Mac OS 9 Lives

General => HELP BOARD ! Installing & Troubleshooting the Classic Mac OS => Topic started by: filipetolhuizen on July 07, 2014, 05:35:09 PM

Title: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 07, 2014, 05:35:09 PM
First of all hello to everyone,
I came to this forum with a new hope for my Radeon 9200 mac edition pci 128mb. Unfortunately what I believed to be the hope for it (the ultra rare ATI july 2005 update) wasn't. Here's what happens: The card shows perfect picture but every Radeon 9200 compatible driver refuses to load and the system freezes upon showing the desktop. Could it be a damaged card? My system is: B&W G3 with a G4 400mhz original from "Yikes!" overclocked to 450mhz with proper voltage tweak, 1GB memory, 80GB + 40GB HDs, LG DVD-RAM, 2 Voodoo2 8MB in SLI, using a Radeon 7000 64MB which is working perfectly. I tried removing the voodoo2 cards, using it on the 33mhz slots but everything failed. I don't what else I can do for it to work as it's claimed to be 100% compatible with my system. Any help is appreciated.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on July 07, 2014, 06:29:13 PM
honestly.. yes on paper the radeon 9200 is alot bettre tehn the radeon 7000..
but i  have a g3 450mhz with a radeon 7000 card and it works great.. u should put your mind to doing some cool things with software and forget about chasing the max potential of the video card becasue this radeon 7000 card is good enough ..!

i myself have obsessed about trying to acheive the best video performance and best hardware combos but really this radeon 7000 functions just as good
be happy with yoru pc;)

are u using this mac for creative purposes?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 07, 2014, 08:16:27 PM
honestly.. yes on paper the radeon 9200 is alot bettre tehn the radeon 7000..
but i  have a g3 450mhz with a radeon 7000 card and it works great.. u should put your mind to doing some cool things with software and forget about chasing the max potential of the video card becasue this radeon 7000 card is good enough ..!

i myself have obsessed about trying to acheive the best video performance and best hardware combos but really this radeon 7000 functions just as good
be happy with yoru pc;)

are u using this mac for creative purposes?
Yes, the Radeon 7000 works great, but I was wondering if I could get better 3D performance. I use this Mac for retro-gaming. Sometimes the Radeon 7000 struggles on 3D mode, but is awesome in 2D. Before that I was even trying to reach 500mhz with the G4 ZIF module. I tried the proper voltage tweak on 2 different G4 400mhz processors but none were stable even not overheating. I followed the guide at xlr8yourmac but it didn't work for me so I stayed at 450mhz, which is great already.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on July 07, 2014, 08:56:17 PM
ok yes . for gaming then, if u are serious + want the best performance on mac os 9.. then there is nothing better then the GeForce4 Ti4600 or Radeon 8500
but of course those are AGP videocards..... and u want pci.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkf9V1BC1YI[/youtube]

maybe ask this guy what drivers he used?

but yea it seems hes using osx? so maybe this video isnt as relevant as i thought.

id say if these drivers dont work:
http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CR

then your card is probably just fucked or something?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 08, 2014, 05:08:25 AM
ok yes . for gaming then, if u are serious + want the best performance on mac os 9.. then there is nothing better then the GeForce4 Ti4600 or Radeon 8500
but of course those are AGP videocards..... and u want pci.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkf9V1BC1YI[/youtube]

maybe ask this guy what drivers he used?

but yea it seems hes using osx? so maybe this video isnt as relevant as i thought.

id say if these drivers dont work:
http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CR

then your card is probably just fucked or something?
Yes, I think it is, I remember being in this page. I think I'll get a Radeon 9250 and flash it. At least I know they work with the july 2005 update.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on July 08, 2014, 07:29:54 AM
This are the ATI RAdeon 9200 drivers:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1193.0;attach=385

If the problem persist, may be originated by a different cause....
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 08, 2014, 12:19:39 PM
This are the ATI RAdeon 9200 drivers:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1193.0;attach=385

If the problem persist, may be originated by a different cause....
Thank you, I'll try them. The name of the file says Radeon 9250. But didn't the july 2005 update already added support for it?
Oh, another thing that happens with mine is that it only shows image with the latest ROM. I tried flashing it with older ROMs for it but there was no picture at all. It's got a serial number of a real mac card, but the resistors positions don't match the ones in here (mine has red pcb as well): http://themacelite.wikidot.com/9250-trick (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/9250-trick)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on July 08, 2014, 12:22:46 PM
if your card is the power color pc version be glad it works at all! mine didnt show picture at all - i assumed that this was because of it being pci2.2 spec and above compatible only
i almost threw the card out untill i put it into a 2004 asus motherboard (Asus P4B533) and it worked fine
it gave problems with newer + older boards tho.. very strange
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 08, 2014, 04:47:03 PM
if your card is the power color pc version be glad it works at all! mine didnt show picture at all - i assumed that this was because of it being pci2.2 spec and above compatible only
i almost threw the card out untill i put it into a 2004 asus motherboard (Asus P4B533) and it worked fine
it gave problems with newer + older boards tho.. very strange
My card was purchased as an authentic Mac Edition (at least it's what it says on the S/N label) and it has red pcb.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 11, 2014, 03:16:48 PM
My card design doesn't match the ones at the mac elite at all. So I think it's useless.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on July 11, 2014, 04:51:45 PM
My card design doesn't match the ones at the mac elite at all. So I think it's useless.

why dont u post a pic of the card so we can see and try to solve the problem
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 27, 2014, 04:57:01 PM
Sorry it took so long, but here it is:
(http://home.comcast.net/~dankephoto/images/r9200r.jpg)


Note: Picture no longer available, it should have been uploaded here, but was hosted by "Comcast"
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 08, 2014, 12:01:47 PM
Has anyone got a clue?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 08, 2014, 12:06:21 PM
(http://home.comcast.net/~dankephoto/images/r9200r.jpg)
hmm
have u tried the drivers with the cpu set to its proper speed instead of overclocked?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 08, 2014, 12:11:05 PM
Quote
2 Voodoo2 8MB in SLI, using a Radeon 7000 64MB which is working perfectly

SLI mode? a g3/g4??? for real?? why do u need so many video cards. how many screens are u driving!

(http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/sli-1/voodoo2sli.jpg)

have u tried the drivers+card on a fresh install of mac os 9?
which rom version. u've given us little information on your system.. are u using a mac os 9 build from our site? if so which? what rom version is your install?
if u have alot of gaming/funky SLI drivers u may have a conflict somewhere
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 08, 2014, 05:18:38 PM
There are no Voodoo 2 drivers loaded on startup and yes, I tried booting without the V2 cards already. Mac OS ROM version is 8.7, should I update it?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 08, 2014, 08:16:36 PM
i think u should try a new install completley on a new disk using our 'drag install'

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1035.0

this version includes all the most recent updated files + versions of extensions
thats the reason why

u can simply unpack the file to a new drive or partition formatted under os9 (or X with 9 drivers) and then select it as your start up disk + reboot

this version contains rom 10.2.1
and the video drivers are built in aswell you may find it just works for this card?
fingers crossed for you;)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 08, 2014, 08:33:28 PM
I was just trying to extract it. The file is corrupted.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 08, 2014, 08:59:53 PM
I was just trying to extract it. The file is corrupted.

can u be a bit more specific
which file did u download?
and on which os using what program are u trying to expand/decode it?

be certain you arent right clicking and pressing save as on the link.
this does not work. u have to left click the link as tho going to a new page with your browser
for the download link to work correctly.

the sea.bin file needs to be expanded with stuffit expander on mac os 9
the img.sitx needs to be expanded with stuffit expander on mac os x, then u double click the img file to mount it.

make sure to copy the files directly to a new formatted partiton thats been formatted in 9 or formatted in X with the mac os 9 drivers option selected. could be a firewire drive or internal drive or partition.. doesnt matter.. any size will do aswell.. i think u could do this with as small as 5gb or maybe even smaller.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 09, 2014, 06:30:34 AM
I downloaded the Mac OS 9 image, which is about 473MB. I'm trying to extract it with StuffIt Expander 7.03, but it stops on the Applications folder with an error message that the file has errors and extracts nothing else beyond it. I even downloaded it twice just to make sure. I'm not using any download managers. I can't get the OS X image since I don't have OS X installed anywhere.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 09, 2014, 09:54:40 AM
I downloaded the Mac OS 9 image, which is about 473MB. I'm trying to extract it with StuffIt Expander 7.03, but it stops on the Applications folder with an error message that the file has errors and extracts nothing else beyond it. I even downloaded it twice just to make sure. I'm not using any download managers. I can't get the OS X image since I don't have OS X installed anywhere.

i will download the os9 image and test it for you right now.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 09, 2014, 10:03:54 AM
I downloaded the Mac OS 9 image, which is about 473MB. I'm trying to extract it with StuffIt Expander 7.03, but it stops on the Applications folder with an error message that the file has errors and extracts nothing else beyond it. I even downloaded it twice just to make sure. I'm not using any download managers. I can't get the OS X image since I don't have OS X installed anywhere.

i will download the os9 image and test it for you right now.
Thank you, I really appreciate that. I have Mac OS 8.6 installed on another hard drive, will I be able to replace my whole Mac OS 9.2.2 folder including Mac OS ROM within Mac OS 8.6?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 09, 2014, 10:29:25 AM
u may be able to have more then one mac os 9 system folder on the same partition yes but ive not had much experience with this.... but i think the startup disk allows u to pick a specific folder and every bootable system will show up as an option within the startup disk control panel..

it may be a good idea to test it this way ...  why erase your old os if u dont have to

i also got an error expanding the file!!
im pretty amazed.. i cant believe this.. i mean i dont know which of the admins is uploading these untested files
when i create an archive to upload i make sure that i can expand it first.. u can be certain that the mac os x image works 100%

u might even try to download this image under mac os 9.. stuffit expander 7.0.3 might work to unstuff .sitx and mac os 9 will definately be able to mount the .img file
the contents of the archive is the same.. i made the osx file myself + uploaded it myself... and packaged it.. + tested it.. so i know it works..  and the contents are the same as the other os9 archive that is apparently
CONFIRMED by both of us as DAMAGED... the only other thing i can think of is that its a problem expanding it with 7.0.3 expander version..  this file was made by diehard i think.... and unless theres some type of data corruption issue with adrives system.. i dunno what exactly is the cause of this but we both got the same symptom

could this be caused by someones data connection on upload?
im going to try to expand the image on osx and see if it works fine there
i know diehard was packaging files on his mdd tho. im pretty sure he used mac os 9 only
but im not sure if this file was uploaded later by someone else.. but pretty sure diehard made it originally.

