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Author Topic: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.  (Read 14789 times)

indibil

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2024, 11:42:43 PM »

Thanks for your help. :)

I've asked a few questions on 68kMLA but don't usually get a response.

indibil

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2024, 02:52:13 AM »

Hello. I did the CPU SWAP to another Mac Mini G4 1.42GHz at 7447B@1667, as on the previous computer, and this time I set the multiplier to 2GHz. And the result has been favorable, the Mini starts and is stable, with the copper heatsink. You have some more information here:

https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2024/04/mac-mini-g4-2ghz.html

 :)

aBc

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2024, 09:24:20 AM »

Yes @indibil, you are crazy (we know).
But crazy, the "good kind". ;)

Only wish I had time to try this overclock with a stock 1.5 GHz.
(As I can only imagine OS 9 running @ 2 GHz on a G4 Mac mini.)

Congrats and thanks for sharing!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2024, 10:57:49 AM by aBc »
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smilesdavis

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2024, 10:32:40 AM »

thats totally amazing and superhero material

please leave some women for the rest of us
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indibil

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2024, 10:45:21 AM »

thats totally amazing and superhero material

please leave some women for the rest of us

Women don't approach computer geeks, lol, neither for you nor for me ((in a humorous tone)),  ;D.

Yes @indibil, you are crazy (we know).But crazy, the "good kind". ;)
Only wish I had time to try this overclock with a stock 1.5 GHz.(As I can only imagine OS 9 running @ 2 GHz on a G4 Mac mini.)
Congrats and thanks for sharing!


I have a Mini 1.5GHz - 64MB ready to test, I just need to find the right day with a clear mind. And make another copper heatsink.

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2024, 11:26:31 AM »

Great job! I need to get myself a Mac Mini G4 again :D
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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2024, 12:04:15 PM »

can you show us what heatsink was modded and how?
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Jubadub

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2024, 12:39:10 PM »

Consider getting a 7448 processor for your mini: you will get twice the L2 cache, and it runs cooler at 2GHz!

Search topics in MacRumors PPC subforum for this. You will get extra assistance from there with this.
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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2024, 06:00:05 PM »

Consider getting a 7448 processor for your mini: you will get twice the L2 cache, and it runs cooler at 2GHz!

Has someone actually done this 7448 swap in a G4 Mac mini? I can’t find any reference on MacRumors about this, other than @sailorMH commenting about the evolutionary MPC86xx replacing the 7448 and that the use of the MPC86xx was impossible.

@indibil specifically chose the MC7447B 1.67 GHz to swap with his original MC7447B 1.25 GHz in hope of not needing a firmware update when overclocking to 1.92 GHz. Later he did change the voltage (and the heatsink to copper) in order to stabilize that mini. (No small tasks in and of themselves - but very tiny, tiny work.) And now, he has achieved 2 GHz in what once was a 1.42 GHz mini with yet another 7447B 1.67 GHz CPU reball swap.

@indibil did express interest in a 7448 (1.2, 1.4 and 1.7 GHz) CPU from @JoyBed back in March of this year, so maybe we’ll see even faster than 2.0 GHz attained with the mini???

indibil and sailorMH’s Mac mini convo begins here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-7448-and-7457-swap.2233532/page-11?post=32773721#post-32773721
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indibil

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2024, 10:41:04 PM »

Consider getting a 7448 processor for your mini: you will get twice the L2 cache, and it runs cooler at 2GHz!

Has someone actually done this 7448 swap in a G4 Mac mini? I can’t find any reference on MacRumors about this, other than @sailorMH commenting about the evolutionary MPC86xx replacing the 7448 and that the use of the MPC86xx was impossible.

@indibil specifically chose the MC7447B 1.67 GHz to swap with his original MC7447B 1.25 GHz in hope of not needing a firmware update when overclocking to 1.92 GHz. Later he did change the voltage (and the heatsink to copper) in order to stabilize that mini. (No small tasks in and of themselves - but very tiny, tiny work.) And now, he has achieved 2 GHz in what once was a 1.42 GHz mini with yet another 7447B 1.67 GHz CPU reball swap.

