Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Hardware => Topic started by: FBz on May 03, 2021, 06:29:05 PM
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Nomenclature?
Anyone decipher the difference between…
AS331 V1.5 and the MCA004 V1.3?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8610;image)
Testing IDE/SATA adapters for use in G4 Mac mini.
Both appear identical, otherwise.
The IDE44-SATA-FSB is yet to arrive here.
[IDE44-SATA22F is “out” due to necessary mobo mods (for fit).]
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2.5 SSD STRIPPING
brown-chicken brown-cow
Thrilling Digital Porn?
(Perhaps to some.)
And - as mentioned by DieHard and many others here
… it’s easy!
Have opened 2.5 Phillips, Inland, OWC and Crucial SSDs lately to place them into Mac Minis. The OWCs have screws holding them together. The Crucial SSD was the easiest to open and the Inland & Phillips SSDs are very easily pried open. I cut the end from an Inland to peer inside first, in order to see just where the SSD was and how much space it occupied. Of course if careful, you can place them back into their cases afterwards (if necessary). And yes, this surgery likely voids any manufacturer’s warranty. Another reason that initial trial testing / formatting in an MDD or QS (before the extraction) might be a good idea.
Here’s the Inland SSD with the end cut off and then contents revealed…
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8643;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8645;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8647;image)
OWC 120 GB… just looks larger in this picture.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8649;image)
SSD attached to 2005 Mac mini Interconnect board
w/ SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331V1.5) adapter.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8651;image)
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Wow, I finally calmed down, those "naked" SSDs are very sexy.
At any rate, I am guessing the bottleneck is the interconnect board, so tests should reveal the same speeds as mSata solutions...
but much cheaper cost than an mSata drive coupled with our top-shelf Amazon mSata adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
What is the cost breakdown of this new solution ?
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480GB SSD / Mac Mini
*Partitioned a Crucial BX500 480 GB SSD using Drive Setup 2.1 - into 4 partitions.
[Using the SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331V1.5) adapter.]
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8655;image)
Set first partition size to 120 GB / result = 117.19GB (installed OS 9.2.2)
2nd partition then yielded 106.38 GB (installed OS 10.4 Tiger)
3rd partition space = 11.78 GB
4th partition space = 11.78 GB
*Drive Setup 1.9.2 would only allow 120 GB partition for use.
Yes, I now promise to stop harping about Drive Setup 1.9.2
and… the JMicron / JM20330 chipsets vs. the Marvell war.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8657;image)
From OS 10.4 Tiger, System Report
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8659;image)
From OS 9.2.2 Apple System Profiler
*Used original Mac Mini install disc set to install OS 10.4 on the 1.42 GHz Mini
… after initial partitioning with Drive Setup 2.1 and the OS 9.2.2 installation.
SSDs must be removed from their cases to fit within the confines of the Mini,
likely voiding any warranty from the SSD manufacturers. However, this may
improve internal cooling of the Mini due to less-restricted internal airflow(?).
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8661;image)
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And, that's a Wrap.
Comparison tested two types of horizontal mount, 44 pin IDE-SATA adapters…
versus the AbleConn type mSATA sleds in G4 Mac Minis. Cost vs. performance.
While the approach necessitates removal of the actual SSD from 2.5 enclosures
(which is a very easy undertaking) it also: (1). Makes it easier to swap use of the
2.5 based SSDs from the 44 pin adapters - back & forth between 40 pin adapters
in MDDs, Quicksilvers etcetera, and (2). Also likely improves the overall cooling
within the close-quarter confines of the Mac mini… with a less-restricted airflow.
Tests were done using 120 GB - Inland, Phillips and OWC SSDs and a Crucial
(BX500) 480GB SSD. Once again, using Drive Setup 2.1 (instead of 1.9.2) for
formatting and partitioning of the SSDs. Both versions of Drive Setup are on
the latest version Mac mini install disc but 1.9.2 pre-loads at boot with the disc.
Simply quit 1.9.2 and find / open 2.1 instead. After format / partitioning… select
restore in place and the option that does not erase before the restore.
Testing was done with 1.25, 1.42 and 1.5 GHz Mac Minis, the above listed SSDs
and two different, horizontal oriented adapters. One, noted as a SATA2IDE44VAO
(AS331 V1.5) and the other, an IDE44-SATA-FSB (MCA004 V1.3)
Vertical oriented IDE44-SATA22F adapter was also tested but found problematic.
(Due to the restrictive space constraints inside all of the G4 Minis.)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8663;image)
While a very small performance difference is noted, the cost vs. performance tilts
to the adapters, given that they are ten to $20 dollars less-expensive than sleds.
(Especially $$$ important if you’ve more than one Mini to convert to SSD.)
All SSDs were two-partitioned with Drive Setup 2.1 and first-partition installed 9.2.2.
Afterwards, OS 10.4 or 10.4.2 (1.5 GHz Mini) was installed on the 2nd partition.
*The Crucial (BX500) 480 GB SSD was four-partitioned.
The SATA2IDE44VAO AS331 V1.5 was sourced from:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302898697852?hash=item46862b567c:g:HMoAAOSwHTlbqzQt
($9.32 w/shipping) *Price currently lowered to $9.00 each w/ Free Shipping.
And although there had been some difficulty concerning shipping charges with
multiple units (new eBay seller constraints / charges) this has been addressed.
Of course unit prices are better, ordered direct from China… if those ever arrive.
The IDE44-SATA-FSB (MCA004 V1.3) is a bit more finicky installation which
requires a bit more coaxing. (Odd, when it looks almost identical to the other.)
Almost wrote these off until retesting w/ more patience and Safe Boot to disable
some bothersome extensions. Very good U.S. based source for these:
https://www.microsatacables.com/44-pin-ide-to-7-15-pin-sata-adapter-ide44-sata-fsb
Their other adapters:
https://www.microsatacables.com/drive-adapters-and-drive-converters/ide-adapters
No jumper required for either of the above tested adapters in a G4 Mac Mini.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8665;image)
Notice how much smaller the Crucial 480 SSD is compared to the Inland 120?
