Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Mac OS 9, Hacks & Upgrades => Topic started by: Tugboat on February 28, 2018, 08:11:29 PM
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I am unable to install OS 9.2.2 on my Power Mac G4 (Quicksilver 2002). The CPU was originally rated at 800Mhz but years ago I installed a Sonnet Encore/ST G4 1.7, with the firmware change, etc. Everything worked fine but I eventually moved on to the latest and greatest and now wish to revisit OS 9, but I can't. I have OS X 10.4.11 on one of my two hard drive partitions, OS 9.1 on another to run Classic and, until recently I had the 2013 version of the universal installer for OS 9.2.2 ("The Well Tempered Mac OS") on a separate hard drive. But that OS would not sleep, telling me there were system parts I had not installed, and the Appearance control panel would not work. So, I resolved to finally sort it out but, notwithstanding closely following the instructions here, every version of OS 9.2.2 I install locks up late in the boot process, even with extensions disabled (and yes I always select the box to install OS 9 hard disk drivers). I don't think it is an issue with the Sonnet upgrade as I can see 1.67 GHZ in the Apple System Profiler on the Classic side and in OS 10.4.11. I have the original install disks and get the same unsatisfactory results. What am I missing? Thank you very much in advance.
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https://www.macintoshrepository.org/919-mac-os-power-mac-g4-quicksilver-2002-complete-restore-disc-set
you can always do a fresh restore if you are able to download + burn some cds
or if these are the "original install disks" that you arleady have, then u are all set.
all you need to do is a restore, to a fresh partition/disk
i think its under 10gb?
you will end up with osx 10.2 + os 9.22 on the same partition i think
then you would be free to trash either one
personally id trash 10.2 jaguar + keep os9 ;)
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I just tried that and it too froze, albeit in a different way (different splash screen that locked up). Which makes me think the Sonnet card might have something to do with it. I really love this computer and would be only too happy to run it as an OS 9 machine but I just can't get there.
Thank you.
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Did you install the OS 9.2.2 (that wouldn’t sleep), on the separate HD after the Sonnet was already present?
Do you still have the original QS 800 MHz processor to swap back in and then attempt OS reinstall from your original install disks?
Quicksilver’s have cable select feature like MDDs? Or, must drives be set to slave/master settings?
Before yanking the Sonnet, you might try disconnecting your 10.4.11 drive and setting your target OS 9.2.2 drive to master (if necessary), and then try to boot OS 9.2.2 with that one drive absent. If you encounter the same lock-up when trying to boot OS 9.2.2… then you might try taking it all back to square one and replace the Sonnet with the original QS processor, and then either attempt to reinstall from your original disks OR… install only OS 9.2.2 on that solo drive.
Afterwards, (if you can get OS 9.2.2 to boot), then put the 10.4.11 drive back into the mix and see if they “play nice”. AND of course, back up everything that you might need… if you do the complete “back to square one” reinstall on your (now), 10.4.11 drive.
Have you pulled all unnecessary cards and peripherals from the mix and disconnected down to just the bare bones?
There’s my two cents. Someone else may now give you better, simpler options to try.
*Lately, I’ve converted to the “option-key” boot startup, with the install disk in the drive.
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Thanks much. Will pursue in the morning.
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I'm confused as to exactly what OS9 system you're trying to run.
Check and make sure that the Boot ROM version is 4.28 - any other version will fail to boot.
Trouble is, unless you have another OS9-capable computer, I don't know how you're going to actually check this.
Again to clarify…are you saying the computer boots and runs fine in OSX? That would mean the firmware patch IS working and the issue must be with whatever OS9 you're trying.
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You have to run the sonnet installer twice and you may have lost the firmware patch if your battery is gone. Pt5 has mentioned that before.
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the Apple cPU pluging for sonnet http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3795.msg25349.html#msg25349
My experience and notes : http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3795.msg29126.html#msg29126
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You have to run the sonnet installer twice and you may have lost the firmware patch if your battery is gone. Pt5 has mentioned that before.
That is right devil, if you run it twice (The sonnet cache enabler) you can ruin your system. it happenend to me.
Also, it seems that tiger and leopard do not want to boot OSX without the sonnet kext. Panther can (slowly) and from there you can install the pkg over any drive/system.
I could boot to 9 taking off the "Apple" Apple CPU plug and its folder "multiprocessing", but protools PCI do not want to run in that scenario. With the sonnet Apple CPU pluging I could hear the voice of 9 saying: "It is not my fault:something is broken" and the resolution from OSX is not recovered and the monitors go to some strange resolution that my 1280x1024 lcd monitor cant handle.
