Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Hardware => Video Cards, Monitors & Displays => Topic started by: supernova777 on February 14, 2014, 07:32:16 PM
-
The Nvidia Quadro series[1] of AGP, PCI, and PCI Express graphics cards comes from the Nvidia Corporation. The cards' designers aimed to accelerate CAD (Computer-Aided Design) and DCC (digital content creation), and the Quadro series cards are usually featured in workstations (compared to the Nvidia GeForce product line, which specifically targets computer gaming). Competing products include the FirePro line of workstation graphics cards by AMD (made formerly by ATI Technologies, Inc.). Companies such as Matrox and Avid also focus on specialized hardware-accelerated graphics cards intended primarily for DCC.--wikipedia
for mac os 9 compatibility : anything lower then the 900 XGL (no "80" models - the "8" refers to AGP8x which the g4's are not)
for mac os 9 performance : the 700 XGL, 750 XGL + 900 XGL are the best cards (out of the 100% compatible ones because they are a match for the ti4400, ti4600)
but perhaps the 550XGL may be a good performer for those who want no fan 100% silent card
im assuming these cards can be flashed to their geforce ppc counterparts!!
QUADRO(GPU) == GEFORCE lookup table
Quadro(NV10GL) == GeForce 256
Quadro2 MXR(NV11GL) == GeForce2 MX
Quadro2 EX(NV11GL) == GeForce2 MX
Quadro2 Pro(NV15GL) == GeForce2 Ti http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=122&card2=332
Quadro DCC(NV20GL) == GeForce3 Ti http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=132&card2=333
550XGL(NV17GL) == GeForce4 MX440(4x) (silent) http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=127&card2=490
580XGL(NV18GL) == GeForce4 MX440(8x)
700XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4400(4x)(64mb ram) http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=136&card2=489
750XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4400(4x)(128mb ram) http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=136&card2=486
900XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4600(4x)(128mb ram)(preferred) (p83) http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=135&card2=334
780XGL(NV28GL) == Ti4400(8x)(128mb ram)(gpureview.com lists this card as 4x but im sure the "8" denotes 8x)
980XGL(NV28GL) == Ti4600(8x)(128mb ram)
FX500 (NV34GL) == FX5200 (P118)
FX700 (NV31GL) == FX5600 (p162)
FX1000(NV30GL) == FX5800
FX1100(NV36GL) == FX5700 (p190?)
FX2000(NV30GL) == FX5800 (p128)
FX3000(NV35GL) == FX5900
FX4000(NV40gL) == Geforce 6800
FX550(NV43GL) == Geforce 6600
FX560(G73GL) == Geforce 7600
FX570(G84) == Geforce 8600
FX580(G96) == 9400/9500
see full chart : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Quadro
While the Quadros have all the same features of the GeForce4, the Quadro4 cards include additional OpenGL functions not found in the consumer GeForce4 cards, such as hardware overlay and clipping planes.
search ebay for "nvidia p83"
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.XP83+nvidia&_nkw=P83+nvidia&_sacat=0&_from=R40
and u can find the appropriate ti4600 equivelent with dual dvi or dvi/vga variants for 10-30$
amongst the occasional idiot trying to sell the 10year+ tech for 250$ per card (facepalm)
if u pay attention to the dvi/vga ports + capacitors u can tell which one is the 900xgl/4600 variety
vs the 700/750/ti4200/ti4400 variety
found this info on nvidia part numbers:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Guide-to-nVidia-Video-Card-Model-Numbering-System-/10000000010410734/g.html
x1xx-x2xx : very low end, embedded (ie: geforce 6 series 6200)
x3xx-x5xx : low end, "mainstream" (ie: geforce FX 5500)
x6xx : midrange (ie: 5600, 6600, 7600)
x8xx : high end (ie: 5800, 6800, 7800)
x9xx : higher end (ie: fx 5900, 7900)
nVidia-Quadro4-700XGL-64MB
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzMxWDE1NzE=/z/BGIAAOxydlFS5n~C/$_57.JPG)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/nVidia-Quadro4-700XGL-64MB-180-10080-0000-A04-P80-graphics-card-E21-/291066669719?pt=US_CD_DVD_Blu_Ray_Drives&hash=item43c4ecea97
this card.. i've noticed uses the same GPU chip as the geforce 4 ti4600but would probably be available much cheaper due to not being as prominently known and there is a modified rom for it on macelite site. id bet it works with the same geforce drivers in mac os 9!!! although it does have 64mb ram instead of 128mb on the geforce 4 ti 4600.. but the memory is more about swapping + thruput i thik rather then a factor in actual speed of performance
as ive read japamac say the radeon 9800 128mb is no less fast the the 256mb version etc