i suggest u try the osx image...
theres a chance like i sid that 703 will expand it ok.. even tho it is in .sitx format
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 09, 2014, 01:49:05 PM
I think it expands .sitx format, but not always keep the resource fork intact. Anyway, getting the osx image right now.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 09, 2014, 02:48:29 PM
Ok, The sitx file was successfully extracted and the .img was mounted using toast. Can I replace the files in my current OS 9.2.2 installation within Mac OS 8.6? Cause I like to keep things as clean as possible.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 09, 2014, 03:48:48 PM
My goodness! I don't know how to thank you enough. This is the first time I got the card working on Mac OS 9.2.2. You are the greatest! Now I have achieved the max on my system.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: IIO on August 09, 2014, 03:55:23 PM

thats the great thing about outdated operating systems: there is a "last version" of everything, and that stuff usually works.

in OSX 10.10.1 everything is beta and "soon".
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 09, 2014, 09:03:07 PM
I've been wishing to do that for a long time, but never found the necessary files. You're all great for keeping this available.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 09, 2014, 09:27:14 PM
My goodness! I don't know how to thank you enough. This is the first time I got the card working on Mac OS 9.2.2. You are the greatest! Now I have achieved the max on my system.

awesome...;) glad to help
im really disturbed by this corruption going on with files
that draginstall file shouldnt have had a problem.
its a prety important download and it doesnt even work
and wasnt even tested properly... ;(

re: 9200
i found some 256mb versions on ebay that are 5v pci
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PCI-ATI-Radeon-9200-256-MB-256MB-PCI-Video-Graphic-Card-Display-Graphics-VGA-/221454694027?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item338fba768b
tempted to try to flash one of these but not sure i wanna pay 30$ for a card that wont work in a g5
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 09, 2014, 10:29:54 PM
I also have a spare Radeon 9250 PCI that I got while I searched for a solution to the Radeon 9200. The 9250 is a pc card that I flashed for Mac, but shows garbled image, probably due to those nasty resistors. Unfortunately the card doesn't match much with the reference designs at themacelite and I still need to figure out which are the right resistors. The card is exactly this model: (http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/itemDetails/A177-3080/A177-3080-out5-hl.jpg)
I'll take some photos of mine, in case you never seen this model before.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 09, 2014, 10:46:52 PM
i got the same result trying to flash my powercolor pci radeon 9200
i think its hard to find the proper flashable one..
because like u eluded to, there is an additional hardware incompatibility or problem for alot of them

let us know how the performance is on the 9200 pci
i have read that it is comparible to the agp 8500 which is impressive
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 10, 2014, 08:01:37 AM
It is quite impressive, I tested it with GLQuake, Unreal, SW Episode 1 Racer and RTCW. Huge gains over the Radeon 7000.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 10, 2014, 08:06:50 AM
It is quite impressive, I tested it with GLQuake, Unreal, SW Episode 1 Racer and RTCW. Huge gains over the Radeon 7000.

i remember quite enjoying the star wars pod racer game ;) i had a joystick especially for this game back in 1999 !!
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 10, 2014, 08:10:03 AM
www.ebay.ca/itm/Mac-Radeon-9200-128mb-AGP-Graphics-Video-Card-For-Apple-PowerMac-G4-G5-DVI-VGA-/251218834290?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3a7dcf3372

here they are selling some 9200 mac AGP cards
i wonder how this is compared to 8500/9000
if there would be performance gains ..
im not about to pay that price to find out tho
9200 AGP cant be worth 66$ that price is really wrong
i paid way less then that for my 8500 agp

R200 chip
http://www.gpureview.com/radeon-8500-card-22.html

vs

RV280 chip
http://www.gpureview.com/radeon-9200-card-69.html

comparing, i can see the 8500 mem bandwidth is still higher
hmm it says 8x agp too for the 9200 AGP

this cant be right this guys add claims "*True Quartz Extreme , Core Image (10.5 Leopard) Supported & Compatible. "
im pretty sure all the stuff i read by japamac said that the 9200 doesnt support q.e.
http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Blog/4B4B7BA2-7ABB-47F1-87AC-B03D37942BEE.html
http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Page%203%3A%20Core%20Image%20.html

sorry i know we were talking about the pci version but i found this auction just now lookng to see if there are any 9200 pci for sale
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 11, 2014, 05:54:18 AM
I thought the Radeon 7000 already supported Q.E. and C.I., so why the Radeon 9200 wouldn't?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 11, 2014, 06:54:26 AM
I thought the Radeon 7000 already supported Q.E. and C.I., so why the Radeon 9200 wouldn't?

where did u read that?
all information i have ever seen indicates that
see this page stating that
"With the exception of the radeon 9700 oem, no apple oem graphics card shipped with a g4 supports core image"
http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Page%203%3A%20Core%20Image%20.html

pretty sure that the radeon 7000 is NOT a core image supporting card.
if u look at the chart on the previous page... it actually lists the radeon 9000 as being the very slowest core image card?
i had no idea radeon 9000 supported core image or perhaps it isnt and its only in there to show the differrence between core image
+ non core image? but wasnt explained as such.. this is the most likely explanation for its presence in the chart.. its definately not a core image card.

but..
none of this matters for mac os 9 because mac os 9 has no core image / quartz extreme support



Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 11, 2014, 07:50:55 AM
I don't remember if they were both supported, but I read something like this on a guide for enabling them (or at least one of them) on PCI cards. I think it was available here: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on August 11, 2014, 08:05:51 AM
I don't remember if they were both supported, but I read something like this on a guide for enabling them (or at least one of them) on PCI cards. I think it was available here: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/ (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/)

probably thinking of the fx5200 geforce
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/graphics/mac_pci_fx5200/mac_pci_fx5200.html

if not this article links to:
Feedback on Hack to Enable Quartz Extreme for Radeon PCI cards (in Jaguar to Tiger)
First Posted: August 27th, 2002 Last Updated: Nov. 2nd, 2005
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/OSX/quartz_extreme_PCI_mod.html#storytop

ok this page references the radeon 7000.. this is prob where u read that..
hmmmm...i have a g3 450mz /w a radeon 7000 pci;)
that is collecting dust atm
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 13, 2014, 05:00:18 PM
A G3 + Radeon 7000 is the best match for compatibility and performance. The card is also the easiest one to transform from PC to Mac. The Radeon 9200 is a lot trickier than I thought, but worth the effort.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on September 23, 2014, 02:24:20 AM
i have the official radeon 7000 mac edition card made by Sapphire
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102318
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Apple-Mac-G4-G5-ATI-Radeon-7000-PCI-64MB-Video-Card-DVI-VGA-S-Video-TV-Out-OS9-/200710223413
seems they are selling off a huge number of them for 30$ in this ebay auction
he also has the drivers up for download : http://howfunkel.com/

Quote
Radeon X1900 Mac G5 Series Update Jan. 17, 2007 (13.7MB) (http://howfunkel.com/MacX1900G5.dmg)
ATI Radeon OS9 Drivers/Software Update (Nov 2002) for Radeon 7000 AGP/PCI, 7500 AGP, 8500 AGP, 9000 AGP, and 9200 DVI-D AGP
Software (9.18MB) (http://howfunkel.com/mac-radeon9000-100.hqx)
Installation notes (http://howfunkel.com/mac-radeon9000-100.html)
ATI Radeon OS9 Drivers for Radeon 9200 PCI/AGP DVI-I cards (http://howfunkel.com/9200os9.htm)
ATI Displays v4.5.7 (6.96MB) (http://howfunkel.com/ati-displays-4.5.7.dmg)
ATI Radeon January 2005 Update for OS X 10.3.x and 10.4.x and 10.5.x (5.44MB) (http://howfunkel.com/ati-radeon-10-3-6-jan2005.dmg)
ATI Radeon October 2002 Update for OS X 10.2.x (7.42MB) (http://howfunkel.com/RADEON-0210.hqx)
Aug 2005 ATI Radeon ROM Update (5.06MB) (http://howfunkel.com/ati-mac-rom-update-aug-2005.dmg)
Temperature Monitor (to monitor GPU temp in GeForce 6200 in OS X) (http://www.bresink.com/osx/0TemperatureMonitor/history.html)

(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1311.0;attach=966;image)

(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1311.0;attach=964;image)
interesting to note that hes posted this image to differentiate between the DVI-D + DVI-I versions of the 9200 pci
claming that the DVI-I needs these special drivers hes providing..  http://howfunkel.com/9200os9.sit

http://lowendmac.com/video/pci/radeon-9200.html
this page claims that:
Quote
Physical Specs and Compatibility

The ATI Radeon 9200 is a PCI video card compatible with most Macs with PCI slots. However, ATI notes that it is not compatible with the Digital Audio and Gigabit Ethernet G4 Power Mac in Mac OS 9. It was never used as a standard video card on any Mac.
i would think that because of the similarities in architecture this would also include the quicksilver series.. which are 133mhz bus, ADC/AGP video?

http://www.barefeats.com/rad9200.html
according to this page, the 9200 performs even better for opengl in a powermac g5.. i guess because of the improved speeds of the pci bus.?
but not so well for 3d..

