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Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 659457 times)

IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1220 on: December 15, 2020, 01:53:53 AM »

hm, according to the manual the dell requires(?) hdmi for 1920x. if it wouldnt work in OSX, i would have bet for a hdmi adapter or cable problem.
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Jacques

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1221 on: December 15, 2020, 10:49:39 AM »

My 1.42Ghz Mini works fine at 1920x1200@60, in both OSX and OS9. I'm using the v9 install cd. I have two displays and both work when connected via DVI, one is a HP Elitedisplay and the other a Dell 2405wfp.
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mcmini

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1222 on: December 17, 2020, 01:17:51 AM »

Has anybody tried booting the image from a USB flash disk?

My Mini's optical drive is hosed, so I took a USB stick, made an Apple partition map on it, and flashed Ross's disk image to it. Then I booted into Open Firmware and typed:

Code: [Select]
boot usb0/disk:10,\System%20Folder\Mac%20OS%20ROM
However I'm not getting further than the floppy disk icon with a flashing question mark. Has anybody successfully booted this from USB?



EDIT: I got it to work. Here's what I did in case anyone wants to install OS 9 with a USB stick on a Mac Mini with a faulty CD drive:

1 - Prep the USB stick from another Mac:

From another Mac, get an iso of the Mac OS X Tiger Install DVD, and Ross's OS 9 iso.

Using Disk Utility, re-partition your USB stick and make sure the partition scheme is "Apple"

Flash the Tiger DVD iso to your USB stick with Disk Utility's "Restore" functionality. Take note of the partition number on the USB stick (such as "disk1s3").

Finally, copy "Macintosh HD.img" from Ross's iso onto the USB stick.

2 - Boot the Mini to the Tiger installer via USB:

Plug the stick into the Mini. Press the power button and hold down Cmd+Alt+O+F to bring up Open Firmware, and run this:
Code: [Select]
boot usb0/disk:3,\\:tbxiYou may need to use usb1 instead, depending on the USB port you're using for the flash drive. Also, replace "3" with the partition number you got when prepping the USB drive.

Wait for the Tiger installer to start up, then pick your language.

3 - Set up OS 9 partition from within the Tiger installer environment:

First, open Terminal.

Let's partition the Mini's hard drive with OS 9 drivers!!! We must do this in the Terminal because the Disk Utility GUI does not show the option to write  OS 9 drivers.
Here, I'm creating two partitions on disk0, since I intend to dual-boot OS 9 and Tiger. If you want to make your own partition scheme, just run "diskutil partitionDisk" to get more info about the command. Also, make sure that your Mini's internal hard drive is disk0 (with diskutil list).
Code: [Select]
diskutil partitionDisk disk0 2 OS9Drivers HFS+ Classic 40G "Journaled HFS+" Tiger 40G
Let's copy OS 9 system files to the Classic partition now.
The source parameter in the command below is the path to the Macintosh HD.img you copied to the USB stick earlier.
You don't need "-rebuild", but it's nice to have as it will trigger a rebuild of the desktop file when you boot OS 9 for the first time, which seems to be needed due to missing icons etc.
Code: [Select]
asr -source "/Volumes/Mac OS X Install DVD/Macintosh HD.img" -target "/Volumes/Classic" -noverify -rebuild -verbose
Finally, we need to "bless" OS 9's system folder.
Code: [Select]
bless --folder9 "/Volumes/Classic/System Folder" --use9 --bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"
4 - OS 9 is now installed on the Mini's hard drive!

If all you want is to run OS 9, just reboot, unplug your USB stick and OS 9 should work!

If you want to dual-boot with Tiger, you can do so while you're in the Tiger environment. Quit the terminal and click through the OS X installation wizard. Make sure you install OS X on the second partition. Then reboot.

When booting the mini, hold down Alt to pick a boot partition. I haven't gotten the OS X "Startup" pref pane to "see" the OS 9 install.




Sources that helped me get there:
Open Firmware USB boot: 1 2 
Commands: bless1 bless bless2 asr
How to bless OS9 to make it work: bless
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 09:51:42 AM by mcmini »
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bamdad

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1223 on: December 17, 2020, 04:07:08 AM »

So what inexpensive solutions are there to getting audio?
Sabrent USB External Stereo Sound Adapter for Windows and Mac. Plug and play No drivers Needed. (AU-MMSA) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_SdSTBbD8T28YY

I bought one of those. Worked, as it says, without installing anything. On Mac OS 9. But FYI, it seems a little flaky/strange at times, as it has some strange quirks. For example, the volume isn’t controllable.

well i bought one of these and it doesn't seem to do squat. the only thing that happens is that the 'speakers' part comes alive in the control panel but that's it. no input device, no sound whatsoever.. : (

to those who use this: is there a trick? i tried connecting it without a hub to the USB port but that didn't help either..

