searching for rare hard to find install/restore of mac os 8.6 for AGP sawtooth

[supernova777]

i think the drive not mounting might be related to the actual drive itself.. not being compatible.
im trying to find some older 3.5" lacie enclosure.. or something else that actually lists compatibility with 8.6

[supernova777]

for those who are interested - my WD passport 500gb firewire drive mounts perfectly fine now that i updated the os of my sawtooth to mac os 9.1
not sure if its because of the os version itself, or if its the firewire extensions v2.7 that are enabling this...

i wonder if transplanting those firewire 2.7 extensions into an os9.0/9.0.2/9.04 or os8.6 install would also enable the drive
back to perfect functioning status.

***success
the extensions enable firewire working on the sawtooth for os8.6 aswell

[Protools5LEGuy]

i wonder if transplanting those firewire 2.7 extensions into an os9.0/9.0.2/9.04 or os8.6 install would also enable the drive
back to perfect functioning status.

***success
the extensions enable firewire working on the sawtooth for os8.6 aswell

Now you are ready for : http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1011.0   

Let's see where this all carry us. I hope a better OS for G3 DAWs

Offtopic: If a 8.6 system folder is replaced with some/most/all 9.2.2 extensions/panels, should we still call it a 8.6 install? It should be called a

G3 OS8.6 9.2.2 Mixed SUNRISE system

if we let some "pure" 8.6 to work instead the moderns ones.

We have to look carefully the work of a Rage 128 GL (Classic G3 B&W graphics) with 8.6 vs 9.2.2´s MDD drag´n´drop on G3 systems. It is the only place (you mentioned troubles with radeon on 8.6) where there should be a difference that 1kwindows workbench finally will bust the myth. Rage 128 was a card included in G3s and almost all the G4s with the Digital Audio included. That time covers 8.5.1-9.1 age.

First G3 with ATI Rage 128 GL http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g3/specs/powermac_g3_300_bl.html

Last G4 with ATI Rage 128 Pro http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_466.html

[Protools5LEGuy]

I beg you to read the sunrise report.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1011.0

You seem to be trying to test if they were wrong, and all your last month post are about you refusing to read it.   

THE OS8.6/9.x HYBRID SYSTEM

    Load up a backup copy of MacOS8.6 System Folder onto the hard disk. If you don't have the luxury of MacOS8.6 on a backup disk, find someone who can give you a copy of MacOS8.5 and use the free MacOS8.6 Update to bring it up to date for your particular machine. You should be able to get this free 59MB update file directly from the Apple web site.
    Now update almost all the extensions and control panels of OS8.6 from OS9.0.4-OS9.2.2 (except for those that are clearly designed for OS9 and a handful of other files which don't work well for G3 systems, such as the ATI Graphic Accelerator, AppleScript and a few others).

    NOTE: You can use the Tome Viewer 1.3d utility to extract the files Mac OS ROM file version 8.4, file sharing extension 7.6.7, and Standard Addition OSAX. Replace the MacOS9.2.2 versions of these files with the older ones.
    You can update almost all the OS8.6 extensions and control panels with the OS9.2.2 version barring the following:

    (i) Mouse and Apple Menu Options control panels of OS9 create errors on startup (e.g. code fragment error). Keep to the OS8.6 versions.

    (ii) AppleScript 1.8.3 does not load up. Stick with OS8.6 version and make sure Standard Additions in the Scripting Additions folder of the System Folder is version 1.3.7.

    (iii) ATI extensions from OS9.2.2 are okay except the ATI Graphic Accelerator really sucks. Stick to OS8.6 of the ATI Graphic Accelerator extension or try the ATI extension version from OS9.0.4.

    (iv) Don't use Foreign File Access extension version 5.3.3 of OS9 or you will not be able to play audio CDs. Stick with OS8.6 version.

    (v) Speech 2.0.2 control panel may have trouble launching on your computer under OS8.6. Stick to version 1.5.3.

    (vi) FontSync control panel and FontSync Extension does not work under OS8.6.

    (vii) Keychain Access control panel and associated extensions don't work under OS8.6.

    (viii) Software Update control panel and associated extensions (i.e. Software Update Engine and Software Update Scheduler) requires OS9. Remove for OS8.6.

    (ix) Sherlock 2 of OS9 does not appear to work under OS9. Stick with the original Sherlock of OS8.6.

    (x) Don't use the OS9 versions of File Sharing 9.0.2, General Controls 8.0.2, Internet 1.0.2, Memory 8.1.3, Monitors 8.6.4, Mouse 8.1.1, Multiple Users 1.4.1, Sound 8.5.8, and USB Printer Sharing 1.0.2 control panels under OS8.6. They require specialist OS9 subroutines to work.

