Mac OS 9 Lives

Classic Mac OS Hardware => Storage => Topic started by: Petros90 on September 21, 2021, 11:52:58 AM

Title: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Petros90 on September 21, 2021, 11:52:58 AM
Thanks to all who read my post three years ago about this issue.
Thanks to Reader 50 who responded.

The issue is still not resolved. "All" I want, is to be able to save /backup projects to an external hard drive, and thence to a PC for further development and ultimately to the outside world via The Internet.

This seems on the surface a simple issue, but it drove me barking mad three years ago and my Mac G3 (bought new in '99 as a University student) project ground to a halt and I gave up.
There was but one reply to my "The PCI / USB1 / FW400 / ATA100 issues" post in March 2018 despite it being read 2680 times. Perhaps I was trying to solve a range of issues and the topic/s was too broad.

Lat week I re-re-resurrected the G3. It seems to be running OK, three partitions on a HDD totalling 120GB. There's a video editing partition with Premiere 6, an old favouriute, and a Cubase 5.1 partition plus a larger storage partition.

If I can try and describe the issue, just to be absolutely clear, not being funny etc:

The G3 has FW 400 built-in, I have an external LaCie 20GB FW drive, just FW, no USB
The G3 has built in USB (retrospectively, USB 1) - two ports, one for KB & mouse, one spare. Transferring files this way is obviously painfully slow, but at least it's an option.

Back in the day I would burn three-minute video projects onto CD along with project files. These days, I'd like to create bigger projects on this machine.

So, my "simple" solution, was, and possibly still would be, an external drive that had both USB 2 and FW 400, so I could swap files easily - and quickly - between the G3 and PCs.

Looking through my collection of "stuff" I discovered that back then I had sourced an OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual RAID enclosure, which has USB 2 and FW 800, a FW 800 to 400 cable, and a Sandisk 120GB SSD.

(I also found a Seriatek 1eVE2+2 PCI 4-port SATA controller (also has 2 internal cables) card, imported to the UK at an alarming cost. This was presumably to address internal speed issues, so as far is this post is concerned is I think a herring of the scarlet variety.)

So yesterday I did this:

Plugged the drive into my PC (W10) via a USB dock. It didn't appear, but Windows knew it was here as it gave the merry "I see you" sound and again on disconnect.
Now, I can't recall if Windows can "see" Mac-formatted drives so they appear as folders. I thought it could but I'm not certain, so I followed OWC's instructions and inserted the SSD into
the RAID enclosure and set the selector to "independent", booted up. It didn't appear, tried a couple of times, nada.

My questions are! -

1) am I on the right track with this solution? Anyone tried it?

2) maybe the drive is toast (not "Toast" the CD-burning program), should I try to source one of MacTron's "known SSDs that work with OS9"?

3) have I missed something? Am I being a numptie?

4) with a new SSD do I need to do anything else, can I format the drive through FW, or do I have to insert the PCI card, connect the SSD/s, format, remove, etc etc - it appears I only need to do this if I'm partitioning the drive. I'm not worried at this stage about formatting a large drive to "only" 120 GB. It's a small price to pay.

5) Is there now a dedicated USB 2 + FW external drive? That would be like, oh I don't know, very cool.

6) really don't want to do that 4) internal formatting etc stage thing above. I nearly went mad three years ago.

7) Final thoughts as I'm typing this - is this all a sledgehammer to crack a nut? I have access now to a relatively new PC which seems to have a spare PCIe slot. You know what I'm thinking, sling a cheap FW card in there and my problem is solved. Could it be that simple? Am I missing something?

8) if 7) above, can I install a bigger drive - say a 120GB SSD or HDD in the LaCie? It is held together with screws,

9) Anyone come up with a way to run USB 2 on OS9 yet? Just kidding ...

I have of course read DieHard's Guide to creating a portable external drive but this doesn't address my issue. I have yet to find (apart from the OWC RAID box) an external drive that has both USB and FW.

I have, of course searched this Board, it seems most are concerned with booting from an external drive, speeding up internal storage etc. At this point I'm really not too concerned about speed issues, the G3 seems fast enough currently. Apart from this one thing.

After only two weeks into the re-re-resurrection shuffle, all this seems to be like wading through treacle. Please bear with me, I'm trying to re-learn many things what I have forgot.

I know a lot of you guys have bene doing this a loooong time and this problem may seem trivial, but someone could make an old man very happy if this wee problem were to be resolved.