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/graphics/mac_radeon_9200pci_tests.html
interesting to note:
Radeon 9200 Quicksilver Dual 1.2GHz G4 9.2.2 <-- wait.. 1.2ghz dual quicksilver??? :o
B&W g3 results: (brokenlink on the above page) http://web.archive.org/web/20050520000617/http://homepage.mac.com/a2daj/9200Tests/Radeon9200GossamerTests.html
ok no it seems to be beige g3 upgraded to g4 533mhz in the test results

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on September 23, 2014, 02:57:37 AM
im actually having an issue with my radeon 7000 pci.. if the machine goes to sleep
when it wakes up.. the video looks fine for the first second and thenit quickly becomes garbelled + artefacted which becomes worse as i move the mouse and try to do anything, pulldown menus etc introduce more distorted graphics .. making it quite impossible to do anything other then reboot the mac

my config:
powermac g3 b&W 450mhz
radeon 7000 pci
digi 001 card
Gina 20bit card
megawolf 'romulus' serial pci

maybe its being caused by some sort of sleep problem introduced by one of the other cards
i should pull all the others cards and test to see if i can recreate the problem
for now ive just removed the radeon 7000 completely and put back the original ati 128 gl card
which does not have that problem at all

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on September 25, 2014, 04:14:31 PM
I know some alternate Radeon 7000 BIOS you can try. There's the retail BIOS and OEM BIOS. Believe me or not, the OEM has better 2D performance than the Retail, so they're actually different.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on October 26, 2014, 08:37:35 PM
the radeon 7000 pci might be the only "universal" graphics card for g3/g4s! (and pci/pci-x g5s!)
i guess the compatibility is the same for the 9200 pci card aswell?
maybe the reason the 9200 mac pci is so hard to find!!!!
i would like to get a few 9200 pci pci versions too.. just to have in case i need

Quote
This graphics card is compatible with the following Macs:

    G3 Beige Desktop
    G3 Beige Minitower
    G3 Blue & White Tower (Yosemite)
    G4 Tower (Yikes!) (PCI Only, No AGP Slot)
    G4 Sawtooth 2x AGP
    G4 Gigabit Ethernet 2x AGP
    G4 Digital Audio 4x AGP
    G4 Quicksilver 4x AGP
    G4 Mirrored Drive Door (MDD) 4x AGP
    G4 FireWire 800 (FW800) 4x AGP
    G5 Tower 8x AGP
    G4/G5 Xserve

Additional info:

    Full Mac OS 9.2.2 support (drivers available from howfunkel.com)
    Full support for OS X 10.1 Puma and newer
    ATI Displays compatible
    No sleep problems
    Silent operation
    For ADC displays, you'll need to buy a DVI-ADC adapter separately
    Available display modes listed in the chart above are dependent upon your display

Recommended roles for this card:

    Adding displays while keeping your current AGP card
    G3/G4 systems without AGP
    Basic computing
    Light 3D applications
    Light 3D gaming
    DVD Playback
    Internet browsing
    Office applications
    2D graphics and design
    Inexpensive dual display capability
    Silent, cool operation (audio recording)
    OS 9.2.2 machines

wow i just realizd this threads been viewed 3500+ times :o
for anyone else looking to get the install that fixed the OP's problems

DOWNLOAD LINK: https://www.adrive.com/public/syNRnW/freshDragInstall.img.sitx

this is the link... and to use it u unstuff using stuffit expander
and then double click the .img file to mount and u can drag the files from the image anywhere u want them
this .img file can be mounted by double clicking in any powerpc mac os (8.6/9 or X) but on 8.6 u might need disk copy 6.4 (6.5b13 is incompatible with 8.6)
as long as the drive is partitioned with "apple partition map" (not GPT/GUID) and the file system is HFS or HFS+(mac os extended)
then it should boot fine.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Knezzen on October 29, 2014, 12:03:13 PM
Im highjacking this thread a bit.

Decided to update the drivers on the TiBook from the original OS 9.2.2 ATi drivers to the Jan 2005 and Jul. 2005 drivers after that.

Hardware acceleration stopped working after boot, and of course I didn't do a backup of the old extensions...

Im also using Mac OS ROM 9.6.1 on this machine. Do I need a newer version to support hardware acceleration with this machine and driver version? It's a 1ghz PowerBook G4 "Titanium" with a ATi Radeon 9000 64mb graphicscard in it.

When booting I get the hardware acceleration extension (picture of a monitor with speed-lines on the left) with a red cross over it. Like it's not loaded for some reason.

It's a bit irritating since I use this machine for real and serious work. Can't do shit right now since everything is lagging.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Knezzen on October 29, 2014, 12:17:12 PM
Interesting... Just opened up Apple System Profiler, and it sees the G4 as a 666mhz version...

I might need a newer ROM after all.
Where can I download just a new ROM file? I don't feel like downloading the entire drag n' drop install.

The interesting thing would be to find out why this happend in combination with the driver update.
The machine in question has been running stable with the same Mac OS 9.2.2 install since late 2012.

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on October 29, 2014, 12:55:58 PM
I might need a newer ROM after all.
Where can I download just a new ROM file? I don't feel like downloading the entire drag n' drop install.

In my FTP folder there is a file named "Mac Os ROMs"...
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Knezzen on October 30, 2014, 07:49:11 AM
I finally got it working again. I downloaded the "os9general.dmg" from Macintosh Garden and took the ATi Drivers from it and put in the extensions folder again. Rebooted, and it works!

Seems like my TiBook hates the 2005 ATi Drivers for some reason... Have anyone had this problem before as well?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on October 30, 2014, 12:52:18 PM
Have anyone had this problem before as well?

I have a DA 466 with original ATI agpx4 rage pro 128 upgraded with dual GHZ cpu from QS02

A friend left me to test an RADEON 9000 from a MDD and that did not work until I installed those  (or other post 2003 drivers) with the Rage 128 on the AGP port. Later, when I swapped the 9000 all worked perfect, but when I returned him the card and went back to the Rage, I needed to make a new install... Even with the extensions off minimum it did not booted...

 
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on November 19, 2014, 07:09:46 PM
finally scored a deal on one of these today.. 25$!
hope its a real card + not a modified one
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 04:04:34 PM
well i tried to install the updated extensions with a 9200 LE pci (mac edition)
And the accellerator crashed on start up.. in mac os 9.02 on a mac g4 sawtooth 400mhz

i had to force quit the accellerator to continue..
im pretty sure u need to have 9.2.2 to use those extensions..
im about to verify that by updating from stock restore cd for this machine
to 9.2.2 using the update files

**update
well it didnt even let me do the install .. perhaps because the extension had crashed im restarting now.. i trashed the extension and will try agian

after rebooting with extension disabled in extenion manager i was able to update to 9.0.4

updated from 9.0.4 to 9.1

then 9.1 to 9.2.1
then 9.2.1 to 9.2.2

reinstalled the extensions..
the result?

CRASH!!!! on boot.. complete lock up
thats with the mac edition radeon 9200 LE PCI

even with holding shift extensions off it still crashes..
replacing the AGP rage 128 pro .. it still crashes..

wow.. total fubar;)
i finally got booted up with the rade 128 pro + ext off
disabling all ati extensions allows me to boot again..

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 05:16:15 PM
Quote
http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#9200_requirements

Mac OS 9:

    ATI 3D Accelerator
    ATI 8500 3D Accelerator
    ATI Extension
    ATI Graphics Accelerator
    ATI Monitor
    ATI RADEON 3D Accelerator
    ATI Rage 128 3D Accelerator
    ATI Resource Manager
    ATI ROM Xtender
    ATI Video Accelerator
    ATI Video Digitizer
    OpenGLRendererATI
    ATI Displays Control Panel
    ATI Help Folder and Files
    CarbonLib

these are the items included with the 2005 update supplied at the url above
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 05:24:02 PM
ive just tried again with this file
and no crashes so far

i did notice that the driver versions were higher then the ones that mactron posted above

SPOKE TOO SOON!
crashed;) lol

could it be that im missing carbonlib?
well ok i think im ready to give up on this;) lol
i have no idea whats making it crash..
i even did hte "hotfix" rom write...
hoping that would be the silver bullet. but no..
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 05:33:51 PM
I finally got it working again. I downloaded the "os9general.dmg" from Macintosh Garden and took the ATi Drivers from it and put in the extensions folder again. Rebooted, and it works!

Seems like my TiBook hates the 2005 ATi Drivers for some reason... Have anyone had this problem before as well?

there must be something included with the os9general + freshdrag installs that it requires..
thats missing ..
one thing is the mac os rom 10.2.1 of course
but there must be some other difference aswell.
because the crash doesnt occurr untill the very end up the startup.. after network drives are attached..

wish we could really get this figured out because this kind of makes the radeon 9200 not even worth the hassle when it should be looked at as a decent card..
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 07:30:26 PM
is there any detailed extensions reporting tool that i can use to make a list easily of all extensions on a mac os installation so that i can properly compare my current install
with the mdd 10.2.1 install?

there must be a reason why ATI acceleration fails .. and this has happened to knez, me, apfel, filiphezuen(?) so it must have happened to alot of people..
glad i bought a radeon 8500 AGP instead of a radeon 9200 before.. wow what a headache this is - its almost not even worth the trouble

the only reason i wanted it was for my b&w g3...
but thers no way this card will work under mac os 8.6 apparently.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 07:40:14 PM
I finally got it working again. I downloaded the "os9general.dmg" from Macintosh Garden and took the ATi Drivers from it and put in the extensions folder again. Rebooted, and it works!

Seems like my TiBook hates the 2005 ATi Drivers for some reason... Have anyone had this problem before as well?

ok i didnt read this propeerly before but this makes sense as the card i had was working somewhat better before i tried the 2005 update... when i used those files it just got worse. alot worse...

those files are obviously for more advanced G4s.. like MDD or Quicksilvers...
not for sawtooth or tie book beause i had the same symptom.. the X thru the accellerator icon extension... something.. i checked my firmware .its updated to 4.2.8.. i am about to try your reccommended fix right now i am copying the os9general.dmg to my drive very slowly over airport ;D i really hope it fixes.. i have a feeling it will if it worked for you..
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 09:24:21 PM
ive just restored from the factory 9.0.2 restore cd again and my g4 is working fine with the radeon 9200...

so these "update files" are 100% not supporting the 9200 PCI mac edition card
even if they say they do.. theres something wrong with the files.. the drivers must be
BETA drivers and they do not work.. meanwhile the versions that shipped in 1999 with the
cds that the graphite g4 sawtooth machines  has no problem supporting this card....

