal condition to do OS updates. Is that true for doing (minor) OS updates like this, or does it not really matter?
Thanks again for any advice!
- Jim
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Well… here you are. Right back where you started.
Having watched you go around and around gathering every little factoid and all for the last 2-3 weeks, I have only one bit of advice.
Stop overthinking everything.
The differences between OS9-anything and OSX are MAJOR.
The differences between OS9.1 and OS9.2 are very minor.
The differences between OS9.2.1 and OS9.2.2 are infinitesimal.
The Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install - ISO CD Image is a complete installation…NOT an "upgrade". Installing it over OS 7,8 or 9-anything will overwrite whatever's there and leave you with 9.2.2. That's just fine.
That's where you want to be.
I am NOT trying to be snarky and/or critical. I want to impress upon you that wandering around every little thing you find on the internet like "I read somewhere that the best option is to boot the Mac from your system installation disk (in my case, the 9.1 disk), and then do the installation from there. They said something like this puts the Mac in an optimal condition to do OS updates." WILL eventually make you crazy.
As time goes on and we get farther and farther from the old days of MacOS, all kinds of stuff like that has appeared on the net. Some of it is accurate but a lot of it is supposition based on partial fact and partial guesswork. It is impossible to sort it all out. We spend a lot of man hours days months here on the Forum doing exactly that.
Thank Apple for sweeping it all into the dustbin of history instead of archiving it somewhere accessible. Maybe they couldn't afford it……
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Thanks for the reply, GaryN! I do appreciate the perspective, and I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear this isn't the first time I've been said to be overthinking things :D
So I started with the 9.2.2 universal install approach, but it turned out to be very difficult to actually get that file onto my machine (note: on my PowerBook running Classilla, the browser wasn't able to reach the download page after entering the password) ...
So I ended up going with the incremental approach via macintoshrepository.org, since that was easier to get correct looking files from another computer onto the PowerBook...
And finally I've done the 2 updates and now have the machine on 9.2.2. I must say I *think* this computer is actually booting a little quicker now compared to 9.1, and otherwise seems ~ exactly the same. So all is good, and again I appreciate the advice on these matters!
Best regards,
Jim
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So I started with the 9.2.2 universal install approach, but it turned out to be very difficult to actually get that file onto my machine (note: on my PowerBook running Classilla, the browser wasn't able to reach the download page after entering the password) ...
We're gonna have to look into that. This is not the first time I've heard of issues getting there.
Anyway, what P-Book do you have and what specs?
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I am using a PowerBook G3 333 MHz (Lombard/Bronze Keyboard).
Also, for reference, what happens is I get to the main download page, click the link and arrive at https://files.secureserver.net/0fSxARWHb8bA7P
At that point, I enter the password and click "Unlock" (or hit the 'Return' key). But then nothing happens - it's as though that button is disabled.
Note: at one point yesterday I was actually able to get the "Unlock" button to function (not sure what was different in those cases). But then I just got an error message, and the download page was not loaded.
I hope that helps!
- Jim
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I am using a PowerBook G3 333 MHz (Lombard/Bronze Keyboard).
Also, for reference, what happens is I get to the main download page, click the link and arrive at https://files.secureserver.net/0fSxARWHb8bA7P
At that point, I enter the password and click "Unlock" (or hit the 'Return' key). But then nothing happens - it's as though that button is disabled.
Note: at one point yesterday I was actually able to get the "Unlock" button to function (not sure what was different in those cases). But then I just got an error message, and the download page was not loaded.
I hope that helps!
- Jim
It actually works fine, but there was a caveat with classzilla, you have to globally enable "Java Script" and then I think hit the down arrow next to the file instead on the file itself :(
I should get the exact sequence of steps and post it somewhere... sorry, but the downloads will work under OS9
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It actually works fine, but there was a caveat with classzilla, you have to globally enable "Java Script" and then I think hit the down arrow next to the file instead on the file itself :(
I should get the exact sequence of steps and post it somewhere... sorry, but the downloads will work under OS9
That "somewhere" would be in the instructions here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2109.0.html
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Thanks - that is good to know ... So I went into Classilla Preferences > Advanced > Scripts & Plugins. This is where the JavaScript settings appear to be.