note: there was also the 980XGL in the same "NV25" family but that card was AGP 8x, therefore would require taping pins? where the 700XGL is 4x and would be 100% compatible with 4x agp powermacs on closer look perhaps the 980XGL is more of a match up wiith the ti4600 xcept its 8x agp... and maybe the 700xgl is more of a match for the ti4400 ? either way they are all in the same gpu family, perhaps just clocked at different speeds/different ram sizes
The NVIDIA Quadro®4 XGL series sets the standard for professional graphics by delivering breakthrough application performance, graphics programmability and multi-display productivity. No other graphics vendor is able to deliver a top-to-bottom suite of workstation products, all certified by more professional applications than any other workstation graphics solution in the industry. Every NVIDIA Quadro4 product features NVIDIA's revolutionary nView(TM) multi-display technology—for improved productivity for every workstation professional. - See more at: http://www.nvidia.ca/page/quadro4xgl.html#sthash.N0dNog4m.dpuf --nvidia site about the XGL series
overview pdf
http://www.nvidia.ca/object/LO_20020215_7302.html
(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/quadro700XGL.PNG)(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/quadro980XGL.PNG)
(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/gf4ti4400.PNG)(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/gf4ti4600.PNG)
yes as u can see the numbers line up that way ! 4400 = 700xgl, 4600 == 980xgl, even the ram sizes + speeds are identical
then i noticed: the nvidia quadro4 780xgl
(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/quadro4780XGL.PNG)(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/quadro4750XGL.PNG)
this one uses the next step up gpu NV28 (http://www.gpureview.com/nvidia-nv28-chip-38.html) vs the 750xgl still using the nv25
but is still agp 4x where the other nv28's are all agp 8x and also features 128mb ofvram
notice also it came out in november 2002,10mths after the ti4600..
same gpu as the GeForce4 Ti4800 but in 4x agp (4x agp ensure total compatibility with 4x powermac g4 no need to tape pins)
HERE WE HAVE IT
this card .. is both agp 4x.. + same numbers as Ti4600!
(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/quadro4900XGL.PNG)(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/gf4ti4600.PNG)
but less well known.. and probably easier to find a deal on
it also appears this card is DUAL DVI! remember the quadro series were for professional graphics workstations in the pro market
and geforce was aimed at consumer entertainment gaming thats why these ones are dual dvi!
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjE1WDk5Mw==/z/GCEAAOxyUrZS6yOC/$_57.JPG)
(http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2003/01/23/old_hand_meets_young_firebrand/nvidia_slot.jpg)
checking ebay i see a good number of these cards available .. from dell + ibm systems
(http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mfo7WosCpm6uE7AImsqukbg.jpg)
only problem is there is no rom file posted for the 900 XGL - if it doesnt work automatically that is..
but ive foudn other rom flashers referencing the card + references to mac version of the card so the rom must exist!
remember the geforce 4 cards are compatible with aLL POWERMAC G4's every model across teh board.. and all compatible with mac os 9.
(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/quadroAGP.PNG)
-
http://www.gpureview.com/quadro-fx-1100-card-337.html
(http://www.gpureview.com/database/images/cards/337/large/nvidia-quadro-fx-1100.jpg)
this card is powered by NV36 gpu similar to the geforce fx 5700 ... and features dual dvi ports
although it says agp 8x it seems to have the notiches on the card to indicate 2x + 4x compatibility
400mhz+core clock
from late 2003
seems to be the last AGP card in the Quadro series as the next card in series, the fx 1300 is PCI-E, (early adoption to pci-e as this was midway in 2005 can be attributed to the pro 3d workstation nature of the quadro series)
heres a comparison to the geforce4 ti4600
(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/Quadrofx1100_vs_gf4ti4600.PNG)
seems to be almost comparable but the ti4600 came out early 2002 and the quadrofx1100 .. very late in 2003.
almost a 2 year update
question is: are these cards mac compatible?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-XW8000-nVidia-Quadro-FX1100-AGP-2xDVI-128MB-Card-351382-001-350968-001-USA-/161175394294?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item2586cd57f6
this listing shows many for sale from a seller called "macstuff4sale"
25$ seems to be a pretty decent deal;)
to put this in perspective.. do a similar search now on ebay for the cards that this card just slightly outperforms..