Red dot (right image) on adhesive-backed foam is an added, applied “bumper”
…for some slight clearance with the optical drive when final-installed.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8667;image)
Side view, sans optical drive.
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random read 1kb 3.6mb/s
LOL, new definition of IDE speed.
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(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8651;image)
<3
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One of the most Epic Posts ever...
The amount of work and man hours done at Riverview Labs is daunting !
For those looking to buy or upgrade a Mac mini and run OS9, this is critical reference material with all the work already done.
I will be sending a Diehard care package out to the lab as soon as possible...
Oh and lastly, Diehard has partnered with the lab and jointly acquired 150 IDE/SATA adapters for G4 desktops that will be offered to members at a ridiculously low price staying with our goal of making upgrades on old macs possible for those on a low budget so stay tuned :)
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acquired 150 [...] SATA adapters [...] low budget
i can´t hear you, what did you say.
you can probably send half of them to germany. should we already collect orders? :)
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some use the full lenght of a 2.5" case, others only half of it. about time to get an overview.
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Don’t know, IIO.
Only tested brand new 120GB and 480GB “naked” SSDs.
But if you’ve some of the larger “full-size” SSDs (that you pictured)… please test and report.
Appears that they may indeed fit, once removed from their cases, as there is a “shelf” /
under which their extended length might actually be accommodated .
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8686;image)
Then there’s also a possible concern about larger capacity SSDs with the tested adapters,
as Micro SATA Cables notes: “Works with all SATA Drives up to 500GB”.
No SSD larger than the 480GB here, so I cannot test with either of the two adapters.
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oh, 500 gb. well, for most people it will be okay of course, but that is quite a limitation.
about the allowed lenght, could you measure how long the adapter is? that is all you need to know. "full length" should be too big.
but i could not find a listing of how all SSD look from inside, anyway. :)
i will check that with the help of photoshop later.
(to be honest, we also dont know yet if there is a limit for the concurring "white case" solution - my biggest m2 also only is a 256gb.)
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oh, 500 gb. well, for most people it will be okay of course, but that is quite a limitation.
It's a limit caused by ATA/6 which never really anticipated higher capacities, and with SATA becoming the norm at the time further work on refining the ATA spec got shelved permanently. Sometimes you can find an adaptor and host controller that can work over the 500GB limit reliably, but they all tend to be specialised and Windows-only.
Don't forget, we all started thinking a 40 megabyte hard drive was the wide open spaces that would never be filled ;)
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Hi-ya, Hyram!
“Sometimes you can find an adaptor and host
controller that can work over the 500GB limit…”
Don’t know if that 500GB limitation is also true with
SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331 V1.5) as it is only noted
with the IDE44-SATA-FSB (MCA004 V1.3). AND as
they have different identifier and revision numbers,
we won’t know until tested. The SATA2IDE44VAO
(AS331 V1.5) may not have the 500GB limitation.
And the IDE44-SATA-FSB dimensions are noted as:
2.72” x 0.55” x 0.69” (L 69mm x D 14mm x H 17mm)
and as the two adapters are almost identical, seems
that you might +.125” (3.175mm) to the 0.55” to allow
for the gap (at junction) between the naked SSD and
the adapter PCB when joined.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8690;image)
Measured inside the existing plastic framework and with
the “shelf” taken into consideration, it appears that the
available space for a naked SSD would be 3.75 inches.
(Slightly more if the speaker’s removed.) And that’s also
allowing for the adapter in place / not added to that 3.75.
Can easily fit two of the “half-size” back-to-back, without
even entering that added shelf space.
Don’t remember the costs of IIO's “white case” mSata but
aren’t they more costly than these - especially after adding
the cost of the mSata? And are they not also capable of the
same or similar simple benchmark performance? They’re
the same JMICRON JM20330 chipset.
PARTITIONS GALORE?
Would like to test a 1TB SSD with the SATA2IDE44VAO
(AS331 V1.5) and the IDE44-SATA-FSB (in spite of the
“up to 500 GB” statement) - but I’ve no actual need. I do
wonder if the newer SSDs of such larger capacity would
need that much additional space for install? Hopefully
they’re now available in smaller, actual physical sizes.
*The reduced size of the Crucial 480GB SSD surprised
me, especially when compared to the 120GB SSDs.
Then there’s this olde information treasure trove…
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2765.msg17150.html#msg17150
-although not Mini-centic, still very pertinent background info.
Note: "very pertinent..."
Hell, read the entire thread. GOLD!!!
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It's a limit caused by ATA/6 which never really anticipated higher capacities
the size limit of ATA controllers should be a lot higher than that and the "normal" "cheap green" adapters do support 2 TB disks just fine.
(@FBz: i wonder if that would also be true for the "bribge" ones?)
in theory SATA 6 (or "apples" SATA 5 @ 48 bit) offers 144 petabytes. though i would not not be suprised if the mac mini G4 had some weird size limit.
however, it is the first time i hear that an SATA convertor comes with a denoted size limit for itself.
it could be enlightening to try that adapter with a 1 TB drive - and when it doesnt work, try it with a bigger block size.
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I do
wonder if the newer SSDs of such larger capacity would
need that much additional space for install? Hopefully
they’re now available in smaller, actual physical sizes.
we would probably find both.
since there are 16 TB and 24 TB consumer SSDs for a while, you could think that a 1 TB or 2 TB case should be almost emtpy. :)
but there are for sure enough "older format" series on the market which are "full" or which are always full size regardless the memory.
i can currently not help with that.
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"white case" is for me in europe - when you wait for a good offer from china (4-12 weeks delivery) around USD 17 for m2 and around USD 20 for mSata
compared to "green" (bigger with 2 big capacitors) which is around USD 5 and luxury/masterslaveoption delock/startech slegde starting at USD 35
(all prices including shipping)
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Yes, the “green” (bigger with 2 big capacitors - the RXD’s) are for other G4 models.
Discussed here are the smaller “green” 44-pin adapters intended for the Mac mini.