EDIT: i plugged it in to my yikes G4 with OS 8.6 aaand.. it says something along the lines of 'the USB audio device cannot be used because the drivers cannot be located'. hmm.. i checked system profiler and it says 'product ID 20 ($14) vendor 3468 (c-media electronics inc.)

i'm wondering whether even though this is packaged as an AU-MMSA, there might be multiple different hardware revisions/variations and i happened to get one that isn't 'driverless' as advertised.

could someone please post the product and vendor ID of their working one so i can compare?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 04:42:55 AM by bamdad »
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pixlgeek

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1224 on: December 17, 2020, 03:01:12 PM »

Hi,

I recently got from a flea market a silent upgrade mini G4, that is the machine with 1.5 GHz CPU and 64 MB instead of 32 MB video RAM, I replaced the quite fast!! HDD with my usual msata-to-2,5ide 128 GB drive, it has DWD-RW SuperDrive instead of the usual combo drive, otherwise totally identical to other G4 minis except the last thing it has Bluetooth 2.0 instead of v1.

I burned the OS9 v9 installer found here (my last try was v8 on a regular 1,25 GHz Mini quite a long time ago). Against the advice, I used a digital DVI cable with my Samsung syncmaster A450 1680x1050 TFT. The very same cable with this mini works OOB with 10.4 and 10.5, properly giving 1680x1050@60Hz resolution under OSX.

While booting the CD I got extremely confusing visuals that stayed during the install. The image was there, but it was garbled somewhat, I quickly got into the Samsung internal menu in the monitor and the info section revealed the mini is sending 840x1050 pixel resolution @60 Hz. Instead of 1680 pixels width, I got half, 840 px. Although it was barely readable (as every second column of pixels were missing from the vision, I installed v9 from muscle memory).

After reboot, I got the same 840x1050px resolution (based on the monitor's internal menu) with full ATI acceleration. I launched the Monitors control panel, where I started to lower the resolution until I reached 832x624@75Hz, where I got a clear image...

... I did not try yet the modified rockhopper2 drivers.

What I found weird is that the picture is almost there, I mean the number of pixels divided by two is the only issue I have with this monitor...
Cheers!
Modify message

Hi everyone! I've been reading silently for a couple of weeks here, and finally found someone else who has the same issue as me.

I also have a 1.5GHz model, on which I managed to blindly install Tiger (despite this issue). Since I have no knowledge of OS 9, I don't know what to do when Drive Setup shows, and on which partition to install OS 9 (I have four total).

I zapped the PRAM memory, and Tiger now displays 1920x1200@60Hz, but when booting the OS 9 CD there was no change. I'm using a Dell U3011 with a DVI-HDMI cable. Previously, with a DVI-DVI cable, the issue was the same.

Can someone please give me a pointer on what I could do?

TIA


Take a look at my post here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg41812.html#msg41812
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pixlgeek

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1225 on: December 17, 2020, 03:04:20 PM »

So what inexpensive solutions are there to getting audio?
Sabrent USB External Stereo Sound Adapter for Windows and Mac. Plug and play No drivers Needed. (AU-MMSA) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_SdSTBbD8T28YY

I bought one of those. Worked, as it says, without installing anything. On Mac OS 9. But FYI, it seems a little flaky/strange at times, as it has some strange quirks. For example, the volume isn’t controllable.

well i bought one of these and it doesn't seem to do squat. the only thing that happens is that the 'speakers' part comes alive in the control panel but that's it. no input device, no sound whatsoever.. : (

to those who use this: is there a trick? i tried connecting it without a hub to the USB port but that didn't help either..

EDIT: i plugged it in to my yikes G4 with OS 8.6 aaand.. it says something along the lines of 'the USB audio device cannot be used because the drivers cannot be located'. hmm.. i checked system profiler and it says 'product ID 20 ($14) vendor 3468 (c-media electronics inc.)

i'm wondering whether even though this is packaged as an AU-MMSA, there might be multiple different hardware revisions/variations and i happened to get one that isn't 'driverless' as advertised.

could someone please post the product and vendor ID of their working one so i can compare?

