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Author Topic: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio  (Read 2791 times)

MDMA

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FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« on: November 17, 2023, 10:35:16 AM »

So I'm trying to set up a link between my Powerbook G3 running OS 8.5 and my unto date Mac Studio.

I have set up Rumpus Pro 2.0 on the power book and connected it into my router
I have then downloaded "Cyberduck" on my Mac Studio.

Everything connects beautifully and I can see the files fine, the problem starts when I transfer..........If I transfer any file from my Studio M<ac it receives them at my G3 as a document!!!

Any file I send, no matter what extension is received this way, am I missing an important option here??

I am thinking that I could possibly point the G3 to my NAS storage? Could that work?

I'm pretty confused and not really a network wizard, any help would be great please, or any suggestions of a better way of transferring files.
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rvense

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2023, 11:41:52 AM »

Even if the server is a Mac, I don't think FTP transfers the Mac-specific metadata such as resources and file type/creator codes. So you're not transferring all the information needed to identify the file. This is a limitation of FTP and most other internet protocols, and why we usually use .sit or .sit.hqx files to transfer things across the internet.

The best way to transfer files between old Macs and the modern world over LAN is if you can run something called Netatalk on the server. This is an implementation of the Apple Filesharing Protocol.

https://netatalk.sourceforge.io/
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MDMA

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2023, 11:50:03 AM »

Thanks for the info

So is there no way to simply plug an ethernet cable between the two and link them that way? Or even connect my G3 into my nas and link that way??

Sorry if I seem clueless....but I am lol
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IIO

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2023, 12:21:50 PM »

while ftp is included in latr windows and OSX systems, it is not in MacOS9.

and even if it would, i personally would always prefer to use a dedicated server/client software, just as you did.

your files are totally okay, you´re only confused because you do not know OS9 well enough yet.

a program for mac silicon for example can not appear as program in OS9 - and it does not have to. this does not mea it would be broken or something.

MacOS9 almost completely ignores file extensions, they have no technical meaning there.

you might know other situations where documents do appear with the right icon and application-association, but that then is a feature of the ftp server where you downloaded it from and has nothing to do with OS9.

btw, MacOS11 and higher do usually preserve resource forks so that you can upload ancient mac files without breaking them. but it will always be more safe and convienient do use .hqx or .bin as @rvense said, or eventually make toast images.
for long-term storage and for sharing files with other people .sit is preferred, because then everyone can see that it is a mac file and can be brought back to MacOS9 / early OSX without any cosmetic differences.
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rvense

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2023, 01:12:49 PM »

Thanks for the info

So is there no way to simply plug an ethernet cable between the two and link them that way? Or even connect my G3 into my nas and link that way??

Yes! You can connect directlly. Rumpus in your case is turning you Mac Studio into an FTP server. You can use FTP to transfer files, but unless you compress them first in a format that preserves the metadata, some of the info needed won't survive going over FTP. The software I'm suggesting is a different kind of server for a protocol called AFP which supports all the Mac stuff natively, but I think it's a bit nerds-only to get set up so it might not be an option for you. In that case I'd suggest finding a way (and I'm sure someone here will chime in shortly) to compress your files on the Mac Studio to .sit archives and then open them on the G3.

Quote
Sorry if I seem clueless....but I am lol

Clueless is such a negative term. I think we should focus on where I could be if my brain wasn't filled with all this... stuff.
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ssp3

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2023, 01:21:25 PM »

What about Hotline instead of FTP?  ;)
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MDMA

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2023, 01:30:27 PM »

while ftp is included in latr windows and OSX systems, it is not in MacOS9.

and even if it would, i personally would always prefer to use a dedicated server/client software, just as you did.

your files are totally okay, you´re only confused because you do not know OS9 well enough yet.

a program for mac silicon for example can not appear as program in OS9 - and it does not have to. this does not mea it would be broken or something.

MacOS9 almost completely ignores file extensions, they have no technical meaning there.

you might know other situations where documents do appear with the right icon and application-association, but that then is a feature of the ftp server where you downloaded it from and has nothing to do with OS9.

btw, MacOS11 and higher do usually preserve resource forks so that you can upload ancient mac files without breaking them. but it will always be more safe and convienient do use .hqx or .bin as @rvense said, or eventually make toast images.
for long-term storage and for sharing files with other people .sit is preferred, because then everyone can see that it is a mac file and can be brought back to MacOS9 / early OSX without any cosmetic differences.



Thank you for this, I guess things were not quite as simple as I thought.....but guess that's the beauty of the classic machines.