cards such as :
Radeon 9800 XT
Radeon 9800 Pro
Radeon x800 SE
and youll see prices alot higher.. but the specs are slightly better on the fx1100.. and its release date is also newer
also the NV36 chips are listed as compatible with 10.5.x hackintosh distributions and would probably work for 10.6.x too
-
QUADRO(GPU) == GEFORCE
580XGL(NV18GL) == Geforce4 MX440
700XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4200(4x)
750XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4400(4x)
900XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4600(4x)(preferred)
780XGL(NV28GL) == Ti4200(8x)
980XGL(NV28GL) == Ti4800(8x)
FX500 (NV34GL) == FX5200
FX700 (NV31GL) == FX5600
FX1000(NV30GL) == FX5800
FX1100(NV36GL) == FX5700
FX2000(NV30GL) == FX5800
FX3000(NV35GL) == FX5900
FX4000(NV40gL) == Geforce 6800
im realizing if you do a search for "nvidia p83" you can find these cards for like 10-15$!!!!!!! -afro-
as they were bundled with some ibm + dell systems and people are scrapping these old corporate machines or selling them off in auctions and the people
selling the parts have no idea what the cards are etc so they just liquidate ;)
so if ur going to do this search for "p83" u will get any of these 4 cards coming up
u can see by these pics here the 700-series ones are DVI/VGA
whereas the 900-series ones are DVI/DVI
and if the numbers end in "80" they are the NV28 gpu instead of the NV25
clearly the 780 + 980 were introduced at a later date to the original set
nvidia-quadro4-700-xgl
(http://www.gpureview.com/database/images/cards/489/large/nvidia-quadro4-700-xgl.jpg)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTMzWDE2MDA=/z/qBoAAOxydlFSvXgA/$_57.JPG)
quadro4-750-xgl
(http://www.gpureview.com/database/images/cards/486/large/nvidia-quadro4-750-xgl.jpg)
(http://images.esellerpro.com/2131/I/477/37/DCP_4671.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzQ2WDEwMDA=/z/tzAAAOxygPtS6Ejv/$_57.JPG)
nvidia-quadro4-780-xgl
(http://www.gpureview.com/database/images/cards/493/large/nvidia-quadro4-780-xgl.jpg)
nvidia-quadro4-900-xgl
(http://www.gpureview.com/database/images/cards/334/large/nvidia-quadro4-900-xgl.jpg)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY5WDEwMjQ=/z/6ukAAOxyVLNS303L/$_20.JPG)
Geforce4 ti4600
(http://www.ixbt.com/video/images/gf4/gf4-4600-card-front.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/NVIDIA_GeForce4_Ti_4600_Mac.jpg)
quadro4-980-xgl
(http://www.gpureview.com/database/images/cards/335/large/nvidia-quadro4-980-xgl.jpg)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/hNsAAOxycmBS6u0C/$_57.JPG)
these pics arent entirely accurate .. because the capacitors are actually different per model
Fx3000 (FX5900 Equivelant, similar to a radeon x800 XL) NV35GL @ 400 MHz, 27.2 GB/s 8x AGP
(http://www.ixbt.com/3d-profcard/fx3000/quadrofx3000-scan-front.jpg)
Fx4000 (6800GT Equivelant, similar in specs to a 7800GS aswell) NV40GL @375 MHz, 32GB/s 8x AGP
(http://www.cadalyst.com/files/cadalyst/nodes/2004/5020/i2.jpg)
wow here u can see the original prices..2000$+ .. insane!
(http://hothardware.com/reviews/images/quadrofx3k/lineup.png)
-
(http://www.macos9lives.com/downloads/_img/gfx/geforcefx5700_vs_quadroFX1100.PNG)
QUADRO FX1100 AGP == equal to an upgraded geforce 5 series FX5700 AGP
NOTE THESE ARE 8X AGP CARDS WHICH MUST BE FLASHED + TAPES PINNED FOR G4'S IF THEY EVEN WORK AT ALL (which id like to find out) statistically slightly above a 9700 pro with dual dvi
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350968-002-HP-VIDEO-QDRFX1100-12MBAGPNWFN-CARD-128MB-433513001-AGP-1100-QUADRO-F-/321267795399?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item4acd0d85c7
here u can find quadro fx1100 AGP cards (NV36 @425 MHz 10.4)
for 8$ each.. these cards support dual dvi monitors as well they will support core image in mac os x (because they are NV34 + up. NV34 was the fx5200)
question is can they be recognized with or without flash!! for $8 if i have a pc with an agp slot + a pci video card (so u can see what your doing when u flash)
it might be worth 8$ to check it out..