Conclusion: I gave up again with Mac OS 9 on that machine. Maybe with a CRT I could get to desktop.
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Interim update. Yes OS X runs fine. Also, I have a working Lombard with OS 9 on it. How can I use the Lombard to check the boot rom on the Quicksilver? Thank you so much for your comments.
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i had problems when i overclocked my cpu in my B+W g3 450 ..
clocking to 500mhz ruined my ability to install osx i think? i remember i had to put the jumpers back to 450 to get it to behave properly - also ive seen alot of disclaimers regarding 3rd party cpu providers - what company was it that said they dont support any cpu upgrades at all? digidesign? i cant remember
is it possible that openfirmware is checking the current state of the cpu? tied into some type
of scripted debug/init ?
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Interim update. Yes OS X runs fine. Also, I have a working Lombard with OS 9 on it.
How can I use the Lombard to check the boot rom on the Quicksilver?
Thank you so much for your comments.
Maybe… with Quicksilver booted in Firewire Target Disk mode (connected to the Lombard),
you could “get info” from the Quicksilver as to the ROM version present on the QS?
OR, you could possibly install OS 9.2.2 to the QS (from the Lombard to the QS), in FW TDM?
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Duhh. Note to self: No Firewire on the G3 Lombard!
Yes, had to go downstairs and check.
Maybe a network install via X-over cable?
(Lombard) "PowerBook G3 does not have wireless capability installed,
you generally can just use a simple crossover cable, or Ethernet cables
and a hub, to connect another Mac." -EveryMac.com
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are u still not up + running????
there seems to be some kind of disconnect here.. im failing to understand whats so complicated?
its pretty simple:
1> aquire the quicksilver 2002 restore cds if you dont possess them already
2> boot from cd1 of the quicksilver 2002 restore cds
3> follow restore procedure + swap cds untill the restore completes
4> (the computer will automatically reboot or promt you to)
5> once u are booted up in osx ;launch system preferences and select "system folder" as your startup folder (yes u can select a startup FOLDER aswell as a startup DISK in 9.22)
6> reboot into the exact 9.22 installation that your machine was shipped with originally and ENJOY!
there are actually 5 disks + 2 other disks in the restore cd set (total of 7 discs)
cd version 1.0 691-3625A
Software Restore 1 of 5
Software Restore 2 of 5
Software Restore 3 of 5
Software Restore 4 of 5
Software Restore 5 of 5
then theres two other cds, one is a mac os x installation cd (for installing osX v10.1.3 seperately from 9, cd version 1.1 2Z691-3632-A)
and the other is an applications cd (Cd version 1.4.1)
you only need the first 5 discs
if u cant even get thru the basic restore process (which is basically just an Apple Software Restore copying files from a cd to a new partition)
it might be the case that you need to reinstall a genuine apple g4 cpu
like i said earlier in the thread that has been known to happen.
this is why some people dont mess around with 3rd cpu upgrades
and software companies say they dont support the 3rd party cpus.
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Computer froze up on Software Restore 1 of 5 CD but will try again tonight. Am hoping to avoid having to locate another genuine CPU for this model as I lost the original in an office move years ago.
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i hear ya but this is why i would always keep the original CPU if possible
just like keeping the original video card can be helpful aswell.. to do a full system restore from the original software shipped with the machine + restore the original hardware components is (in my opinion) the best bet for a stable system...
but really what we are talking about is simply getting all the right drivers for your hardware + eliminating possibility of any hardware defects (dead drives, bad ram) or out-of-spec hardware (wrong type of ram etc)
anyway its my approach from now on, some might not agree but it works for me;)
i had to do the same thing on my g3 a few years ago, when i overclocked it, it was only a 50Mhz oc from 450-500 but i had to take it back to 450 before i could get ASR to complete it was a pain in the neck!
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I have an idea. Humor me here, it won't take long and it just might fix your problem.
I too, have a Sonnet - different model, different unit (MDD) BUT
There seems to be a common issue that often causes trouble with these in OS9
My MDD refused to boot in OS9 until i was given this file to replace the one that was native to OS 9.2.2
It appears - on the surface at least - to be nothing more than a standard "Apple CPU Plugins" file although an earlier version than the one I had.
All I know is that when installed in place of the other one, suddenly my computer started booting OS9 with no trouble.
I suspect that the CPUP resource has been altered to include code or CPU model #s not in the original.
Give it a shot. It can't hurt anything and you can always put the original back.
The only issue is: To send it intact, I've Stuffed it.