I have spent a lot of time getting the G3 to this stage, within minutes of booting up for the first time in three years I remembered what it was I liked about it. How can a 400MHz single core be so ... snappy?

Fingers crossed - and, thanks. In any case, it's good to be back.

Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Jacques on September 21, 2021, 01:08:44 PM
I can't answer all your questions...but...

I have a PHR-250CC 2.5" aluminium enclosure I bought in...oh, 2005? I use this with a little 60GB drive to transfer between my Mac Mini G4, 2012 Mac Pro and my linux/Win10 box. It is USB2.0 and FW400. However, my 60GB drive is partitioned as FAT32 and HFS+, so anything I need to shift to the Win10 box I copy to the FAT32 partition. Note, you will lose any permissions when moving files to FAT32, so image / archive the info first and then copy across.

Also, the little enclosure certainly works very well with FW400 without external power, however due to the limited 500mA power draw on USB2, the drives you can use will be limited if you are solely powering via USB2. The enclosure is supplied with a DC power jack so you can add a 5V supply to overcome this issue. (USB cable -> DC 5V power cord, loads available). My Hitachi Travelstar 7200rpm drive pulls 1.1A and won't even spin up while purely on USB. The Fujitsu I have pulls 550mA and it will spin and read, but after extended us it will splutter and restart due to lack of available current.

MacAlly used to make them with the PHR-250CC reference, mine was a generic import from China to the UK...though it looks like a MacAlly, but without the brand name. :)

PS - If you plug a HFS / HFS+ drive straight into Win10 it will register the drive but not be able to open / access it as Windows doesn't understand HFS/HFS+. You can *buy* HFS+ software for Windows that will read the filesystem (Paragon, £20...I'm sure others are available), though I suggest just go FAT32 and keep an eye on permissions.

Edit - I'm on OSX 10.4.11 and MacOS 10.14.6....Does OS9 have FAT32 support?
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: ovalking on September 21, 2021, 01:50:24 PM
Sorry, I've no experience of SSDs (yet).
On the odd occasions I need to transfer files between Mac & Windows I use ftp.
Title: B&W G3 FW Debacle
Post by: FBz on September 24, 2021, 03:29:52 PM
Have been fighting here with this for the last 2-3 days and thinking that Jacques’ suggestion might have been the way to go in this instance. BUT, I tried dual-partitioning a 20 GB Firewire drive with one partition (Mac OS Extended) and the 2nd partition as MS-DOS File System. Both partitions then mount and are accessible under OS X (10.4.11) on an 800 MHz G3 iBook. However, upon reboot to OS 9 drive partition on the same iBook… only the MS-DOS partition mounts [as a Macintosh PC Exchange (MS-DOS) drive].

And mind you, this sort of formatting is not possible under OS 9’s Drive Setup AND it reports the FW drive itself as unsupported. SO ya gotta use OS 10.4’s (or later) Disk Utility for formatting under this scenario.

Now, attempts at mounting this same FW drive - formatted as above, on an actual G3 Blue & White are even more odd. Without the help of Hard Disk SpeedTools v3.6 installed on my B&W G3 (running OS 9.2.2)… the FW drive would not mount at all AND Drive Setup there reports the FW drive as a SCSI Type. (Think that Petros90’s B&W has the Rev. 2 mobo with the updated ATA chip, whereas mine does not.)

Oh, but it gets better. (NOT)

I then formatted the entire 20 GB FW drive as MS-DOS using the option of Master Boot Record under OS 10.4’s Disk Utility on the iBook. Transferred downstairs to the B&W and while it recognized it with Hard Disk SpeedTools - it reported it as unreadable and an attempt to then Initialize it to ProDOS - it then reported that this was not possible.

Grrrrrr!

As I’ve said, I’ve tried numerous approaches and mixtures of partitions and partition option types, ranging from GUID, APM and MBR - all to no avail. So it seems that this route (at least from the Mac end) is fruitless. MAYBE if the FW drive was formatted on a Windows-based machine AND THEN connected to the B&W, the results MIGHT be different, usable(?). But I’ve no Firewire-equipped Windows machine here for such an extended, further adventure.

Maybe ethernet / FTP is THE way to go?

And I understand that Petros90 is now looking at Quicksilvers and MDDs for possible purchase?