*MicroSATAcables.com offers the “white” mSata case adapters for $11.75. :D
(@FBz: i wonder if that would also be true for the "bribge" ones?) -IIO
I’ll check the Bribge adapters (non-Mini) & report on that other thread.
[ http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5436.msg39965 ]
Might take me a day or two as I'm brain dead today. Tax Day! >:(
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Now I’ve got many Minis to convert!
Well, the IDE44-SATA-FSB adapter with its’ stated 500GB limit
- did prove problematic with a 1TB SSD.
Initial testing of 1TB Crucial BX500 SSD in 1.5GHz G4 Mac Mini
completed yesterday with both of the 44-pin green adapters.
Formatted and partitioned in various ways with varying
number of partitions and partition sizes…
until arriving at the following:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8705;image)
Note: Above format yields 931.41GB total. *Might decrease sizes of the larger
“Space” partitions to allow for more unused (a reserved percentage) of the
SSD - if eventually to be left in the Mac Mini.
(Drive Setup 2.1 is in the Applications folder of the Mac Mini installer disc.)
Again, standard procedure here is to close Drive Setup 1.9.2 (which auto-opens)
under the V.9 installer (and prior versions) and then open Drive Setup 2.1
for format and partitioning. Then, under ASR… select “Restore in Place”.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8707;image)
Initial install here was with the (preferred) SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331 V1.5) adapter
which provided the following QuickBench results:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8709;image)
Then, switched out the adapter with the IDE44-SATA-FSB
(MCA004 V1.3) adapter and it booted the first time…
only followed w/ question-mark icon upon reboot.
Heed that IDE44-SATA-FSB “works up to 500GB” caveat.
Afterwards, upon reinstallation of the SATA2IDE44VAO
…the following problems were noted.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8711;image)
So then another reformat / re-partition and OS 9.2.2 re-install. And then Tiger.
*No jumper on either adapter tested. Both pre-set as “Master”
- which is as they should be for use in the G4 Mac Mini.
The SATA2IDE44VAO seems “best choice” while the
IDE44-SATA-FSB may in fact only “work up to 500GB”.
The Crucial BX500 1TB SSD is nearly the exact, smaller physical size
as the Crucial 480 GB SSD once removed from the case. Will next be
tested in MDD and Quicksilver with a “Bribge” adapter and results will
be posted on that other thread (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5436.msg44513.html#msg44513) - dealing with other (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5436.msg39965.html#msg39965http://) machine adapters.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8713;image)
Then I promise (PROMISE) to quit testing AND posting results.
For a-while… any-way. ::)
And sorry IIO, didn’t find one of those “full-size” SSDs to test. ;)
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hm. why does it let you format the disk with 1 TB when it only "supports" 05?
what happens if you make only one partition of 1 TB?
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“hm. why does it let you format the disk with 1 TB when it only "supports" 05?
what happens if you make only one partition of 1 TB?” -IIO
Recent testing (and excessive rigorous hair-pulling) with larger drives
in the B&W, AGP & Digital Audio machines - may finally lead back to
these questions… UND possible answers.
Consider this a placeholder for now?
“chainsaw massacre part XIV” (Indeed.) ::)
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most of my rhetoric questions are placeholders.
and i had to postpone the answer to the "16TB question" (and the website as well), sorry. but it is not forgotten, just delayed.
one day we will create a mini boot DVD with 3 partitions with 10.4, 10.5 and OS9 as the most simple starting point for everyone. or better yet, a white case incl- content and everything preinstalled.
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BOLO
Be On the LookOut for…
the AS331 V1.5 / SATA2IDE44VAO SSD adapters.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=8610;image)
First mentioned and tested - back in May of 2021.
It now seems that the original supplier (and others)
no longer have these V1.5’s available.
And they work so very well in the G4 Mac mini!
Instead, all NOW found are of the V1.3 variety. And those
(while they may also work) are just a bit “flaky” in the mini.
[Maybe not only running OS 9 - but dual boot w/ OS X?]
The in-line configurations pictured above are the best.
And while the MCA004 V1.3’s have that same in-line
configuration, they’re also V1.3. (Work /but problems).
[And the IDE44-SATA22F doesn’t fit inside the mini.]
Hope to test the “new” AS331 V1.3 but think their
performance (and V1.3 version number) may not
equal that of the original V1.5’s.
So, if anyone stumbles upon the original ones V1.5
do please let me know so I can order TEN of them.
Thanks! ;)
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Hello, i have installed this in my Mac Mini G4 with a 128GB mSATA SAMSUNG inside, and with two partitions: Mac OS 9.2.2 and Mac OS X 10.4.11 :
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32831970452.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef194dBExecP&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp (https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32831970452.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef194dBExecP&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp)
Works great!
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link 404
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link 404
solved, sorry:
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32831970452.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef194dBExecP&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp (https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32831970452.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef194dBExecP&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp)
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First mentioned and tested - back in May of 2021.
It now seems that the original supplier (and others)
no longer have these V1.5’s available.
----
Hope to test the “new” AS331 V1.3 but think their
performance (and V1.3 version number) may not
equal that of the original V1.5’s.
So, if anyone stumbles upon the original ones V1.5
do please let me know so I can order TEN of them.
FBz, I've been testing various green chinese JM20330 adapters lately and this is what I was able to find out so far.
JM20330 does not have an option to upload firmware. Something that could be called "firmware" is placed on the chip during manufacture by the way of masks. There might have been several revisions to those masks, but only jMicron knows that. So, basically, it is just a "translator" chip betweed ATA and SATA with "hardcoded" set of functions.
Which brings us to your 1.3 vs. 1.5 issue..
If the PCBs look identical and assuming that the later revisions of the JM20330 chip are not worse than the earlier ones, the problem might lie somewhere else.
1.3 or 1.5 on the PCB might be just a silkscreening, indicating what set of (borrowed) production files that particular manufacturer of boards has. There might be some changes how the traces are laid out, but there's also a good chance that no changes were made. You should inspect closely both versions and check whether there are any differences.
(Btw, do you have a hi-rez pictures of both boards? I could have a look. I ordered a batch of 1.3 boards from China, but they are still in transit).