Since you can't boot OS9, you'll have to unstuff it in OSX and then drag it into your OS9 System.
This will require you to have a UnStuffit-capable app in OSX - Mac Archive Utility will NOT work, so…
I'm including a copy of "The Unarchiver" which will work in OSX.
I had to use the built-in Mac Archiver to make it small enough to attach here.
You can also download it at: https://the-unarchiver.en.softonic.com/mac
Unzip the app, use it to Unstuff the file then replace the one that's in OS9 System Folder/Extensions.
If the System has a Multiprocessing Folder with another "CPU Plugins" file in it, remove that too.
Put the original(s) anywhere outside of the System folder temporarily.
Then…
Cross your fingers and toes and give it a shot.
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Thank you very much. I will try this tonight and report back.
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just trying to see which exact cpu upgrade it is that you have?
theres a page on everymac:
https://everymac.com/upgrade_cards/sonnettech/encore_g4/encore_st_g4_1.7.html
but on the sonnet website (archived)
it doesnt show a 1.7? only 1600 + 1800 mhz?
https://web.archive.org/web/20070224211650/http://www.sonnettech.com:80/product/encore_stg4.html
ok here it is on their site in 2005 - i guess they removed it later on (due to lack of availability for purchase probably??)
https://web.archive.org/web/20050205163240/http://www.sonnettech.com:80/product/encore_stg4.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20070204105354/http://www.sonnettech.com:80/downloads/proc_upgrds_sw.html
this page has, (although not very clearly as it begins with "Crescendo" in the title)
downloads for software related to the Encore ST
see the title "Crescendo/Encore™ Software"
Posted: January 3, 2007
Version 2.3.1 adds support for additional Power Mac G4 ROMs, and adds full support for correct processor speed reporting under Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X for Encore/ST G4 upgrades.
http://www.sonnettech.com/downloads/software/ce_install_v231.hqx
looks like this working download link might be what u might need?
isnt this where people would use a ! or _ character to rename the extension to force it to load first?
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An update. Gary, thank you for your thorough post. I followed your instructions, as well as the earlier links to discussions on the subject, but ended up with the same outcome - OS 9 locking up just before the finish line. I then used extension manager to prepare a minimal set of control panels and extensions thinking that that might do the trick. It did not. In between I ran the Sonnet patch installer a couple of times on the OS 9 hard drive only to be told that the patch was already installed. Somewhere in there, or before, Fury deBongo mentioned that he had an original CPU that I could use to reinstall everything from scratch (I lost my original CPU in an earlier office move). I took him up on his kind offer, and that will be my next step, along with another update. In the meantime I can not express how grateful I am for the knowledgeable advice I have received here.
Someone I worked with a long time ago used to have a sticky on his computer (an SE/30 at that) the following slogan, which I was reminded of during this effort, "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
More to follow.
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Well, it was worth a try. It may be time to "start over".
I am unable to install OS 9.2.2 on my Power Mac G4 (Quicksilver 2002). The CPU was originally rated at 800Mhz but years ago I installed a Sonnet Encore/ST G4 1.7, with the firmware change, etc. Everything worked fine but I eventually moved on to the latest and greatest and now wish to revisit OS 9, but I can't. I have OS X 10.4.11 on one of my two hard drive partitions, OS 9.1 on another to run Classic and, until recently I had the 2013 version of the universal installer for OS 9.2.2 ("The Well Tempered Mac OS") on a separate hard drive. But that OS would not sleep, telling me there were system parts I had not installed, and the Appearance control panel would not work. So, I resolved to finally sort it out but, notwithstanding closely following the instructions here, every version of OS 9.2.2 I install locks up late in the boot process, even with extensions disabled (and yes I always select the box to install OS 9 hard disk drivers). I don't think it is an issue with the Sonnet upgrade as I can see 1.67 GHZ in the Apple System Profiler on the Classic side and in OS 10.4.11. I have the original install disks and get the same unsatisfactory results. What am I missing? Thank you very much in advance.
Points
Everything worked fine …This is important
every version of OS 9.2.2 I install locks up late in the boot process, even with extensions disabled …So where is the original OS that DID work? Can you put it back? Does it no longer work?
I don't think it is an issue with the Sonnet upgrade …Know what? I don't think it is either.
So why are we all convinced it's a Sonnet issue and we're all trying to cure it based on that?
• The computer runs fine in OSX.
• The Sonnet patch shows as installed in OS9 - must be or OSX wouldn't work.