However, I'm not seeing a way to globally enable them. Instead, the default appears to be that JavaScript is enabled for 'Navigator', and not enabled for 'Mail & Newsgroups'. Also, everything in the 'Allow scripts to' section is checked.
Also, there is this text: You must enable JavaScript for sites that you trust. To do so, click the S in the lower right of the current browser window
It seems these settings should already be correct, so I went back to https://files.secureserver.net/0fSxARWHb8bA7P , clicked the "S" icon in the lower right corner of the browser, and followed the prompts (while leaving all settings at default) to enable JavaScript.
I then entered the password, clicked "Unlock", and the page was returned as would be expected. Also, clicking the 'Down' arrow icon does display the options ... except the 'Download' option was greyed out.
So I tried clicking the file link, but that didn't do anything .... Except that when I tried clicking the 'Down' arrow again, it didn't actually work now.
Anyway, at least this experience got me closer to download functionality, and perhaps it will be helpful in further debugging whatever is going on.
- Jim
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Yeah... this was a problem when we had to shift our online storage a few year back to a different vendor.
In fact, AFAIK our current setup is the only "non-FTP" storage that works at all under OS9, and unfortunately without a "password" our links were popping up all over the place and causing unnecessary traffic that was not ours to the downloads. Then I went under some real personal challenges as far as time to address some of these issues and it was put on the back burner; now, back to classzilla...
You must enable JavaScript for sites that you trust. To do so, click the S in the lower right of the current browser window
Yes, that is definitely needed in order for the download to work, but it needs to be set as enabled "globally" I can't remember the exact wording or choices, but I will look at this again
I then entered the password, clicked "Unlock", and the page was returned as would be expected. Also, clicking the 'Down' arrow icon does display the options ... except the 'Download' option was greyed out.
OK, I think I remember that the arrow may NOT work, but simply clicking on the filename does... let me know
- Diehard
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Well, somebody had to……
Hey DH… Bjork is 100% correct. That file will NOT download. A modern browser reveals the attached message when the file is clicked:
The 9Lives jpeg along with it is fine.
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Well, somebody had to……
Hey DH… Bjork is 100% correct. That file will NOT download. A modern browser reveals the attached message when the file is clicked:
The 9Lives jpeg along with it is fine.
Well, that's depressing; at this point we only have a few choices...
1) Make a "modern" browser for OS9... don't think that's gonna happen
2) move vault and select content to macintosharchive.org, we don't control access
3) tell everyone to buy an extra computer to download stuff
I don't like any of these choices :(
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Perhaps an argument for a dual-boot machine…
with a small partition for some version of OS X
…simply for the browser & download capabilities?
IIRC - my Lombard was previously set-up in this way.
It was very slow - but such downloads were possible.
Worth a test?
And that’s my post #666.
(The devil made me post this.) :D
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1) Make a "modern" browser for OS9... don't think that's gonna happen
2) move vault and select content to macintosharchive.org, we don't control access
3) tell everyone to buy an extra computer to download stuff
4) tell anyone to run a hotline server and share stuff p2p instead of leaving all the work and cost to the central admin.
OSX 10.4 and safari 3.0 - and even tenfourfox 36 - are also done now, btw. they are not giving you proper www experience anymore.
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4) tell anyone to run a hotline server and share stuff p2p instead of leaving all the work and cost to the central admin
P2P is truly a grand idea but implementation for novices / perhaps not quite so easy?
As for "proper www experience" the dual boot with OS X (& Safari) = only a stop-gap temp measure.
(And really none of it has been proper since the web's commercial bloating.)
Missing those early (much better) days.
And yes, I do use a newer machine for downloads.
Dasvidaniya comrade. ;)
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Well, somebody had to……
Hey DH… Bjork is 100% correct. That file will NOT download. A modern browser reveals the attached message when the file is clicked:
The 9Lives jpeg along with it is fine.
Well, that's depressing; at this point we only have a few choices...
