Mac OS 9 Lives
General => Off Topic => Topic started by: SonikArchitects on May 07, 2014, 08:27:48 PM
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Hey all,
So I'm in the process of some CPU upgrades, SSD installs and Magma chassis shenanigans on my 4 beloved G4 computers (an 867, a dual 1Ghz, and 2x Dual 1.25 Mirror Doors).
I've been reading these forums for a while, and I have so much to share with you guys, it's bordering on silly. My OS9 computers are still my great workhorse studio computers (Retinal displays, 12 cores and fancy new black trash cans aside!).
So I thought I'd start here. I just bought a new 13 Channel PCI13-R chassis from Magma and was completely and totally unable to get my dual 1 to recognize this chassis. We'll Digi, Magma, no one could help. Instead of formatting as a story...I'll include my email to Magma today when I finally pwned this system.
Here it is, in all it's glory. The name of the email may be my favorite part.
Email subject : "I rule"
Hi Ariel,
I got it working. This is going to be a long email and I’d like to speak to you as I need to order/swap the cards and cables you sent me for older cards and cables. Contrary to the assertion that your devices do not have firmware/REV versions…they most certainly do and I’ve proved it by solving this problem.
SO:
The controller cards you sent to me (host and expansion cards) do not work with any generation of Protools 24 (Mix, Mix IO, Core, Farm etc) cards whatsoever, in any iteration. My Korg Oasis card is the only card that the chassis can see with the new controller cards you guys sent.
This card (I pulled from a 7slot Magma expansion chassis WORKS). However there is a very specific combination of placement, cards, order and specific versions of software that makes Digi Mix 24 cards recognized in a PC13-R Magma chassis.
[This is the top view of the working controller card i.e. the one in the Chassis]
[THIS IS THE BACK VIEW OF THE WORKING CARD IN THE EXPANSION CHASSIS]
Expansion Interface card
PCI-EXP 2.1
PYE 3255A4
01-03522-00 REV (left blank)
I need a matching pair of the above cards and 2 cables (one new and a spare) for my other system. I am happy to send back the cards I just purchased to swap for the older cards. I am also happy to pay for the cables.
I was told this system would work with my Protools Mix 24 system. It’s an absolute miracle I was able to figure this out and since I was very specific in my initial correspondence and made a purchase based on the assertion this would work, I am sure Magma will be gracious and accommodating.
Moving on, to make this work the controller card in a 5 slot G4 can ONLY be placed in Slot 2. It will not work in any other slot. After the card is seated properly you have to purge PRAM and reset the NVRAM. It will not work if you do not do this.
The (old) expansion controller card must be in slot one of the expansion chassis. The old (do not know how many pin) cable must be securely connected.
Next you MUST run the OS9 Magma card viewer application. I got this from your website. If you do not do this before running DigiTest the cards will not be recognized.
Finally you have to have followed the Digi recommended hierarchy of card placement. No other iteration that Core(s), Mix Farm(s), DSP farms (s) will work. I am still unsure how much bus power these will draw so until I’ve worked on the rig for a while, I will not know how many of these cards can be in the chassis and working stably.
Okay so next you have to run the very last version of DigiTest. It was made in August of 2002. It’s the last version of DigiTest in OS9. NO OTHER VERSION OF THIS APPLICATION WILL RECOGNIZE THE CARDS AND MAKE THEM AVAILABLE FOR USE. Once you run this, you test the cards…it all works.
So can you call me, feel free to admit my genius (lol), and then sell me cables and swap the cards. I’ve called Magma a hundred times and never gotten a person on the phone. Also if you guys would like to write this up and make it available to other users trying to do what I just did, feel free too.
All my best,
_BT
From @BT
Sent with Sparrow
So much more to tell you guys it's crazy but I'll save it for another day. This place rules.
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Awesome to hear from an other Pro Tools 24 MIX user! What do you use your system for? I understand it must be a pretty imoportant system if you decided to buy a new Magma chassis rather than a used one on ebay.
I myself have a 5-card MIX system (just need a 10-slot TDM-cable to expand it now) with 1x888/24, 5x882/20, ADAT Bridge/24. It's a kick-ass system!
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didnt read it all, and i can only guess.
you know that protools requires the master bus, dont you? so any PCI expansion case you want to run a PT card with should 1.) offer a matser bus and 2.) be connected to the host computer´s PCI masterbus itself.
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110: Don't quite follow now if im honest. If you mean PCI Master bus as in the PCI controller chip, everything you connect on the PCI ports has to talk to the PCI controller in order to work. If you mean it as the conventional PCI bus master, the first MIX Core card is working as a bus master.
