Sidechain VST compressor?

[IIO]

Maybe someone is up to the task of digitizing all this stuff and making it available for members here.
I don't have the time, but I'd love to share it! There is a LOT that I don't see for DL here (or anywhere).
Best,
_BT

hehe, yeah, it is definetly a matter of finding the time. i am planning since 2006 to reassemble the collection and distribute it as "OS) audio final", but it would be like 3 weeks of work, and even in 2014 there are about 30 or so private or legal issues included in this job)

maybe we can do that together one day, one never know, maybe you missed one file or two.

btw, did you ever get the koblo 3.0 developer stuff to work?

[IIO]

I am sorry if I sounded as if we starve families...We ALL want to make a place around DAWs running MacOS9 and most of us had paid for our software (Logic and Protools in my case) and/or VI/VST/RTAS.

that is true for BT or me as well ... i spend some 30k euros on software ..  but that has never stopped me from the "collecting and testing" thing.

the trick is that you have to understand the difference between using something for your company and, well, playing around for scientific or psychotic motives privately.

to sum it up, i respect the rights of others – but i ignore any restrictions of my own. there is no contradiction between these two rules when you do it right.

and if you want to hear my personal story .. stealing sometimes made by buy things, and buying sometimes were followed by stealing.
collecting, which led to "owning" things then has finally made me start programming my custom DSP stuff and mostly stay away from commercial products – and also from freeware. because both are made by others, which means it is imperfect.


-110

[arjen_1]

But the "shell" thing is the worst idea they could have, In my opinion...

Totally agree. That's exactly opposite to the -what you see is what it is- approach of OS9. Now I understand why I didn't get Waves working. Thanks for your clear explanation. I'll give it try!

Greetz,
Arjen

[arjen_1]

Works perfectly. A system within a system.
I overlooked the VST shell, wich was hidden in my menu.  (Icon view) LOL

But now we have the major challenge. How do I setup the Waves 3.2 C1 Compressor - Sidechain?
Since Cubase 5 VST/32 doesn't have a sidechain bus this will be setting up groups/panning etc?
If someone has a step by step tutorial; greatly appreciated. Otherwise...I will write one as soon as I figured this one out.

[MacTron]

hehe, yeah, it is definetly a matter of finding the time. i am planning since 2006...

I've planning this since way before...
and when was decided to make a download section "Macintosh Garden" style, I thought that was my best chance of doing this.

to reassemble the collection and distribute it as "OS) audio final", but it would be like 3 weeks of work,

We are working on this over a year...
...so stand up and take some of your files and share it with us please...
It's your chance to go into the MacOs9Lives "Hall Of Fame"! LOL

and even in 2014 there are about 30 or so private or legal issues included in this job)

Most of the software offered here:
- Is very old and without any comercial posibilities.
- For a computer platform buried 12 years ago.
- Is from software companies that didn't exist already.
and some of the companies that still exist are sharing his old app versions with the source code included! (Apple, Adobe...)
... and most of us don't make money sharing or using this old software.
The MacintoshGarden is a good example of this...

So..
Think different!
...and share with us...

Your friend, MacTron

[IIO]

We are working on this over a year...

hehe, then maybe there is something wrong in your current approach. we are talking basically about unstuffing, testing, repacking, well, and like i mentioned above, there are still some legal issues left even after 10 years. that should not take more than 3 weeks.

and of course it would be fun to build an OSX installer package on a BD-DL image from the whole collection, with custom install options so that you c an choose what you want.

It's your chance to go into the MacOs9Lives "Hall Of Fame"! LOL

i think that is the last thing what someone should try to become famous of. normally i should not even discuss such topics in public.

and i dont think we are in need of getting famous for collecting and sharing, because soon i will be famous just for the "OMG he is still using OS9 in 2015!".

of course i am also still developing for OS9.

