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Author Topic: Akai S series and Zip disks  (Read 2441 times)

wayneh69

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Akai S series and Zip disks
« on: May 21, 2024, 11:29:34 PM »

Hi

I have an Akai S3200 sampler connected via scsi to a Zip drive and a PowerBook Wallstreet running OS 9.2.1.

I want to run MESA and Recycle to send, receive and process samples from these apps to the sampler. The scsi connections are all fine BUT because the Akai needs to arrange the Zip disk in a proprietary way with partitions and volumes - every time I insert an Akai arranged Zip disk OS 9 requires me to either initialize or eject - no option to ignore. This effectively means I can’t use the Zip disk.

Has anyone experienced this and has a work around? I could buy an internal Zulu scsi - but I already have a gotek fitted and an external Zulu scsi plus I just really want to use the Zip disks!

Any help would be very much appreciated.
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robespierre

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2024, 12:11:34 AM »

I believe you would have the same problem with any type of drive: the Mac host and the sampler can't share access to disks.
You need to disable the automatic SCSI bus scanning. Try running Mt Everything and disable automatic scanning in its options menu.
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ssp3

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2024, 12:59:15 AM »

Gallery had a solution for this, although I've never tried it with ZIP disks.
Also, try to disable Iomega extension.

Quote
Interpreter utilities

When using Interpreter with a CDRom Drive, the Mac operating system objects to the AKAI disc as it cannot understand it.
The Interpreter Utilities overcome these problems.

Allow Foreign Discs
This tells the Apple CDRom driver not to post disk inserted events. This allows you to insert an AKAI CDRom without the Finder declaring that it is not an Apple format disc, and forcing you to eject it.

Eject Foreign Discs
This resets the Apple CDRom Driver so it will operate correctly with Mac Discs.

Force Eject
Sometimes the Eject button CDRom drives is inoperational when the CDRom driver is disabled. The Force Eject Utility will Always Eject the CDRom regardless of the situation.

Note that these Utilities are designed to work with the Apple CDRom driver, and may not work with other CDRom Drivers.
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wayneh69

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2024, 03:44:02 AM »

Gallery had a solution for this, although I've never tried it with ZIP disks.
Also, try to disable Iomega extension.

Quote
Interpreter utilities

When using Interpreter with a CDRom Drive, the Mac operating system objects to the AKAI disc as it cannot understand it.
The Interpreter Utilities overcome these problems.

Allow Foreign Discs
This tells the Apple CDRom driver not to post disk inserted events. This allows you to insert an AKAI CDRom without the Finder declaring that it is not an Apple format disc, and forcing you to eject it.

Eject Foreign Discs
This resets the Apple CDRom Driver so it will operate correctly with Mac Discs.

Force Eject
Sometimes the Eject button CDRom drives is inoperational when the CDRom driver is disabled. The Force Eject Utility will Always Eject the CDRom regardless of the situation.

Note that these Utilities are designed to work with the Apple CDRom driver, and may not work with other CDRom Drivers.

Thanks for this.

I have had "allow foreign disks" suggested as part of MESA on a Facebook Akai forum as a possible solution. Unfortunately I cannot find any reference to a plugin on the searches I've done so far, and I don't know what interpreter is. I'll have a look to see if I can find the original post and see if I can track something from there - but if anyone has any links they can share - especially if they know of a MESA plugin or any OS9 way of 'allowing foreign disks' I'd be very grateful!


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hoovers@dawn

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2024, 01:16:52 PM »

Are you trying to access the Zip disk from os9?

Or is the zip disc interfering / stopping you with your smidi transfers / dumps to the sampler?

If you’re wanting to mount the zip to organise the samples patches etc on os9 I dont think this is possible without chicken system translator 6.
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DieHard

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2024, 03:22:56 PM »

This may not help at all, but if you want to play with these samples in OS 9, this method which may work (works with AKAI CDs)...

1) Have. SCSI Zip connected, but no Zip disk in it

2) Launch Cubase 5 VST/32 with Halion as a VST Plugin (possibly from my "instant DAW")

3) In Halion, pick Akai import, now load Zip Disk

This will import all patches and samples, but may not really be what you want as far as the ability to utilize them in recycle
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IIO

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2024, 07:40:05 PM »

i am not so sure if this really works for media other than CD like it does for CDs.

but if it works, what diehard suggests is the way to go: first open an application which can import such formats, click "import" ... and then insert and mount the media (or disk image file)

this sometimes works simply because some of those programs in question bring the required tech (supressing the OS´s idea to eject unreadable volumes) with them.

