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[IIO]

that is sick

[DaCat]

I'm going to be able to do some shootouts in both OSs with a variety of popular music DAWs, just bought an Apple G4 1.25 (MDD 2003) M8570 on eBay, the question I'm wondering is it looks like it has a Sonnet CPU upgrade though the outside Apple sticker lists it as the DP 1.25.

It came from a graphic design house so for an intensive use like graphics they might well have boosted the CPU. I will have to wait till the end of the month when I've paid to find out. The CPU is red colored and has a triangle logo that looks like Sonnet but I'm not familiar with them so not sure.

If anyone wants to take a guess you can see it here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Power-Macintosh-G4-1-25-MDD-2003-M8570-/141627439029?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=h4phA1xR5CsQcJBLPJbux%252F2DKII%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[Knezzen]

If it has a Sonnet CPU upgrade it's a very valuable one. The MDD upgrades didn't exist for very long on the market. The heat sink is also wrong for a Dual 1.25ghz model. That's the Dual 1.42ghz heatsink (copper).

If you ever want to sell the Sonnet upgrade, tell me!

[Protools5LEGuy]

If anyone wants to take a guess you can see it

It seems the copper heatsink from the dual 1.42 machine.

Can't say any more with those pictures. It is a FW 400 model. Go to http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?board=62.0, pick up one and check if your CPU is the 1.25 dual original or a newer 1.42 dual as the heatsink suggest.

[Knezzen]

Ah, now I get it... The block with the red triangle is just the stock heatsink ford the dual 1.42ghz MDD. This is an original apple part. You will have to remove the heatsink to see the CPU.

Just look in the menu "About this Mac" when you get it. If it's a Dual 1.25ghz G4, it's the stock CPU like it says in the listing.

[supernova777]

my single procssor 1.25 2003 definately doesnt have a copperheatsink 
it must be a dual... i thought the fw800 machines were the only ones that came with copper heatsinks?

its most likely the stock dual 1.42 cpu from a fw800 thats been swapped in.. to be able to use the higher level cpu with mac os 9.. either that or they just somehow got given the copper heatsink .... the listing is definately wrong tho.. the 2003 mdd did not come with a copper heatsink!!!!!!

the dual 1.25 was introduced in 2002.. it must be the 1.25ghz dp 2002 model. but its confusing because it actually says 2003 on the back case...  so apparently they were still selling the 2002 dp in 2003..

[supernova777]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Sonnet-Encore-G4-CPU-upgrade-1-6ghz-XG4DG-1600-B01-MDD-XSERVE-/111640919194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fe513c9a&nma=true&si=jGDsy0aZwHfdZY%252BSkp1uqfKAXds%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

here u see a sonnet mdd cpu upgrade for an xserve..
with its signature purple heatsink..

how is it they were able to make the heatsink so small
compared to the stock apple cpus

[Blazeoptimus]

here u see a sonnet mdd cpu upgrade for an xserve..
with its signature purple heatsink..

how is it they were able to make the heatsink so small
compared to the stock apple cpus

There is a couple of reasons the sonnet cooler is much smaller. The first is that it's using a 7447a chip.  The 7455 series ran hotter due to a higher power requirements (the 7455 was built on a 180nm process and the 7447a was built on a 130nm process - smaller process nodes require less power to operate).  It's the reason apple was able to stick a 1.67ghz part in a PowerBook G4 and it wouldn't overheat.  Imo, the cooler running processor is also a compelling secondary reason to upgrade to a sonnet mdx

The second is that this particular sonnet upgrade requires an active cooler (a fan, etc).  The 1.42 copper cooler is passive and depends on that small fan at the front of the case to provide enough air flow to dissipate it's heat.  As soon as you apply even a small dedicated fan to the built in cooler it becomes much more capable. 

Imo , the fastest technically possible upgrade for an MDD (to the best of my knowledge has never been made though) would have been a dual 7448 - which easily scaled to 2 ghz.  The built in 1mb cache, would have given the discreet 2mb l3 a run for it's money (or surpassed it).  As the mdd had the highest available FSB/memory bandwidth with MPU capabilities, it could have surpassed all other G4 implementations.  But I guess there just wasn't enough of a market for that type of an upgrade.

