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51
Storage Technologies / Re: Is PCI card based hosted SCSI RAID a thing for MacOS?
« Last post by ivanshpak on November 24, 2022, 02:11:36 PM »
Thanks for the clarification regarding OS 9 RAID booting. It makes sense as to why.

If there’s no hardware RAID on the OS 9 side, I think I’ll just stick with the single SCSI Atlas.

For your setup, are you using a dedicated OS 9 boot and application drive for your production software, and then using your RAID array as a dedicated “tape” for recording with the lowest latency possible?

In Pro Tools, I use one external HDD (Glyph, with Seagate Cheetah 15k) to record audio

The internal RAID-0 back-up copies of the retrospect, and the library of audio samples and other audio archive

In the end, I realized that Pro Tools works more stable with one SCSI HDD

I also want to say that SCSI are fast HDD, it is very difficult to separate SSD from a 15k SCSI HDD of the latest generations in real operation, even with a decrease in speed to Ultra160

Of course, in synthetic tests, SATA SSD is faster, but in real life everything is much more interesting.

SCSI is not a panacea and I do not persuade anyone to use it, I just bought a huge amount of these HDD in my time and just use them for their intended purpose
52
With that said, I wonder when Mac OS began using the user mode. When I did most of my hackery in System 7.5.5, it was in supervisor mode all of the time.

Mac OS never been running in supervisor mode on either PPC or 68k, 68k MacOS did however have a toolbox trap that allowed you to enter supervisor mode.
On PPC macos there never was any documented way to enter supervisor mode.
53
After a bit memory juggling I recalled that the old BootX bootloader used this trick (and obviously another as well, the latter I never tested myself- the 68k emulator way I've tested on both PCI and Nubus macs however).

See file EnterPPCSupervisor.c in either of the source packages here.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/nubus-pmac/files/BootX%20boot%20loader/
54
Storage Technologies / Re: Is PCI card based hosted SCSI RAID a thing for MacOS?
« Last post by aroneox on November 24, 2022, 01:23:33 PM »
Thanks for the clarification regarding OS 9 RAID booting. It makes sense as to why.

If there’s no hardware RAID on the OS 9 side, I think I’ll just stick with the single SCSI Atlas.

For your setup, are you using a dedicated OS 9 boot and application drive for your production software, and then using your RAID array as a dedicated “tape” for recording with the lowest latency possible?
55
Storage Technologies / Re: Is PCI card based hosted SCSI RAID a thing for MacOS?
« Last post by ivanshpak on November 24, 2022, 10:46:52 AM »
Appreciate the reply. Very nice setups!

To clarify, can my ATTO ExpressPCI PSC pictured do a RAID setup?

And if it does happen to be YES it can do RAID, would it be bootable from that card into both OS 9 and OS X 10.4 Tiger?

I am unsure how SCSI implements its RAID configurations. Looking over your setups, the 4x RAID looks like it just runs on a single SCSI cable. But the 2x RAID, I see two separate cables. It is my understanding that while SCSI RAID can run multiple drives off a single cable (single-channel), only one drive can talk at a time. With a two separate cables on a dual-channel, assuming a 2x drive RAID setup, then each of the drives potentially has full saturation available from the controller (discounting other limitations such as bus speed, etc.). Correct?

Does my G4 Gigabit, with it 33mhz PCI bus, even have a chance of needing a dual-channel setup considering that low bus speed?

Considering that, would it benefit from the UL3D card (let alone a ULD4)?

And looking over eBay, UL3D cards look to be PCI-X. Can PCI-X cards be used in my G4 Gigabit with basic, boring PCI slots?

There is no hardware Raid solution for OS 9.

All software solutions
SoftRaid utility for OS9
Express Stripe ATTO for OS9 and OS-X
Apple Raid Utility for OS-X

My setups
ATTO UL4D in OS-X (Tiger|Leopard) 4 HDD in two channels (Raid-0) Apple Raid Utility (speed up to 190 Mb/s)—Realizes the full potential of the 64bit PCI Bus

ATTO UL3D in OS9 2 HDD one channel (Raid-0) ATTO Express Stripe (speed up to 90mb/s)


Important, you will never be able to boot into OS9 from a software raid.
56
Storage Technologies / Re: Is PCI card based hosted SCSI RAID a thing for MacOS?
« Last post by aroneox on November 24, 2022, 10:01:15 AM »
Appreciate the reply. Very nice setups!

To clarify, can my ATTO ExpressPCI PSC pictured do a RAID setup?

And if it does happen to be YES it can do RAID, would it be bootable from that card into both OS 9 and OS X 10.4 Tiger?

I am unsure how SCSI implements its RAID configurations. Looking over your setups, the 4x RAID looks like it just runs on a single SCSI cable. But the 2x RAID, I see two separate cables. It is my understanding that while SCSI RAID can run multiple drives off a single cable (single-channel), only one drive can talk at a time. With a two separate cables on a dual-channel, assuming a 2x drive RAID setup, then each of the drives potentially has full saturation available from the controller (discounting other limitations such as bus speed, etc.). Correct?

Does my G4 Gigabit, with it 33mhz PCI bus, even have a chance of needing a dual-channel setup considering that low bus speed?

Considering that, would it benefit from the UL3D card (let alone a ULD4)?

And looking over eBay, UL3D cards look to be PCI-X. Can PCI-X cards be used in my G4 Gigabit with basic, boring PCI slots?
57
If I remember correctly there is a ”backdoor” in the 68k emulator that allows you to enter/exit ppc supervisor mode; I don’t remember the details but as far as I remember you loaded some constants like Gary or similar (suppose it’s either designed by or an homage to Gary Davidian who made the first 68k emulator implementation).

Unfortunately I can’t find the example code when I attempt to google.
58
Storage Technologies / Re: List of SSDs that works with Mac Os 9
« Last post by IIO on November 24, 2022, 06:43:19 AM »
SATA disks are always "SCSI" in OS9 and "IDE" in OSX.

it might be unavoidable, but it often seems not very average-user friendly how apple OS is talking to us.

i already go mad when i am asking the OS version number via gestalt in max/msp. this mixture of hex, decimal and binary you get from gestalt is completely unneccesary.

and whoever´s fault this is, but it is not ideal that some PCI cards simply show as "unknown" in the profiler app.
59
General Hardware Discussions / Re: OS 9 once worked and now doesn't?
« Last post by FBz on November 24, 2022, 06:33:03 AM »
Download and use one of the following (instead of the Universal installer)
from: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/board,33.0.html



Drive Setup 1.92 and Drive Setup 2.1 are both present. Use DS 2.1 to format, partition and install OS 9
on your SSD and DS 1.9.2 for FW drives.

BUT FIRST… if the machine was working fine until recently, you might run AHT (or AppleCare TechTool Diagnostics)
to see if you’ve some other problem that caused the machine to falter in the first place?

AND there is also an iMac G4 2002 (Flat Panel) Restore download available here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5907.0.html
60
Storage Technologies / Re: List of SSDs that works with Mac Os 9
« Last post by ivanshpak on November 24, 2022, 03:32:29 AM »
New discovery--just installed 9.2.2 and a few apps on a TeamForce 1TB SSD connected to the Sonnet Tempo PCI SATA card on my 2002 G4 Dual 1.0 GHz.  Drive Setup saw it, partitioned it, and installed the OS.

OS9 sees it as SCSI Bus 0, just so you are aware when you have other SCSI devices. . . . .

By the way, SCSI Bus 0 in this case concerns only a specific controller, other SCSI devices on another PCI bus can also be with SCSI bus 0
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