Godspeed indeed!
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: IIO on September 25, 2021, 05:35:15 AM
re:firewire

we all know these situations where something doesnt work though it "should".

but in fact, oh sorry... let me be precise... in theory any machine with built-in firewire and OS 8.1 or PCI-attached firewire and OS 8.6 should work out of the box with any firewire drive.
as long as the firewire controller knows how to handle the disk, one should be able to apply abritrary formatting and use the volumes in OSX and OS9.


2)
there are about 45 SSDs in our list and until now only the evo 850 did not work.

5)
technically impossible and harmful. if you ever run into something which mixes and matches usb and firewire, ignore it. it is for cameras only and it is against the specs.

8 )
the majority of fw IDE enclosures has the 137 gb limit, the majority of fw SATA enclosures have a 2, 3 or 8 TB limit, which is enough to match to Mac OS9´s 2.2 TB limit.

in both cases you can also install and format disks bigger than that, the "unreadable" space will just not be used.

you can use firewire 800 enclosures, too. i was a bit afraid in the beginning, but by now my whole HD rig runs with fw 800 cables.

Quote
How can a 400MHz single core be so ... snappy?

i´ve recently heard from a person who had trouble cutting videos on his M1 mini, because his whatsapp client in background was already using 3 of the 8 of RAM, and the OS another 2.

same goes for the number of active processes in macos 11 or windows 11.

the relations were somehow better 20 years ago me thinks.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Syntho on September 25, 2021, 08:23:17 AM
Get a Synology NAS. It has AFP and SMB compatible file storage out of the box. Connect to it via the Chooser, upload your files, then connect to it from any other PC/Mac. It is by far the best way.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: FBz on September 25, 2021, 09:24:38 AM
Thanks IIO!

“…we all know these situations where something doesn’t work though it "should”.”

“Apple first included onboard FireWire in some of its 1999 Macintosh models (though it had been a build-to-order option on some models since 1997).”

Not too long after the introduction of OS X is when I turned off all the Macs here. After installing OS X right over (with) OS 9 on my B&W - and without partitioning my single, internal HD. Apple had instructed that this was a-okay.

Well, it wasn’t. Not here anyway. Crashes and freezes galore and with me under damned tight production schedules. AND I’d never depended upon firewire for anything else other than sending image files to a large format printer. The once rock-solid and stable G3 machine here was no more. It was networked with other Macs here and I didn’t use external Firewire drives, period.

Kept this B&W around here, perhaps out of nostalgia and for all the time I spent working with it and all of the work that I once actually accomplished with it… all those years ago. A few years back, I two-partitioned it’s HD and installed OS 9.2.2 on one partition and OS 10.4 on the other. It’s now only occasionally booted to help with questions and problems that others may encounter, using a B&W.

And now (after a little mental break yesterday) the only answer and stop-gap workaround I can think of in this situation*… is maybe for Petros90 to go the dual-boot route. Using an bootable install of OS X on a second partition, where he could then transfer files destined for the Windows machine to that partition. [From the OS 9 partition to the OS X partition …where the machine recognizes both the Mac AND the MS-DOS formatted and partitioned Firewire drive.]

*outside of getting a newer (QS /MDD) Mac - OR the ethernet / FTP route. ;)

Was also waiting to hear from Syntho… for a workable solution, sans the dual-boot.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Syntho on September 25, 2021, 10:25:32 AM
Years back on this forum I posted about a similar situation in that I wanted a backup drive that I could bring to and fro. I got some external SCSI enclosures and the rest is history. But I also want some QUICK transfers, and with an external drive, you have to physically bring it back and forth. I still use my SCSI drives for backing up, but I eventually bit the bullet and bought a Synology NAS.

Here are but some of the benefits of a NAS:

- true AFP storage. Files can be uploaded as-is without binning/sit'ing. Files never lose their icon/creator/type. It's just like an external drive.
- can be used with System 7 and any OS above that, plus any windows machine. SMB compatible. Upload from your OS9 machine, open the network folder on a Windows machine and there you go.
- it backs up your files across multiple hard drives via RAID for posterity and integrity.
- is quite fast. Only your hard drive and network card will limit how fast the transfers are.
- can be accessed from a Mac with an AirPort card. Nice for G3/G4 laptops.

I use primarily 9600 machines with System 7. It works absolutely flawlessly once it's set up right. The only problem with it is price. It was like 700USD, plus 4 hard drives totalling about 1100USD. However, once you see what it can do, and the extras you get, you'll be sold. My whole studio and office (with modern computers) are connected to it for backups. It has things on it you don't even know you want yet.