Then there's this one interesting blog entry
https://hackaday.io/project/186809-m2-sata-to-44p-ide-adapter/log/209761-jm20330-reverse-engineering
where the author talks about chinese "Bribge" adapter and how it deviates from jMicron's "reference design".
From what he writes and from what I have seen myself, it appears that producers of all sorts of JM20330 adapters try to save every penny that they can.
It very well might be that sequencing between 1.8V and 3.3V at start-up gets wrong because someone put too small resistor or capacitor at PORn pin 17. 1uF ceramic cap is not exactly cheap from mass manufacturer perspective compared to 0.1uF. There might be wrong value capacitor somewhere else too, visually they all look the same. Or regulators from the bad batch or from manufacturer's rejects bin. Who knows..
From the datasheet:
The JM20330 is a UMC 0.18 process chip solution. Which need 2 power supply e.g. 1.8 v and 3.3 v. When power on, keep 1.8v leading 3.3v. If it can not be achieved, the 3.3v and 1.8v should come at the same time.
.... the PORn signal in pin 17 shall be still low( asserted ) till 1 ms second after both 1.8 v and 3.3 v power supply are stable
So, in summary, I would go as follows:
1. Check PCB layouts. If they match,
2. Check type of voltage regulators.
3. Check resistor values, i.e. what's printed on them - 102; 103; 0 etc.
4. If you have LCR meter, check capacitor values where possible.
5. Check if capacitors differ visually in size. That might indicate different capacitances.
Then there's special case with 12K resistor, marked "123", which, as per datasheet, should be 1% tolerance. Who knows what they used.
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Hi
My simple contribution …
Using this mSATA adapter in my mini;
https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B01GRMUQRG
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Everyone is using these "green PCB" adapters, that's nothing new, BUT(!) this design is not ideal from EE perspective and has one pitfall. I'll probably make a separate thread about it.
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we call them "white case" and they are a "just works" solution.
most people use the m2 version, but if you choose the mSATA version, which also exists, the SSD you are going to buy will be more future ready.
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most people use the m2 version..
I thought, it was the other way round - i.e. most people used mSATA versions. Also, how can mSATA be "more future ready"? ;)
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(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12442;image)
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okay, so it is either the other way round or there is no difference.
three theories is one too much, so i guess i m going to pull mine.
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ssp3, after reading that link, it's amazing these "Bribge" adapters are working at all... FBz and I still have over 100+ of these in stock that we bought for the site and have been sending them to members over the last 3 years, I am not sure if this is muddying up the mini thread, but I guess it's all related:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5967.0,html
Unfortunately, we never had the time to do as extensive testing in MDD and QS as we did with the DA (digital Audio)
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6233.0.html
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Recent testing here (again!) of the V1.3 vs. the V1.5 44-pin JMicron-based adapters in G4 Mac minis provided some interesting results. The V1.3 adapters (MCA004) are still undependable in cold boot situations and quite often require the use of an installer (or boot disc) CD of some sort in order to mount and select any OS from a cold start using the boot picker. Again, it is as if there is a voltage requirement not being met… as after they have finally been successfully booted (warmed up?) - reboots and subsequent boots afterwards (within a certain amount of time)… they seem fine. [RE: DieHard’s hair dryer approach.] ;)
This may be different in laptops - but it’s the same for every G4 Mac mini / ranging from the 1.25 GHz through to and including the 1.5 Ghz.
(Seems that their erratic boot behavior was similar in the Lombard here.)
Again, I suspect the different voltage regulators used on the V1.3 and will eventually swap them out with the V1.5's AMS regulators.
(I have the 3.3 - but await the 1.8.)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12613;image)
As for the “different” PCB layouts (anyone can play) try to spot any differences:
(Warning: fairly large images that are “clickable” for larger view.)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12605;image)
Same order as above, MCA004 on top & the AS331 on the bottom. The “other sides”.
*There’s that resistor labeled “123” that ssp3 mentioned. (Again, image clickable.)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12607;image)
The funny thing is that… once you get a mini to boot from the V1.3 - it does perform / benchmark just slightly better than the V1.5.
BUT even if it does become more stable and less problematic in the Mac minis, I won’t make a habit of changing voltage regulators.
(If that works.) Especially now that mSATA and the “white case” adapters have come down in price. (Thanks IIO & zefrenchtoon!)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12615;image)
Definitely much more to follow concerning the “white case” mSATA variants in the G4 mini(s).
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12611;image)
Overall averaged score numbers (not MB per/sec) from QuickBench 2.0.
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FBz,
I know you covered this, but...
I am starting to think the Ableconn is definitely the best choice with all the extra variables involved with the cheap adapters.
Yes, expensive now @$39, but that's only a net increase of about $25 from buying the cheap ones and they are built so much better and have way better heat dissipation. Also faster
I bought one in 2020 $31.99, then went to $42... now $39
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
Dimensions 3.9 x 2.8 x 0.4 inches / 100 x 70 x 10 mm
Weight 1.9 ounces / 54 g
Capacity Up to 150 MB/s
Input mSATA (52-pin, Mini SATA) Receptale
Output IDE (44-pin, PATA) Male
Chipset Marvell 88SA8052
Compatibility OS independent; No driver installation required
Supported System Windows, Macs, and Linux
Certification CE, FCC, RoHS
Feature Bullets
Convert a full size mSATA SSD into a standard 9.5mm high 44-pin 2.5" IDE SSD drive.
Open frame aluminum housing dessign provides excellent heat dissipation for mSATA SSD
Compatible with most mSATA solid state drives such as the SAMSUNG 840/850 EVO
OS independent; No driver installation required. Native support in Windows, Mac and Linux.
Fully RoHS compliant. High quality product. Made in Taiwan.