CDXtract for example also does not not need "allow foreign disks" when i remember right.
though it has another interesting feature releated to that: it does not even need to mount volumes from disk images, it can read directly from image files. in this case, the OS does not know anything about what happens.
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wayneh69

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2024, 11:56:50 PM »

Are you trying to access the Zip disk from os9?

Or is the zip disc interfering / stopping you with your smidi transfers / dumps to the sampler?

If you’re wanting to mount the zip to organise the samples patches etc on os9 I dont think this is possible without chicken system translator 6.

Hi- I’m not trying to do anything with the Zip disk from os9as such. I just want to be able to manipulate samples usingMESA or Recycleand then send them back to the sampler and save them into the Zip disk from the sampler. But because os9 can’t read the Akai disk partition scheme(I chose arrange and not format when I prepared the Zip disk in the Akai) it will not let me proceed past the error message and requires me to either initialize the disk or eject it. So I need a plugin for some other utility that disables this in OS9.

It seems to be a particular issue for me as if I eject the Zip disk to allow me to then use recycle etc, I can only save samples to the Akai via the floppy emulator, which is slow, but is a viable workaround. Or I can install a zuluscsi or equivalent in the MO slot. BUT I just can’t believe this is problem that Connor be overcome. In a windows environment this does not seem to be an issue and I have seen many YouTube vids of people using recycle and mesa happilybwill connected to a Zip drive in their scsi chain.

Frustrating!
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wayneh69

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2024, 12:02:17 AM »

i am not so sure if this really works for media other than CD like it does for CDs.

but if it works, what diehard suggests is the way to go: first open an application which can import such formats, click "import" ... and then insert and mount the media (or disk image file)

this sometimes works simply because some of those programs in question bring the required tech (supressing the OS´s idea to eject unreadable volumes) with them.

CDXtract for example also does not not need "allow foreign disks" when i remember right.
though it has another interesting feature releated to that: it does not even need to mount volumes from disk images, it can read directly from image files. in this case, the OS does not know anything about what happens.

Thanks both- I think this is the way to go, it’s really a case of find the right application ! Quite a faff but I guess there are no easy hacks.tbh I coming round to the view that I need to ditch the Zip drive, which is a shame as I really love those things!
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wayneh69

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2024, 12:39:38 AM »

Hmm - also just had a thought. What if I install an internal zuluscsi? Won’t I just have the same issue with the mac seeing whatever akai formatted hard drive in the scsi chain? Sooo - what if from the Akai, I choose a scsi id that has no drive assigned? Will this work around the problem? One to try this weekend…
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ssp3

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2024, 02:06:15 AM »

Hmm - also just had a thought. What if I install an internal zuluscsi? Won’t I just have the same issue with the mac seeing whatever akai formatted hard drive in the scsi chain?

I'd say consult the AKAI manual regarding installation of MO drive and compatibility with another host (Mac) on the SCSI chain.

Also, if you have large collection of ZIP disks, why don't you try internal ZIP drive (with mounting kit) in place where MO was supposed to go. Or install MO drive there, although, knowing AKAI, there might be some specific requirements regarding compatible models.
(When floppy drive in my S950 died, I went thru many different ones until I found one that (only half-way) worked. I also remember replacing CD-ROM drive in someone's AKAI and that wasn't without the problems too).
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wayneh69

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2024, 02:21:26 AM »

Hi there - both the S3000 manual (and the s3000xl manual) and the MESA manual are silent on the issue, and are pretty old - so I wonder of this is a OS 8.6 - 9.2.2 issue? In any event when the mac sees the scsi drive (whether internal or external to the Akai) it will surely just see it as an external drive to the mac?