******once more proof that the "highest version" is NOT ALWAYS THE BEST VERSION********

this cd contains mac os rom 3.5 dated jan 29th 2000

but of course  while its "Working fine" it is also not "Accelerated"
which is no good...

i just repartitioned to 2 parttions so that i could create a new install of the os9general or freshdraginstall aswell to test
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 09:37:23 PM
http://lowendmac.com/video/pci/radeon-9200.html

this article claims the 9200 mac edition PCI is not compatible with digital audio or quicksilvers...
they should have put sawtooths in the list too ;D this card is the worst card for mac os 9 lol
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on April 16, 2015, 10:14:05 PM
http://lowendmac.com/video/pci/radeon-9200.html

this article claims the 9200 mac edition PCI is not compatible with digital audio or quicksilvers...
they should have put sawtooths in the list too ;D this card is the worst card for mac os 9 lol

9200 was great for G3s with PCI or as 2nd card on G4s.

Why are you so obsessed with 8.6?  ;D

I always installed 9.2.2 from a 9.1 disc and made all those updates on my G3 B&W

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 10:20:26 PM
yes DUH thats why i bought it

anyways. i installed 9.2.2 using the "FreshDragInstall"
same result.. CRASH.. when using the 9200
this card is going in the garbage;)
radeon 7000 pci wasnt so much trouble as this..
but it was still a pain in the ass with some wierd problems where i had to replace the rage 128 card to be able to boot
this is bullshit

radeon 8500.. i never had ANY problem with it like this EVER
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 16, 2015, 10:26:58 PM

Why are you so obsessed with 8.6?  ;D

that question has no relevance to this thread. but i will answer it to be polite..
because of compatibility with older applications. some application are not compatible with mac os 9...  mac os 9 made more radical changes .. 8.6 was radical inc omparison to 7.6 but not as much as 9...these topics have been covered tho;) so the short answer is.. compatibility.

this radeon 9200 is just not worth the trouble man. i seriously am going to throw it in the garbage. lol

if anyone can post what they did to get this card to work in detail
i would appreciate it..  i give up... perhaps its just incompatible with the g4 sawtooth.. i might have to just use it as a second display in osx, i read that it performs better in a g5.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on April 17, 2015, 05:40:54 AM
i did notice that the driver versions were higher then the ones that mactron posted above

That's impossible.
... or I have made some mistake ...

thats with the mac edition radeon 9200 LE PCI

... we have to further investigate this Radeon model. I don't have any of them.

those files are obviously for more advanced G4s.. like MDD or Quicksilvers...
not for sawtooth

Not at all. I always use exactly the same Mac Os folder (with the same extensions) to ALL my G4s from Sawtooths to MDDs



Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 17, 2015, 07:43:09 AM
the only thing i can think of is maybe the radeon 9200 LE pci is mac os x only..
and was never supported by the drivers in mac os 9.
it boots up.. appears to work fine.. and then once i get all the way booted up it just freezes... any idea what it could be?

like i said it works with the 'vanilla' restore of 9.0.2 just fine (unacelerated)
but yea.. im not even gonna try any more. :D

(http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/dual-dvi.jpg)

it has dvi-i port.
maybe the other radeon 9200 is dvi-D?
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/radeon-9200-dvi-i-drivers-os-9
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 17, 2015, 08:31:25 AM
i just saw some listings on ebay claiming this card was pulled from a mac g5 xserve unit
maybe there was something different with these radeon "LE" cards

heres some pics
this is exactly what i have..
obviously i reccommend that u stay away from this card;)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on April 17, 2015, 09:04:55 AM

Seems to be a very problematic card:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/mac_radeon_9200pci_tests.html (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/mac_radeon_9200pci_tests.html)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on April 17, 2015, 09:43:06 AM
just tested in a b&W g3 to see if it would make a difference.. even with starting up from the os9 install cd... it freezes.. this card must be X only..

with this in mind, ive removed it, and placed it inside my g5
below is the cards properties listed in mac os x tiger when installed in my powermac g5 1.8ghz machine
it seems to have no problems there, and doesnt interfere with the other card thats installed (radeon 9800 pro)
i guess i will have to use this card for mac os x systems only.. probably works great on intel mac os x versions
as a secondary display in mac os x maybe its not so useless.. but it appears that the "LE" series is either incompatible
or too much trouble to reccommend for anyone
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 06, 2015, 12:51:38 PM
Maybe it requires the updated 9.2.2 I got from here as well. Or maybe a BIOS mod. Try one from here:
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2 (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2)
And don't forget to backup the original!

Seems to be a very problematic card:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/mac_radeon_9200pci_tests.html (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/mac_radeon_9200pci_tests.html)
It is, I read this already, which explains all the trouble I had to get it working.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Apfel on July 07, 2015, 03:34:26 PM
sorry I did not read everything, but:

I once had a problem with my flashed 9200 and discovered that according to themacelite flashed cards from the 9000 family (see more below) don't support HW acceleration, i.e. 3D. This is why the 9800 is sometimes called "not working in OS 9", in fact it only doesn't have 3D, when being a flashed card.


Here is what I did as a write up once:
I couldn't insert the text, because the format of the text gets scrambled, so I made a screenshot
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 07, 2015, 04:58:49 PM
The lack of 3d support on flashed 9000/9200 cards might be because of this:
http://themacelite.wikidot.com/9250-trick (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/9250-trick)
Regarding the Radeon 9800, there was no 3d driver for it made for Mac OS 9.2.2, so it will only work in 2D, even if it's an original Mac card.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: supernova777 on July 08, 2015, 11:49:20 AM
the hardware accelleration also affects 2d... as seen when dragging windows there is this "rol up" bottom to top refresh when accelleration is not enabled which is the primary reason making it undesirable to most users i think
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 08, 2015, 02:33:37 PM
I once read somewhere that there actually were Mac OS 9.2.2 2D drivers for the Radeon 9800 Mac edition that came with the card, but they're 2D only.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 25, 2016, 07:20:02 AM
Sorry to resurrect the thread. I am trying to install 9.2.2 on my PM G4 Yikes with ATI Radeon 9200, install went fine but upon restart, the ati extensions are not loaded and I get a blank screen.

If I turn off the extensions, I can boot fine to desktop but I can not change the screen resolution since the "Monitors" control panel is not accessible or will not open.

I have no other PCI vid card except for this one.

Maybe some gurus here can shed light and direct me to the fix?

The installation s/w is os9 universal I downloaded from here.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 25, 2016, 08:22:24 AM
Welcome Nameci to our humble Forum!

The 9200 seems a card to avoid for OS9 setups. That card shine on OSX setups, but it is not totally stable on OS9 IIRC.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on June 25, 2016, 10:41:14 AM
  There are multiple variants of 9200, which might be part of his problem.  Drivers might need to be updated beyond what shipped with 9.2.2 too.  I reported recently in the Xserve-on-9 thread that my ATI Radeon 9200LE 128MB PCI card worked without issue, even when placed in a PCI expansion chassis.  This is an official retail Mac model, not flashed or modified.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 25, 2016, 06:23:45 PM
Welcome Nameci to our humble Forum!

The 9200 seems a card to avoid for OS9 setups. That card shine on OSX setups, but it is not totally stable on OS9 IIRC.

It seems like it is not stable on OS9 as what you have said. It is fully working on 10.4.11, but not on OS9. I have no other card but this, it seems I might just be contented with running OS9 on classic then.

Thanks for the welcome, long time lurker here.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: IIO on June 25, 2016, 07:13:45 PM
the latest graphic card drivers and firmware updates for OS9 are somewhere here in this forum, try these first.

like mac os plus said, the later 9200 mac edition models are several years older than the OS 9.2.2 golden master.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 25, 2016, 08:22:46 PM
Is there any other way to change the screen resolution while the extensions are off?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 26, 2016, 03:09:46 AM
On  a GeForce 2 I boot to OSX before. The resolution get stored on PRAM somehow. I havent the monitor panel loaded.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 26, 2016, 07:37:40 AM
Sorry guys, I don´t get the problem!
Get that damn "latest ATI drivers" from 2005, boot 9 without any extension, remove the former ATI (I suspect RAGE 128) drivers by hand. Reboot again without drivers and run the installer. Done.

I never before heard about any 9200 instability. Perhaps there are some flashed cards out there making problems but this sounds like a usual extension conflict.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: IIO on June 26, 2016, 01:26:29 PM
On  a GeForce 2 I boot to OSX before. The resolution get stored on PRAM somehow. I havent the monitor panel loaded.

i cant check right now, but it could be that the monitors control panel ist not even a cdev, which means you could still open it when it "has not been loaded".

switchres requires its init...
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: ziggy29 on June 26, 2016, 02:02:02 PM
For a personal data point, I have just confirmed this works well in my PM 7600 running OS 8.6 and OS 9.1, and mostly (apparently without acceleration) in OS 8.1.  Note that this is the actual retail Mac Edition PCI 9200 with 128 MB of VRAM which is overkill for this model, but I digress.  I do it because I can!

I downloaded the file '9200os9.sit' from here:  http://www.kranenburg.cc/mirko.cc/macclassic.html

(I've seen links to the Howfunkel site, but when I use Stuffit on that archive the file types are gone and not recognized as extensions.  At this site, the file unstuffs fine.)

Then I made backups of my 8.1, 8.6 and 9.1 extensions folders.  (This is a tricked out 7600 with 512 MB of RAM, a Sonnet G3/300 card, and a Sonnet Tempo HD with a 120 GB "SSD" -- really an mSATA card and mSATA to 2.5" IDE adapter -- attached to the card with partitions for several OS installs, shared data/apps and other stuff.)

With my previous video card -- a Rage 128 with 16MB of VRAM -- still in place I began to move the files -- it's best to install these while the old card is still there. I rebooted with extensions off and copied the 12 files in the new "9200os9" folder into my three Extensions folders once I had a good backup copy of each.  I rebooted once into 9.1 with the Rage 128 to confirm it still worked fine.  It did. 

Then I shut down, replaced the Rage 128 with the 9200, booted into 9.1, and it all worked fine.  Next, I booted into 8.6.  Again, worked perfectly. 