@indibil did express interest in a 7448 (1.2, 1.4 and 1.7 GHz) CPU from @JoyBed back in March of this year, so maybe we’ll see even faster than 2.0 GHz attained with the mini???

indibil and sailorMH’s Mac mini convo begins here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-7448-and-7457-swap.2233532/page-11?post=32773721#post-32773721

Consider getting a 7448 processor for your mini: you will get twice the L2 cache, and it runs cooler at 2GHz!

Search topics in MacRumors PPC subforum for this. You will get extra assistance from there with this.

I don't have that much hope. I was talking to JoyBed about getting some 7448s, but halfway through the conversation, he didn't get back to me, so there won't be any 7448s for now.

I know they have installed it on a Mini, but they had to modify the firmware with a specific patcher for Mini that they made.

Since I made this mod to the Mac Mini G4 by raising the CPU current limit, they don't usually respond to me, I guess I have entered the realm of the gods being a mere mortal.

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2024, 12:12:37 AM »

As a owner of a standard 1.42 Ghz Mac Mini G4 I tip my hat in respect for your successful modification. I'm far too untalented for hardware mods, but watch with great awe what people are able to come up with. Now all you need to do is to scale up production of these units and sell them on ebay for insane amounts before you retire ;-)
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Jubadub

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2024, 12:17:17 AM »

@aBc Yeah, there's a thread (multiple threads?) from some years ago they got the 7448 in. I have to dig them up, it's been years I spent any time on MacRumors PPC. Like @indibil said, though, there's firmware patching involved. I forgot if it was the same patching also needed for any Mac OS 9 hardware with a 7448, and/or if there was also flashing of the mini's ROM. IIRC we did have to flash it, I think with a PowerMac10,1 (mini 1.25GHz / 1.42GHz models) ROM modified by dosdude1 so that the partial 7448 support in ROM would be not just partial, but complete. The side-effect of using the ROM, again IIRC, is that things like the serial number of the mini were also changed to dosdude1's mini. And, of course, PowerMac10,2 minis (1.33GHz / 1.5GHz) would be changed to PowerMac10,1's firmware, but that is actually a good thing, since our Mac OS 9 port for the mini works much, much better with the original minis, and that may perhaps improve them to work the same.

In any case, @indibil, don't give up the dream! Be patient with them. I almost "hired" JoyBed to do CPU resoldering for me years ago, as well, the only reason I didn't being the fact that I had to leave Europe along with nearly all my Mac hardware... But he's a cool guy. There's also an US-based guy that does what he does (forgot his name, he made a dual 7448 2.0GHz MDD daughtercard and a dual 7457 1.67GHz MDD one as well for me, as per my directions, which were never able to be shipped to me, and so at least the 7448 one silently went to Action Retro, of all people, instead...). To do it with regular MDD daughtercards, he used an tiny interposer board between the CPU and the socket so that the 7455/7457 processor pinnings they expect are remapped to the 7447/7448's pinnings (I made threads on MacRumors PPC about that, as well). Joybed is aware of his work, and years ago he showed interest in doing exactly that for MDDs and other Macs, as well.

By the way, regardless of processor, if you do break the 2.0GHz barrier somehow, now THAT would be a first for me. The US-interposer-board-guy tried many, many, many times to go beyond 2.0GHz with the 7448s for my MDDs, but he never seemed to get it to work, or to be stable. If it is possible, you will need some really good 7448s I suspect, by winning the silicon lottery big time. Perhaps what you are doing, which is to change the voltage on the minis, is a key to the answer of achieving that.

@Bolkonskij Transplant every PowerMac with 7448 at 2.0GHz!!!!!! I saw once a Reddit post of someone who did that on their System 7 PowerMac, and System 7 still boots!!!! Of course, it works like a super G3 since the AltiVec portion is ignored on anything before Mac OS 9, or to be pedantic anything before that "G4 Edition" (Sawtooth?) of Mac OS 8.6 that has partial AltiVec support.
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indibil

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2024, 01:20:16 AM »

As a owner of a standard 1.42 Ghz Mac Mini G4 I tip my hat in respect for your successful modification. I'm far too untalented for hardware mods, but watch with great awe what people are able to come up with. Now all you need to do is to scale up production of these units and sell them on ebay for insane amounts before you retire ;-)

It's not that big of a deal.