- Is from software companies that didn't exist already.

that is one of the problems, that this is not exactly true.

and some of the companies that still exist are sharing his old app versions with the source code included

sure, some companies even shared their full versions with the scene when they were fresh. or even before they come out. but that was 15 years ago, where people were cool enough not to discuss warez on facebook&co, but rather just do it.

granted, in practice i dont really see the problems i described, except for the 30 examples i mentioned. otoh, companies like waves or roland are sueing people for less (than putting cracked apps on a website.)

maybe one should just try to convince right holders to give away their old stuff for OS9, like some already did? it was about time.

last but not least: somehow it is pretty sad that every new user forum turns into a warez thing after 3 days. in my experience sofware doesnt do music, brain does. i would prefer to (also) talk on the "how do you do it" layer, thats what gets you somewhere in the end.

i believe i use less software than what i legally own, if you know what i mean.

[IIO]

Since Cubase 5 VST/32 doesn't have a sidechain bus this will be setting up groups/panning etc?

left into right. move tracks accordingly (or use subgroups), and use 2 plug-in instances for stereo.

[Jakl]

Anyone got another way of explaining how sidechaining is done with a Waves C1 (or whatever plugin) in CubaseVST32? Drum track and a bass track?

[IIO]

http://www.waves.com/downloads/manuals ?

hm, just visiting the forum from classilla, looks great.

[arjen_1]

Hi,

Unfortunately the C1 manual doesn't explain anything as far as the steps you have to take in Cubase. You've got to setup various sends, groups etc before you can actually use L->R. That's the real issue, no easy way of doing this at all.
I've been searching a lot of old forums and I found this tutorial. Didn't try it out yet....

 "First, create a stereo group, and put the 'Waves C1 comp sc' plugin on it. Then route the bass track to the group (at maximum volume, ie 0dB on the bass fader) and use a PRE-FADER aux send to get the kick to the same group (at maximum volume, ie 0dB on the aux send), with the bass on one side and the kick on the other - hard left and right. I assume you know how to route an aux send to a group. You can pan the aux send of the kick channel to one side of the group by clicking the 'Send display modes' button above the list of sends to see the routing of each send. This means that the bass goes through the group to the outputs, and the kick goes both through the group, and directly to the outputs - and the level of the kick fader DOES NOT affect the kick level going to the group. Basically the idea is to use the compressor to reduce the level of the group when the kick drum hits... since the bits inbetween the kicks are uncompressed, the effect of this is that the parts of the bassline that fall at the same time as the kick get reduced in volume compared to their level between kicks... if you see what I mean! So... you send the tracks to the group in their different ways, panned on opposite sides as I said. Pan the group to the centre so that the kick and bass come out of the group in the centre of the stereo field - ie. the group output is in mono. At this point the group will be outputting both the kick and the bass - the kick will probably seem far too loud. Don't worry! Set C1 'Key mode' parameter so that the side with the kick is doing the compressING and the side with the bass is being compressED, eg. if you have kick L and bass R, set it to 'L->R'. Now the kick channel will no longer play through the group, and the bass channel will be compressed - not by its own dynamics, but by those of the kick. This is called 'sidechaining', where the dynamics of one sound are controlled by the dynamics of another. Now you can start compressing. Take the kick fader down to zero so you only hear the bass - don't mute the channel though as this might mute the send too. Set the ratio to about 8:1 and adjust the threshold so the gain-reduction meter shows, say, 12dB of compression - this is a lot but it makes hearing what's going on easier. Make the attack as fast as you can - this means the compressor reacts instantly to the kick. You should now be hearing the bass drop in level every time the kick drum hits. Now adjust the release time so that the bass comes back up in level as soon as possible after the kick has finished; this depends on the shape of the kick, the speed of the bassline and how much 'pumping' you want to hear. You can try EQing the sidechain by clicking the 'EQ Mode' button on the compressor controls until it says'Sidechain'; the compressor EQ now affects the sidechain (ie the kick drum). You can hear the effect of this by clicking 'Sidechain' button in the 'Monitor' section - you will now hear only the kick. If you take all the bass out of the kick here, the compression on the bass will react faster, as it is now reacting only to the 'click' of the kick. To hear the bass again, click 'Audio' in the monitor section. Once you have got the bass pumping nicely it's time to balance it with the kick. If you've set things up correctly you can change the levels of the bass (using the group fader) and the kick (using its channel fader) as much as you like without affecting the compression. Set things up so that the level of the bass between kicks is good compared to the kick (I try and aim for maybe 2dB lower than the kick, but it's a matter of taste). Now listen to the level of the bass during the kick drum. If it's too low, you need to reduce the compressor ratio (eg to 6:1); if it's too loud you need to compress more. Try experimenting with the Release control."