Finally, back to OS 8.1.  It crashed on an extension while booting up.  Trial and error indicated it was the "ATI Resource Manager" extension which was the culprit; removing it and leaving the other 11 in place works *except* that the acceleration extension is "X-ed out" when loading at boot time.  Other than that it seems to be working fine.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 27, 2016, 03:18:28 AM
I have tried the drag and drop method as it seems previous poster on this thread was successful. It booted well but still with the same issue. I forgot to state that the screen is "out of range" right before it goes into login on the desktop, so it seems that the screen resolution outputted from the vid card was way beyond the screen that could handle. It would display fine on the startup screen, just that it would not display the desktop. And also I have noticed the it would not load the video acceleration extensions.

Btw, the screen is connected via VGA, there is another option on the screen for the DVI connector. I am not sure now if it is a retail/official card of some sort or a flashed one. It is a card of red PCB color and DVI-I and VGA connector, if that helps to ID it. The screen has a max res of 1366 x 768, and it work well on 10.4.11.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on June 27, 2016, 09:00:20 AM
...  it would not load the video acceleration extensions.

You should try the MacTron's famous System folder  8) . It is bullet proof and includes the latest ATI drivers, ( including 9200 support ). Furthermore it include the old Monitors control panel v7.5.6 that could change your screen resulution even if you start whith extensions off.

Quote
Btw, the screen is connected via VGA, there is another option on the screen for the DVI connector. I am not sure now if it is a retail/official card of some sort or a flashed one. It is a card of red PCB color and DVI-I and VGA connector, if that helps to ID it.
Try the DVI connector, it is  more reliable usually and the image quality is better.

Quote
The screen has a max res of 1366 x 768, and it work well on 10.4.11.

The 1366x768 resolution isn't supported by Mac Os 9. AFAIK.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 27, 2016, 02:02:38 PM
Perhaps we are facing a communication problem here. I strongly belive that Nameci has a simple driver issue. As said most likely a clean driver conflict like we had so often. I suggested to boot with all extensions off and start to work with that (most likely 640 x 480) resolution. But I just read about further copy operations.
Just get rid of that former ATI extensions, and use the latest installer from 2005. There is no need to get stuff from everywhere and mess up the System folder even more. Just use the original 9200 installer!


The 1366x768 resolution isn't supported by Mac Os 9. AFAIK.
I strongly disagreee to that staement. It does not depend on the OS, but on the graphiccard and its drivers. If the card works fine with EDID informations coming from the monitor, everything goes well. I even used resolutions like 169 x 1050 and similar. Even my old TwinTurbo here offeres me for the 2nd display 1920 x 1080, ...
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 27, 2016, 04:51:12 PM
I have disabled all the ATI extensions if that would matter and I have rebooted, all the extensions enabled were loaded at startup except of course for the graphic accelerator. Once it is past startup screen and about to go to desktop there goes my dreaded "out of range". Funny, because during startup the screen is on a somewhat recognized high resolution (I would assume it is on 1366 x 768), not on 640 x 480.

I have no professional use for this powermac, except I will pass this to my 3 year old son. There are lots of education applications and references, and besides I just love the snappiness of OS9.

I would assume most of us here are windows free.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 27, 2016, 07:17:56 PM
I have disabled all the ATI extensions if that would matter and I have rebooted, all the extensions enabled were loaded at startup except of course for the graphic accelerator. Once it is past startup screen and about to go to desktop there goes my dreaded "out of range".
These statements are contradictory. I don´t know why, but I do not understand what you tried.
Did you boot without any extension? If so, how? Did the desktop come up without extensions? If so, in which resolution.
How did youdisable "all the ATI extensions"? And which extensions you are referring to if you say "grapic accelerator extensions" do not load?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 27, 2016, 08:27:38 PM
Hello Matt,

Thanks for helping buddy. When I say disable the extensions, what I mean is turning the extensions off on boot. If extensions are off it would boot fine without the "out of range" message on the monitor screen. Within 3 startups, the startup resolution would be higher, but after 3 or so startups it would now start to 640 x 480 and would boot to the desktop. I am sorry english is not native to me so I cannot state it articulately.

When I say disable all the ATI extensions, that means using the extension manager and removing the "x" mark on the boxes of all extension that has ATI on its name.

I can figure out which extensions are causing this issues once I can go past the "out of range" message on the screen. If extensions are off it means all the extensions on the /System Folder/Extensions are disabled, am I right? What extensions are setting the resolution then?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 27, 2016, 10:23:45 PM
Hi Nameci,
English is also not my first language, thats why I really thought I didn´t get some parts.

So, I still belive you got a simple drivers conflict. Fine to hear that your Mac can boot to the desktop if all extensions are off. What I still do not understand is how you can use Extensions On/Of control panel without extensions loaded. That is still a myst, ...
There is one huge missunderstanding: you cannot use any screen resolution changes without the correct ATI 9200 drivers, but you have just the wrong ones recently as I think (the original Mac OS 9 ATI drivers that came with your system - for other cards). You need to get the right ATI 9200 drivers installed, and than you can change to any resolution.

But; what you should try is quite easy as I said above:

• Download that ATI driver which is linked above.
• Boot your mac with all extensions off!
• from now on you will work in 640 x 480 or a similar low resolution for all steps!
• Manually remove all extensions regarding ATI from the Folder "Extensions" in the Systemfolder to the folder "Extensoins (off)" in the System Folder. That is the same what you usually automatically do with the Control Panel "Extensions ON/OFF"
• reboot your mac to see if it now boots with extensions into the desktop. If it doesn´t you still have a conflict, and need to identify te problematic extension by manually removeing one after the other to the "off folder"
• If you mac boots, run the ATI installer,
• reboot, and enjoy the 9200 and resolution as bith depth changes and adjust to your needs.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on June 27, 2016, 11:03:01 PM
"Out of range" normally refers to the refresh rate being too high (or low) for the monitor's circuitry, not so often the resolution.  Not all refresh rate settings are possible with every resolution on any given card.  Quite a few times I've run into a situation where I temporarily had to connect another more capable monitor to a particular Mac setup in order to get video long enough for a mode change, at which point I would go back to using the original monitor.

  This happened to me more often with LCD monitors, although quite a few CRTs fell victim too.  The resolution you said is the maxium for your monitor is a bit unusual.  I'm quite willing to bet your monitor is the issue here.   Either the resolution isn't supported by the video card (likely), or the refresh rate available at that resolution won't sync with your monitor.  Many older LCDs could only sync to 60hz.  Connecting it via DVI may help the video card to better detect the supported modes.  If that doesn't work, try connecting a more capable monitor first, change the resolution and/or refresh rate, and then switch back again.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 28, 2016, 12:10:54 AM
His monitor is working in general, as he stated above (in low resolutions). He just cannot adjust the refresh rate (and resolution) as he has the wrong drivers. He just needs to install them, and will subsequently be able to change everything!
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on June 28, 2016, 08:46:38 AM
  My point was that the card seems like it may be automatically switching at the desktop to a setting his monitor doesn't support.  This is very common behaviour.  If the card is validly displaying video at that stage there would be no way to know for sure without trying another monitor first.  I agree drivers may be the issue, as I was one of the first to question that, but the compatibility of that particular monitor at a particular resolution and refresh rate has to be ruled out first.  As I said, an LCD monitor with a maximum resolution of 1366 x 768 is often a good indicator of a product with limited refresh rate support.  There were lots of similar screens out there with a very limited tolerance for refresh rate settings other than 60Hz at higher resolutions.  The fact that it will function at 640x480 is almost meaningless as just about any monitor will display that resolution and the default refresh rate of the video card at that resolution is almost certainly 60Hz.

  It still would not surprise me if the video card in question doesn't actually offer a 1366x768 resolution setting because it was not a common one.  The video card may be trying to output what it considers the closest possible setting, which may also not be a resolution that particular LCD monitor can support.  (It might me trying to output 1280x768, for example.)  Trust me, I've been through this tons of times before.  He could have working drivers already and wouldn't even know it because the system will keep automatically switching to an output format his monitor won't display, never giving him the chance to switch.  It's one of those all-or-nothing catch22's regarding extension loading that I talked about in another thread.

  Try another monitor for long-enough to switch settings and then go back to trying the 1366x768 monitor again.  Even a monitor that supports a lower resolution may be enough to successfully view video at the desktop temporarily because it would force the video card to pick a different resolution by itself.  It may, in extreme cases, also require a PRAM reset (or double or triple-reset) to get a one-time boot at a lower desktop resolution.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 28, 2016, 02:21:22 PM
  My point was that the card seems like it may be automatically switching at the desktop to a setting his monitor doesn't support
Thats obvious, and of course you are right. And yes, perhaps if he finds some monitor that uses exacxtly the resolution/refresh rate/bit depth that the card puts out after booting, he may get a signal, and the desktop. BUT my point was, that all that card specific/OS specific questions are obsolte as long as he doesn´t have the right drivers to switch to other resolutions.

I got the feeling that we are complicating things a lot, as there were already postings abut "not using 9 natively at all" and such. This is perhaps as many of us have high knowledge and expect "usual" tries before a posting. But I got the impression that Nameci has to do just some very basic steps. Of course I can be wrong.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 28, 2016, 05:28:52 PM
Would an aluminum 23" ACD work on this vid card? The other screen I have is an ACD with the proprietary connection.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on June 28, 2016, 08:53:53 PM
  That ACD model seems to have a really strange horizontal/vertical resolution ratio, but it can't hurt to try.  It is likely a little more advanced in terms of handling resolutions that need to be scaled to fit and unusual refresh rates than your older LCD.  It should be enough to tell if you really are getting visible video at the desktop with the extensions "on".  If it shows on the ACD with extensions "on" then you should be able to switch resolutions or refresh rates and re-attach the older screen.  Even if 2D acceleration fails to enable you should still be able to switch resolutions.  There's a strong chance you won't be able to set it to the native resolution of 1366x768, but hopefully you can find a similar setting that isn't too blurry.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 28, 2016, 10:18:05 PM
I checked again, re:resolution, by booting into OSX. It is actually 1360x768 @59.3Hz, and no other options for the freq enabled. I lowered down the res to 1280x720 and there, 60Hz and 75Hz is enabled as freq options.

I think the vid card is forcing the screen to 1360x768 @60Hz, but what boggles my mind is that why on startup with OS9 it is displaying a higher resolution that seems like 1360x768, but once startup is complete and logging into the desktop the screen would blank and display "out of range".