I'm wanting to send over .wav files and some applications, so with the info you've provided I'll look into converting them and give that a bash.....Thanks for taking the time to help.
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MDMA

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2023, 01:35:19 PM »

Clueless is such a negative term. I think we should focus on where I could be if my brain wasn't filled with all this... stuff.

Haha, my head is full of useless stuff I forget on a daily basis and remember at the wrong times!

I did take as look at what you suggested, but I think you're right.....it may be a little above my frustration level lol

Think I'll look into converting the files I need to transfer and see howe I go.

Thanks for the help
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MDMA

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2023, 01:36:15 PM »

What about Hotline instead of FTP?  ;)


I can honestly say I have no knowledge of this, could you explain a little please.
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ssp3

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2023, 01:53:28 PM »

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IIO

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2023, 02:17:40 PM »

hotline is a p2p style program for file transfer and other things. it can under circumstances be easier to operate than ftp programs in a local network. https://preterhuman.net/gethotlinekdx.php
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MDMA

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2023, 02:42:51 PM »

Tonight I have been schooled in the use of FTP

I have an understanding of the limitations and the process of now converting the files in order to export them........this was the key to my misunderstanding, thank you very much for all your help.

I'm going to try the method "ssp3" suggested tomorrow and see where it gets me.
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V.Yakob

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2023, 02:29:44 AM »

I made a note about it earlier, take a look. You should succeed.
Starting in April 2023, the netatalk development team has provided instructions for building the package on macOS. I tried it on my Mac Studio and it works.
If you don't want to build, package and install and configure a bunch of applications for FTP or Hotline, then NFS is your choice.

Use the MacNFS extension on the Mac OS side 7.6 - 9.2.2, and the built-in NFS server on macOS.

Before writing this post, I just checked it, Mac Studio with macOS 14.1.1 communicates via NFS protocol with Power Macintosh 9600 with Mac OS 8.5.1. It works great.
The only thing is that I had to use a third-party USB-C network card on the Mac Studio, because the built-in 10Gbps interface does not communicate with the built-in 10Mbps interface on the PM9600.

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MDMA

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2023, 03:18:13 AM »

I made a note about it earlier, take a look. You should succeed.
Starting in April 2023, the netatalk development team has provided instructions for building the package on macOS. I tried it on my Mac Studio and it works.
If you don't want to build, package and install and configure a bunch of applications for FTP or Hotline, then NFS is your choice.

Use the MacNFS extension on the Mac OS side 7.6 - 9.2.2, and the built-in NFS server on macOS.

Before writing this post, I just checked it, Mac Studio with macOS 14.1.1 communicates via NFS protocol with Power Macintosh 9600 with Mac OS 8.5.1. It works great.
The only thing is that I had to use a third-party USB-C network card on the Mac Studio, because the built-in 10Gbps interface does not communicate with the built-in 10Mbps interface on the PM9600.

This looks fantastic and maybe exactly what I'm looking for as a solution.

Just for clarification, would I use this by linking the two computers via an ethernet cable or is an internet connection still required?


« Last Edit: November 18, 2023, 03:34:24 AM by MDMA »
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V.Yakob

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2023, 06:29:39 AM »

As you like.
I use 2 options, this PM9600 has a Wi-Fi card that works on Mac OS 9.2.2, it connects from a specially created network on the router without encryption, there is Internet. But the connection speed is slow, so it is not suitable for moving large files.
For fast file transfer, it is easier for me to connect the Ethernet cable directly. AFP (netatalk) and NFS provide full data exchange, you can take files and copy them from Mac OS 9.
I prefer to use AFP, because it does not require prior preparation of Mac OS 9.

If you need to transfer the Internet over a direct connection on Mac OS 8/9, share it in macOS 14 settings (Settings -> General - Sharing -> Internet). However, after upgrading to 14.1.1, it stopped working, the DHCP server crashes when any client appears. I hope this will be fixed in the next update.
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IIO

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2023, 07:48:00 AM »

none of these solutions need WAN access, they all work with 2 computers and a cable (or to be exact, even with only one computer)
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chrisNova777

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2023, 12:11:10 PM »

change transfer settings from ascii to binary ftp transfer mode?
use stuffit to encapsulate your files to a zip file, binary transfer mode

id reccommend Fetch https://www.macintoshrepository.org/754-fetch

maybe u dont have the experience to know about all of these nuances from 30 years ago
but this is probably exactly why there is a copy of stuffit expander in the utilities folder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StuffIt_Expander

you cant send "naked" files out from your computer you have to package them up into archive files (zip,sit), encapsulate them as "macBinary" (.bin) using Stuffit which is why you see any mac file downloads posted on the net always had the double extension ".sit.bin" -- then you have to select to transfer via ascii or binary ftp transfer.