Maybe you ought to try this:
1) in OSX, clear your 9.1 "Classic" partition. You don't need OS9 on a separate partition to run Classic anyway.
2) In OSX, grab a copy of 9.2.2 from here as an image or from a CD but not an uninstalled one. I mean a "finished" OS9 install with the System Folder and such the way it looks after installation.
3) Drag copy all of that to the empty partition.
4) "Bless" the System by dragging the System file and the Finder out of the System folder onto the desktop, then returning them to the System folder.
5) Option-restart and see if it shows up as a boot-able system.
****Very Important! It occurs to me: You probably shouldn't have more than one OS9 System and Finder on the computer (yes I know that's not absolutely true under normal circumstances, but something's not right here and all possible potential problem stuff should be eliminated if possible)
And yes, this is guesswork, but it's a mysterious problem and all you can get over the internet are educated guesses from people who aren't there and can't see everything involved. I really think the Sonnet is NOT the problem.
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Computer froze up on Software Restore 1 of 5 CD but will try again tonight. Am hoping to avoid having to locate another genuine CPU for this model as I lost the original in an office move years ago.
breaking this down logically, the system freezing could be related to:
RAM, HD, OPTICAL DRIVE or CPU
OPTICAL DRIVE:
which type of CD-R/DVD-R media are u using to burn the restore cds?
are u using DVD+R? or DVD-R? it makes a difference
if u have original disks they should read fine in the optical drive..
unless the optical drive is not functioning properly
have u tried replacing the optical drive?
MEMORY:
have u tried pulling all ram sticks except one?
HARD DISK:
have u tried with different hard disk?
CPU:
we know u cant replace the original cpu..
that would be my first suggestion but because u cant do that the only other action i can suggest would be to try these different versions of cpu support extensions
its important to note that theres two versions of it on the page; heres the link again:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070204105354/http://www.sonnettech.com:80/downloads/proc_upgrds_sw.html
its a system extension
which means u have to drag it to your "system folder"/extensions folder
if you are doing this in macos9 dragging to system folder is enough as it intelligently will place it in the extensions folder for you but if u are doing it from osx then u have to place it in the correct spot on your own
two different versions to try
v3.0 (from 2007)
+ v2.3.1 (from 2005)
try using these extensions to boot into a fresh 9 partition
the extension makes your system see the cpu as operating properly "within spec"
as far as i understand should stop it from freezing
but like i said before; u have to make sure that this specific extension
(either v3.0 or v2.3.1) is placed in the correct extensions folder; and is enabled; and LOADS BEFORE OTHER EXTENSIONS by renaming it something that comes early in the alphabet
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Thank you Gary and macStuff. Another frustrating day that makes me think it is the Sonnet processor. I installed one of the disk images from here, "The Well Tempered Mac OS (2013)" on an external firewire disk. The system was missing applications and a lot of control panels and extensions, which I added (in OS 9) from one of the previous installs and then cleaned out all of the other OS 9 installs as Gary suggested. That worked for a bit (once) but then, before I could use it to install Mac OS 9 on the hard drive, it began to lock up (desktop would show but mouse would be frozen). Even before that I would get the message, when I tried to put it to sleep, that I needed to install another system. Also, for what it is worth, I could see that the system was "blessed" during all of this. Before giving up for the night I tried to start up from Software Restore CD 1 of 5 of the CDs that came when I bought the computer new in 2002 thinking it would bypass any of the mischief from subsequent OS installs but ended up at the same place - system locking up before the boot sequence concluded.
Tomorrow I will work through macStuff's list. On that note, the optical drive is the original Apple drive that came with the computer. I will check the memory and try with a different hard disk. Lastly, I have been using version 2.3.1 of the Sonnet software but will try 3.0 tomorrow.
Thank you very much for your help.
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En route mañana. (Unless waved-off.)
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i noticed the download link is dead on webarchive so i found this:
https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/25135/sonnet-processor#
i think this is a newer version?
v3.1?
file is dated may 2007
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Thank you. And Fury, please send when convenient. Much appreciated.
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Yo Tugboat!
So I was just thinking (dangerous, I know). You say you "installed the Sonnet software" more than once.
But each time you try to start OS9 it freezes right at startup.
There is a common cause for this.
Are you certain that:
A: The Sonnet OS9 Upgrade Extension actually installed in the Extensions folder, and
B: It has a space as the leading character in the name so that it loads first?
There are not many reasons for it to work perfectly in OSX and not OS9, but this is probably the most likely one.
I'm attaching a copy of mine just in case. Mine is from the MDX Duet but I have a hunch there's only one for all the Sonnets.