More than 10 available
originally 900$ (LOL!)
to put this in perspective - check this auction by these assholes "apple macanix" charging 350$ for a FX 5600 dual dvi
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-nVidia-Quadro-FX-5600-1-5GB-Dual-DVI-Video-Graphics-Card-661-4461-/281067915278?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item4170f4080e
this card runs on NV31 gpu chip.. the one i linked above for $8 runs on the NV36 gpu chip
from what i gathered on the documentation about the 10.5.x hackintosh supported cards.. its not reccomended for use with anything les then nv34..
this will show u how fucked up these sellers are to be selling these graphic cards "FOR MAC" because they flashed them.. and charging 350$ for a card thats worse then
the next card up which is being liquidated for free almost..
unbelievable some of these people on ebay!!!!!!!!!! makes me want to punch em in the face !!!!!!!!!!!!
if u check his seller info u can see this guy also sells lego /playmobil toys?? wtf?
u know this guy is making his entire living off ripping people liek you and me off 100%
charging 150-350$ for video cards he probably gets for 40$
im surprised he doesnt get sued for using the apple logo + likeness to promote his "Refurb" flashed cards
-
syntho did u ever try flashing the quadra card to a mac ti 4600??
-
The GeForce4 derived Quadro4 cards use what is internally known as the NV25GL core; likewise, GeForce4 MX derived cards use the NV17GL core. As we mentioned before, the GL suffix actually indicates a different piece of silicon with a larger transistor count and die size than its desktop counterpart.
If there is a Mac ROM for the Quadro4 700 gfx and works in Mac Os 9, may be the Quadro4 900 gfx could be successfully Mac Flashed as it is more similar to a ti4600 ... despite this GL sufix...
-
The GeForce4 derived Quadro4 cards use what is internally known as the NV25GL core; likewise, GeForce4 MX derived cards use the NV17GL core. As we mentioned before, the GL suffix actually indicates a different piece of silicon with a larger transistor count and die size than its desktop counterpart.
If there is a Mac ROM for the Quadro4 700 gfx and works in Mac Os 9, may be the Quadro4 900 gfx could be successfully Mac Flashed as it is more similar to a ti4600 ... despite this GL sufix...
i suspected this before which is why i told both Syntho + Diehard to buy Quadro FX 900 cards
they both bought them off ebay for 20-25$ each, so they both have the cards neccessary to test..so if u have any specific instructions
figured out on what to do to test i suggest u forward that info to them, if they would be interested in trying.. i dont see why they wouldnt... the only thing stopping them is knowing wtf to do to flash the cards.
i had intended on getting one for myself locally (to save shipping charges) but the deal fell thru and the guy stopped responding to my emails!! otherwise i would have tried myself!
-
... the only thing stopping them is knowing wtf to do to flash the cards.
- Place the Video Card inside an AGP PC.
- Make a MS DOS bootable device.
- Flash the card with nvFlash with the Ti4600 Mac ROM or the Quadro 700 Mac ROM.
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nvflash-basics
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/faq/id-1872554/flash-gpu-bios-nvflash.html
-
I'm bidding on ebay for one of those Quadro4 900 GLX cards...
... If the above procedure isn't successful we have to edit the ROM. A key point will be identify and compare the VRAM chips of those Quadro cards against the original Apple Nvidia Ti 4600.
-
im fairly confident it is possible ;D
(http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2003/01/23/old_hand_meets_young_firebrand/nvidia_slot.jpg)
DUAL DVI!! NV25 ti4600 graphics!!
its a dream come true;) we all deserve to have the best mac os 9 has to offer.. based on our efforts ;D
-
I hope to have one of those cards in my hands at the end of the next week...
... to start the tests.
let's see how it goes ... ;D
-
http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html
japamac linked this document from his graphics page re: pci-e g5's
i think it applies to all tho
a general comparison between the two lines.. geforce vs quadro
-
First attempt : Failed :'(
-
more info please..? which did not work
using which card?
nvidia-quadro4-900-xgl ?
using which rom?
-
more info please..? which did not work
The mac startup but the screen is black ( on both DVI connectors).