If you read up on it, depending on the motherboard etc, there can be pretty much endless bus master cards.
These cards pretty much has the ability to talk to other PCI cards on the bus, just like the MIX cards does in the Pro Tools system.
What the Magma is, is simply an extension of the PCI ports, hence you can put bus master cards on it as well (why wouldn't you be able to?)
So... I don't follow you ;)
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well, there is always only one. at least thats what i thought. maybe it isnt true for G4´s anymore, but back in the days only the AGP and the PCI bus #2 allowed bus mastering. which caused a lot of questions from first time PT users.
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ok, i googled it up, it is different from what i thought. ;) the point with the bus mastering of TDM was that it sucks so much bandwith that you often couldnt install additional cards which also required a high bandwith (and did bus mastering, with or without time sharing)
no idea where i have the idea from that you must install your first PT card into the first conventional pci bus of your computer, but i remember a discussion with a manufacturer of another card about its compatibility with PT (clara from symbolicsound) and major opinion was, "as long as a card doesnt do bus mastering at all, you can install it side by side with TDM."
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actually, in the article the OP posted its also stated that you have to use the first slot (bus 2). so at least that part of my story is right. :)
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BT? u mean Brian Transeau?
http://www.discogs.com/artist/2737-BT
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Yep that's me :)
I've got some killer pictures coming for you guys in the next couple weeks. Refurbing all my G4's at once. Excited to share. 867, Dual 1G, and two MMD's. I still use them all the time. Can't wait to get them home. CPU upgrades, eSata and more. Standby for killer pictures :)
Best,
_BT
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dude u were on my mind when i was helping to create this place i had found an interview of u on youtube using logic..
thats hilarious. full circle.
words fail me.
i need a vulcan mind meld lol
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ8ZzKck1Os[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcx6KVtpb_0[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG3pXDOofaY[/youtube]
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Hey BT, I'm curious about how you balance Logic and PT5. Currently I've got the two synced via IAC but it took a pretty special combination to get it as good as it is.
I'm using Logic strictly for Midi and PT5 for audio only. Long story short, the best method I've found is to send MTC from Logic (all audio drivers disabled) into PT and to send MMC from whichever one you want.
Are you syncing up multiple systems?
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im curious as to which interface he used back when this footage was taken... RME? Pro tools HD?
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During that footage I was using 5 or 6 888 24's (Can't remember how many now, but way too many). I hated those things. You had to calibrate everything with eyeglasses screwdrivers. Do not miss them! Anyway, in terms of sound I've come to prefer the slight grit of the 1622's. All my current rigs I use those (Current OS9 rigs).
To answer the question of balancing PT and Logic, I don't use PT. I use PT hardware in OS9 on Logic 6.4.3 so I can do hardcore destructive editing as audiosuite, within logic. It's the most powerful rig I have ever had.
I've got one of those new black trashcans (which although looking cool) is fairly uninspiring. I do love Kontakt for film composition and shortly after that video was made I set up a blade server (8PC's) to write strings, brass etc for films (each computer was a different "instrument"). Glad those days are over too.
OS9 for me is the ultimately inspiring environment. Wether I am doing destructive editing in Logic, Thonking things, Chunk Mungering, Sonik Worx(ing) things, I am never bored.
I often think in the same way analog synths peaked prior to surface mounted boards (Pre-say 86'), computers peaked in terms of an open ended ideology and aesthetic that encouraged and inspired Sound Design (in about 95-96).
Funnily many of my EDM friends and even fellow film composers that watch me work on my OS9 rigs start by scratching their heads saying "wow that looks old and cheesy" to "holy shit, I can't do any of that on my modern computers". This look happens over the course of about an hour. Then most go home and start putting together an OS9 rig. True Story.
Anyway, this place is awesome. Great to be here, thanks for having me.
_BT
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It is a great honor to have you among us.
It would be great if you share with us your setup with 4 G4s...
I've got some killer pictures coming for you guys in the next couple weeks. Refurbing all my G4's at once. Excited to share. 867, Dual 1G, and two MMD's. I still use them all the time. Can't wait to get them home. CPU upgrades, eSata and more. Standby for killer pictures :)
You are a veteran from the OS9 days (and even before ) and for sure can give us solid information on workflows in this decade using OS9 and Logic 6. I mean, how you organize your exs24 folder, how trimmed is your extension folder, preferred samplers within OS9 and so. Always if your calendar allow you to do it.