I have replaced all the ATI extensions with the updated ones (from ^^^), still the same thing so I would think the drivers are ok, my issue would be compatibility with the monitor.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 28, 2016, 11:10:54 PM
If you would have the right drivers, you should be able to change the resolution, at least to anything else, like 640x480@60Hz!
Sorry, but what do you mean by "replaced the drivers"? That is mystical like your "Extensions off" above that you never explained. Did you finally run the ATI installer from within Mac Os 9? I expect not. I got the feeling you are heavily bustling around from the booted Mac OS X within the 9 Systemfolder.

I am giving up here. But don´t blame Mac OS 9! My own 9200 is working perfectly.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 29, 2016, 06:10:31 AM
@Mat,

You said, yours is working perfectly, is the Graphics Acceleration working?

Thanks a lot buddy, and to all who have responded and posted on the thread for all your suggestions and recommendation. I really appreciate your help.

I did install the update files from 2005, with the PC monitor still no dice seeing the desktop, "out of range" still persist. Anyway, it is a chinese made and branded monitor so I would point my finger to the monitor, it is btw a 720p native monitor. I could not even get to the desktop with extensions loaded only up to startup screen where you see extensions icons on the lower left.

Anyway, I did put in the 23" alu ACD, and voila I have the MacOS9 desktop no sweat. That means the drivers are working, ATI extension icon on the upper right of the menu bar can be seen, so that means ATI extensions are loaded, except the ATI Graphic Acceleration is grayed out.

Next I would be trying is a DVI connection instead of VGA. If all goes well I will be in Cloud OS9.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 29, 2016, 06:39:48 AM
...  it would not load the video acceleration extensions.

You should try the MacTron's famous System folder  8) . It is bullet proof and includes the latest ATI drivers, ( including 9200 support ). Furthermore it include the old Monitors control panel v7.5.6 that could change your screen resulution even if you start whith extensions off.

Where can I dl your famous System folder? I will try to change res even when extensions are off.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on June 29, 2016, 08:46:22 AM
  As I understand it, OS 9 works with a 'safe' lower resolution until it hits the desktop, then it tries to switch to what it thinks is the best higher setting for the monitor.  If you see the desktop and shut down through the menu it assumes the setting is good, stores it in the motherboard PRAM, then loads it as early as possible on next boot.  If you don't see the desktop and shut down improperly the higher setting doesn't get saved to PRAM and you get stuck in a loop where it starts at a visible lower resolution and then keeps switching to something else at the desktop.  If you ever reset the PRAM then you get back into the cycle and have to switch monitors again once to get your settings back.

  Your smaller LCD isn't exactly 'crappy', it just isn't designed for a wide range of input settings.  As you see though via the ACD, the drivers are partially working, as I expected.  What isn't working is the acceleration because the card is not recognized as an officially supported variant by the ATI driver.  I can see that yours isn't exactly the same as mine because yours has half the VRAM and some other minor differences in the device declaration ROM fields.  It could be that it was a version without complete OS 9 support and meant only for OS X, or it may be a PC card that had a Mac ROM flashed into it.  If you look at the model sticker on the card it should clearly say "MAC" on it if it was a true retail Mac card and not a flashed one.

  As has been mentioned you may be able to get acceleration working with a modified driver.  Someone else on this forum may be able to help with that.  There may also be a chance the ROM can be flashed to a different version.

  In the end the monitor was the main culprit.  Be happy you can see the desktop because you still have a reasonably usable system even without acceleration because the card is quite fast anyway.  The only things that shouldn't work well would be 3D games and Quicktime videos or DVD playback.  If you don't need those then you can probably continue using the system as it is.

  I will report back later with the specifics of my 9200 card and the drivers I'm using.  And in answer to your other question, yes, acceleration is enabled on my card.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on June 29, 2016, 09:27:32 AM
  Could you post the device profile information from the view in the ATI Displays window also?  I'd like to give you a complete comparison against my card.  I can already tell you that yours has a slightly older ROM version.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on June 29, 2016, 09:54:14 AM
Where can I dl your famous System folder? I will try to change res even when extensions are off.

Here you have:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3176.0.html

First try this System folder with the extensions enabled. You will find that everything works ok, including 2D/3D acceleration, and you could even switch resolutions with the extensions off. But you'll never ever can set 1360x768 in Mac Os 9.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 29, 2016, 08:42:43 PM
Where can I dl your famous System folder? I will try to change res even when extensions are off.

Here you have:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3176.0.html

First try this System folder with the extensions enabled. You will find that everything works ok, including 2D/3D acceleration, and you could even switch resolutions with the extensions off. But you'll never ever can set 1360x768 in Mac Os 9.

@MacTron,

You are right, that system folder is bullet proof.

Initially, I booted with extensions off and change the resolution to a lower resolution of 1280x720 and rebooted normally. Yahoo! it booted well into the desktop, but it froze, though mouse cursor can be moved, but could not clicked menu. I rebooted again to extensions off and copied extensions manager control panel from my previous OS9 and pasted it on the Extensions folder, and by process of elimination discovered Quicktime 3D Rave as causing the freeze.

But you are wrong, it is now working on 1360x768.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on June 29, 2016, 09:11:13 PM
  The available resolutions should be determined almost entirely by the card itself in tandem with what it recognizes about the monitor via the sense pins (VGA/ADC-analog), EDID (DVI/ADC-digital/HDMI), or similar methods for TV-out adapters, but it will also only allow resolutions and refresh rates the video card is itself capable of.  As an example, most of my Mac video cards are old enough to not support 16:9 ratios or other odd combinations.  Oddly enough there was one Nubus card ever that was actually supposed to be capable of 1920x1080, but perhaps I'm drifting off topic there.

@Nameci: Did acceleration enable with MacTron's boot image?  Can you post a screen shot of the device profile in the ATI Displays window so I can see more detail of your card than System Profiler gave?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 29, 2016, 09:18:11 PM
Nope ATI Graphic Acceleration is not enabled, hence, the "X" sign on the icon during extensions load.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: DieHard on June 29, 2016, 10:14:58 PM
To avoid your next headache, One Last tidbit, as discussed here...
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2700.msg17355.html#msg17355

Quote
One Important note is that only the Lucite (clear plastic) version of the 23" will do 1900X1200 in OS 9, the aluminum 23" Cinema will NOT go that high in OS 9, only in X
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 29, 2016, 10:52:45 PM
it is now working on 1360x768.

So did we have a monitor issue, or a driver issue? Is Mac OS 9 as the 9200 innocent as I told the whole time?!
I expect appropriate exculpation from all involved gentleman. Otherwise I have to demand satisfaction in a duel, Saturday at sunrise. Weapons will be the 68k Macs we own, that we are throwing at each other. ;-p
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 30, 2016, 02:51:31 AM
I have tried to install 3 flavors of installers from here.
1. Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install ISO
- updated ATI Drivers as per suggestion and procedure of @Mat
- cannot get to desktop due to "out of range"
- can only get to desktop if booted with extensions off
- cannot change resolution using Monitor control panel when extensions are off
- can get to desktop with 23" Alu ACD

2. Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Drag Install
- updated ATI Drivers as per suggestion and procedure of @Mat
- cannot get to desktop due to "out of range"
- cannot change resolution using Monitor control panel when extensions are off
- can only get to desktop if booted with extensions off
- can get to desktop with 23" Alu ACD

3. MacTron's bullet proof system folder from MacTron's Rescue and Install CD
- can get to desktop at full resolution in both 23" ACD and PC monitor with extensions on but froze on PC monitor, cannot click menus but can move mouse
- can change resolution with Monitor control panel when extensions are off
- freezing desktop was caused by Quicktime 3D Rave extension, can get to desktop at full res 1360x768 using PC monitor after removal of extension

Now the question, what are the differences between this 3 installers and what is it that makes it boot to full resolution? That I have to dig in further...
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on June 30, 2016, 06:10:48 AM
Will somebody explain to me what have just happened?

I have to give the credit to @Mat.

Just now, I have freshly installed 9.2.2 with drag install method. What the heck, I have plenty of time, might as well play with install and see what will happen, might discover something new. Booted first to extensions off, removed all ATI extensions and install drivers from 2005, updated it and rebooted. You know what, it booted up to desktop at 1360x768, my monitor's full resolution and froze. But of course, I know what is causing it, QuickDraw 3D Rave. Booted again to extensions off, made a copy of the settings thru extensions manager and turned off QuickDraw 3D Rave. Rebooted normally, and there I have a full functioning desktop at full resolution.

Thanks to all the good people here who have helped me one way or another thru comments and suggestions to make it happen. I owe you all a pint. Cheers ;D

@MacOS Plus, I cannot open the ATI Displays windows for some reason. I think ATI Graphics Acceleration should be enabled to do this. Mine is greyed out.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on June 30, 2016, 07:07:42 AM
@MacTron,

You are right, that system folder is bullet proof.

Initially, I booted with extensions off and change the resolution to a lower resolution of 1280x720 and rebooted normally. Yahoo! it booted well into the desktop, but it froze, though mouse cursor can be moved, but could not clicked menu.

This system folder is so simple, optimized  and "bullet proof" :) that you should disable extensions just dragging them out of the System folder, not using another extension that can cause troubles at some point ( the extension manager ) to doing actually nothing.

Quote
I rebooted again to extensions off and copied extensions manager control panel from my previous OS9 and pasted it on the Extensions folder, and by process of elimination discovered Quicktime 3D Rave as causing the freeze.

That's a weird problem. May be this issue was discussed here in the past if my memory serves ...

Quote
But you are wrong, it is now working on 1360x768.

Sorry for the inconvenience. But I'm glad to learn something new :)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on June 30, 2016, 07:12:21 AM
Well, seems my joke above wasn´t that funny this time, ... :(

But back on topic. The issue is still strange to me. I suspected the whole time that it shoudl work, butt somehow it didn´t. Don´t know what is different at the other installations, as I never tried them.

Glad that is is working well now. BTW, if we don´t have it already, here is a collection of all ATI Mac drivers: http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/

And, MacTron isn´t that wrong as well. ATI never claimed that your special resolution is possible: http://www.cnet.com/products/ati-radeon-9200-mac-edition-pci-128mb/specs/

So as long as we didn´t have the proove from somebody like you, there still was a real chance that it will not work with the best resolution for you. For me the question is now what resolutions are really possible with different cards. I know there are some good 2d cards out there (like the Matrox) that are superior in providing crazy seldom resolutions like yours.