Between what the Mini would cost me, plus the processor (which is becoming less and less) and then manufacturing the heatsink, the sales price would not be competitive. Besides the fact that I don't have professional equipment, add the eBay commission and shipping....

:)

@aBc Yeah, there's a thread (multiple threads?) from some years ago they got the 7448 in. I have to dig them up, it's been years I spent any time on MacRumors PPC. Like @indibil said, though, there's firmware patching involved. I forgot if it was the same patching also needed for any Mac OS 9 hardware with a 7448, and/or if there was also flashing of the mini's ROM. IIRC we did have to flash it, I think with a PowerMac10,1 (mini 1.25GHz / 1.42GHz models) ROM modified by dosdude1 so that the partial 7448 support in ROM would be not just partial, but complete. The side-effect of using the ROM, again IIRC, is that things like the serial number of the mini were also changed to dosdude1's mini. And, of course, PowerMac10,2 minis (1.33GHz / 1.5GHz) would be changed to PowerMac10,1's firmware, but that is actually a good thing, since our Mac OS 9 port for the mini works much, much better with the original minis, and that may perhaps improve them to work the same.

In any case, @indibil, don't give up the dream! Be patient with them. I almost "hired" JoyBed to do CPU resoldering for me years ago, as well, the only reason I didn't being the fact that I had to leave Europe along with nearly all my Mac hardware... But he's a cool guy. There's also an US-based guy that does what he does (forgot his name, he made a dual 7448 2.0GHz MDD daughtercard and a dual 7457 1.67GHz MDD one as well for me, as per my directions, which were never able to be shipped to me, and so at least the 7448 one silently went to Action Retro, of all people, instead...). To do it with regular MDD daughtercards, he used an tiny interposer board between the CPU and the socket so that the 7455/7457 processor pinnings they expect are remapped to the 7447/7448's pinnings (I made threads on MacRumors PPC about that, as well). Joybed is aware of his work, and years ago he showed interest in doing exactly that for MDDs and other Macs, as well.

By the way, regardless of processor, if you do break the 2.0GHz barrier somehow, now THAT would be a first for me. The US-interposer-board-guy tried many, many, many times to go beyond 2.0GHz with the 7448s for my MDDs, but he never seemed to get it to work, or to be stable. If it is possible, you will need some really good 7448s I suspect, by winning the silicon lottery big time. Perhaps what you are doing, which is to change the voltage on the minis, is a key to the answer of achieving that.

@Bolkonskij Transplant every PowerMac with 7448 at 2.0GHz!!!!!! I saw once a Reddit post of someone who did that on their System 7 PowerMac, and System 7 still boots!!!! Of course, it works like a super G3 since the AltiVec portion is ignored on anything before Mac OS 9, or to be pedantic anything before that "G4 Edition" (Sawtooth?) of Mac OS 8.6 that has partial AltiVec support.

So OS9 works worse on Mini 10.2? for what reasons?

Whoever manufactures and converts to 7448 is "herd", great guy, he usually helps me with my questions. I have some interposers that he sent to me. I'm really grateful. Without a doubt, I managed to raise the current and voltage limit on my Mini thanks to his advice.

I'm just an amateur, a big head, as they say in Spain "Master of many trades, few benefits." In the early 2000s I played a lot with the G4s, I had a pioneering blog in my country and I did many overclocks and mods. But I have many other hobbies and I change depending on the moment or concerns.

Since I don't speak English very well (I use translate a lot) it is difficult for me to understand how to patch the Mini's firmware to be able to run a 7448. But the main problem is acquiring a 7448, I can't do it, I have tried many times and it never works good. So I am limited to the 7447@1667, of which I still have 3 or 4 units.

I only show these achievements so that everyone can do them, I don't do it for praise or anything. And I put it on my blog because this way I make sure that the information is not lost. In recent years I have tried to collect a lot of information that was on forums, but most of it has been lost, especially photos. My blog is a time capsule, everything is preserved there, and I have the photos hosted.