I'm glad I shelled out for it. It's saved my ass many times. All audio transfers, midi backups etc go on the NAS for transferring to another Mac. Plus, I use the Apple Restore software for backing up my installations and I upload them onto the NAS.

Just do it. You'll never look back and wish you'd have done it earlier.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: IIO on September 26, 2021, 07:42:22 AM
AND I’d never depended upon firewire for anything else other than sending image files to a large format printer.

when done right (this mainly applies to vendors, not end users) firewire is the most trouble free thing you can have.

(the only thing it does not help to is the application to use it to transfer files between mac and PC, that is still best done with either an NAS disk or - for very small files - a portable USB stick)

also, in a pure gigabit network the trasfer speed is twice a high as with firewire 400. :(

its main advantage otoh is that you can use multiple devices with only one port. i have 16 HDs and 3 optical drives connected to port #1 and 4 audio interfaces connected at port #2.
i also have a spare PCI card for firewire, but you dont even need that if you only do 2 different things with fw. :)

using network to transfer files directly (as opposed to NAS disks), like you did, is of course the third option.

you can get an industry standard managed switch with gigabit for 10-25 USD and then you can connect 23 computers and your WAN to each other and use every service you wish.

as soon as a 100mbit ethernet computer plays an important role in transporting files, network is pretty slow there though. but it might still be okay even to exchange a 40 track audio project with 9mb/s once a week.

however, IMHO anything releated to eSATA or SCSI seems only overexpensive - and is full of limits.

Quote
Using an bootable install of OS X on a second partition, where he could then transfer files destined for the Windows machine to that partition.

like i always say: OSX PPC sucks to work with - but it is an essential utility to extend your OS9 computer.^^

(many things i have to move from win to G4 requires unrar and disk image mounter, others require to convert weird audio file formats, that stuff needs OSX anyway. renaming and sorting is more fun in OS9 then.)

Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on September 27, 2021, 08:48:28 AM
I use something like this:
https://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=31389

Connect to Mac with FW400. Connect to PC with USB 2.

I format as one FAT32 partition on Mac or I use MacDrive 9 on XP to create multiple partitions.

The main problem is: do you want to keep your resource forks, and what about all those invisible files that are created by PC on a Mac partition or by Mac on a Windows partition?

I make Toast images on Mac that I mount read-only on PC. I make ISO images on PC (with UltraISO) that I mount read-only on Mac.

It’s also possible to create disk images in Universal Disk Format on Mac and they can be mounted read-only on PC.

Toast images can be edited on Mac and PC using MacDrive. ISO images can be edited on PC using UltraISO. Universal Disk Format images can be edited on Mac using Disk Copy.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on September 28, 2021, 12:04:35 PM
Here's the documentation of my external HD.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Petros90 on October 02, 2021, 10:22:52 AM
Thanks for the info, everyone.
Please remember that I haven't used OS9 seriously since 2002. So some of this will be baby-babble to many.

Story so far -
NAS -
looks like overkill for me. Expensive, and there's the issue of setting it up,
way outside my comfort zone.
I appreciate that there are are still serious users of OS9 and I understand that for serious purposes this is the best way to go.

Ethernet -
So far ethernet has been unsuccessful. I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm used to connecting automatically in Win10.
Reading about TCP/IP, DHCP and subnet masks has literally given me a migraine.
There is a thread on here, "step-by-step guide" to this, I got lost in the first para.
There is a wireless router-based home network here which also connects to a PC,
three x 18" thick walls away through the ring main, tried that but don't know how
to configure, gave up. (Headache.)

Installing OSX Jaguar -
seems could be part of the way forward, but it appears that installing it on
another drive to ensure smooth running is a requirement. So I'd have to install
another drive, obtain OSX ... probably downloadable from this site.
I have a 120 GB SSD and a StarTech PCI to SATA card bought three years ago, this was probably my intention.
I intend to try this in the coming week. (More research.)

External FW/USB 2 drives -
well I ignored IIO's advice (sorry IIO) and via ebay bought two external USB2 / FW drives.
An Iomega 320GB designed to complement the Mac Mini, and a LaCie 200GB.

Now then, formatting. In OS9 we have a choice of Mac OS extended, Mac OS standard and DOS. DOS is a dead end surely.
So OS9 is no good for formatting FAT32.
In Windows, a choice of NTFS or exFAT. (I've proved to my own satisfaction that none of these work cross-platform.)
I've already proved by using a 16GB USB memory stick that FAT32 works cross-platform. So what I need is FAT32.