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Thank you Gary. Will try out tonight.
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Well, phooey. More attempts but still no success. Using first the updated Sonnet extension Gary provided (version 3.1) and then the version I received with the Sonnet originally (version 2.3.1) (and even both at the same time once by accident) I added a space to the file name to get it to load first. Oddly enough, the Open Transport extension was loading first so I moved that into the disabled extensions folder and restarted again. Each time the little Sonnet icon loaded first and then, as always happens, the machine froze right after the File Exchange control panel loaded. In frustration, I disabled the Sonnet extension to see what would happen. Same result, a freeze up right after the File Exchange control panel loaded. Lastly, I disabled the File Exchange control panel but the machine still froze around the same time, apparently on whatever extension or control panel comes next.
More to follow I am sure. Your support is greatly appreciated.
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Lastly, I disabled the File Exchange control panel but the machine still froze around the same time, apparently on whatever extension or control panel comes next.
Ok. Although it may not seem so, this is progress. Every time you report back about the goings-on, another little bit of information comes through. I now suspect you're in the middle of a classic extension conflict - OR a defective extension.
Some observations: On Mar 2, you referred to using extensions Manager to try different startup combinations. So, I take it you were invoking Ext Mgr at startup by holding the spacebar. Extensions Manager is an app and the fact that it works says your problem is probably NOT the Sonnet.
You need to find out "whatever control panel or extension comes next".
I suggest your next step might be to download "Conflict Catcher" from Mac Garden. All signs are pointing to either a defective extension or a serious conflict and that's the old long-time standard for finding that shit before you lose your mind. That's what I'd do and that's the best advice I have.
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Ha! Thank you Gary. Your logic confirms my suspicions and I remember the old days of using Conflict Catcher to sort these sorts of things out. Forward into the breach tomorrow night. I will report back.
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Progress at last! Gary you were right about it being a defective extension or extension conflict. This evening when I returned from work I removed all of the control panels and extensions (save for the Sonnet extension) and booted it up with just the system folder, finder and ROM, and it booted right up! I have since added the necessary extensions and control panels back in and now have a working OS 9.2.2. The only niggling detail is the fact that still when I try to put it to sleep I get that annoying message that I have not installed the necessary system files. But I will worry about that over the weekend. For now I am happy. Thank you all.
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This is what happens with the passage of time. Back in the day this would have been the first suspect and you would have hit it immediately.
Well thank the spirit of Jobs it's working now. I hope you didn't lose track of exactly what WAS in there vs. what IS in there now. If there's no obvious culprit, there may be a defective one - but at least it will probably be easier to find if shit happens again.
Meanwhile, not to be too depressing, but for the record, my MDD currently won't sleep in OS9 either. It used to, then got flakey, then stopped, started and stopped again. They say almost anything can cause it - USB accessories, GPU cards, anything. I think it's just 9.2.2, but who knows?
I know of no Macintosh error message that says "won't sleep because you have not installed the necessary system files". But hey, what else were you going to do this weekend?
Glad it's finally working!
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I have an idea. Humor me here, it won't take long and it just might fix your problem.
I too, have a Sonnet - different model, different unit (MDD) BUT
There seems to be a common issue that often causes trouble with these in OS9
My MDD refused to boot in OS9 until i was given this file to replace the one that was native to OS 9.2.2
It appears - on the surface at least - to be nothing more than a standard "Apple CPU Plugins" file although an earlier version than the one I had.
All I know is that when installed in place of the other one, suddenly my computer started booting OS9 with no trouble.
I suspect that the CPUP resource has been altered to include code or CPU model #s not in the original.
Give it a shot. It can't hurt anything and you can always put the original back.
The only issue is: To send it intact, I've Stuffed it.
Since you can't boot OS9, you'll have to unstuff it in OSX and then drag it into your OS9 System.
This will require you to have a UnStuffit-capable app in OSX - Mac Archive Utility will NOT work, so…
I'm including a copy of "The Unarchiver" which will work in OSX.
I had to use the built-in Mac Archiver to make it small enough to attach here.
You can also download it at: https://the-unarchiver.en.softonic.com/mac
Unzip the app, use it to Unstuff the file then replace the one that's in OS9 System Folder/Extensions.
If the System has a Multiprocessing Folder with another "CPU Plugins" file in it, remove that too.
Put the original(s) anywhere outside of the System folder temporarily.
Then…
Cross your fingers and toes and give it a shot.
Thank you so much! IT WORKS! Best wishes!
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people helpin people - its a beautiful thing 8)