Convert Full Size mSATA SSD to High Performance, No Noise, Low Power 44Pin 2.5" IDE SSD
Supports SATA I, SATA II and SATA III (6Gbps) mSATA SSD
Latch type mSATA connector on board, no need the screw to retain mSATA SSD
100% Compatible with 2.5" IDE drive mechanical spec
48 bits LBA can Break Capacity-Limit to Support mSATA SSD max 144, 115, 188GB
Compliant with Serial ATA 2.6
Jumper setting support IDE Master, Slave and Cable Select Modes
Tag Command Queuing (Max 32 entries)
ATA/ATAPI PIO mode data transfer
ATA/ATAPI UDMA data transfer rate of 150, 133, 100, 66, 44, 33, 25, 16.7 MB/s
ATA/ATAPI-7 Streaming feature set
Includes 9.5mm height 2.5 " drive metal frame with 8 mounting holes and 4 HDD screws
Dimension of PCBA with 2.5" frame : 98mm x 69.85mm x 9.5mm
Package Contents
Ableconn IIDE-MSAT mSATA SSD to 2.5in SATA Drive Converter
Mounting screw set (4x drive mount screws)
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Yeah DH. I bought my AbleConn sled back in 2018 and put a Zheino 128 GB mSATA on it at the time… and I’ve yet to get back to testing it with a newer DogFish mSATA to see if I can get its’ performance up to your current levels. (That testing is on the list for this week!) Back in 2018, the Ableconn and the Zheino together, cost just under / or just above $100.00.
Me (being “thrifty”) I’m always seeking lower cost alternatives and I will also be checking internal & external operating temps of the various approaches for the mini. There’s never anything to do here.
To me, that was the allure of the AS331 v1.5 bridge adapters… as they took up less internal space, they were super low cost and operated cool - und allowed (in my mind at least) more internal air circulation and cooling. And now, before I have re-tested the AbleConn (with the new Dogfish mSATA) I’m leaning more towards the half-height mSATA “white case” in nekkid mode. Cheap! Inexpensive.
YET… it remains to be seen if I can get close to your most recent QB 2.0 results with it in a 1.42 GHz or 1.5 GHz Mac mini.
Vee shall see vhat the AbleConn + DogFish does this week.
*What’s the exhaust and bottom temps of your 1.42 GHz mini (with Ableconn) after 15 minutes run time? AND which mSATA rides yo sled?
Still awaiting M.2 SSD performance reports from anyone running that setup in a G4 Mac mini.
[BTW… hope all goes well with the weather “out there”.]
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The V1.3 adapters (MCA004) are still undependable in cold boot situations and quite often require the use of an installer (or boot disc) CD of some sort in order to mount and select any OS from a cold start using the boot picker.
Strange. I never had any cold boot issues with my Mac Mini 1.42 (before it went into coma). But then, my 1.3 adapters were from the recent batch. Yours are probably a bit older. Who knows what parts they've used this time over there..
Again, I suspect the different voltage regulators used on the V1.3 and will eventually swap them out with the V1.5's AMS regulators.
They both are bog standard low-dropout regulators, produced by a variety of manufacturers all over the world. A knock offs of National Semiconductor LM1117 design, if I'm not mistaken. One is by MicrOne, the other by Advanced Monolithic Systems. Unless any of these two manufacturers screwed up something in their processes or adapter producers used parts from rejects bin, their performance should be equal IF the implementation is as recommended in datasheets (see below).
As for the “different” PCB layouts (anyone can play) try to spot any differences:
Thanks for the pictures! I inspected them closely and can say that the layouts are identical electrically. The only differences are how some vias and pads connect to copper pours, some trace thickness and, of course, the silkscreening.
First two can easily happen when you import somebody else's design into your CAD application but your preferences for 'import' or 'refill copper pour' are set differently. Or, if you think that you know better, you just change those. It's not a big deal.
I checked the datasheets of LM1117 and some of its derivatives and this is what really draw my attention:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12617)
I don't see any 10uF or larger Tantalum or Electrolytic caps on these two adapters. I highly doubt that any of the 4 larger ceramic caps are 10uF. I haven't checked lately, but, I think the ceramics stopped at 1uF. (This is what I've used in the past and even they were in larger, 1206 size).
It is difficult to guarantee that 1,8 Volts for JM20330 will come before 3,3V with > 10uF capacitors, because their capacitance tolerances are quite large. (+/- 20%, +20/-80% etc.)
I look at these two boards and am wondering how do they work at all. Unless I've missed something, for me, both designs are marginal.. :(
(But I still like them, because they're cheap, compact and can be used with naked 2.5" SSDs).
EDIT.
A clever design would use a watchdog or reset IC, which monitors 1,8 Volt line and, only when that reaches certain threshold, releases the reset pin of the JM20330 controller.
"White box" adapters use different approach - they use voltage drop of two diodes to get down to 1,8V from a single 3,3V regulator, that powers everything, including mSATA drive, and in that way guarantee that the both voltages at least come up at the same time. But that voltage regulator is of larger size (spec'ed for higher current), you can't fit it to v1.3 or v1.5 adapters.
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I’m leaning more towards the half-height mSATA “white case” in nekkid mode
Bad design from thermal point of view. Put a full size mSATA drive on it and you will get one hot sandwich.
(See my pics in the other thread with mini size mSATA drive. That's the only way that I would use it).
Still awaiting M.2 SSD performance reports from anyone running that setup in a G4 Mac mini.
There you go. Mac Mini 1.42
A couple of comments.
* All are OEM drives.
* Stay away from PM881, especially from 2021. It has manufacturing problems. Defects, even when new (see last attachment).
* PM871b is power hungry - 1,8A. Tested only briefly to see how hot the regulator will get.
* CM871 is a DRAM-less low power gem - 0,7A.
* Toshiba (with meaningless model name) is even better - 0,4A, but only 24GB in size.
* M.2 drives generally are of newer design with faster controllers and higher current consumpion than mSATA.
128GB and smaller are relatively rare (I'm ignoring products from 'over there').
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So, I will break all this down... 20 pages in a few sentences...
If you are:
1) NOT an electrical engineer
2) Have a mac mini
3) can swap out components (like a drive)
Buy this for $39: https://www.amazon.com/Ableconn-IIDE-MSAT-2-5-Inch-Converter-Aluminum/dp/B017VQT5YW
OR...save $26 and...