For now I can't get a 7448? Well, it will be someone else who achieves achievements, it doesn't matter, the important thing is that they are made known and everyone can try.

Jubadub

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2024, 02:36:24 AM »

So OS9 works worse on Mini 10.2? for what reasons?

Whoever manufactures and converts to 7448 is "herd", great guy, he usually helps me with my questions. I have some interposers that he sent to me. I'm really grateful. Without a doubt, I managed to raise the current and voltage limit on my Mini thanks to his advice.

I'm just an amateur, a big head, as they say in Spain "Master of many trades, few benefits." In the early 2000s I played a lot with the G4s, I had a pioneering blog in my country and I did many overclocks and mods. But I have many other hobbies and I change depending on the moment or concerns.

Since I don't speak English very well (I use translate a lot) it is difficult for me to understand how to patch the Mini's firmware to be able to run a 7448. But the main problem is acquiring a 7448, I can't do it, I have tried many times and it never works good. So I am limited to the 7447@1667, of which I still have 3 or 4 units.

I only show these achievements so that everyone can do them, I don't do it for praise or anything. And I put it on my blog because this way I make sure that the information is not lost. In recent years I have tried to collect a lot of information that was on forums, but most of it has been lost, especially photos. My blog is a time capsule, everything is preserved there, and I have the photos hosted.

For now I can't get a 7448? Well, it will be someone else who achieves achievements, it doesn't matter, the important thing is that they are made known and everyone can try.

I go through the issues found in the "silent upgrade" + our current port of Mac OS 9 for minis in this comment.

I wonder if "herd" is the same guy, my source wasn't registered at the time we were working together. I would love to get some interposer boards from him, just in case I can somehow get Mac hardware in my current country shipped in, or physically brought in somehow.

For acquiring 7448, you need to pinpoint the exact vendors/users on EBay and the like that reliably source all kinds of processors. I gave my then-current list to my interposer buddy, and told him how to get them for the best prices. I forgot all the details by now, unfortunately, but what I can tell you is that if you keep on looking, and trying different sites/people, you will find them. Most of them come from misc. devices that surprisingly used the 7448, so they got desoldered and sold as is. Much more expensive units usually come from brand-new recently-manufactured sources, since the processor shockingly was still in production back then (circa 2021, no idea now). Preferably go for the processor with the highest binning, for maximum chances of overclocking, as detailed in one of my topics in MacRumors PPC.

If I could do it, you can do it, too. :) I understand your struggle with the language barrier, but trust me, "where there is a will, there is a way". I survived completely alone in Hungary for 9 months without knowing a single drop of Hungarian, and nearly no one there knew the languages I knew, yet I survived that whole period, and was able to communicate, and parse some Hungarian language with time... "To live and to learn", as they say!

Thank you for sharing your achievements! Like you said, it makes it easier for other people to try, and achieve the same. This includes me: I never modded or played around with the MDD anywhere near as much as I originally wanted to, and now I have no physical access to any MDD, but if by any chance I do someday, your findings will be of great help!
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indibil

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2024, 05:32:39 AM »

So OS9 works worse on Mini 10.2? for what reasons?

Whoever manufactures and converts to 7448 is "herd", great guy, he usually helps me with my questions. I have some interposers that he sent to me. I'm really grateful. Without a doubt, I managed to raise the current and voltage limit on my Mini thanks to his advice.

I'm just an amateur, a big head, as they say in Spain "Master of many trades, few benefits." In the early 2000s I played a lot with the G4s, I had a pioneering blog in my country and I did many overclocks and mods. But I have many other hobbies and I change depending on the moment or concerns.

Since I don't speak English very well (I use translate a lot) it is difficult for me to understand how to patch the Mini's firmware to be able to run a 7448. But the main problem is acquiring a 7448, I can't do it, I have tried many times and it never works good. So I am limited to the 7447@1667, of which I still have 3 or 4 units.

I only show these achievements so that everyone can do them, I don't do it for praise or anything. And I put it on my blog because this way I make sure that the information is not lost. In recent years I have tried to collect a lot of information that was on forums, but most of it has been lost, especially photos. My blog is a time capsule, everything is preserved there, and I have the photos hosted.