I tried all of the "Amazon solutions" and ended up buying the M-Audio Transit on eBay and it worked perfectly.
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bamdad

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1226 on: December 17, 2020, 03:50:34 PM »

So what inexpensive solutions are there to getting audio?
Sabrent USB External Stereo Sound Adapter for Windows and Mac. Plug and play No drivers Needed. (AU-MMSA) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_SdSTBbD8T28YY

I bought one of those. Worked, as it says, without installing anything. On Mac OS 9. But FYI, it seems a little flaky/strange at times, as it has some strange quirks. For example, the volume isn’t controllable.

well i bought one of these and it doesn't seem to do squat. the only thing that happens is that the 'speakers' part comes alive in the control panel but that's it. no input device, no sound whatsoever.. : (

to those who use this: is there a trick? i tried connecting it without a hub to the USB port but that didn't help either..

EDIT: i plugged it in to my yikes G4 with OS 8.6 aaand.. it says something along the lines of 'the USB audio device cannot be used because the drivers cannot be located'. hmm.. i checked system profiler and it says 'product ID 20 ($14) vendor 3468 (c-media electronics inc.)

i'm wondering whether even though this is packaged as an AU-MMSA, there might be multiple different hardware revisions/variations and i happened to get one that isn't 'driverless' as advertised.

could someone please post the product and vendor ID of their working one so i can compare?

I tried all of the "Amazon solutions" and ended up buying the M-Audio Transit on eBay and it worked perfectly.

i downloaded the os 9 dirver from here www.usb-audio.com then it started t work. but just like the internal one with no alert sounds, software mixer and no input. at least it's not distorted like the internal.

i have a feeling i'll end up buying something more usable too, but the m-audio transit looks like it's quite large. do you know something smaller with similar driver support?
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ToddH

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1227 on: December 18, 2020, 07:45:45 AM »

My Mini is scheduled to arrive Monday. It's a 1.25 Ghz model with 512 MB of RAM. Already burned the OS 9 installation disc. I even managed to find an M Audio Transit online for $10. Looking forward to playing with my new toy and reliving some OS 9 goodness. If all goes well I may even upgrade to an SSD, add more RAM, and overclock the processor.

Edit: quick question but does the M Audio Transit need drivers for OS 9 and if it does where can I download them?
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DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1228 on: December 18, 2020, 12:23:49 PM »

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ToddH

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1229 on: December 18, 2020, 02:20:34 PM »

Awesome. Thanks!
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ToddH

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1230 on: December 19, 2020, 11:27:40 AM »

Received my Mini today. Gotta say it is super clean. The top is still white and not a scratch on it. Came with an older version of OS X on it, as well as the personal files of the previous owner. Looks like it hasn't been used in 10 years and the owner didn't install a fresh copy of OS X before sending it to me. Not smart at all. Didn't look through the files and attempted to boot from the OS 9 disk.

With a DVI cable to HDMI adapter I couldn't get a picture when holding down C on boot. I eventually kept at it until somehow it magically booted to the CD at 1920x1080 resolution. Followed the instructions and restored OS 9, made sure to set the correct boot drive, and restarted. Now I get no picture at all from any monitor I own. So it looks like I'm gonna have to find a monitor that will work with the Mini. I may see if I can find something with a VGA port and use the DVI to VGA adapter I have. None of my monitors currently have a VGA port so I'm stuck. Feels like I'm getting close though.

Edit: Success! Found an old monitor in the garage, plugged it in, booted, and set the resolution to 640x480. Took it back inside and plugged it into my monitor and it booted up at 1920x1080 for some weird reason. I then lowered the resolution just to be safe. Now running at a comfortable 1280x720.

OS 9 is really fast and responsive on this machine. The sounds kinda work with powered speakers plugged into the headphone jack but the system sounds are a bit inconsistent. Hopefully my M Audio Transit will be here soon. Thanks to everyone involved in getting this working. Time to play with my new OS 9 machine.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 12:34:42 PM by ToddH »
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ToddH

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1231 on: December 22, 2020, 10:57:26 AM »

Received my M Audio Transit today. Found one online for $5. Installed the drivers, plugged it in, and boom. Works like a charm. Now all my system sounds and alerts function perfectly. Thanks DieHard for discovering this solution. Highly recommended if you can find one.

Got a 1 GB stick of RAM on the way as well. Also will upgrade to an SSD soon.
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DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1232 on: December 24, 2020, 04:22:58 PM »

So, finally gotten around to working on the 2nd milk crate of Mac Minis.

I am now in the process of fully making the transition to G4 Minis only; and will be selling the MMD and QS Towers due to the "noise" factor. Unfortunately, I have grown very sensitive to external noises in my studio and the Towers are big, bulky, and noisy.