This is quite preplexing. I’m going to see if I can fiddle with the pahsing of turning things on/and manupulating the external scsi id that the Akai is looking for to see if I can trick the mac. So…turn on external scsi devices, turn on akai, point the Akai to an unused scsi id foir the external HD, turn on mac, load up recycle of MESA, ensure external zip disk is inserted, point Akai at scsi id of external zip…

Well shall see
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redstudio

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2024, 10:36:26 AM »

I had an Akai 2800 in the past.. I think the problem lies with the SCSI chain.. if I remember correctly, a lot of time has passed, in the SCSI chain there is a master and the rest slaves. If you connect the Mac that acts as master it sees all the units as slaves, this is probably why it doesn't recognize the zip cassette and asks you to format it, because it isn't recognized by the Mac. the only way to use the zip is to disconnect the mac in this way the sampler acts as the master and recognizes its format, or use the connected zip by formatting the cassette in a format recognized by the mac, therefore not Akai. Or have a program on your Mac that recognizes the Akai format, open it before inserting the zip cassette, tell it to search for Akai format and then insert the zip cassette. this is according to my experience.
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wayneh69

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2024, 11:45:13 AM »

Thanks
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wayneh69

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2024, 12:58:42 PM »

I believe you would have the same problem with any type of drive: the Mac host and the sampler can't share access to disks.
You need to disable the automatic SCSI bus scanning. Try running Mt Everything and disable automatic scanning in its options menu.

Thanks - I’ve found this and will install and give it a try!
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refinery

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2024, 03:30:57 PM »

Hmm - also just had a thought. What if I install an internal zuluscsi? Won’t I just have the same issue with the mac seeing whatever akai formatted hard drive in the scsi chain? Sooo - what if from the Akai, I choose a scsi id that has no drive assigned? Will this work around the problem? One to try this weekend…

As long as you have "Scan PC Disks at startup" disabled in the file exchange control panel it should be fine. I have this setup in my s3200xl with a scsi-2-sd and leave it in and never have problems.
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hoovers@dawn

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2024, 03:35:49 PM »

CD extract halion etc are no use here...


Ok you just have to ignore the Zip drive unless you have chickensys translate 6 which is absolute shite if you ask me & $$$$ for a legacy clunky program...

The only real method for what you’re asking with out chicken sys is...

Format zip with akai sampler > Dump from recycle to sampler > save to zip from sampler (programs / samples ) & keep clicking ignore the zip in Mac OS if possible... you will not be able to access the akai formated zip.

I don’t know if mesa can access drives or not I’ve never used it? I’m a akai s1000 s1100 ex1100 user 😎 my approach is peak 2.5.3 for smidi dumps over scsi to the sampler or recycle but I personally prefer peak for sample editing/ edit programs in sounddiver then save to scsi2sd or flash floppy from sampler
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hoovers@dawn

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2024, 03:38:02 PM »

Hmm - also just had a thought. What if I install an internal zuluscsi? Won’t I just have the same issue with the mac seeing whatever akai formatted hard drive in the scsi chain? Sooo - what if from the Akai, I choose a scsi id that has no drive assigned? Will this work around the problem? One to try this weekend…

As long as you have "Scan PC Disks at startup" disabled in the file exchange control panel it should be fine. I have this setup in my s3200xl with a scsi-2-sd and leave it in and never have problems.


This is the answer he needs!
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wayneh69

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2024, 06:09:47 AM »

Hmm - also just had a thought. What if I install an internal zuluscsi? Won’t I just have the same issue with the mac seeing whatever akai formatted hard drive in the scsi chain? Sooo - what if from the Akai, I choose a scsi id that has no drive assigned? Will this work around the problem? One to try this weekend…

As long as you have "Scan PC Disks at startup" disabled in the file exchange control panel it should be fine. I have this setup in my s3200xl with a scsi-2-sd and leave it in and never have problems.


This is the answer he needs!

I can't see any option that says "Scan PC Disks at startup" in the file exchange control panel - the nearest I can see is "PC SCSI Disks: Mount at startup" option, which is unchecked.

Can you be more specific? Sorry to be a newbie pain but this is a really annoying "feature" of MESA / OS9 !
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Architecture

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Re: Akai S series and Zip disks
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2024, 09:26:39 AM »

There should be an option to ignore the disk. Looking through the manual myself and trying to see how I got around this myself. You might be able to dismount the disk from the Mac using Adaptec SCSI Utility to dismount that ID.

Ill keep looking into this. I plan to make a video for both Mac and Windows on how to setup Akai Mesa, SCSI, and Recycle for a future set of episodes of "This Old DAW"
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 10:01:58 AM by Architecture »
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