    (xi) Stick to the original File Sharing Extension and File Sharing Library of MacOS 8.6. The latest MacOS 9.2.2 file sharing extensions do work but keeps showing a message suggesting file sharing is not enabled even though it is being enabled.
    Replace SimpleText 1.4 as the resources may have been corrupted under OS9. Otherwise, if it loads up okay under OS8.6, then use it.
    Use an older version of Iomega Guest tool and extension than 6.x. It will be more stable and loads up much faster when you downgrade.
    Be careful which third-party extensions and control panels you are running under this hybrid system. For example, a control panel combination of MC Font Menu by Bernie Zenis, Mac Unicorn software's Turbo Internet 2.1 and ApplWindows by Hiro Yamamoto may create problems for each other and possibly other third-party applications and some Apple software (e.g. NotePad) under OS8.6 or vice versa. Applications may show an error during quitting or suddenly hang when accessing a menu command (e.g. alarm call by Tristan Perich). Or probably alarm call is more unstable. Either way, try to launch all your essential applications (especially the older ones), see if the applications are behaving properly, and quit them. Any unusual behaviour can be traced usually to a third-party extension or control panel that you thought was okay under OS9 but may not be stable under the OS8.6/9 hybrid system software.
    Do not install the latest Shared Library Manager 2.0.2 or Shared Library Manager PPC 2.0.2 from OS9.2.1. Stay with Shared Library Manager 2.0.1 and Shared Library Manager PPC 2.0.1 from OS8.6. Otherwise some older applications such as Aldus Persuasion 2.1 may experience unexpected crashes (although this idea is still being tested).
    The OS9 version of the Finder file cannot be used to replace the OS8.6 Finder while running the OS8.6 System file. Why? Apple Computer, Inc. has decided to separate the DesktopItemsLib from older versions of Finder and place it inside either the System Resources or System file of OS9, thereby forcing customers to pay for an upgrade to OS9.
    Stick with the ATI extensions of MacOS8.6. If you use the latest ATI extensions (especially the ATI Graphic Accelerator), certain older applications such as FileMaker Pro 3.0 will experience a problem — namely, the inability to draw the interfaces of the application using the latest ATI extension (version 5.x) leading to unexpected quits and freezes. This problem appears to be virtually non-existent using the older ATI extension (version 3.8.9 or 4.9.4).

[MacTron]

I always have *mixed* systems. My Mac Os 9 system folder is based on System and Finder from 9.2.2, Mac Os ROM v 10.2.1 and the remaining components are from diverse sources (including Mac Os 8.6) all those components were selected over the years.

My theory about System Folder components is to use the more updated components unless I have a good reason to use older versions. And this happen in some cases.

The Mac Os 8.6 I use in some machines is upgraded with a lot of components from 9.2.2 MDD (CPU 5.9)...

[supernova777]

these cards are exactly whats in my B&W,(the ati 128gl),  and Sawtooth(ati 128 pro DVI/VGA)

[supernova777]

im just reading the sunrise page shared by ProToolsLEGuy
http://www.sunrisepage.com/computers/macclassic/macos9.htm

A Mac OS ROM or System problem

Dropping a file on an application may not open the file in that application.

this is something ive wondered about for a very long time! i posted about this didnt i? and i was really surprised that NOONE responded..
i thought this was something to do with the desktop file needing to be rebuilt.
this problem happened to me when i cloned the hd of my mdd and put it on to my quicksilver...
i thought it was a problem to do with the clone!!!! this makes total sense

this text from the sunrise guy (or group? whoevers site this is?) semi-confirms my suspicion that having the wrong mac os rom for a machine
can have bad consequences.. perhaps some roms are written to be universal (like those on the retail or universal install cds) but roms coming
on machine specific installers (such as the 10.2.1 rom on our circulated "fresh drag install") may have bad effects on other older macs!!!!!

also from what ive read of whats hes written here,
hes saying that from os 9.1 going forward the goal of apple was not stability for older machines under os 9.2.2 but that he suspects that they were purposely
not supporting older hardware and removing tried + true rock solid stable support code for older g3s out of the os itself, focusing purely on the performance
of mac os 9 when used alongside mac os x.. and that compatibility with X was more their priority then stability + performance under the old mac os.

There is also another reason: to encourage users to upgrade to the latest software. With OS X just around the corner, there has to be an incentive to force people to upgrade. So why not leave a number of bugs in the latest OS 9?

this kind of makes sense to me too..!

there is alot to read on this page tho!! i remember when i saw this page first i was like wow this is crazy .. way too long.. thats why i didnt read it at first LOL

still reading all of this it makes me question the sanity of this sunrise guy just a bit.. the writing style is somewhat eratic.. and how hes chosen to relay this information
is a bit unorganized..... clearly this guy had no idea of how to use ASR otherwise why wouldnt he just post his own "Sunrise system" restore image? and take all the multi-stepped instructions out of the equation..

like take this for example:

THE PREFERRED SOLUTION FOR G3 SYSTEMS

The preferred solution to this OS9 problem is simply to install OS8.6 on your G3 computer (which is much more stable and highly recommended in our opinion as this is the best pre-OSX system ever made). This necessitates finding a copy of the MacOS8.6 folder because OS9 does not allow you to install an older OS version.

wtf? why reccomend this instead of formatting + reinstalling from a proper install source to a new partition?

