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[Roman78]

What would be the best way or tool to backup a system disk to a backup file?

A friend of mine owns an old PowerMac 6500 running OS 9.1. He uses this machine to run a cutting plotter. Runs fine, but he did not have a Backup... for over 20 Years....

I'm not that firm in OS9. I would not install any software, i would like to Boot from a CD and create a backup file on a USB drive. Oh, yes.. it has a USB 1.1 card.

[Mat]

One nice thing about Mac OS 9 is that you can simply copy everything (well nearly, pending print jobs do not work for example). You can simply copy the entire disc to another and it will boot fine.

BUT: do not use USB as any drive will most probably be formatted in FAT. You need an HFS+ formatted mass storage device. Best would be to hook up another cheap HD (6500 should all have IDE) and copy everything there.

Of course there are some solutions for "real disc copys" as well, or even professional backup solutions, but they are not necessary for a first quick backup.

[Roman78]

Problem would be a cheap HD. What would be the biggest possible? Old computer have some issues with to big harddisks.

[IIO]

USB 2 to SATA adapter (1,95 euro) + 128 gb SSD (20 euro)


ist nicht teurer als ein stick, aber vielseitiger verwendbar und geht nicht so leicht verloren. stromversorgung über USB 1 ist im gegensatz zu HDDs überall problemlos.

und wie mat richtig anmerkt, für diesen zweck bitte auf jeden fall als HFS+ formatieren. dann ist es nämlich in der tat ausreichend einfach den systemordner zu kopieren. wobei ein old world mac vermutlich nicht über USB davon booten wird, das geht erst ab imac.

das kopieren geht auch vom laufenden system. nur zum zurückspielen später muss von der CD gebootet werden.

...und beschriften bevor man das backup in den schrank legt.

[ovalking]

You could use Disk Copy to create an image file of your System disk. Then copy that to your back-up medium.
That meets your requirements to create a file you could copy via USB, without installing software.

But Retrospect (network version) is best for my needs...

[teroyk]

What would be the best way or tool to backup a system disk to a backup file?

I don't know if this is best way, but I have used this many times.
I connect Mac with firewire cable to another Mac that is installed Mac OS X.
I boot OSX Mac first then I boot OS 9 Mac with T-button down, so that mac looks like firewire HD to OSX Mac.
I make image with DiscCopy (come with OSX)...remember choose whole disk, not just partition.
After writing image to new disk, you can extend partition or add more partitions with iPartition.

I think both Macs can be OS 9 machines, but I newer have tested, because when I have make this, I didn't
have two OS 9 Macs that time. iPartition is OSX only.

[DieHard]

For a standard/simple backup use this...

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2750.0.html

dantz Retrospect Express v4.1 Backup Software

Retrospect Express 4.1 is an excellent solution for Apple Computer's iMac customers. Customers can back up important files today over the Internet and use new USB devices (such as the Imation SuperDisk) as they become available.

New Disaster Recovery CD
Retrospect Express 4.1 now ships on a CD that starts up all modern Macintosh computers including the latest G3 and iMac models. Packed with a Mac OS 8.1 a system folder, Disk First Aid(TM), and Drive Setup(TM) utilities, users can boot off the CD and either repair the damaged hard drive or reformat it and restore the files, all without having to install a temporary system.

Support for New Devices
Retrospect Express 4.1 includes support for almost any removable drive including Zip, Jaz, SyQuest, MO, CD-R/RW, and DVD-RAM. New drives supported in this release include:
-- DVD-RAM drives from Panasonic and Hitachi
-- SuperDisk from Imation (USB device)
-- CD-RW drives from Philips and Yamaha

========================================= OR ==================================

If the plotter software is copy protected in any way, you can go extreme.. this will make a "perfect" image:

Apple Software Restore v2.2.5 with Apple Disk Copy v6.5b13

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1822.0.html

The ASR or "Apple Software Restore" is a Utility for advanced users that is used to create a restore image from a Mac OS volume, and also restore that image to a new blank volume while preserving the settings of copy protected software that would normally not function after being copied.

