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Classic Mac OS Hardware => DAW - Audio & MIDI Hardware => Topic started by: systemseven on June 06, 2022, 02:34:21 PM

Title: protools on a 7100?
Post by: systemseven on June 06, 2022, 02:34:21 PM
i might be given a powermac 7100 with a nubus protools card in it (not sure the exact card), but no HDD
i dont know if the protools card was just stuck in there or if this was ever a studio system because it has no cables and no i/o rack unit.

my question is, is it possible to use the protools card if i install a new HDD/OS, or is everything locked away with user copy protections etc?  i dont want to buy an 888 and cable only to find out i cant actually use the card.  im not particularly interested in multi-track recording with this (maybe Deck II?), just like to experiment using it is a DSP for turbosynth or other sound design.  do older versions of protools have DSP accelerated audio effects too - and if so, are they iLok hobbled or whatever?  i only have experience using premiere plug-ins, never used protools!

i see the 7100 listed as compatible in this list:
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/compat/CompatSysNB.html
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: rvense on June 06, 2022, 03:43:03 PM
I have a 7100/80 with a NuBus ProTools setup, though dismantled currently. I was able to get it working with cracked software from here and the Garden. There are some effects, but you can only run two at a time on a basic two-card set since a lot of the DSP is used for mixing. At least, that's how it is for me - contemporary reviews make it sound like you can run more, but I haven' t been able to. At any rate, these are early-generation DSP effects, they're not very high quality and depending on your tastes might not be very interesting. The Nubus cards are also RAM starved, the longest delay is less than a second as far as I remember. I like my setup, though, it's cool to have this under System 7.

For Turbosynth, you don't need Protools, there's only one function that runs on the PT cards, if you don't have it it just gets disabled. It's not a very interesting effect.

For me, the jewel of this ecosystem is actually the SampleCell card, which is an 8-out sampler that integrates very well with Turbosynth (you can make it load sounds automatically as you edit them in TS), and with the TDM mixer. At least for me as more of a "build electronic music from scratch" than "record bands" type of person, that is a setup that has some interesting qualities as a whole. You can buss its sounds through the TDM effects before going out throw the ProTools audio interface, along with the audio from ProTools, and all in all it becomes a lot like a modern DAW setup, only rather primitive and with the black and white System 7 klunk, which I personally think is very cool. I'm currently using my G4 + RME-based system but I miss the Nubus setup at times.

NB: If you want to use the TDM audio capabilities, you need two drives: one to boot from, and one that's connected directly to the Protools core card. Also note that not all "black" audio interfaces are compatible with the old systems. You want the very early ones. I have an extra 882 I could part with for a very good price (I'm in Europe).
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: IIO on June 06, 2022, 04:12:31 PM
given that there was no RTAS at that time and an 7100 would not be able to run a good reverb in realtime anyway, those "2 plug-ins per DSP card" is a relatively huge progress. :)
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: garnopal on June 06, 2022, 04:21:55 PM
Hello,

Back in the 90s, we had a 7100 in the studio. Our very first Power Mac!

Have a look at the card. It is probably one of these:

-   Sound Accelerator for 2 channel Sound Tools interface
-   SA 4 for 4 channel Pro Tools 442 interface
-   Session 8 for 8 channel 882 or 888 interface

unfortunately, this card is absolutely useless without its interface...

But you can take advantage of Deck II (or another DAW of the time) without any card, by simply using the internal AV of the 7100, although this solution is pretty limited compared to a complete Pro Tools TDM system... And let me know about the card...
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: systemseven on June 06, 2022, 05:41:46 PM
thanks for all the answers!  definitely something to research - ill go ahead and pick up the 7100 and see exactly which card is in it and report back. 

the turbosynth module that needs a dsp is the "diffuser", right?  is that just a short lo-fi reverb then? 

i currently have a PCI based 7500 with crescendo G3 and 1gb RAM (system7 and os9 on scsi2sd).  there is a PCI samplecell too?  i have three empty PCI slots in that one and was thinking about a radeon graphics card, korg oasys, and maybe a korg 1212 (adat and midi i/o) but am i missing out on anything fun in digidesign land?  i dont really need a graphics card (i dont game on it) so if there is a more interesting dsp card or something?  like rvense im not really interested in multitracking bands with it, but rather just experimenting with older sound design software and hardware.  alchemy, turbosynth, soundhack, granular, max/msp, stuff like that
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: IIO on June 06, 2022, 05:46:28 PM
media blueICE for after effects (PCI, OS 9.1+)
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: garnopal on June 07, 2022, 03:52:20 AM
Sorry, I have forgotten a fourth hypothesis:

The card also may be an Audiomedia II and in that last case, you do not require any external interface, it has its own AD and DA converters.

It is just an I/O 2 channel card and do not increase the number of voices, which is software depending. A nice sounding unit, perfectly usable still today.

http://archive.digidesign.com/support/propix/AM2.html
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: rvense on June 07, 2022, 12:23:03 PM
The AudioMedia II card will also support the Turbosynth Diffusor, but it can't run TDM plug-ins, but it will do four tracks of CD quality audio (at least I think it's four, it might be two). It also won't allow you to run the Samplecell outs into Protools directly, so you'd have to mix externally (that might not be too bad). There are a few TDM plug-ins I like, like the GRM bundle which does various weird granular things.

The Digidesign cards have SoundManager drivers BTW, so you can get better quality output from anything. Not sure if everything does it. At least some later PCI ones only have ASIO drivers.