Win XP won't format FAT32, but I recall Win 2000 did, and I have one old PC running Win2K I will resurrect.
BUT there are TWO issues -

1) Windows Disk Format can't format FAT32 larger that 32GB (ed. just read this can be overcome:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
There's also a third party utility -
http://fat32format.sharewarejunction.com/)

2) more seriously the FAT32  file size limit is 4GB, there's no way to overcome this, and that is annoying, since a miniDV tape
is nearly 12GB. Although, realistically, am I actually going to export/render miniDV-based movies larger than 4GB for
uploading to the interweb?
And. I'm not sure how relevant this is for audio production.

3) (Fetch the Comfy Chair) Resource Forks. Answer = Archive, apparently. I don't appear to have Stuffit, only the expander.
Strange as I thought this was included in the OS - 9.2.2. I'm Wrong, again.
I think this is a Red Herring. I now have two large external drives, I'll format one for Mac only. The other can be the Exchange Mechanism.
Actually, the easiest way is just to go sod it, I'll do an Overnight Copy to the memory stick. Like we used to do an Overnight Render in the Olden Days.
Even easier, install a PCIe Firewire card in the new-ish PC

4) re. Fire Wire drive limit issues - doesn't seem to be a problem on the G3 with either drive, both see the max.

Finally. Those (a small but valued cohort) who have been following my crazed ambition may be mildly amused by a video I made a while back on the very machine I'm trying to drag into the 21st Century, 21 years ago -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ1_04GvpSA&t=4s

The band has taken up a lot of time I shoulda been spending on OS9. Must try harder. Here's a take on Route 66 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZO69nvm8Zo&t=114s






Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: IIO on October 02, 2021, 10:56:21 AM
Reading about TCP/IP, DHCP and subnet masks has literally given me a migraine.

the process (of entering 3-4 numbers) is the same in all OS.

the usual "problem" with MacOS9 is that the organisation is a bit different; there is no "multiple enviroments settings" available right in the panel, but only one.

otherwise you select "ethernet" as port, "DHCP with fixed adress" as method, and 255.255.252.0 as mask, just like in windows or unix. :)




Quote
So OS9 is no good for formatting FAT32.

yeah, it can read those, but not format.

i use OSX, but i am pretty sure there are also free tools for windows 10 which do this. maybe it is somewhere hidden in the formatting app already.

Quote
and I have one old PC running Win2K I will resurrect.

if i remember right, even windows 7.
Quote
1) Windows Disk Format can't format FAT32 larger that 32GB

oh. :)

Quote
I don't appear to have Stuffit, only the expander.

...contextmenu?


the easiest way how to exchange files regulary still seems to be client/server software, i.e. http, ftp, hotline, you name it.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on October 04, 2021, 10:38:45 AM
PM me if you would like to try MacDrive on your XP computer.
Title: RE: Storage-backup-talking PCs / World
Post by: FBz on October 04, 2021, 12:32:08 PM
After review of the University project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ1_04GvpSA&t=4s just imagine what else might now be possible… after arriving at an “updated” and workable solution.

There are smaller, less-expensive NAS devices perhaps better suited for the minimum (2) [Windows + Mac] machine scenario in this case - BUT a grasp & implementation of the network setup is again necessary.

And if the wireless router has wired ethernet connection ports too (most do) then try “hard wiring” (to it) with ethernet cable. Perhaps easier setup than one might think going this way.


Now, back to OS X… and you don’t have to install another drive. (But it might be nice.)
And you can get Jaguar from the Garden along with all its’ updates. https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-osx-mac-os-10-ppc
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6088.0;attach=9146;image)

If squeamish about reformatting and dual-partitioning the onboard HD already in the B&W to allow for a 2nd partition (on which a bootable OS X might reside) AND you’ve not installed a 2nd HD inside of the B&W… THEN back up your entire, current internal HD to one of the FW drives and then either reformat, dual-partition and re-install a fresh OS 9.2.2 on one partition and a bootable OS X on the other partition, on that single internal B&W driveOR again,  install a 2nd Drive on which a bootable OS X (Jaguar) can reside.

One way or another, if you’re not successful or comfortable with the ethernet / network / NAS approaches… you’re going to have to have a bootable version of OS X in order to format one of the Firewire drives to MS-DOS / FAT32 to use it for “sneaker net” file transfers from one machine to the other (without ethernet).