[IIO]

right, why make it simple when it can be complicated.

[DieHard]

Exactly

[Mat]

boot OS 9 Mac with T-button down, so that mac looks like firewire HD to OSX Mac.

That would lead to what exactly – at his 6500 without FireWire? 
And no, another machine with another OS is no simple backup solution. Well, one could as well setup a Linux machine, install a well working proper Netatalk with AFP and copy the HD over LAN. But that might be as well an overkil, when any (!) mass storage formatted as HFS+ would be enough for a first backup, …

[teroyk]

boot OS 9 Mac with T-button down, so that mac looks like firewire HD to OSX Mac.

That would lead to what exactly – at his 6500 without FireWire? 

  ...I should remember that: read first question first...

[Roman78]

Oh, lots of things to try. I'll experiment and will report my preferred solution.

[Roman78]

You could use Disk Copy to create an image file of your System disk. Then copy that to your back-up medium.
That meets your requirements to create a file you could copy via USB, without installing software.

But Retrospect (network version) is best for my needs...

So.. now i finnaly got the Computer. Disk Copy would not work because the disk is to large. Disk Copy only copies 2GB of data.

I'll try the Retrospect CD next. But first I make a one-on-one copy onto a new disk. 

[Roman78]

One nice thing about Mac OS 9 is that you can simply copy everything (well nearly, pending print jobs do not work for example). You can simply copy the entire disc to another and it will boot fine.

BUT: do not use USB as any drive will most probably be formatted in FAT. You need an HFS+ formatted mass storage device. Best would be to hook up another cheap HD (6500 should all have IDE) and copy everything there.

Of course there are some solutions for "real disc copys" as well, or even professional backup solutions, but they are not necessary for a first quick backup.

I just copied everything on a other hard disk, but it won't boot from it. First i initialised the hard disk on a Powermac G4 using 9.2.2, than i copied everything onto the harddisk. But it won't boot. Is there a difference between os 9.1 and 9.2.2?

[ssp3]

A word of caution!

Before you do anything with your friend's PM6500 internal IDE drive, ask him if his plotter software is copy protected and, if so, what kind of protection it uses.
Some copy protection schemes use drive's boot sectors to hide their copy bits there. These will not be copied by traditional backup software!
Only two methods of preserving those are known to me, but they require careful planning and execution of each step.

And do not connect that drive to OSX machine yet, or it will have uncorrectable B-tree errors afterwards.

[ssp3]

You have to "bless" the System folder. Move System suitcase out of System folder briefly and then move it back. That should do it.

[Roman78]

Hmmm i hope he does not have any of this copy protection, but I think he could not tell me.

So blesing. Hmmm I am using a German Version of OS9. I moved the Folder that looks like a suitcase out of the System Folder an d moved it back, but it still wont work. 

[ssp3]

Any chance that the drive you're copying to is larger than 190 GB?

[Roman78]

Nope, 40 GB.

Well what do you know... it boots on the original 6500 but not on the G4. But the G4 should be compatible from 9.0.4 upwards. According to Everymac (https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_500_dp.html).

So it is blessed and working, but the G4 is the problem. I'll try a different G4, maybe the Dual G4 is somehow a problem.

And somehow he did not copied the stuff on the Desktop to the new hard disk.

[ssp3]

Well what do you know... it boots on the original 6500 but not on the G4.

I thought you were going to boot the original machine, not some other, especially G4. Try to update the OS. 9.1->9.2->9.2.2

And somehow he did not copied the stuff on the Desktop to the new hard disk.

It is always that way. You have to put everything, that's on the Desktop into a separate folder and then move that folder to the main drive before copying. Just don't call that folder Desktop or Schreibtisch , that name is reserved by the System, IIRC.