Buy this for $13: https://www.amazon.com/mSATA-44pin-Notebook-Laptop-Enclosure/dp/B01GRMUQRG?th=1
and also buy a soldering station, diodes, heat gun, capacitors, some electrical engineering books, and learn the art of circuit board modification
Damn that $26 might not go so far
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DieHard, you're twisting the facts >:(
If you
Buy this for $13: https://www.amazon.com/mSATA-44pin-Notebook-Laptop-Enclosure/dp/B01GRMUQRG?th=1
and don't try to stick cheap, chinese, large capacity, power hungry, no-name SSD into it, you'll be absolutely fine. No problems with these + brand name, low power mSATA drives so far.
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Thanks for clearing that up :)
Sorry for muddying the waters
The heat tests that FBz will be doing will also be helpfull of which way to go
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The AbleConn mSATA sleds are tested proven and stable. Good performers. BUT I have a personal dislike of the Marvells, based on their inherent higher cost. Always checking for lower cost, and comparable performance alternatives.
Here’s some example QB 2.0 results from a lowly 1.25 GHz G4 Mac mini last week. Not quite up to DieHard’s Ableconn in a 1.42 GHz mini (but I began recent testing with the lower 1.25 GHz mini). Similar tests from a 1.42 and a 1.5 GHz mini are re-slated. Top two results below are mSATA. Bottom two are with JMicron bridge adapters + stripped naked SSD. (Clickable image.)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12629;image)
Hey IIO, can you import and plot performance curves from such QuickBench 2.0 generated text?
*Also ran SCSI Benchmark too, along with 1.42 & 1.5 GHz minis but that USB stick with all of those results from last week "expired".
mSATA formatted and OS’es installed via Tiger in a Quicksilver & using Disk Utility. Intend to retest all again using Drive Setup 2.1.
(Just as there is an overall performance difference between using Drive Setup 1.9.2 and Drive Setup 2.1.)
All drives here (mSATA, SSD, etc.) are typically two-partitioned, dual boot (OS 9.2 & 10.4.6)
Often, so many variables to consider.
And, guess I’ll need to buy a newer MCA004 V1.3 to test - because the AS331 V1.5’s are no more. :(
With nearly 12,000 views of this thread so far and especially considering OS 9.2 / V.9 for the G4 Mac mini… scores have checked out all of the options and the intent here was always to provide good solid working info with the various configs, formatting, etc. And of course, the proverbial “best bang for the buck”.
Thanks ssp3 for the M.2 results. I was expecting higher numbers. DieHard’s inexpensive Asenno mSATA in a 1.42 GHz Mac mini, riding his AbleConn / Marvell-based sled… coughed up an 89.226 MB/sec per QB 2.0 sequential read result (@1MByte transfer size) last week.
“I look at these two boards and am wondering how do they work at all.” -ssp3
Same goes for the “Bribge” EVB-002-3 ehh? It shouldn’t - but it does work so very well. :)
And thanks to ssp3 for checking out the JMicron images and his insights.
Perhaps like some things around here, we’re occasionally surprised by things that shouldn’t work (but do) and by things that should work (but do not). Of course we all appreciate more, the former… rather than the latter.
There are still six remaining G4 Minis here with the V1.5’s - and two loose V1.5’s for testing. [I should’ve bought more!] Hopefully the “white case” adapters will be a suitable low-cost replacement. I have seen some mSATA upper heat limit specs noted as 70˚ C / 158˚ F. And while I’ve yet to ever approach that threshold even in a bone stock G4 Mini with HDD… I’m never concerned in any Mac until surpassing 138˚ F. (Except for maybe the insanely hot running first Core2Duo Minis!)
The G4 Minis ultimately run much cooler, as a rule.
Last week initial tests here with the two “white case / box” adapters (naked): one did produce some oddly rising temps on specific PCB traces. (More so than on their JM2330’s or voltage regulators.) Nothing above 109˚… however, after the first 10-15 minutes in an open case mini. I intend to check this more closely and under longer run times (top on & top off).
UND the AbleConn sled too…
Ahh, testing continues...
But now it is afternoon here and I haven't had coffee OR breakfast.
(Likely will be days before I return to this and more testing.)
доверяй, но проверяй. ;)
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I've got that same $13 adapter in a couple of PPC Minis. I've got even cheaper (~$8) SATA to IDE adapters in a couple of other PPC Macs, one a Mini and another an iMac. I haven't had any problems in the last several years that these have been used.
All of my Macs, Mini or otherwise, have reduced temps with SSDs installed, even using the less expensive adapters and regardless of what SSD is used.
None of these PPCs can even get remotely close to maximizing the speeds on these SSDs.
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доверяй, но проверяй. ;)
Huh? You one of Z-em?
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G4 Mac Mini • mSATA
This thread originally began as an examination of the low cost SATA bridge adapters and “Naked” 2.5” SSDs in the G4 Mac Mini… compared back then with the higher cost (in 2021) of the mSATA and even some Marvell-based adapters and adapter sleds. This now includes some mSATA SSDs on other adapter sleds (like Ableconn, DeLock, etc.) and JMicron-based “White Case” mSATA adapter cards… as costs have now decreased for the mSATAs and some adapters / sleds.
No M.2 SSDs or their adapters were tested here. So unless you’re planning on possibly removing such M.2 SSDs later for use in some newer machine and thus “future proofing” them (as IIO previously attempted to intimate here) IMHO, I don’t really see the need, nor any real advantage of having an M.2 in a G4 Mac Mini over mSATA. I could of course be mistaken.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12778;image)
M.2 result on the left, Zheino 128 GB mSATA on the right. I did change the “Expected Peak” setting for the Zheino test (why it only appears to plot lower) and sometimes SCSI Benchmark will auto-set this too. But… compare the Peak & Sustained Read numbers. The Toshiba 24 (ssp3’s) does plot much smoother Reads & Writes… while the Peak and Sustained Write numbers of the Zheino are only just fractionally better.