Apple used your songs to demonstrate Logic 6 Mac vs Cubase PC ! ;D :D
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Apple used your songs to demonstrate Logic 6 Mac vs Cubase PC ! ;D :D
glad at least someone else knows who BT is;)
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Allright....I admit....I didn't know BT before his post. But...since he's giving his track a Dutch name "Vervoeren" I got interesed. BT why did you? I know now your tracks are published on Armada....did Armin really insist? ;D
However I am very impressed. You should have been a guest at Aly & Fila FSOE300 last year in Amsterdam. Your sound matches perfectly. If you are in the Netherlands and in need of a OS9 system...you're welcome....just a couple of miles from Armada HQ. 8)
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Musicians like You are the best example on how Mac Os 9 is still a good alternative -if not the best- to make music.
Welcome to Mac Os 9 Lives!
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Apple used your songs to demonstrate Logic 6 Mac vs Cubase PC ! ;D :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs45bsjy6qA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs45bsjy6qA)
Emagic talking about G5 with logic!
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/p526x296/10457855_10152320403295095_4180882864432979762_n.jpg)
7 JULY. "The holy quad returns"
On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bt (https://www.facebook.com/bt)
Damon Runion: Time for an upgrade. If its more than 6 months old, its outdated. Sorry to be so blunt.
BT: These computers are 14 years old and are capable of things no modern system is capable of. From destructive editing to forgotten molecular level spectral smearing and abandonware granular operations, I literally could not make what I make without these. Peter Gabriel said something amazing to me first time I went to Real World. I saw his writing setup (It was a CP70, Prophet 5, Mac IIc, a mic and a pad of paper + pen. I was kinda shocked. After all this is one of my heroes. In the next room was a massive wrap around SSL he was completely uninterested in. That was his writing setup. I asked why. His response was : "Once you get good at something, always keep it close". I will never forget that. In this day and age where a phone lasts 6 months. People loose site of the critical understanding that once you find a part of your musical voice...it warrants nurture, refinement and finally mastery. These systems are an inherent part of my musical voice the same way my 6 string yamaha bass is, a Prophet 5, my hands, my mind. Think about that the next time you think you're making yourself better by upgrading even software. Master what you have.
Damon Runion: Very cool Brian. I work in the software industry, I agree there are always ways to crack a nut more smoothly and efficiently. I make my living demoing the latest and newest stuff. There are not many true craftsmen any longer. You are definitely a Master Craftsman. My hats off to you. If my grandmother answers the phone call my cousins beeper. Thanks!
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https://www.facebook.com/bt/photos/a.10151780158635095.1073741828.7470710094/10152101290910095/?type=1&relevant_count=1
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https://www.facebook.com/bt/photos/a.10151780158635095.1073741828.7470710094/10152440904765095/?type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/bt/photos/a.10151780158635095.1073741828.7470710094/10152440904765095/?type=1&theater)
9-SEPTEMBER
(https://scontent-a-mad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1461133_10152440904765095_4762205084188088935_n.jpg?oh=d75051b3540a90132ddbdf971976e9bf&oe=54C41FC4)
I know more about this system at this point than Apple, Digidesign, Korg or well anyone honestly lol.
Got the Oasis and SampleCell II+ working today with Magma 13 slot. eSata of all my old songs, this system is insane. Can't wait to put this in the new studio.
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thats alot of pci slots
:o :o :o
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I have one of those chassis for sale. Well, an older one, but still 13 slot. Buy ffs! ;)
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http://electronicopus.com/ (http://electronicopus.com/)
An Electronic Symphonic album featuring the best music from world renowned multiple platinum artist, film composer & technologist... BT
WHAT IS ELECTRONIC OPUS?
Electronic Opus is a unique and immersive Electronic Symphonic album project featuring the most popular songs from the award winning, world renowned, multiple platinum artist, film composer and technologist BT. BT is considered one of the people who transformed modern music forever and is widely acknowledged as the godfather of trance.
Start with the power and excitement of electronic dance music (EDM), blend in the emotional and classical tones of a symphony orchestra, and the result is Electronic Opus, a first-of-its-kind, high-energy album and live concert experience arriving in March 2015.
Produced by BT and the award-winning composer and Video Games Live creator Tommy Tallarico, Electronic Opus features BT’s signature EDM hits re-imagined, re-arranged and remixed with a full orchestra.
“This collaboration is an acoustical merging of tradition and technology, not simply symphonic versions of popular EDM songs,” says Tommy Tallarico, creative director and executive producer, Electronic Opus. “This ‘electronic symphonic’ collaboration reinvents what a 21st century symphonic experience can be: incredible high-energy, melodic electronic music from one of the top artists in the field blended with the artistic and cultural merits of a full symphony.”
“Whenever we would bring up this idea with record companies and executives, they would never take us seriously,” explains BT. “They don’t believe that people who listen to electronic music would fully appreciate the symphony experience and vice versa. With Electronic Opus we're looking to prove music lovers of all types will embrace this new form of orchestra experience. To make this dream a reality we need the help of our entire community.”