And the PC can't start up with this card installed. So this is an end game for me.
using which card?
nvidia-quadro4-900-xgl ?
Yes, the nVidia Quadro4 900 XGL
using which rom?
the Mac nVidia Ti 4600 ROM.
I had to use NVFLASH 4.4.6 (attached) because 5.x versions can't recognize this card.
some screenshots:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=681.0;attach=1574)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=681.0;attach=1572)
-
Did you tested only on MDD?
Were the DVI converted to VGA?
Did you do the http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11 (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11) ?
-
he shouldnt have to do the pins its a 4x agp card
-
Did you tested only on MDD?
No, I've tested it on a Sawtooth too.
Were the DVI converted to VGA?
DVI "direct" and VGA through a DVI to VGA adapter.
-
realy sucks that this didnt work easily :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
-
realy sucks that this didnt work easily :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
The card remains "damaged". The PC can't start up with this card installed, so it can't be repaired from here. Installed on a Mac Os X machine and starts normally (without video out of course). I've unsuccessfully tried to reflash it again via VNC but "a non working card can't be flashed" in Mac Os X with Zeus or Graphiccelerator :(
I have also tried to mod the firmware as explained here:
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nv-rom
But I only achieve to edit the Device ID, I couldn't find the Timings Table codes ...
-
so.. u cant start up with a pci graphics card and flash the agp back with its original bios rom?
something is preventing a boot while the card is connected? even when you set bios to initialize pci card graphics first?
wow.. thats bullshit!!
-
What if you put a AGP card that works in the AGP slot. Use a pci to agp converter (or a riser card) to flash the one that doesn't work?
http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/attachments/576676d1346094326-projekt-agp-1-0-pci-adapter-adapter_1.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/310390611094?lpid=82
-
so.. u cant start up with a pci graphics card and flash the agp back with its original bios rom?
Yeah. this is a big problem...
something is preventing a boot while the card is connected? even when you set bios to initialize pci card graphics first?
wow.. thats bullshit!!
I can't even access to PC Bios if the card is installed. >:(
What if you put a AGP card that works in the AGP slot. Use a pci to agp converter (or a riser card) to flash the one that doesn't work?
http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/attachments/576676d1346094326-projekt-agp-1-0-pci-adapter-adapter_1.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/310390611094?lpid=82
There isn't need of this PCI to AGP converter/riser card, because I have screen access to the computer without a working video card, through VNC connection. Furthermore I don't know if those devices will work.
-
the only option u have is to reprogram the flash on the card from a hardware programmer to restore the original bios rom then
which would require removing the chip + reprogramming + resoldering
max1zz could probably do it
but.. is it worth it
-
did anyone ever try the quadro fx 900?
a friend has one of these cards laying around:
https://www.ebay.com/p/NVIDIA-QUADRO-FX-900-50171-0100-000-Model-P171-Video-Dual-DVI/1426233853
has anyone ever tried to get it to work in a mac g4?
sorry - heres a better image:
https://www.amazon.com/Nvidia-P171-Quadro0-Video-Graphics/dp/B00NW28HD0
-
sorry my mistake -- i thought it had the NV25GL GPU chip inside but i think now that it does not.
the idea being that those cards might be close enough to the Geforce 4 TI series cards (which are powered by the NV25 (non-GL) GPU...
ive attached some screenshots from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Quadro#Desktop_AGP
to illustrate the cards that i mistook the above card for
keeping In Mind that MacTron had ordered a Quadro4 900 XGL card once upon a time and that his efforts did not end in success; im wondering if anyone else has explored the possibility of flashing these cards for use with mac?
does anyone have any of the original specs on the Quadro4 series?? were they PC-only? given that these cards were introduced in the beginning of 2002 i find it hard to believe that they wouldnt have made any "mac-edition" cards? or never had any drivers that supported MacOS9- which was still very much in use by most of the professional world at that point in time
maybe it is useless,
checking this link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20020203152629/http://www.nvidia.com:80/view.asp?PAGE=quadro
doesnt show any mac drivers at all for the "workstation" gpus
https://web.archive.org/web/20020204021102/http://www.nvidia.com:80/view.asp?page=drivers
looking under "other Drivers" shows nothing aswell;
https://web.archive.org/web/20020202190515/http://www.nvidia.com:80/view.asp?PAGE=pg_20010606588572
beos + os/2? but no mac .. :(
heres the mac page a bit further on in june of 2002
https://web.archive.org/web/20020604023225/http://www.nvidia.com:80/view.asp?PAGE=macintosh
-
I can speak with some knowledge of the subject.