Here’s the DogFish and Ableconn. Plots a bit more erratic than the Zheino but the “QuickBench 2.0 factored averaging scores” (later here, below) does give it a slight edge over the Zheino on the Ableconn sled. I assume that ATTO SCSI Benchmark’s smoother plotting M.2’s (and mSata’s) might be slightly more expensive?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12780;image)
I still prefer the arduous & extensive number crunching approach of QuickBench 2.0 "result averaging" to one-number rate & compare overall configurations and performance.
[*OCD and me.]
HEAT
The Prequel
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12782;image)
It was cool here upstairs this morning with the A/C off and the patio door open.
*Ambient room temp in testing environment here (basement) is a stable 76˚F.
Considering possible operating temperature concerns with the bridge adapters and the “white case” mSata adapters and adapter sleds: have not yet encountered any overheating or extreme heat problems within the G4 Mini. In fact, other than a few small, initial temperature rises on some of the components, or on specific areas of the naked “White Case” adapters… nothing on sleds or adapters has gotten warmer than 112˚ F / after 15-30 minutes runtime. More intense heat could be more prevalent and more of a critical issue in cramped internal-space laptops?
If your G4 Mac Mini’s exhaust temps are above 100˚F very soon after boot, check your fan’s run condition and possibly renew the CPU thermal paste, posthaste.
Initially, all tested Mac mini fan exhaust temps (mini case covers off) here reached 84˚ (maximum) soon after boot and remained there steady. With the exception of two Minis here that quickly went to just above 100˚F almost immediately. [There’s a BIG clue.] Renewed the CPU thermal paste and those temps then matched the 84˚. (And all with no White Case adapter covers in place ~ “naked”.)
Also Heat related: Interesting mSATA flash memory chip up/down orientation discovery… later.
Please note: No Minis here rest solely upon their rubber padded bottoms. All have either small felt or rubber feet attached at each corner to raise them at least 1/8” to facilitate improved heat dispersion and also promote cooler air circulation at (and from around) the base. Consider this a cooling “air gap”. [Much more on HEAT, later.]
Temperatures measured from the center of the inset Apple logo on the base rubber pad of the mini… after 30 minutes run time and with mini’s top case cover in place = 100˚. That’s nothing.
All recent testing and results here - via a 1.42 GHz / G4 Mac mini with 1 GB RAM.
Good News / Bad News?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12784;image)
The Ableconn sled with mSATA did exceed the basic SSD + bridge adapters’ overall performance - and for an estimated total combined cost… of now roughly $60.00. Then the “White Case” adapters + mSATA combos come in @around $40.00. While the lowly JMicron - based adapter bridges + SSDs… still hover right around $30.00 total. *All ball park estimates, including the cost of a 120 / 128 GB 2.5” SSD and/or inexpensive mSATA.
MORE NUMBERS:
Higher numbers are better.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12786;image)
Some here (with better mental recall than me) may remember lesser performance numbers reported previously for some of the above, back in August. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12611;image Direct consequence of: (1). Using Tiger via a Quicksilver to format and install, (2). Testing in a 1.25 GHz Mac mini, and (3).Utter and complete stupidity. Hurry up and f•ck up!
“Came to my senses” and realized my folly… just after all those initial test results were all lost -
when the USB stick they were stored on, failed. So…Using Drive Setup 2.1 definitely matters!
AND NOW… HEAT!
Imagine yourself inside a small enclosed box. Say, with an internal temperature of often greater than +100˚ F. And there’s only one small fan drawing cooler outside air in and around you. And that air is then exhausted through a rather small exit opening. After a prolonged period of time and rising heat, would you: (1). Begin removing articles of clothing to remain cooler, or (2). Put on a coat or some other covering like plastic, steel, aluminum or copper?
Q: Why would anyone remove plastic covers from mSata adapters (and why are MDD copper heatsinks so highly sought)?
A: Ther-mal Con-duc-tiv-ity.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12788;image)
*Higher conductivity numbers are better. (Why shocked about chrome-plated-steel-covered RAM?)
Based (not entirely) on the above I don’t use mSata white case covers, just as I also remove plastic cases from 2.5” SSDs… and I’m now also considering the exclusion of the steel framework of the Ableconn sled in the mini. After all, it isn’t like it’s a laptop to be dragged around bumped & jostled about @ Starbucks.😬
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12790;image)
One might also note that the Ableconn mounted mSata faces down towards the mini’s mobo when installed. Which makes it nigh impossible to take open case (booted) temperature readings of the various onboard components. So such temperatures can’t be reported here. And I’ve yet to acquire any of those small, wired, digital probe, temperature monitors. Anyway, monitoring the mini’s fan exhaust temp seems sufficient enough for me at present with the Ableconn. Until I eventually (gasp) buy some of those digital probe temp monitors.
Here are some open case temps measured from the half-height and full-height white case adapters…
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12792;image)
Above, note the slightly higher temps recorded on the Zheino mSata (compared to those on the DogFish mSata, below). Maybe this is really the (not-so-hot) “hot sandwich” result of the JMicron 20330 being located directly below the mSata mounted on this adapter? Still however, 96˚ F is not really all that hot. The 100.4˚ noted on C19 (lower left, bottom) was a bit surprising. AND a very quick removal of the mSata from this adapter afterwards, produced a temp reading of 96.6˚ from the surface of the JM20330. Again, not really all that hot inside (but closer-quarter laptops might be a different story altogether). The fan’s exhaust temperature was steady @ 84˚.
Just now ran it all again with CD drive installed and the mini’s case cover in place. And in the half-hour or so that it took to run all tests in MacBench 3.0 - the fan exhaust temp rose only to 92.6˚ (from the previous 84˚) and the bottom of the mini’s temperature (center of the logo - rubber pad bottom) read 100˚. The two mSata flash memory chips rose to 98.6˚ and the two round capacitors rose to 99.7˚. D1 and D2 read 97.5˚ and 95.8˚.
Still, temperature measurements taken while under a much heavier CPU load would also be useful - but for now there’s at least +36 F degrees to go, before I’d ever even really become concerned.