1) Make a "modern" browser for OS9... don't think that's gonna happen
2) move vault and select content to macintosharchive.org, we don't control access
3) tell everyone to buy an extra computer to download stuff
I don't like any of these choices :(
I was digging into the OpenSSL 1.0.2u source yesterday and not only do they actively maintain Mac OS 9 support they have a sample program that downloads a file over HTTPS. Maybe just a standalone downloader program with modern certs and OpenSSL could go a long way. I also wonder how trivial it would be to update the SSL and certs of Clasilla.
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Well, somebody had to……
Hey DH… Bjork is 100% correct. That file will NOT download. A modern browser reveals the attached message when the file is clicked:
The 9Lives jpeg along with it is fine.
Well, that's depressing; at this point we only have a few choices...
1) Make a "modern" browser for OS9... don't think that's gonna happen
2) move vault and select content to macintosharchive.org, we don't control access
3) tell everyone to buy an extra computer to download stuff
I don't like any of these choices :(
I'm confused. The ReadMe, which is a OS9Lives! jpeg opens and/or downloads.
The iso file yields:
"An error occurred during a connection to cache.os.cloudstorage.secureserver.net"
I attempted connecting / downloading with THREE generations of browsers: Classilla, TenFourFox in Leopard and Firefox 73.0.1 in Mojave
None of them got anywhere. The issue seems to be a failure of the forward / handoff to "secureserver.net"
NOT any browser fault / shortcoming.
Am I missing something?
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I was looking into setting up a hotline server a while back, could look into this again if it's a good option?
Edit: Oops just saw GaryN's response
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(And really none of it has been proper since the web's commercial bloating.)
yes of course. that is probably the main problem. it would be too good if using outdated browsers would just get all the advertising and fake news away, isnt it. :) but sometimes i need cryptdrive methods and newer certificates which dont work in 10.4, so i have kind of stopped using it for that.
actually today you need at least 10.7 (i think thats safari 5?)
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I'm confused. The ReadMe, which is a OS9Lives! jpeg opens and/or downloads.
The iso file yields:
"An error occurred during a connection to cache.os.cloudstorage.secureserver.net"
I attempted connecting / downloading with THREE generations of browsers: Classilla, TenFourFox in Leopard and Firefox 73.0.1 in Mojave
None of them got anywhere. The issue seems to be a failure of the forward / handoff to "secureserver.net"
NOT any browser fault / shortcoming.
Am I missing something?
OK, when Adrive was no longer viable and we moved to Workspace Online storage, I tested the downloads with OS9 and classzilla and they worked, however it was not a "straight forward" process, I remember that java script had to enabled for all websites and also that the download had to be clicked in a certain position, whether it was the "filename" or just the arrow, I cant remember.
As I look at mt inventory sheet 15 MDDs (including the main one with our original site files), 9 QS, and 12 G5 Towers all made it to the storage unit alive and well. There are 2 crates of Mac minis that also survived there, it is a 20 minute ride from here. Special thanks to Mat for shipping a few minis directly to my new office.... so as I ramble on, let me get to the point; I swear between today and Sat, I will prep a mini and test downloads on classzilla, every non-OS9 machine I have at the new office, literally Win X thru 10, Mac OS 10.4 to present works, so I need to get back to the basics and get an OS9 machine back up for testing. Then I can write down the steps and post them
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Very odd… indeed.
Spent several hours installing OS 10.3.9 again on the Lombard today
and attempting to access and download the highly coveted OS 9.2.2
using both Internet Explorer and Safari (all to absolutely no avail).
THEN…
I downloaded / installed Classilla 9.3.3 (via written thumb drive).
Tried to open it in 10.3.9 on the Lombard and it started to access OS 9…
along with the info that I should install Quicktime 6.0.3 (which I did not do).
Then rebooted into OS 9.2.2 (already previously installed on the Lombard)
and opened Classilla. Had to “allow” some certificate business but
with a few more clicks… it is now downloading.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5352.0;attach=7277;image)
*Looks like I need to set the time correctly on the Lombard.
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every non-OS9 machine I have at the new office, literally Win X thru 10, Mac OS 10.4 to present works,
YESTERDAY (3/2/20) nothing worked.
TODAY (3/3/20) Everything works. Initiating a download in Classilla, requires a double-click on the .iso file. The little arrow "actions" box is not openable. BUT double-clicking works.