And finally, MacOS Plus also had a lot of interresting points, and has a high level of knowledge about Macs. Very interresting, and still some new points for me!
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on June 30, 2016, 07:47:05 AM
So did we have a monitor issue, or a driver issue? Is Mac OS 9 as the 9200 innocent as I told the whole time?!
I expect appropriate exculpation from all involved gentleman. Otherwise I have to demand satisfaction in a duel, Saturday at sunrise. Weapons will be the 68k Macs we own, that we are throwing at each other. ;-p

I'll accept the duel if we can throw each others any kind of Intel inside computers instead of our beloved 68k Macs.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 01, 2016, 11:09:14 PM
  Could you post the device profile information from the view in the ATI Displays window also?  I'd like to give you a complete comparison against my card.  I can already tell you that yours has a slightly older ROM version.

I have updated the ROM via OSX ROM updater.

ATI Displays on the OS9 won't open. So, I rebooted to OSX and took this screenshot. After the ROM update, still no ATI Graphic Acceleration.


Btw, posting this via Classilla.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 02, 2016, 02:35:40 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen, I am happy to announce that I have now enabled graphics acceleration for my ATI Radeon 9200 graphics card.

I have arrived into the solution that I only need to run the installer from here
<url>http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1101.0.html</url>,
after booting with extensions off and removing all ATI*.* extensions and I have not installed the update from 2005. I think the ROM on the card is not compatible with the updated 2005 drivers.

Thanks everyone again for the comments and suggestions, it is one hell of a ride. One after effect though, now the resolution is pegged to 1280x720, 1360x768 is not available anymore on the list and the monitor is not identified by the system, it says "VGA Display" now instead of "95QD" which is the model name of the monitor.

But anyhow, I am now a happy camper.

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: IIO on July 02, 2016, 05:23:14 AM
The 1366x768 resolution isn't supported by Mac Os 9. AFAIK.

i think so, too.

in this case the monitor could be the problem and i would recommend to add switchres to the OS9 systemfolder to enable this.

http://www.madrau.com/srx_download/download.html (scroll down)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mat on July 02, 2016, 06:53:42 AM
The 1366x768 resolution isn't supported by Mac Os 9. AFAIK.
i think so, too.
Grrr, ... read the thread, and stop just "scanning the informations"! It is neither Mac OS 9 nor the graphiccard itselve, it is the driver. He had 1366x768 running well with the other driver (but then had no 3d acceleration).
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 02, 2016, 11:29:54 PM
The 1366x768 resolution isn't supported by Mac Os 9. AFAIK.
i think so, too.
Grrr, ... read the thread, and stop just "scanning the informations"! It is neither Mac OS 9 nor the graphiccard itselve, it is the driver. He had 1366x768 running well with the other driver (but then had no 3d acceleration).

@Mat, that is correct. Just the drivers. I would say that it also needed a clean install of the system.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: IIO on July 03, 2016, 08:06:03 AM
So did we have a monitor issue, or a driver issue?

it is even more complicated.

beside the actual card driver, the card, its firmware and rom version, the operating system and possible system extensions to it there is another possible player in the game, which is the monitor cables.

if you use a very old VGA cable with a modern monitor oyu might also run into resolution troubles, because the communication with the monitor wont work.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: IIO on July 03, 2016, 08:08:15 AM
Will somebody explain to me what have just happened?

this can mean anything.

among other things, using another systemfolder also means you got rid of the monitor preferences and eventually even updated info about it in the PRAM.

so it is never 100% sure that some new dirver of that new system folder is what fixed the issue. :)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 03, 2016, 08:58:52 AM
I have played around a little bit. I have booted into OSX again and tinkered with ATI Displays. Now I know, things that you set on the sofware side is being written on the card. I disabled/unchecked a setting which enabled hardware scaler for non-apple monitors (or something to that). After that, I have 1280x768 instead of 1280x720 only. That is on the OSX side.


I rebooted back to OS9, hoping that I get the same selection but failed. Oh well, still I am happy with what I have now.

One more thing, I have updated the ATI extensions to 2005 except ATI Graphic Accelerator, the result I still have graphic acceleration, so it means this extension from 2005 is causing conflict with my the card.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on July 05, 2016, 01:15:30 PM
I have two identical monitors connected to a MDD with a nVidia Ti 4600. As I'm having some issues with the DVI connector, one of the monitors are connected via VGA ( the other remains connected via DVI ) . And Just realised that the DVI accept 1344 x 756 but not the VGA. And both have a really different resolution options.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on July 05, 2016, 01:19:05 PM
  The available resolutions should be determined almost entirely by the card itself in tandem with what it recognizes about the monitor via the sense pins (VGA/ADC-analog), EDID (DVI/ADC-digital/HDMI), or similar methods for TV-out adapters, but it will also only allow resolutions and refresh rates the video card is itself capable of.  As an example, most of my Mac video cards are old enough to not support 16:9 ratios or other odd combinations.  Oddly enough there was one Nubus card ever that was actually supposed to be capable of 1920x1080, but perhaps I'm drifting off topic there.

MacOS Plus is right.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 05, 2016, 03:12:44 PM
I have two identical monitors connected to a MDD with a nVidia Ti 4600. As I'm having some issues with the DVI connector, one of the monitors are connected via VGA ( the other remains connected via DVI ) . And Just realised that the DVI accept 1344 x 756 but not the VGA. And both have a really different resolution options.

Final update. Yesterday, I have searched over piles of computer junks I have and I have found a DVI cable. And yes 1360x768 and correct monitor ID can be attained by using DVI instead of VGA. I have now 1360x768 and is it just perception but things do look sharper than before?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 07, 2016, 06:50:52 AM
  Could you post the device profile information from the view in the ATI Displays window also?  I'd like to give you a complete comparison against my card.  I can already tell you that yours has a slightly older ROM version.


@MacOS Plus,

Would you care to share your copy of the ATI Displays control panel? I cannot find it on my control panels folder, probably the reason why I can not be able to open up ATI Displays from menu bar menu.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacTron on July 07, 2016, 09:40:25 AM

Final update. Yesterday, I have searched over piles of computer junks I have and I have found a DVI cable. And yes 1360x768 and correct monitor ID can be attained by using DVI instead of VGA. I have now 1360x768 and is it just perception but things do look sharper than before?

i have told you before :


Try the DVI connector, it is  more reliable usually and the image quality is better.


 ;D
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 07, 2016, 09:47:18 AM
Yes, I wanted to, but that time a DVI cable is not available. I have to go over a pile of junk to look for the DVI cable.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on July 07, 2016, 10:25:40 AM
  The "ATI Displays" control panel I have is version 3.2.1, which appears to be the final version.  I got it from the installer "ATI Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Software Update November 2002" downloaded from http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#8500 (http://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#8500).  I am using that in combination with the other files from the Jan 2005 update.  There is a note on that page saying the 9200 isn't supposed to be supported by the ATI Displays control panel, but clearly this isn't fully true since the retail card I have with the existing ROM version does work with it.  There's another note that says you may get a black screen on first boot but then it will work after a reboot.  I've never experienced that with any variant of the ATI cards I own that were referenced in the note.  This may or may not have been partially related to your initial problem, but I think we've ruled that out by now.

  One additional observation I'll make when dealing with LCDs with odd resolutions - Most of these were actually intended to be televisions.  I just picked up a second-hand Sony LCD TV that has a native resolution of 1280x768 but will accept and scale to fit 1920x1080i from the component or HDMI connectors.  BUT, if you connect a computer using the VGA port on it the max resolution detected and allowed by the video card is the native 1280x768.  You must use the HDMI connector if you want the higher input resolutions available.  I just tried it hooked up to OS X via a DVI-to-HDMI cable and the video card then offers all the available resolutions including all the interlaced television modes.  The irony is that the manual for the TV expressly said NOT to connect a computer to the HDMI input, but obviously this was nonsense.  A lot of older video cards will not support high-resolution interlaced modes, but the ATI Radeon 9800 I'm testing with does.  This is a fine example of the potential differences in available modes and detection on certain LCD monitors with multiple input connector formats, and it is a clear warning to always thoroughly test all connection options before blaming drivers or the video card.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: IIO on July 07, 2016, 04:47:17 PM
  The available resolutions should be determined almost entirely by the card itself in tandem with what it recognizes about the monitor

MacOS Plus is right.

not at all, with most monitors you get like two times the possible resolutions shown to mac os 9 when you use third party software - some monitors wont work with the apple control panel at all.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on July 07, 2016, 06:59:45 PM
  Yes, obviously it is possible to use additional software to allow forcing settings that the card and or monitor don't report as available/supported.  Sometimes that will work and sometimes it won't.  It doesn't change the fact that the default options presented to the average user are based on what is encoded in the card and monitor ROMs or sense pins.  Overriding those predefined resolution tables wasn't really part of the discussion, but this would likely not have been relevant if the OP had never been able access a visible resolution first in order to make changes.  The monitors control panel only shows settings it's told are supposed to be available.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 08, 2016, 12:16:37 AM
Below are screenshots of the ATI Displays. It says "Powered by unknown ATI Graphics". Is it just normal?

@MacOS Plus, can you compare the ROM version between yours and mine? I am assuming that my cards ROM is older than yours. 

It says, gfx memory to be 64MB, whereas on the system profiler it says 128MB.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on July 08, 2016, 08:52:08 AM
Your ROM: 113-A27502-124
  My ROM: 113-A27502-127

  The ROM you currently have is the last one 'officially' distributed by ATI for end-user updating.  The 127 version was provided on a number of retail cards pre-installed.  This is probably the only reason the ATI software doesn't fully recognize your card.

  If you are willing to go the 'unofficial' route, the 127 ROM can be found and flashed using alternate methods.  What is critically important is determining whether or not your card is a legit Mac version or a PC version re-flashed.  The PC ones use a 64k ROM chip while the Mac ones use a 128k ROM chip.  If you flash the larger ROM image into the smaller chip it won't work and you would need access to a PC computer to put the old ROM back in.