Pretty clear huh..... LOL

I am suffering from a personal CPU overload. I am getting myself a cup of coffee and gonna sit & relax & watch my rainy garden.

Have a nice afternoon!
Arjen

[MacTron]

"First, create a stereo group, and put the 'Waves C1 comp sc' plugin on it. Then route the bass track to the group (at
...

...
compress more. Try experimenting with the Release control."

I hardly can read even 1/2 of this text...
I'll hope this can help:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1169.msg4492#msg4492

[IIO]

Hi,

Unfortunately the C1 manual doesn't explain anything as far as the steps you have to take in Cubase. You've got to setup various sends, groups etc before you can actually use L->R. That's the real issue, no easy way of doing this at all.

thats a matter of organisation and how experienced you are with your DAW.

if you want to use track 7 and 8 as input for 13 and 14, you basically just switch tracks 7 and 13, then insert the plug-in into both. but yes, in cubase you have the problematic situation that there are different methods of organising tracks. if you use stereo files and stereo tracks, and you already use a dozen of plug-in on both stems, it is getting a bit cumbersome.

my general advice for cubase was to use "any tracks" only. then moving sources around or using subgroups becomes very easy.
i dont want to insult your intelligence, but you know that you can route only one side of a stereo mixer to a subgroup by holding alt (or was it option?) ?

Pretty clear huh..... LOL

hehe, yeah, thats why i dont read manuals at all.

[arjen_1]

I'll hope this can help:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1169.msg4492#msg4492

It sure does! I am going to give it a try a.s.a.p.

[supernova777]

pretty long winded -- alot easier to digest if u take your time and break it into paragraphs.. just gave it a try, its hard to get it set up right for a good pumping effect.. but seems to be working? only needs to be set up right?

First, create a stereo group, and put the 'Waves C1 comp sc' plugin on it.
Then route the bass track to the group (at maximum volume, ie 0dB on the bass fader) and use a PRE-FADER aux send to get the kick to the same group (at maximum volume, ie 0dB on the aux send),
with the bass on one side and the kick on the other - hard left and right.


I assume you know how to route an aux send to a group. You can pan the aux send of the kick channel to one side of the group by clicking the 'Send display modes' button above the list of sends to see the routing of each send. This means that the bass goes through the group to the outputs, and the kick goes both through the group, and directly to the outputs - and the level of the kick fader DOES NOT affect the kick level going to the group.


Basically the idea is to use the compressor to reduce the level of the group when the kick drum hits... since the bits inbetween the kicks are uncompressed, the effect of this is that the parts of the bassline that fall at the same time as the kick get reduced in volume compared to their level between kicks...
if you see what I mean!


So... you send the tracks to the group in their different ways, panned on opposite sides as I said. Pan the group to the centre so that the kick and bass come out of the group in the centre of the stereo field - ie. the group output is in mono. At this point the group will be outputting both the kick and the bass - the kick will probably seem far too loud. Don't worry!