For now I can't get a 7448? Well, it will be someone else who achieves achievements, it doesn't matter, the important thing is that they are made known and everyone can try.

I go through the issues found in the "silent upgrade" + our current port of Mac OS 9 for minis in this comment.

I wonder if "herd" is the same guy, my source wasn't registered at the time we were working together. I would love to get some interposer boards from him, just in case I can somehow get Mac hardware in my current country shipped in, or physically brought in somehow.

For acquiring 7448, you need to pinpoint the exact vendors/users on EBay and the like that reliably source all kinds of processors. I gave my then-current list to my interposer buddy, and told him how to get them for the best prices. I forgot all the details by now, unfortunately, but what I can tell you is that if you keep on looking, and trying different sites/people, you will find them. Most of them come from misc. devices that surprisingly used the 7448, so they got desoldered and sold as is. Much more expensive units usually come from brand-new recently-manufactured sources, since the processor shockingly was still in production back then (circa 2021, no idea now). Preferably go for the processor with the highest binning, for maximum chances of overclocking, as detailed in one of my topics in MacRumors PPC.

If I could do it, you can do it, too. :) I understand your struggle with the language barrier, but trust me, "where there is a will, there is a way". I survived completely alone in Hungary for 9 months without knowing a single drop of Hungarian, and nearly no one there knew the languages I knew, yet I survived that whole period, and was able to communicate, and parse some Hungarian language with time... "To live and to learn", as they say!

Thank you for sharing your achievements! Like you said, it makes it easier for other people to try, and achieve the same. This includes me: I never modded or played around with the MDD anywhere near as much as I originally wanted to, and now I have no physical access to any MDD, but if by any chance I do someday, your findings will be of great help!

Thanks for your answer. It would be great to know those eBay sellers, because the ones I find don't have stock, they don't ship.

As an addition, I inform you that the Mac Mini 1.5GHz (PowerMac 10.2) is capable of reaching 2GHz without having to change the CPU, just by slightly increasing the voltage and raising the current limit a little, as I did with my other Mini (Adding 330k in parallel to R5 and also to R3). In this link I explain how, but as a novelty, the CORRECT table to adjust the CPU speed, since the one we all used until now is incomplete and can cause instabilities.

https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2024/04/mac-mini-15ghz-modelo-102-2ghz-sin-cpu.html

I appreciate this table and the explanation to herd from https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php.

.


Jubadub

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2024, 01:24:28 AM »

Thanks for your answer. It would be great to know those eBay sellers, because the ones I find don't have stock, they don't ship.

I forgot to mention one important thing: almost all of the 7448 sellers are Chinese. Presumably they go to landfills and desolder all kinds of computer parts and hardware, then they sell them up like that. Nearly all of my sources worked like that, back then. So if you see the seller's items/catalog is a HUGE amount of different computer parts, processors in general and the like, and they have 7448s/7457s, you know you found the right guy. I don't remember anymore, but I think I could buy a bulk of five or so 7448s for something like 25 USD or so. Or was it only 3? I forgot, but I ordered a lot, and helped connect my modder guy to them, too, since he was the one with the skills for the job.
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indibil

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Re: Mac Mini G4 Overclock just because its fun.
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2024, 10:49:21 PM »

Thanks for your answer. It would be great to know those eBay sellers, because the ones I find don't have stock, they don't ship.

I forgot to mention one important thing: almost all of the 7448 sellers are Chinese. Presumably they go to landfills and desolder all kinds of computer parts and hardware, then they sell them up like that. Nearly all of my sources worked like that, back then. So if you see the seller's items/catalog is a HUGE amount of different computer parts, processors in general and the like, and they have 7448s/7457s, you know you found the right guy. I don't remember anymore, but I think I could buy a bulk of five or so 7448s for something like 25 USD or so. Or was it only 3? I forgot, but I ordered a lot, and helped connect my modder guy to them, too, since he was the one with the skills for the job.

Thank you.

I have searched many providers, but I am not having any luck. Many barely have 7447, and none have 7448. I think I have a better chance of winning the lottery than finding a 7448 :)
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