[supernova777]

ok now..
this is what i dont get..
he already mentioned that it could be the mac os rom that caused the problems higher up on in the page
BUT HE GOES ON TO SUGGEST TAKING THE MAC OS ROM FROM AN UPDATER USING TOME VIEWER??
so hes using an improper mac os rom.. and then complaining about apple not fixing the problem
when, its his own fault for using the wrong rom in the first place.. + hes running os X on the same partiton.. *facepalm*

this guys fucking nuts *os9 stability* LOL  http://www.sunrisepage.com/aboutus.htm "MAking human knowledge stable + accessible to all" oooooooohkay buddy.. that makes no sense. LOL
"making human knowledge stable" LOL okkkkk wait.. what?? LOL

"let me totally fuck around with my os system version files.. and then complain to apple when it doesnt work right"
lol

OSX version 10.3.5 and OS9

Apple is now providing some updates to OS9.2.2 on a quiet level. But you will have to purchase OSX version 10.3.5 "Panther" or 10.4 "Tiger" to get the benefits (or better still, purchase a cheap second-hand Macintosh computer from someone else and it will almost certainly come with a free OSX installation CD burned on CD-R which is essential for every Macintosh). In version 10.3.5 of OSX, Apple has updated the AppleShare extension, the ATI extensions, Mac OS ROM, and the Classic Support system files for compatibility with the latest OSX, to name a few.

These updates do appear to make OS9 more stable for G4 systems (forget about G3 systems for the moment). There are only three problems remaining with OS9 following the latest updates: (i) Copying a file can cause intermittent hanging when starting or ending the copying process (still not resolved since OS9 was released); (ii) copying (or deleting) a large number of files (especially now that Adobe Acrobat Distiller 5 likes to create thousands of small text files during the distilling process and OSX applications can contain thousands of resource files) can cause the Finder to suddenly quit; and (iii) accessing the network with other OS9 machines can be quick initially, but very slow to pick up other machines in the Chooser afterwards if you have to remount servers. Usually it is quicker to restart the computer in order to reestablish network access.
Apple releases PowerBook Firmware Update for OS9.1 or higher

Apple has released a PowerBook Firmware 4.1.8 Update (988K) designed for laptops with in-built FireWire ports and running OS9.1 or higher. According to Apple's release notes:

    "Firmware Update 4.1.8 includes improvements to Firewire target disk mode, network booting, gigabit networking (on systems with gigabit hardware), and system stability."

We will be testing the system stability to see if this is true. Can't download the update? Click here.

UPDATE
21 January 2004

The firmware update has not solved the hanging problem when copying files. A new hard drive does not make a difference either. All we can say is that it never existed in OS8 or earlier. This is entirely unique to OS9. Apple has yet to permanently solve this issue.

its my opinion that all the problems hes describing were caused by his own doing of mixing + matching too many system components..
what a retard..
the mac os is not meant to be totally fucked with..even what ive done by fixing my firewire by transplanting the later firewire extensions.
software is very complicated + interconnected.. u dont know how interconnected it is untill u see a visible problem happen but these extensions could be interconnected to other subsystems i dont agree with this guys perspective of totally mixing + matching the systems.. fixing firewire mounting to a drive that was made after the release of the os is one thing (as i have done overwriting only 2 files) but the extent of it that he suggests is madness..

i dont think i will be following this SUNRISE crap..

Why the capitalised SUNRISE?

It is basically an acronym for Search for a UNified Religion in Information for Social Equality.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooook there buddy;)
i bet steve jobs + the people of apple were not impressed with this site. i think i saw these things about this page before
because i definately remember thinking this sunrise guy was batshit crazy.. now i remember why.

It does not matter if you believe in God or not. Simplifying knowledge will make you realise there is a way to see a grander pattern from which you can better understand all other patterns of life and the universe. Call this grander pattern what you will. All it matters is that it exists, and it is powerful. It is simply up to you find out for yourself what this grander pattern really is.

not hating - hes probably a nice guy - some of the coolest people on earth are nuts too;) maybe im nuts aswell for even reading this LOL

[supernova777]

forgetting the sunrise guy....
and back to real topics...

i think what he said about them being more concerned with X then stability of 9 does seem likely...
but when would this shift in thinking have happened?



checking the dates of mac os x first release as being "march 2001"
the last update before this release, was mac os 9.1

from the time of 9.2, they were more concerned with compatibility between the two os co-existing.. this seems likely..

9.1 January 9, 2001
10.0 March 24, 2001
9.2 June 18 2001
9.2.1 August 21 2001
9.2.2 December 5 2001
Funeral of Mac os 9 - May 6, 2002 (just 5 months after the last update)

but who knows... speculating is just speculating theres no way to know for sure.. but they must have known the plan to bury the os + declare it dead... this was a huge move man...no other company has ever done anything like that...
its a shame the source code + original developers couldnt have at least donated it to a non-profit company to keep it working
like how firefox is a nonprofit company..