ALSO you might have your internet service provider (or one of their techs / or some other tech-savvy local individual) visit and set up your machines via the wireless router… hard wired. Might cost you a service call fee or nothing at all. BUT then again, you might be able to stop pulling your hair out and/or worrying with all of these possible solutions that are providing headaches. And you might also have to purchase a low-cost ethernet hub for this but call your ISP and explain that you’re trying to get both machines networked and connected. Still altogether, likely less expensive than a night (or two) out.
Anyone in the south of England here, mind making a house call?

ERRATA…
Lots of very good, possible, workable solutions in this thread.

Ahh, archives. Personally I’m intrigued by the NAS solution. Although $700.00 seems a bit pricey between only two machines. *There are lesser cost, smaller NAS alternatives (for under $200.00?) that even I might consider for all of the numerous Macs here. (Whole lotta files scattered over too many machines and various media types here.)

“or I use MacDrive 9 on XP to create multiple partitions.”  - OS932

PM OS932 about his offer and maybe give that a try? ;)
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: IIO on October 04, 2021, 09:11:55 PM
second hand NAS should not be much more expensive than (other) good quality enclosures.

if you dont need built-in torrent client or a second ethernet port and fancy stuff like that, it should start around 25 bucks.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on October 06, 2021, 09:36:17 AM
https://tinyurl.com/md20211006

Installation:

1. Disable internet connection.
2. Run the installer.
3. It will restart.
4. It will show a dialog to register, then cancel.
5. Stop the MacDrive services.
6. Copy cracked dll to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Mediafour
7. Restart.
8. Register.
9. Input serial MX9EW-U4567-8900X-YZAB9, and choose "I have no connection to the Internet".
10. Input activation code WWWWWRWW-WWWRWWWW-WRWWWWWR.

This works on XP. I tried it on W10 but it failed.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: DieHard on October 06, 2021, 11:02:15 AM
https://tinyurl.com/md20211006

Installation:

1. Disable internet connection.
2. Run the installer.
3. It will restart.
4. It will show a dialog to register, then cancel.
5. Stop the MacDrive services.
6. Copy cracked dll to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Mediafour
7. Restart.
8. Register.
9. Input serial MX9EW-U4567-8900X-YZAB9, and choose "I have no connection to the Internet".
10. Input activation code WWWWWRWW-WWWRWWWW-WRWWWWWR.

This works on XP. I tried it on W10 but it failed.

Failed on Win 7 Pro 64-Bit :(

Internet Disconnected, service stopped,
and made the assumption to copy the the single DLL file under "Cracked\x64" to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Mediafour
Hope that was correct

Did nothing with the DLL under x86 (I assumed it was for a 32-bit XP or Win7 32-bit)
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on October 06, 2021, 11:42:22 AM
Can you be a bit more specific about "failed". What failed? Did the installer fail? Did the control panel open? Did it say "expired" or "not registered"?

I saw this work only on XP, but here they claim that it should work even on Windows 10: https://macbold.com/macdrive-pro-full-crack-free-download4t5/

The following step is not necessary on XP, maybe it is on later systems:

Quote
Step 2: change the host file

Access C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\etc, open hosts file and add this line
127.0.0.1 act2.mediafour.com
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: IIO on October 06, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
if only the pathing of the installer app fails, we could assemble a symlink installer.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: DieHard on October 07, 2021, 08:37:08 AM
Activation failed...
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on October 07, 2021, 11:54:22 AM
I followed the instructions in the download and I’ve been using it since several years and I reinstalled Windows several times in those years. I’m using XP SP3 32-bit.

I tried to install MacDrive Pro 10 on Windows 10 following the instructions from macbold but it says invalid license.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on October 07, 2021, 12:01:16 PM
Windows Disk Format can't format FAT32 larger that 32GB
Mac OS 9 can format FAT32 volumes larger that 32 GB.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on October 11, 2021, 11:05:34 AM
How to install mac drive 9 on Windows 7 Complete Steps
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=etdLosGWlZA
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on October 16, 2021, 03:31:13 AM
In my opinion this works only on 32-bit XP.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Petros90 on October 23, 2021, 09:11:28 AM

Greetings again fellow OS9 enthusiasts

(Not sure whether to carry on this thread, or start posting in the software page? It is actually still a part of the saga, I'm sure the Admins will correct me if I'm in an error state.)