[GaryN]

The second is that this particular sonnet upgrade requires an active cooler (a fan, etc).  The 1.42 copper cooler is passive and depends on that small fan at the front of the case to provide enough air flow to dissipate it's heat.  As soon as you apply even a small dedicated fan to the built in cooler it becomes much more capable. 

Methinks you might be confusing the MDD with something else? The MDD has one big 120mm fan smack in the middle that ends up adjacent to the CPU sink when you close the case.
My Sonnet 1.8 runs all day long with just that fan.

[supernova777]

i never said that?

[GaryN]

You're right - you didn't. That was Blazeoptimus. I don't know how it was attributed to you…

[GaryN]

AND WHILE WE'RE ON THE SUBJECT:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-PowerMac-Sonnet-Encore-Duet-MDX-Dual-G4-CPU-upgrade-1-6ghz-MMD-and-XServe-/161711331572?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a6bf18f4

The $249 price reflects the rarity and the CPU is the earlier, slower 1.6GHz but there it is.
The seller is also showing a tiny fan on the heatsink that might fit on an Xserve but is unnecessary on an MDD.

[Blazeoptimus]

You're right - you didn't. That was Blazeoptimus. I don't know how it was attributed to you…

I think you quoted my quote maybe?  I figured the fan was probably pretty close, but in any case most of the mods for cooling listed on this site (or for CPUs in general) implement active cooling right on the cooler.  If you stuck a fan on the back of the cooler that pulled air through it, I feel certain that it heat dissipation would be better. Eh, it's just a thought. I tend to lean toward the 7447 has having a greater impact on heat generation.

[Protools5LEGuy]

At that price, better to be stock and buy another MDD.
There is a thin line between cheaps PowerMacs and $$$$ Apple collectors CPU upgrades.
I will not cross that $$$$ line for sure. If you can make music with a G3 233-450 why spend 500-800 bucks on a 866 to 1.x upgrade?

Just bought a 1.8 dual Sawtooth/GE with 1.75 Gigs of Ram mainly for its CPU.  My 4th G4 Dual.

[mrhappy]

Nice!!

[bsharvy]

What's the single biggest and *stable* upgrade you've seen? I had a PowerMac 7500, which came with 100 MHZ 601 CPU. I upgraded it to a 400 MHZ G3 and it worked very well. I assume a 400 MHZ G4 would have been great too.

So, that's 4x MHZ, and 2-step processor (601, 604, G3).

That whole line, from the 7500 - 9600 was good for upgrading. I think it was basically the "Pro" line of its day.

[DracheMitch]

What's the single biggest and *stable* upgrade you've seen? I had a PowerMac 7500, which came with 100 MHZ 601 CPU. I upgraded it to a 400 MHZ G3 and it worked very well. I assume a 400 MHZ G4 would have been great too.

So, that's 4x MHZ, and 2-step processor (601, 604, G3).

That whole line, from the 7500 - 9600 was good for upgrading. I think it was basically the "Pro" line of its day.

Indeed the 7300-9600 were the "Pro" computers of their day.  They were used extensively by creative professionals and mathematics modelers until it was clear Apple did not have a viable path for a modern Mac OS (Mac OS X was not a path, but an entirely new OS, so…)  The 7200-8600 were all the same motherboard, basically.  The 9500/9600 had a very similar motherboard but with a second PCI controller for more slots.

There is a hard speed limit for most vintage processors based on the bus speed.  Most G3 could only run at 10x the bus speed and know that the 1st gen PCI PowerMacs only had 50MHz buses.  There were late-model G3 accelerators that broke this barrier (I don't know how), but they were rare and expensive and not worth it compared to G4 upgrades.  The G3 was based on the 603e, so it runs very cool, especially compared to the 604s most people were upgrading.  The G4 was basically a G3 with the FPU from the 604e added along with the AltiVec unit (doesn't run as cool).  The 604e, and subsequently G4, was a BEAST in FPU performance in its day.

Assuming there would be enough interest, the best upgrade path for vintage Macs would be FPGA.  There are several FPGA boards with PowerPC cores.  Right now, most vintage computer enthusiasts are focused on 68k AIO Macs.  In fact, there's already ROM upgrades for Mac II-era machines to make them 32-bit clean and add ROM disks for booting.

[IIO]

upgrading my 7300 to a g4 400 with 500 cache once was a hughe improvement - some +250% more realtime processes.
i wished that the 2002 quicksilvers had such options, too.