You might also note the “up” orientation of the flash chips on the Zheino mSata pictured above - compared to the “down” orientation of the flash chips on the DogFish mSata below. Perhaps something to consider when selecting mSata’s and mSata adapters? Up? Or down in relation to the mounting socket? Think I’ll leave the Zheino on the “half-height” card above as the flash mem chips don’t face down towards the JM20330 chip, whereas the DogFish mSata would place the surface of its’ flash chips nearer the JM20330 on the half-height. So perhaps I’ll “err” more towards the dreaded (not-so-hot) “heat sandwich” in the Mac mini with the half-height card as my own personal choice. (ala NewEgg.com)
But it seems to run hotter! (I don’t care.)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12794;image)
There’s a difference? Or are all mSata flash chips oriented just one way now?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12796;image)
The “full-height” adapter card (above / from Amazon) seems to run cooler in the open tests. (Mac mini & plastic cover removed.) However, the white-circled trace area reads 98˚… while no traces on the half-height card approximate that. This may likely be the better / more cool-er running adapter due to the lower temps in an open mini but I am concerned about its’ overall length as it may restrict air flow. The closer such things extend to near the front of the mini, the more they are also exposed to mobo components that do generate more heat and the longer length might trap more of that heat under (and absorb into) the full-height card and its’ components. Time will tell.
Also, the vertical red line in the above image might be where I’d consider removing a part of the PCB to allow for more air flow. But no, I won’t be hacking up my Ableconn… I’ll just leave the steel mounting framework off. The Ableconn with the metal mounting frame removed is only 2.25 inches wide and this provides an eighth-inch more open space around either side for air circulation. And again… the Ableconn sled + DogFish mSata scored best overall performance in tests here.
Any way the wind blows…?
SPACE
Here are some grab shots of the space that each approach occupies inside the mini (sans CD drive). I personally prefer those that take up less actual space, thinking that these may increase the (sic) “Dyson Cyclonic” Vortex™ air circulation pattern with that added space and thereby increase the likelihood of possibly better airflow, and thus better cooling? It’s a theory. Really should re-install an original HD and check fan exhaust and bottom temps for comparison too. Hotter, or not? (Did it. Not really hotter.)
Red outlined area in this first image encompasses a BIG heat generating area of the mini’s mobo.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12798;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12800;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12802;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12804;image)
SHUT UP ALREADY!
And other errata…
Caveat: This is by no means intended as an all-inclusive or Best-of-the-Best representation of all the available mSATAs, or of all the various available mSATA adapters / nor of all SSDs and other IDE bridge adapters or upgrade routes. There are certainly many more mSATAs, SSDs and various other adapters… and most certainly more expensive choices than those represented & tested here. But hopefully, this will serve as a broad sampling of some of the lower… to somewhat higher-cost possible choices.
As always… with tested performance versus cost = Value. If you’ve a big budget and want the fastest, best-est, etc… well, it’s your money.
And as merely one of many possible “for instances” or “what-abouts” - consider the following bit of info concerning some differences between a Zheino mSata type M3 and type Q3:
“Flash memory chips used on the Q3 are from Intel, while the M3 uses flash memory chips from Sandisk. Of these two, the M3 appears to be a little faster reading, but the Q3 is a little faster at writing. However, both M3 and Q3 use a DRAM-less design, which means that under sustained write load (such as when restoring this SSD from a backup), the write rate is initially fast, but after some time, it will eventually drop to around 28MB/s for the M3 model, and around 38MB/s for the Q3 model. This is slower than MLC mSATA SSDs, which will sustain write speeds of 110MB/s from start to end. However, such long writes are uncommon in normal usage, so therefore it should not matter quite as much. This slow down of the write throughput should also be less pronounced if there are pauses in between the writes, and if there is some unallocated space for over-provisioning. So in conclusion, the M3 is a decent performer, it disappoints a bit in terms of sustained write rates, but it's still a good value, I think.” -paraphrased and quoted from a review by S.Lin “Good Performance and Value”
The DogFish mSata tested here does have those Sandisk flash chips.
So there’s a myriad of variables and other minutiae that one might consider when choosing any mSata / SSD application and installation configuration(s)?
“Stupid is as stupid does.”
Wait, you’ve already heard this tale of woe.
Initially began all of this testing by fresh formatting the mSata’s and the stripped 2.5 SSDs in a Quicksilver using Tiger’s Disc Utility. So after the first full week of testing and benchmarking all various installations in the full range of G4 Mac minis (from the 1.25 GHz to the 1.5 GHz models) with QuickBench 2.0 and ATTO’s SCSI Benchmark… ALL of those benchmarks were less than impressive. And luckily all of those tests, results and companion / comparison graphics were lost when the USB stick I was using to transfer and store all of that (shuffled between upstairs and downstairs machines) failed utterly. And testing began all over again (only with the 1.42 GHz model this time) after I remembered my own “best approach” of formatting with Drive Setup 2.1 for optimal performance from OS 9.2 in the Mac mini. USE DRIVE SETUP 2.1!!! I cannot stress this enough.
However… supporting benchmarks and other graphics do now exist here for all the above test results. BUT as lengthy and verbose as this already is - they are not included here. (Collective sigh of relief.)
Seasonal Lagniappe:
And sorry (not sorry) but while this IS about G4 Mac minis… and it is October.
HAD to share these images of a mini recently acquired by one of our more infamous cohorts.
The thing reportedly booted right up and in this condition!
Presenting the “Halloween Edition” G4 Mac mini. Very scary.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12806;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12808;image)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5955.0;attach=12810;image)
Very nice spider und web!
“We’re often surprised by things that shouldn’t work (but do) and by things that should work (but do not).
Of course we all appreciate more, the former… rather than the latter.”
доверяй, но проверяй! ;)
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FBz that was an awesome post and I will be re-reading it for a 3rd and forth go in the morning.
Yeah... full disclosure to members, those were my pics of that very abused mini that was shipped to me from the member known as Redicliff.
He contributed that G4 mini spider apartment (and some ministacks) to the cause and I thank him ! And yes, it booted to OS X without issue, lol.
The mini now looks like brand new and I really should have posted some after pics, the spider was long since dead so no insects were harmed in this production... getting the CD to function was quite the challenge.
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I see a couple of errors and misconceptions, but so be it. ;)