Set C1 'Key mode' parameter so that the side with the kick is doing the compressING and the side with the bass is being compressED, eg. if you have kick L and bass R, set it to 'L->R'. Now the kick channel will no longer play through the group, and the bass channel will be compressed - not by its own dynamics, but by those of the kick. This is called 'sidechaining', where the dynamics of one sound are controlled by the dynamics of another. Now you can start compressing.


Take the kick fader down to zero so you only hear the bass - don't mute the channel though as this might mute the send too. Set the ratio to about 8:1 and adjust the threshold so the gain-reduction meter shows, say, 12dB of compression - this is a lot but it makes hearing what's going on easier. Make the attack as fast as you can - this means the compressor reacts instantly to the kick. You should now be hearing the bass drop in level every time the kick drum hits.


Now adjust the release time so that the bass comes back up in level as soon as possible after the kick has finished; this depends on the shape of the kick, the speed of the bassline and how much 'pumping' you want to hear. You can try EQing the sidechain by clicking the 'EQ Mode' button on the compressor controls until it says'Sidechain'; the compressor EQ now affects the sidechain (ie the kick drum).


You can hear the effect of this by clicking 'Sidechain' button in the 'Monitor' section - you will now hear only the kick. If you take all the bass out of the kick here, the compression on the bass will react faster, as it is now reacting only to the 'click' of the kick. To hear the bass again, click 'Audio' in the monitor section. Once you have got the bass pumping nicely it's time to balance it with the kick.


If you've set things up correctly you can change the levels of the bass (using the group fader) and the kick (using its channel fader) as much as you like without affecting the compression. Set things up so that the level of the bass between kicks is good compared to the kick (I try and aim for maybe 2dB lower than the kick, but it's a matter of taste). Now listen to the level of the bass during the kick drum. If it's too low, you need to reduce the compressor ratio (eg to 6:1); if it's too loud you need to compress more. Try experimenting with the Release control."

[geforceg4]

the waves is actually the only plug-in which can do it on classic VST – unless you build custom pluggo plug-ins. then everything is possible.

t-racks is RTAS/TDM only in classic.

NOT TRUE according to the t-racks.com site there is definately a VST version of T-racks for mac os 9.

this confusion probably arose from the fact that they chose to use RTAS for the images of the plugin version, probably because they wanted to emphasize its compatibility with pro tools therefore the professional end of the market... but there is indeed a VST version even though this is not reflected visually in the images. read the page. check the graph.


http://web.archive.org/web/20040410061753/http://www.t-racks.com/Main.html?TRInfo
http://web.archive.org/web/20040411020648/http://www.t-racks.com/Main.html?prod_TR_Plug

[macStuff]

did anyone ever find the t-racks plugin version?
or did anyone ever solve that Waves C1 sidechain bug???

[IIO]

Unfortunately the C1 manual doesn't explain anything as far as the steps you have to take in Cubase. You've got to setup various sends, groups etc before you can actually use L->R. That's the real issue, no easy way of doing this at all.
I've been searching a lot of old forums and I found this tutorial. Didn't try it out yet....

not really. the most straight forward way of using C1, C4, orange vocoder 2, is to simply move the audio tracks together.

of coourse this only works if "split stereo", "mono" or "any" was you choice of track format.

for "stereo" track format you caan of course only do it by routing.

[macStuff]

from what i remember it was theorized that v4.0 waves would solve the c1 sidechain bug.. did anyone ever find waves 4.0?

[Metrophage]

from what i remember it was theorized that v4.0 waves would solve the c1 sidechain bug.. did anyone ever find waves 4.0?

Only Waves 4.0 I've ever come across was OS X only. If there's one for 9 I haven't seen it. I have used only 3.0 and 3.2. But I never tried sidechaining with them - I didn't know what that meant in the 90s.

ETA: Now that I recall, some of the TC dynamics plugs had sidechain abilities, but I don't remember which ones.

[Metrophage]

Some Wayback-fu indicates that there was indeed Waves 4 for OS 9. I'm going to check it out, assuming that the usual ilok resets work.