 I have two questions -

1) What is your experience installing OSX Tiger on a Power Macintosh, running OS9.2.2 only and with no access to another Mac?
I've searched the forum, but understandably there's not much info.

My G3 is currently running OS9.2.2.
I have installed a second, 80GB IDE hard drive, formatted Mac OS Extended, two partitions, one slightly under 8GB.

I'm failing to create a bootable CD. So far I have:

> downloaded from the Macintosh Garden the four CDs as zip files. Inside each one is –

a folder: _Mac OSX, inside is  a file ._Tiger_Disc1.toast
and a file: Tiger_Disc1.toast, that one is 444MB

I copied them to the G3, Toast didn't like them and was unable to mount.

> downloaded from the Internet Archive the four OS X Tiger install ISOs on a PC. They are .iso files.
They won't burn in Win10, I did try, "The selected disk image file isn't valid."

I guess the next stage is to copy them over to the G3, connect the SCSI CD burner, and try to burn them there.
But if an ISO file isn't valid in Win10, why would it be any more valid in OS9.
I think I burned Diehard's Universal OS9.2.2 installation CD on a PC, actually. It boots fine, of course.

(It's good to know I'm not alone. Just discovered this thread on mac rumours - "The endless pain of burning a Mac OS X 10.4 cd"
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-endless-pain-of-burning-a-mac-os-x-10-4-cd.2239750/
- the guy gave up trying to burn a bootable OSX 10.4 CD-set on his iMac.)

https://macmaps.com/macosxnative.html#MACOSXLIMIT
isn't that useful, doesn't even mention CD installation.

> So now, I'm currently downloading the CD1 as a dmg from the Macintosh Repository. On the G3, in OS9.

Weirdly, they know I’m using an old Mac, and congratulate me.
This is only the second time I've connected to the Internet (in the last 19 years that is) using OS9, I’m getting used to Classilla. And the lightning speed

I'll then have to connect the SCSI CD-writer to burn the CD.

How do you lot do this? Start off with a later Mac that already has the install DVDs. And a DVD-writer.

That’s cheating, that is. Cowards.

The trouble with all this is that I'm reinventing the wheel. It’s 20 years since I’ve used Mac OS (pre-X) seriously.
I've only just discovered how to partition drives. “Oh yes, I remember.” (I'll have to go back and re-partition the main OS9 drive which is 250GB and OS9 only sees 80GB.)

I've forgotten what the second question was. Our three main weapons are surprise ... surprise and fear ... fear and surprise. And ruthless efficiency.
And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope ...

... Fetch the comfy chair ...






Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: chrisNova777 on October 24, 2021, 11:03:24 AM
do yourself a favour + replace the Optical drive in your G4 with a modern dvd burner drive (20$ at any computer store) youll need a sata to ide adapter of course to connect it to the IDE bus of the g4

there is definately a learning curve coming back to the original MACOS after a long time period, but thats what this site is for

https://archive.org/details/AppleMacOSXTigerInstallDVD
download the DVD version, try using a blank DVD-R (not DVD+R as is more common now vs the early 2000s)
burn the file on a PC or MAC doesnt matter - its an ISO (imgburn on PC should work fine, an appropriate version of Toast if your on a mac)
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: IIO on October 24, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
to make it short, it is not required, but better to use different partitions when you plan to boot between different OSes.

and if you dont have a good reason for that buggy 10.3, then use 10.4.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Petros90 on October 24, 2021, 01:09:36 PM
Thanks Chris,

I'm trying to go slow, after the fiasco three years ago, when I tried to do everything in a rush.
So far, so good.

It's given me a huge amount of satisfaction to solve all the problems and get this far.

I'm at a point where I can archive without using CDs or USB1.1, transfer large files
(up to 4GB anyway) via USB2/FW between the G3 and a PC, AND connect to the internet,

Today I burned (via my old SCSI CD-writer) the Ist CD of the Tiger install from the Macintosh Repository.
The issue was the Verbatim CD-Rs, I substituted a Kodak CD-R and it worked.

Of course, like the two CDs I burned three years ago, the G3 will not boot from this CD,
and it's not possible to select it as a Startup Drive.

So, either the file on Macintosh Repository is bad, or I'm doing something wrong. I suspect the latter.

In Windows, making a bootable CD is not the same as burning a CD - which is what I'm doing with Toast.
Which is v.3.5.5 - I've just found your link to the tutorial on how to make a bootable CD in Toast 5!

... And I was correct, there are quite a few steps to creating a bootable CD.