Either the good DieHard found and fixed it OR there's a ghost in the machine. Hmmm?
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LOL, no Gary, didn't do a thing, but I appreciate your kind thoughts toward my ability to get it done.
My dearest friends, since you did my work for me. Can any of you list a step by step with numbers of the exact procedure of...
1) Exact setting for Classzilla (and version)
2) Where and what to click on the download...
I will then copy at pasted that sucker to all the download directions re: users with a Mac OS9 only computer
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Click on the icon... not the arrow
and then make the choices as you go along.
(First pic shows what appears after that double-click.)
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There is clearly a need to explain enabling Javascript on Classilla since so many new users seem to expect it to "just work" like a modern browser.
HOWEVER. Yesterday, the secureserver link DID NOT work…period - under ANY browser or OS. An entirely different issue.
Something to keep an eye on.
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Might’ve been a “Left Coast” problem of some sort?
I accessed and downloaded it yesterday @11:00 a.m. C.S.T. via a 2009 iMac running El Crapitan - but I did have friends “out there” (also yesterday) experiencing access problems web-wide. I also downloaded it via Safari v5 / Mac OS 10.5.8 on a G4 17” iMac FP after 5 p.m. yesterday. (I tried not to drag out the Lombard until today.)
Rarely use any G4 here tethered to the web anymore / RE: security issues, speed, etc.
And as inexpensive as Core2Duo Mac Minis are now, they’re not so bad for such download / access.
Just sayin’. ;)
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OK... I will save those screenshots, I thank you :)
So I am guessing the Javascript does not to have to be enable with that method
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...guessing the Javascript does not to have to be enabled...
I didn’t.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5352.0;attach=7289;image)
Just checked under Classilla “Preferences/ Advanced” and I didn't check “Enable Java”.
However, did click on the “S” in the lower right corner of Classilla’s browser window...
when it appeared with a red circle ‘round it & struck through. (See below.)
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Just checked under Classilla “Preferences/ Advanced” and I didn't check “Enable Java”.
However, did click on the “S” in the lower right corner of Classilla’s browser window...
when it appeared with a red circle ‘round it & struck through. (See below.)
AFAIK, that just meas "danger, danger, you have enabled it globally for all sites" or maybe that means it's off, at either point running it globally is fine IMO.
Basically, running it globally means you are trusting that all the sites you go to are known safe and will NOT run some crazy malicious Java script that immediately turns your G4 into a torrent porn server.
I think this is a mute point, and I doubt any malware programmers are focused on OS 9, so I think it is safe in 2020.
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If you're referring to clicking on the "S"... I don't think this enables it globally
...because it still appears with the red-circled S on other sites, afterwards.
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From Classzilla:
NoScript, by default, disables JavaScript completely for all sites except those you white-list. You can access the white-list by clicking the S icon at the bottom right of the window, and enter hostnames for sites you trust. If you choose to disable NoScript and use JavaScript on all sites, you may check the global JavaScript option but because of the known security issues is at your own risk. You may need to reload the current page if you have just enabled JavaScript on it to make sure it can load all of its resources.
Some sites may prevent you from clicking links or viewing content while JavaScript is enabled due to these bugs. If the page you are browsing does not seem to respond to your activities or clicks, or does not show content that you expect, make sure that JavaScript is disabled and reload the page
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Guessing it's off Red circle on S means "No Scripts" ?
If JavaScript is disabled, you may need to enable it for some sites to work at all. Remember that the default state for NoScript is to block all sites unless you state otherwise. Most sites that absolutely require JavaScript will detect this problem, and will direct you to enable it.
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Will have to re-examine this all later.
Errand-run day here. ::) Beat traffic!
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DutydeBongo
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Cannae fool ye IIO. Mask or no.
And yes, all as posted by DieHard above. Once the S is clicked, that site (whatever it might be)
is kept in the white-list. I’m not that trusting to global enable Java… torrent porn server or not.
Daylight comin’ and me wan go home. 8)
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different people, different needs.
for me, the lack of http browsing, flash and video streaming is one of the best features of OS9.
very good for my overall productivity.