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/445474695/electronic-opus (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/445474695/electronic-opus)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/881/948/fee2d9c435ba5134ca0ddaa13bcaeef4_large.jpg?1415582835)
WOW! Shark diving! LOL!
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i believe "shark diving with the artist™ kickstarter" has been patended by biogen and me in 2002, but we cvould not make any use of it since we are underground artists and therefore the minimum bid would be in the range of 2-4 billion USD.
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i believe "shark diving with the artist™ kickstarter" has been patended by biogen and me in 2002, but we cvould not make any use of it since we are underground artists and therefore the minimum bid would be in the range of 2-4 billion USD.
I think something is loose on translation.... ???
I like BT music, but I would never swim in a pool/sea with sharks, even if I am been paid for... :P 8)
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BNDcxODkyMjY4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwOTk5NTc5MDE@._V1_SX214_AL_.jpg)
But the Electronic Opus album is a great idea. Maybe some EDM fans did not have the choice of hearing a Full Orchestra plying some of his/her favorite tunes.
Good Luck Brian!
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I have one of those chassis for sale. Well, an older one, but still 13 slot. Buy ffs! ;)
whats the price?
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whats the price?
Make me an offer ;).
Im sure the shipping costs would be killer to the other side of the world, though.
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i dont know the prices to make an offer.. i have very little info on this equipment..
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i dont know the prices to make an offer.. i have very little info on this equipment..
Allright. It's one just like this one if you're interested:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magma-PCI-Expansion-System-PCI13BP-13-slot-PCI-chassis-with-01-04626-XX-board-/231362723622?pt=US_Signal_Processors_Rack_Effects&hash=item35de4aff26
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I just bought a new 13 Channel PCI13-R chassis from Magma and was completely and totally unable to get my dual 1 to recognize this chassis.
Dealing with PCI Expansion Chassis Problems...
http://web.archive.org/web/20021218124252/http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1135.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20021218124252/http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/tn1135.html)
When designing PCI cards, it's easy to overlook the fact that the card may be plugged into an expansion chassis. Therefore, it is possible for compatibility issues to arise if you do not allow for certain conditions. This note provides information on many of these conditions, and explains how you might avoid some problems.
A PCI expansion chassis can present several problems to the PCI card designer. Variations of interrupt latency, propagation delays, intercard compatibility, and other problems can be introduced by the sub-bridge architecture inherent to this design.
This note is directed at developers of PCI cards so that they will understand the compatibility issues that might arise if their product is used in a PCI expansion chassis. There are both hardware and software issues that need to be considered.
(http://web.archive.org/web/20021218124252im_/http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/images/tn1135_001.gif)
It worth looking for any chassis owner, having troubles or not...
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFEq2RDVgSs[/youtube]
1995
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SonikArchitects is busy
Final day of mixing Electronic Opus at Skywalker Sound! What an amazing experience this has been. Been using my Blue Microphones Mofi Headphones all week.
Can't wait for you guys to hear this
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https://www.facebook.com/bt/videos/10153639002535095/ (https://www.facebook.com/bt/videos/10153639002535095/)
OS9 time correction and Sound Design in full effect. I'd die without all these 90's plugins. Sound so modern it's crazy.
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OS9 for me is the ultimately inspiring environment. Wether I am doing destructive editing in Logic, Thonking things, Chunk Mungering, Sonik Worx(ing) things, I am never bored.
I often think....
in the same way that ANALOG SYNTHS PEAKED
--prior to surface mounted (Circuit)boards -- before 1986) --
i think that COMPUTERS PEAKED
--in terms of an open ended ideology and aesthetic that encouraged and inspired Sound Design --
(in about 1995-1996).
this makes sense as that was the peak of patch editors + hardware integration + librarian apps.. each app had its own patch editor + librarian (copying the atari based apps which provided the same even earlier)
this is an interesting observation that corresponds to my own ascertations ;D -afro-
(so this means, Cubase 3.0, Logic 3.0, Opcode Studio Vision 3.0, cakewalk pro audio 5.0, Pro Tools 4.0, etc) (funny that all the versions almost line up in around this time regarding version3.0 aswell!!!)
this would also mean System 7.5 + win3.1/win95 operating systems :o
Funnily many of my EDM friends and even fellow film composers that watch me work on my OS9 rigs start by scratching their heads saying "wow that looks old and cheesy" to "holy shit, I can't do any of that on my modern computers". This look happens over the course of about an hour. Then most go home and start putting together an OS9 rig. True Story.
Anyway, this place is awesome. Great to be here, thanks for having me.
_BT