I'll check my version of Toast and see if it's possible, if not there's a Toast Titanium
download in the software section, also a later version than mine of the SCSI version, so a few options there.

I have got a SATA / IDE thingy, it's the SeriTek 1eVE2+2.
But I suspect it's not just a matter of connecting it up and pressing the button.
Although it does say ' "Plug and play" ease of use' on the box!
I do intend to install it, and an SSD, but I'd like to explore all CDavenues first. THese downloads should work.

Thanks, very much for the reply, it's got me headed in the right direction I think.
And that is really useful info about iso files. I'd suspected as muchh but wasn't sure.

And now, I've just discovered Diehard's post about the politics of OS9 ...
and QEMU ...
I won't be getting into that either!
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Petros90 on October 24, 2021, 01:41:32 PM
Chris, lools like you are right, this article explains a lot -
https://lowendmac.com/2009/tips-for-installing-or-reinstalling-mac-os-x-10-4-tiger/#2

Looks like I need a DVD drive ...
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: macarone on October 24, 2021, 03:35:22 PM
>Looks like I need a DVD drive ...

Towards the end of the article, just before "Install and Update":

Restoring to an external FireWire drive would also work, from which you could boot up and install.

So, no, if you have any kind of images of Tiger install, all you need is an external FW drive.

This also works for installing OS 9 when you can't boot from an installer CD. In fact for OS 9 you don't have to use an installer, but drag/drop from a FW drive works too.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: Petros90 on October 25, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Macarone - yes, I read that.
A G3 B&W can't boot from a FW drive.

It's possible to install via 'FireWire targeted disc mode' apparently, Diehard has written on it, also
Charles Moore on
https://lowendmac.com/2009/tips-for-installing-or-reinstalling-mac-os-x-10-4-tiger/#2

But this is all spurious as it turns out. Had a PM from FdB advising me how to check if my board was a Rev.1 or Rev.2.
Which I did, it's a Rev.2, this got the atrophied brain cells working ... and I suddenly remembered talking about this with the Mac Reseller.
22 years ago.
And I did the obvious thing and opened the drive, looked at the front.
It's a CD/DVD ROM drive.

Normal aging, although not responsible for causing memory disorders, is associated with a decline in cognitive and neural systems including memory (long-term and working memory).

Apologies to all.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on January 12, 2022, 06:37:21 AM
I use Rufus to reformat USB sticks. I experienced that I had used a stick to install Ubuntu and when I reformatted it I could use it on OS 9 and XP but not Windows 10. Ubuntu made a read-only partition on my stick. After I used Rufus I could use the stick on Windows 10.

A simple way to format a large FAT32 stick is that you format it as NTFS and then you insert it in your OS 9 computer. Then you can choose DOS format.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on February 27, 2022, 09:03:43 AM
Here’s MacDrive Pro 10 for Windows 7 or better, x64 only and ENGLISH only.
https://igetintopc.com/mediafour-macdrive-pro-10-free-download/
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: teroyk on March 01, 2022, 01:51:13 PM
Or use Virtual PC capture USB-device option on Mac OS 9.
It is slow with USB1.1, but works just drag and drop from Mac OS 9 desktop to Win XP sp2 (in Virtual PC).
You can use NTFS or exFAT in USB-stick or USB-HD.
exFAT needs install little update for XP:
https://archive.org/details/windows-xp-exfat-driver-kb955704-x86

And yes...I still looking for Virtual PC with Red Hat Linux CD-ROM to do same thing with EXT2 or (all !) another filesystems.

EDIT: of course you can use FAT32 too, but it is so limited.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: DieHard on March 02, 2022, 09:17:29 AM
Here’s MacDrive Pro 10 for Windows 7 or better, x64 only and ENGLISH only.
https://igetintopc.com/mediafour-macdrive-pro-10-free-download/

WARNING - This looks like malware to me, a DMG file that looks like a fake flash install, please prove me wrong
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on March 02, 2022, 11:05:18 AM
It’s a RAR file. It contains the installer for Windows and a cracked exe and a few text files.
Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: DieHard on March 02, 2022, 02:50:28 PM
Can you please actually download and test it.

I am on a mac and this is the download, so I am guessing the download using a PC is also tainted...?!

When downloading from a mac browser this is total scam


Title: Re: Storage, backup, and talking to PCs and the Outside World
Post by: OS923 on March 04, 2022, 08:34:14 AM
Oops.