I can create ISOs, test software, and pull up old audio projects on a Mini and I barley notice it is running.  This will renew my interest in going thru some more archives and maintaining our site.  All archives will be stored on my trusty mirrored FW OWC Dual mini Hard drive enclosures.

A quick note, after trying a few 2.5" IDE to MSata adapters on the mini, I found the "cream of the crop" as far as quality and superior temperature control. I believe a member also posted this model

Quote
Ableconn IIDE-MSAT mSATA SSD to 2.5-Inch IDE Adapter Converter with Aluminum Frame Bracket -
Latch and Retain mSATA SSD as 9.5mm 2.5" IDE SSD Drive

Convert a full size mSATA SSD into a standard 9.5mm high 44-pin 2.5" IDE SSD drive.
Open frame aluminum housing dessign provides excellent heat dissipation for mSATA SSD
Compatible with most mSATA solid state drives such as the SAMSUNG 840/850 EVO

Note: remove jumper to make to make it "master" when installing in the Mini
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This baby is a little pricey $32, you can get bare bone adapters for $9, but it is amazing in quality, great heat disbursement and mounts perfectly.

I will post some speed tests when I have time.  I bought this Msata for $29
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W1VZRG5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 06:25:25 PM by DieHard »
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SDG

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1233 on: December 25, 2020, 02:39:01 AM »

Can also recommend. This adapter goes/went under various names in various countries.

Lycom in the UK (available for £15 from Scan computers) also sold under the Lindy moniker.

Delock in Germany (around €28 from Bechtle.com and others)

Ableconn in the US, Kuwait etc

Renkforce in Slovakia (about €18 from Conrad)

Renkforce in Germany (about €23 from Conrad)

Addonics in the US

Kouwell in Czechia.

If you do a picture search, you may find a reseller in your area. Some of the above names may no longer be sold and there may be new rebadges in other countries. This adapter has a Marvell converter chip and is a tad better at voltage stepping than the more budget adapter cards using the J20330 chip.



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IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1234 on: December 25, 2020, 03:10:29 AM »

wow, 30 euro for an adapter and then you put 120 gb into it. :)

i wonder if i should have left my "white case" solutions without their plastic cases in the minis? (heat?)
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bamdad

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1235 on: December 28, 2020, 10:14:59 AM »

just watched a video on youtube about the G4 cube and that originally came with mac os 9, and some custom harman-kardon speakers that were fully digital. the reviewer also mentioned that using aftermarket soeakers usually sounded like crap because the output was over-amplified and sometimes distorted.. sound familiar?


now the ROM we are using for the mac mini sees the machine as a G4 cube. is it possible that using a different machine ID would at least fix the distorted audio? this is just a thought, i don't actually know if there is a connection or not..
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DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1236 on: December 28, 2020, 10:28:39 AM »

Quote
now the ROM we are using for the mac mini sees the machine as a G4 cube. is it possible that using a different machine ID would at least fix the distorted audio? this is just a thought, i don't actually know if there is a connection or not..

Good theory, but our ROM is not related to any CUBE specific code, I believe ELN just picked that arbitrary, he could have made it say "Quick silver" (which I think id did at one point), Cube made the most sense, maybe we can Hex edit and make it say "Mac Mini" someday
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bamdad

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1237 on: December 28, 2020, 10:33:02 AM »

oh lol. sorry to hear that but thanks for the clarification.


one ore n00b question that's been bugging me: is there any chance of somehow hacking 9.0.4 to work on the mini? maybe with some mix and matching of system components (e.g. leave the ROM in place but use a lower version system file)? i'm asking because the compatibility for older software has been significantly crippled with 9.1 and above..
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IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1238 on: December 28, 2020, 10:55:48 AM »

just try it out yourself?

but make a backup before you do and have a boot CD at you hands.:)
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bamdad

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1239 on: December 28, 2020, 01:26:01 PM »

just try it out yourself?

but make a backup before you do and have a boot CD at you hands.:)

well the boot CD wouldn't help since i swapped the DVD drive with a caddy adapter with my SATA SSD in it but i know what you mean.

sadly, it doesn't work. i did a clean minimal install of 9.0.4 and copied the 'Mac OS ROM' file over, but it says 'unimplemented trap' instead of booting. booting with extensions off (as suggested by the dialog) doesn't help either. i'm guessing there's something that 9.0.4 needs not implemented in the special ROM the for the mini.

any ideas? i'm open to any and all suggestions.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 01:54:05 PM by bamdad »
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