And yes, there's PCI Samplecells too, they're more or less the same thing.
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: garnopal on June 07, 2022, 02:22:57 PM
Pro Tools TDM will require at least two cards (interface driver and DSP Farm) with a TDM daughter card for each of them, plus ribbon cable and terminator card. Also, there was an authorisation floppy disc for using the TDM plugins (is there a way to do otherwise ?)

If the 7100 came without any interface, the card presently inside is more probably an Audiomedia II. This would be good news for it runs Turbosynth, and GRM Tools too ! The first version of this software was a stand-alone 68k application. Still have it on a HD. Definitly something to try if you are in sound experiments :)
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: rvense on June 08, 2022, 11:04:57 AM
Also, there was an authorisation floppy disc for using the TDM plugins (is there a way to do otherwise ?)

Some are available with this bypassed. I think I found most of mine here

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/ppc-audio-software-os7-osx58-some-68k-apps

This would be good news for it runs Turbosynth, and GRM Tools too ! The first version of this software was a stand-alone 68k application. Still have it on a HD. Definitly something to try if you are in sound experiments :)

Can you upload that? I only have the TDM versions.
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: garnopal on June 08, 2022, 03:34:54 PM
Thank you for the link. GRM Tools stand-alone is already in the list ! It is the 1.51 version. I think this software was created for the first Digidesign Sound Tools, then brought to Pro Tools and Audiomedia II through the Digidesign Audio Engine. Hope it will work on your PTIII system.

This summer I will retrieve my old hardware and maybe some software to upload. I was curious to visit eBay today and saw several Audiomedia II cards with crazy prices... Everybody back to the nineties ?
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: IIO on June 09, 2022, 10:32:53 PM
back in the days i did not get it to work with the AM III PCI, it kept telling me driver would not be available.
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: smilesdavis on August 28, 2022, 12:34:31 PM
whats a amiii card worth these days on ebay?
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: IIO on August 28, 2022, 03:31:15 PM
try 45
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: smilesdavis on August 28, 2022, 08:18:43 PM
media blueICE for after effects (PCI, OS 9.1+)
thats a nice doorstopper since Final Effects Complete
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: smilesdavis on August 28, 2022, 08:19:35 PM
try 45

ill try 700 and see if a retrohead gets it
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: IIO on August 29, 2022, 10:40:14 AM
for 700 you can have mine.
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: DieHard on August 29, 2022, 10:52:06 AM
They bring about $100 US in awesome condition

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304602487273?hash=item46ebb919e9:g:rRgAAOSwCMtaVmYL&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoL%2FFU6Vf941Kdyvjl0Za3ejyy7xctSTPgHhUM7GPYCXdmmmlZTpCWfqiMPFWXej%2BvjvCDEeLZUEva3ddr%2BI9n4JDIzTj72R2ZMQWBd5B%2BgIfAHYQrLH%2FX1vWuHL1AgiJsmf%2F0DurOIMZDLXWzcv45%2FmJoeYpWcoYDnB4EKZeWBmxCV1mb0TNCcUHlixrEWXzdwYNR%2FzbAAqpE91m%2BXS0I6M%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4qn06vdYA
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: smilesdavis on December 27, 2022, 01:20:13 AM
last 4 went for 300
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: DieHard on December 27, 2022, 08:28:08 AM
This one $65

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304602487273?hash=item46ebb919e9:g:rRgAAOSwCMtaVmYL&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoL%2FFU6Vf941Kdyvjl0Za3ejyy7xctSTPgHhUM7GPYCXdmmmlZTpCWfqiMPFWXej%2BvjvCDEeLZUEva3ddr%2BI9n4JDIzTj72R2ZMQWBd5B%2BgIfAHYQrLH%2FX1vWuHL1AgiJsmf%2F0DurOIMZDLXWzcv45%2FmJoeYpWcoYDnB4EKZeWBmxCV1mb0TNCcUHlixrEWXzdwYNR%2FzbAAqpE91m%2BXS0I6M%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4qn06vdYA

and $45...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195485325852?hash=item2d83d55a1c:g:~QcAAOSwYKdje54v&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8KbBFgwotYY4zu0yDFSJ0IllCMXKvB8xlcXZqNr%2BhFgcm7rcYldVJE9%2Bj5mV18AbJNVYIoVSRwsTCuNnJsbQtvKpvMEFiVmiyO78UCvNij8AZ0ZernM1y2vR5KK848f2yyPPiK0WxiOqoVwC8dLbOC3R4qw%2FDauvKOMiICP1m5XpQXqUWUwYa8rg%2B5wNVH5%2BP6IzFEsoupHvyrZWLRLTQgGy%2BvPvkGkfgbbfoAInZ%2BOU2qCy2CklB%2BU3l%2FOs5eyAYUV8grWRqiAaJfgOEXeDQOcEpaah2l%2FHNTTPYwkgW0S4WmtAMHOKI9Q0xE4wVq6H7A%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7Kdz8aqYQ
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: IIO on December 29, 2022, 10:24:55 PM
i think he wants it in a sealed box for his museum.
Title: Re: protools on a 7100?
Post by: smilesdavis on December 29, 2022, 10:52:45 PM
I got a boxed amiii, i confused it with amii and thus the prices

Do i know you, iio? Are your ad hominems somehow a iio character we have to live with thing or have we met?