if you want to drag + drop files from one to another you need to use a Net-a-talk (AFP) server and mount an AFP share (network drive) via the chooser using Appletalk over TCPIP or whatever. the AFP is the part that makes it all work, thats why its called APPLE FILING PROTOCOL. because it maintains the proper file data fork + meta data types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Filing_Protocol

« Last Edit: November 18, 2023, 12:26:42 PM by chrisNova777 »
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MDMA

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2023, 02:06:37 AM »

change transfer settings from ascii to binary ftp transfer mode?
use stuffit to encapsulate your files to a zip file, binary transfer mode

id reccommend Fetch https://www.macintoshrepository.org/754-fetch

maybe u dont have the experience to know about all of these nuances from 30 years ago
but this is probably exactly why there is a copy of stuffit expander in the utilities folder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StuffIt_Expander

you cant send "naked" files out from your computer you have to package them up into archive files (zip,sit), encapsulate them as "macBinary" (.bin) using Stuffit which is why you see any mac file downloads posted on the net always had the double extension ".sit.bin" -- then you have to select to transfer via ascii or binary ftp transfer.

if you want to drag + drop files from one to another you need to use a Net-a-talk (AFP) server and mount an AFP share (network drive) via the chooser using Appletalk over TCPIP or whatever. the AFP is the part that makes it all work, thats why its called APPLE FILING PROTOCOL. because it maintains the proper file data fork + meta data types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Filing_Protocol

Thank you for this, it took me a few days of my life getting an understanding of what was going on and you have summed it up for me in a paragraph :)

I've finally got my sampler all up and running, now just waiting for Amazon to deliver my Ethernet adapter so as I can try and get samples transferred between my machines, I'll certainly be trying this out later today.

Thanks
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MDMA

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2023, 08:19:33 AM »

Before writing this post, I just checked it, Mac Studio with macOS 14.1.1 communicates via NFS protocol with Power Macintosh 9600 with Mac OS 8.5.1. It works great.

Is there an idiots guide for getting this up and running anywhere? I seem to be falling into rabbit holes at each step.

I seem to have a connection between my G3 and Mac Studio, though the connection currently has a yellow doty, but it is seeing something.

I have been doing A LOT of reading and have kind of got myself into places I don't think I should be lol

I have found this info for creating NFS shares on my Mac Studio.....would this be the correct method??

Issue:
 
 
NFS is the best way to share files and directories over the network between Mac and Linux workstations.

This article provides instructions on creating NFS shares in Mac OS X 10.5 or higher.

Solution:
In this example, we'll make the /Users folder on the Mac available to other computers on the network.

Open the Terminal from /Applications/Utilities.
 
Type the following command to edit the /etc/exports file:
sudo nano /etc/exports
 
Enter your password when prompted.
 
Add a line to file similar to the following example (change the IP address and mask to the one used by your network. Ask your network administrator for this information):
/Users -network 192.168.0.0 -mask 255.255.0.0
 
Press control+o and then Enter to save the file.
 
Press control+x to exit the text editor.
 
Type the following command to enable nfsd:
sudo nfsd enable
 
Type the following command to test that the sharing is properly enabled.:
showmount -e
 
This command output should be similar to the following:
/Users                                Everyone

Any sort of guide that you would recommend would be very useful to me at this point.

Thanks
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V.Yakob

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Re: FTP between Powerbook G3 and Mac Studio
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2023, 01:24:42 PM »

I made a note about it earlier, take a look. You should succeed.
Have you seen this note?
Code: [Select]
mkdir ~/NFSOS9Share
sudo nano /etc/exports
/Users/test001/NFSOS9Share
Instead of test001, enter your username on macOS

You need to allow the nfsd daemon to work with the disk:

Settings -> Privacy and Security -> Full Disk access, +, command+G, /sbin/, search for the nfsd file in sbin.



This is how it should turn out:



You check the configuration
Code: [Select]
nfsd checkexports
There should be no errors or other messages.

Restart the NFS server.
Code: [Select]
sudo nfsd restart

If a firewall is enabled on macOS, you need to add a rule:

Code: [Select]
export PATH=$PATH:/usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall
sudo socketfilterfw --add /sbin/nfsd

To make sure everything is fine, don't forget to set access rights to the directory for writing files from Mac OS 8/9



If the computers are connected by a network cable, the MacNFS on the side of your Powerbook will determine the NFS server through broadcast requests, you will only have to click to connect.

That's all. :)
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AppleSilicon — Mac mini (2020), Mac Studio M2 Max + Apple Studio Display.
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