The nVidia Fcode Rom has a GPU check in the FCode, and will abort if it finds that the card has a GPU that differs from the one the FCode is checking for. Editing the Device ID is not enough, you must remove the GPU check from the Fcode or Open Firmware will not continue to execute the code and you'll never get display from the card.
The Geforce 6200 Rom has this check removed, as it was made from the OEM 6600 Rom.
Arti Itra is really the FCode Guru, and knew just about anything you would ever want to know about nVidia FCode Rom's. He made Roms for the other FX5xxx cards as well as some of the 4xxx cards.
It can be done, any Geforce or Quadro baseed on 2/3/4/5/6 can be flashed to Mac cards, if you know how to edit the ROM. Drivers for Mac OS 9 are another matter. We never really cared about OS 9 to test what works and what doesn't, people wanted to use quartz extreme and core image.
The nVstrap at 0x58 is a fickle bitch, it is an And/Or mask of the resister positions of the card. You are mostly safe if you copy the entire string, with the checksum byte from the PC ROM into the Mac ROM you want to flash, but sometimes things go wrong and the card pulls the disappearing act and will no longer boot in a PC to be reflashed, nor will it show up in a Mac.
You have to lift the ground pin from the EEPROM, and connect a switch, or two wires to it, put it in a PC, boot up, with the ground disconnected and once booted, make the connection. Then you can flash the card back to a good rom.
Knowing how to edit the nVstrap is key, and remembering to give it a valid Checksum byte.
I found with some cards I had to set the nVstrap to ignore the position of the resisters on the graphics card that determine the amount of VRam and use the strap to override it.
You can also append the last half byte of the Device ID in the strap, but if you pick a ID that isn't really valid, then you'll likely be lifting the ground pin the the EEPOM.
Most Geforce cards can be appended to Quadro Device ID's via the nVstrap, and likewise a Quadro card can be appended to a Geforce device ID. Tho if you append the Device ID, you'll have to edit the Device ID in the Rom too, or Open Firmware will find a mismatch and never execute the Fcode ROM. That's not the same as the GPU check, the Open Firmware to PCI Bus bindings state that if an Fcode rom's Device ID( in the PCI header ) doesn't match the ID of the Card, it will not execute the Option ROM.
OS X has support for almost a Quadro cards up to the point that they quit making PPC OS X, but no Quadro features were ever enabled, other than the physical stereo 3D mini din , so the cards will not preform any better than a Geforce Card at the same clock speed.
The Geforce 5200 was the first nVidia chip that had a TMDS in the GPU, but it had weak signal, so driving high res dispalys from the 5200's internal TMDS can be problematic. The Apple OEM Geforce 5200 Ultra used two external TMDS's to drive each display. Some reference design PC 5200 Ultra's had two external TMDS's.
With cards older than the 5200, mostly all use external TMDS so it's a safe bet that if the card has two digital outputs, they can both be made to work correctly with the Mac OS.
Other cards from the FX5xxx family may also suffer from the weak internal TMDS, so it you want to flash one, try and make sure it has two external TMDS's if you want to drive two digital display. With the 5700 Arti found the card didn't preform as it should, was very slow, so no rom was ever published.
I never had any trouble driving digital displays, even Dual Link with 6600/7800.
There is also a monitor definitions section in the FCode ROM, so if your display outputs are not the same as the card the Fcode rom was made for, you'll likely need to edit that if display don't work as expected.
-
nice post darth;
its been awhile since i visited the macelite + strange dogs sites
http://www.cybercoment.com/macgeforce.htm
http://strangedogs.proboards.com
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/ati-flash
http://web.archive.org/web/20071018043332/http://www.themacelite.com/
the strangedogs site looks like its not even up but if u register and get in they have all the posts from the old forum archived there
i think they moved from a different forum software to this proboards thing. i was gonna check wayback machine for the old site but i forget the old url
-
wait..
i dont remember seeing a rom for the 700 XGL quadro posted here last time?!!!! is this page still being updated? possibly?
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2
this proves that the XGL series CAN be made to work
i knew it! 8) 8)
mactron did you throw out the 900 XGL that you had?
-
mactron did you throw out the 900 XGL that you had?