See the following link and read through the discussion in detail:

http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10039&st=15 (http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10039&st=15)

More information and ROMs here:

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2 (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2)

  There's actually an even later ROM for the 9200 available from that site but I don't think I feel the need to try it given that my card is working properly with the stock 127 ROM.  I would strongly suggest that you don't flash your card via the unofficial route if you don't have a PC available as a fallback.  If you flash on the Mac and the ROM is not compatible or truncated you won't get video any more on the Mac if it is your only card.  It is easier on a PC, and sometimes the only way possible in this circumstance, to use a second video card for your monitor while running the ROM flash.  That way you always have one working screen no matter what happens with the 9200 card.  If you're not comfortable taking the risk then don't do it.

  Oddly, even the final August 2005 ROM updater for Radeon has just the 124 version as the maximum included.  Anything later has to be flashed another way as I mentioned.

  One final note - My 9200 card still shows as "unrecognized" in ATI Displays, but acceleration is enabled and working with the 127 ROM.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on July 08, 2016, 10:22:17 AM
  BTW, does anyone know what changes or feature additions were part of the 201 ROM for the Radeon 9200?  I can't find mention of this anywhere.  Also, are the changes in features only applicable to OS X?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 08, 2016, 09:46:04 PM
Your ROM: 113-A27502-124
  My ROM: 113-A27502-127

  The ROM you currently have is the last one 'officially' distributed by ATI for end-user updating.  The 127 version was provided on a number of retail cards pre-installed.  This is probably the only reason the ATI software doesn't fully recognize your card.

  If you are willing to go the 'unofficial' route, the 127 ROM can be found and flashed using alternate methods.  What is critically important is determining whether or not your card is a legit Mac version or a PC version re-flashed.  The PC ones use a 64k ROM chip while the Mac ones use a 128k ROM chip.  If you flash the larger ROM image into the smaller chip it won't work and you would need access to a PC computer to put the old ROM back in.

See the following link and read through the discussion in detail:

http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10039&st=15 (http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10039&st=15)

More information and ROMs here:

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2 (http://themacelite.wikidot.com/wikidownloads2)

  There's actually an even later ROM for the 9200 available from that site but I don't think I feel the need to try it given that my card is working properly with the stock 127 ROM.  I would strongly suggest that you don't flash your card via the unofficial route if you don't have a PC available as a fallback.  If you flash on the Mac and the ROM is not compatible or truncated you won't get video any more on the Mac if it is your only card.  It is easier on a PC, and sometimes the only way possible in this circumstance, to use a second video card for your monitor while running the ROM flash.  That way you always have one working screen no matter what happens with the 9200 card.  If you're not comfortable taking the risk then don't do it.

  Oddly, even the final August 2005 ROM updater for Radeon has just the 124 version as the maximum included.  Anything later has to be flashed another way as I mentioned.

  One final note - My 9200 card still shows as "unrecognized" in ATI Displays, but acceleration is enabled and working with the 127 ROM.

My ROM is older than yours, so maybe that is the reason why the ATI Graphic Accelerator extension from 2005 will not work. I have an FW800 MDD, can I use that to flash the PCI 9200?

I remember buying this card from OWC, so I would guess that it is a Mac Edition?

<url>https://eshop.macsales.com/item/ati%20technologies/100436011/</url>
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on July 08, 2016, 09:52:13 PM
  Yes, but the necessary program for doing the unofficial flashing requires you to boot OS X to run the process.  After that you can return to OS 9.

See this link:

http://thomas.perrier.name/graphiccelerator.html (http://thomas.perrier.name/graphiccelerator.html)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 08, 2016, 10:03:45 PM
  Yes, but I believe the necessary program for doing the unofficial flashing requires you to boot OS X to run the process.  After that you can return to OS 9.

I have dl'ed graphicellerator to flash it on osx, wish me luck. lol. -afro-
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 09, 2016, 12:52:59 AM
Success!

Put in ATI Radeon 9200 PCI to one of the available slots on my FW800 MDD DP1.42 running Tiger. Downloaded the ROM from "themacelite" and Graphicellerator (as advised by @MacOS Plus - thanks man), boot on safe mode and from the app folder run "Run me first". Open up graphicellerator, open up ROM file to load. Run multiflasher, restart and boot normally.

Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: MacOS Plus on July 09, 2016, 09:20:38 AM
  Enjoy! ;)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on July 09, 2016, 09:47:02 AM
Thanks, I did, really!

Besides the fact that I have enjoyed using OS 9, I have enjoyed the processes to make this card work as per my expectations. I have a little OCD, I want all the stuff I put on my computers to perform on their full potential. I floor the gas pedal once in a while... lol.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: IIO on July 09, 2016, 11:29:29 AM
  Yes, obviously it is possible to use additional software to allow forcing settings that the card and or monitor don't report as available/supported.  Sometimes that will work and sometimes it won't.  It doesn't change the fact that the default options presented to the average user are based on what is encoded in the card and monitor ROMs or sense pins.  Overriding those predefined resolution tables wasn't really part of the discussion, but this would likely not have been relevant if the OP had never been able access a visible resolution first in order to make changes.  The monitors control panel only shows settings it's told are supposed to be available.

thanks for a clean roundup.

maybe one day someone will make an operating system which does not always attempt to hide stuff from users at first.

but to be fair, the OS can of course not know what resolutions will be availbel fpr this monitor and this card using DVI as long as DVI isnt connected. problematic by design, but somehow unavoidable with monitors newer than the card. :)
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Apfel on December 28, 2016, 04:05:14 PM
First of all hello to everyone,
I came to this forum with a new hope for my Radeon 9200 mac edition pci 128mb. Unfortunately what I believed to be the hope for it (the ultra rare ATI july 2005 update) wasn't. Here's what happens: The card shows perfect picture but every Radeon 9200 compatible driver refuses to load and the system freezes upon showing the desktop. Could it be a damaged card? My system is: B&W G3 with a G4 400mhz original from "Yikes!" overclocked to 450mhz with proper voltage tweak, 1GB memory, 80GB + 40GB HDs, LG DVD-RAM, 2 Voodoo2 8MB in SLI, using a Radeon 7000 64MB which is working perfectly. I tried removing the voodoo2 cards, using it on the 33mhz slots but everything failed. I don't what else I can do for it to work as it's claimed to be 100% compatible with my system. Any help is appreciated.
Sorry I am digging out this old thread, but for completeness, may I ask: do you remember, if that desktop freezing lasted? I have both a mac pci 9200 128MB and a flashed 9200 AGP 128MB and I had the desktop freeze with the flashed one as well with the mac retail one. But somewhen I noticed, if you wait long enough the card will somewhat "awake" and you can, for example see that an item you cicked 1-2minutes ago will no react. After this everything will react immediately. So I won't give up on that card too early, if you still possess it and want to use it.

Also the cards might work under 9.1, but they didn't under 9.2.2

Here is what I did (scroll down to "I succeeded"). http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,303.msg780.html#msg780

The problem is not only the ATI drivers / ROM. It is also coming from, when you installed an OS 9 version from another Mac (in my Case from iMac G3 DV original orange 9.0.4 CD that had been updated to 9.1 and then copied to the G4 and applied the update). The iMac G3 version wouldn't run on the G4 with the 9.2.2 update and the ATI 9200 (but with the ATI 128pro and other cards such as the Nvidia MX2 and 4).
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Nameci on January 25, 2017, 04:31:10 AM
Success!

Put in ATI Radeon 9200 PCI to one of the available slots on my FW800 MDD DP1.42 running Tiger. Downloaded the ROM from "themacelite" and Graphicellerator (as advised by @MacOS Plus - thanks man), boot on safe mode and from the app folder run "Run me first". Open up graphicellerator, open up ROM file to load. Run multiflasher, restart and boot normally.

What gives? Same card, just noticed it recently. 128MB now its 64MB?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: filipetolhuizen on April 21, 2017, 09:01:16 PM
Mine only started to work properly with the updated Mac OS 9.2.2 from here.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: Mike Richardson on July 27, 2017, 12:06:13 AM
Can the Radeon 9200 on an eMac be flashed with any of this new ROM? Does flashing then allow acceleration in OS 9?

eMac has a very old ROM, like, maybe version 106? Horribly old it seems? It never got any updates either?
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: drzeissler on August 13, 2019, 11:23:36 PM
- Do the R9200 PCI drivers for MacOS9 also work with the G4-Mini R9200AGP?
- Can these drivers be installed/bundeled in the G4-Mini install-cd
- Do these drivers (ati-displays) provide control over the gpu. (activate vsync and 16AF) ?

Thx
Doc
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: darthnVader on August 14, 2019, 02:16:54 AM
- Do the R9200 PCI drivers for MacOS9 also work with the G4-Mini R9200AGP?
- Can these drivers be installed/bundeled in the G4-Mini install-cd
- Do these drivers (ati-displays) provide control over the gpu. (activate vsync and 16AF) ?

Thx
Doc

The v8 CD already comes with a modified version of the R9200 drivers.

There are no OpenGL overrides for Mac OS 9, ATI also never updated the ATI Control Panel to support the R9200.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: drzeissler on August 14, 2019, 05:00:16 AM
Not sure about that: https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/
ATI-Displays also works up OS8 and above. I think it might be possible to get control over the gpu (vsync/af)
https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CR
https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CS


------
update: you are right: "This installer has no "ATI Displays" control panel so you should use this driver as update (exclude the Radeon 9200, that is not supported by the ATI Displays control panel)."

Argh, that's BAD news.
Title: Re: ATI Radeon 9200 + Mac OS 9.2.2
Post by: trag on August 29, 2021, 04:25:38 AM
Saw this old thread today and it brought back an old trouble shooting memory.

I think what I mention below might explain some of the problems that folks in this thread reported.

This was my experience on an MDD.

With the ATI drivers which are installed with the OS 9.2.2 update, QuickTime 6.0.3 will lock up the machine during extension loading. The mouse will move but clicking the mouse and typing on the keyboard will have no effect.

The culprit is ATI Video Accelerator 4.8.5. Update to 4.8.7 by installing the January 2005 ATI OS 9 Mac Software Update. If you have an nVidia card, this probably isn't a problem. This experience occurred with a Radeon 9000.