Yes, I still have it. Alongside a Grainward Ti4600 also damaged. :(
-
really wow..
so there is no dual-dvi PC card that works to be flashed succesfully?
-
really wow..
so there is no dual-dvi PC card that works to be flashed succesfully?
That seems to be the point nowadays ... :'(
-
The PC Grainward Ti4600 seems to be the most similar to the Mac Ti4600, This is what we have under the heatsink:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=681.0;attach=4949;image)
I have flashed it with the Mac Ti4600 ROM and now the card is dead.
-
The PC Grainward Ti4600 seems to be the most similar to the Mac Ti4600, This is what we have under the heatsink:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=681.0;attach=4949;image)
I have flashed it with the Mac Ti4600 ROM and now the card is dead.
Your cards likely are not dead, you need to lift the ground pin and connect a wire to the pad, and one to the pin.
Put the card in a PC with another video card for display. Boot the PC with the two wire circuit you have made open. Once the PC has booted, make the circuit, connect the wires.
Erase the EEPROM with nvflash.
Reboot the PC( don't skip this step ).
Flash the card back with the original Bios, or another known good Bios.
Test the card, if all goes well, reconnect the ground pin.
Post you PC VGA Bios here, and I'll look at it.
-
About the nVstrap:
Softsraps (introduced I believe with FX series) are in addition to hard straps (or those resistors), so AND mask determines if the hardstrap gets preserved or not the OR mask if the strap gets added.
Other way to look at it is AND mask allows you to set that bit to "0" OR mask to "1". If you do neither (AND mask 1, OR mask 0) original strapping (be it 0 or 1) stays.
For example, if you want to get rid of all the hardstaps and write your own, you'll set the AND mask to all "0"s and the OR mask to whatever strapping you desire.
3F C0 00 7E (AND mask)
80 20 C0 80 (OR mask)
00 00 00 00 (AND mask, we don't know what these are)
10 00 00 80 (OR mask)
22 00 A5 (Should this not be 4 bytes??? The last one being the CheckSum)
Also, the tvmode has me confused, how can it = 3(Disabled) when it's only 2 bits?
PCI DID how is this calculated?
What are these?
FP_IFACE
BR_
Would you give an example of calcutation of the CheckSum?
22 00 A5 (Should this not be 4 bytes??? The last one being the CheckSum)
The 4th byte is the checksum, i.e. the one after A5.
PCI DID how is this calculated?
It doesn't. It's interpretation depends on the GPU.
What are these?
FP_IFACE
BR_
Flatpanel interface width and the other one I don't know.
Would you give an example of calcutation of the CheckSum?
Lets take 80 20 C0 80, add them together = 1E0, discardd anything above 8 bits = E0. -E0 = 20. The checksum is 20.
Got it, so the CheckSum for 3F C0 00 7E 80 20 C0 80 00 00 00 00 10 00 00 80
22 00 A5 = 4C
How can I use this to change the DID?
You have to experiment. It probably makes it easier if you AND mask out the existing strap and then see what all of those 4 values give you.
BTW if you want to write the new strapping for the ROMs you may want to use the same approach. "0" it out via AND mask and set it with OR mask.
You could get the correct strapping from your OEM card, but that means erasing the ROM and I have no idea how you can get the ROM back as you'd need a PC with AGP Pro slot.
18 BR_ENABLED /BR_DISABLED
Don't fool with this one, I think I made my card pull the no show in a PC and Mac with this one.
Now I'll have to find the Sub_Vendor pin to flash it back, unless you know how to lift one of the pin on an 8-pin serial eprom.
-
we need a master list of all different Geforce 4 TI cards/manufacturers
ABIT Siluro GeForce4 Ti 4400
ASUS V8440/TD GeForce4 Ti 4400
MSI G4Ti 4400-VTD (MS-8871)
Visiontek Xtasy GeForce4 Ti 4400
Chaintech GeForce4 Ti 4600
eVGA e-GeForce4 Ti 4600
Gainward GeForce4 Ultra/750XP
MSI G4Ti 4600-VTD (MS-8872)
Visiontek Xtasy GeForce4 Ti 4600
-
i had a card that i flashed that i thought was DEAD! and it turned out i was able to flash it again after some time.. im not sure why.. maybe because i used a different motherboard to actually flash the card.. that was my thought at the time because i couldnt explain how the card wouldnt even allow the machine to start in one machine and then later on i was able to put in a different board + Reflash
this is a vague memory from a few years ago (2015?)