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Author Topic: Help using MachTen  (Read 845 times)

Mat

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Help using MachTen
« on: June 12, 2024, 06:43:57 PM »

OK, I tried to get Crypto Ancienne under Power MachTen running like described by Cameron Kaiser http://www.floodgap.com/software/classilla/carl.html

And I failed, …

Can please somebody guide me to get TLS 1.3 back with Classilla!

I was able to install MachTen 4.1.4. Afterwards I could unpack cryanc and I have this folder with carl accessable from MachTens console (as root). But when I type  "./micro_inetd 8765 ./carl -p" from within the cryanic folder, I get "bind: Invalid argument".

Other problem, when I log in as preconfigured "mtnext" it leads to a white window instead of a X environment. Backspace is not working correctly, when I type backspace the console writes "^H", …

Or how do I for example change the "hostname" as it recently is "NOHOSTNAME" what might be the problem?

I even could not find this "cryanic-folder" or several others from within Mac OS. Where does MachTen save its files??

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Jubadub

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Re: Help using MachTen
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2024, 02:31:25 AM »

Hey @Mat, check out this MacOS9Lives thread to see my own struggle with it. But more importantly, check out this Macintosh Garden thread where I laid down (as "Jatoba") every solution for every step of the way, with screenshots and everything. I can tell that most of the problems you are facing are addressed over there.

The Floodgap tutorial for CA is good, but not complete. Without following the extra steps I laid down in that Garden thread, no one can get it up and running if they follow it down to a T. You need the extra steps.

By the way, I assume you ran the Power MachTen 4.1.4 -> 5.0.5 updater? It's the "Tenon_MacOS_9.1_Update.hqx" file in the Power MachTen Garden page (currently download #10).

MachTen by the way has access to not only the HFS file system from your Mac, but also its own file system (forgot name. UFS? Not the same UFS we hear of elsewhere IIRC). This lives inside image files that AFAIK only MachTen can mount. When you put the Crypto Ancienne compressed file via the Mac as per Floodgap's tutorial, it's naturally still residing on the HFS side of things, but when you unpack/copy it as per instructions, the contents will be inside one of the images mounted by MachTen. For more info on that sort of stuff, you can check around Floodgap some more to find other pages related to MachTen usage and setup in general.

EDIT: For emphasis, don't use OpenDNS. Use something else. Else you WILL have issues, like I did in the Garden thread.

And also, again for emphasis, it's VITAL you use "127.0.0.1" instead of "localhost" for proxy, even though the latter "should" have resolved to the former (but doesn't, and "127.0.0.1" is both appropriate and valid even if it did).

But before we get to these 2 points, there are other parts of the process you have to address. I'm sure you'll be able to solve all the issues.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 02:57:11 AM by Jubadub »
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Mat

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Re: Help using MachTen
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2024, 02:36:13 PM »

OK, success! Thanks a lot Jubadub!

So MachTen is working now. It seem my main problem was that I did not do that MachTen update, so it didn´t work at all. The ""bind: Invalid argument" that also the user in the other thread reported is as Mac OS 9.1 and above simply need this update for MachTen to work correctly.

Afterwards I followed Jubadubs instructions regarding the configuration of the MachTen controlpanel, the Classilla proxy (IP instead of "localehost") and everything worked immediately. Also now I can "boot" into X environment with MachTen if I like.

So, I have now TLS 1.3 running without any other hardware than my Mac OS 9 G4 and it is working quite well! Of course no modern pages like youtube or my onlinebanking, but well enough for day to day usage.

The best thing is, as my mailprovider has Squirrelmail as an alternative webmailer online, mailusage is back now at my Mac OS 9!! Yeah!

I really could have done this before, …

Can somebody help me changing the keyboard layout in MachTen to German, it is extremely frustrating to try to type at a layout I do not know and which means permanentely guessing for everything.

The hostname that I asked for in the initial posting, is changed in the MachTen control panel at Mac OS 9.

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Jubadub

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Re: Help using MachTen
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2024, 02:08:14 AM »

Awesome! :) Really glad to see all our collective effort bearing fruit! And healthy fruit at that!

We might also be able to use Crypto Ancienne via Virtual PC or some other x86 emulator/VM, but the cool thing about Power MachTen is that it doesn't have the CPU emulation overhead, it's all PowerPC instructions, and there's no other emulator/VM program for Mac OS that I know of like that. To beat this, only if CA was a direct Mac OS app, and/or built-in into Classilla and MacLynx.

As a bonus, you can configure Power MachTen's Control Panel to give ALL the processing time to Mac OS rather than MachTen via the slider, and Crypto Ancienne will still work perfectly, at least for a Mac as powerful as the Mac mini G4. This way we bring down the MachTen overhead to a minimum.

If you installed MachTen on an HFS partition you have directly, you can also create a shortcut to it and put it inside "Startup Items" folder to get things up and running as quickly as possible upon booting Mac OS 9. If MachTen was installed inside a disk image (like mine was, since all my partitions were so big, that MachTen's installer miscalculates and lets overflow the drive size value, so it thinks that "there's no space"), then at least you can still mount the image containing it via Startup Items. (Maybe I can move the installed files manually towards one of my real partitions after an install? Or, maybe, that breaks MachTen.)

I have no idea how to switch out the keyboard layout for MachTen, though, sorry. You can try e-mailing Cameron Kaiser himself, I believe most likely he would at least reply.
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V.Yakob

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Re: Help using MachTen
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2024, 05:10:08 AM »

And I decided to try this SSL Proxy, which I ran in MachTen on OS92.2.
However, every time I get "Time Out." Even if I use HTTP Proxy, http pages do not open.
Maybe I chose a weak machine for experiments? -- PM9600 with Sonnet G4 450 Mhz CPU update.

Mat, Jubadub, on which machine/processor did you manage to run it?
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Mat

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Re: Help using MachTen
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2024, 06:34:30 AM »

Mat, Jubadub, on which machine/processor did you manage to run it?
To answer your question, I am using it at my Ti Book G4/1GHz. But I do not think that your machine is too slow. From what I experienced the last days when Classila and MachTen are running at the same time, your machine should be absolute capable for such tasks, without any timeout.

The "timout issue" is adressed quite extensive in Jubadubs threads he linked to in posting Nr. 2. Go carefully through them and follow all final advices, how to configure the MachTen control panel, the Classilla proxy settings, especially the IP instead of "localhost" etc.  I am sure it will work when you follow all steps in the other threads!
For me the googles DNS 8.8.8.8 is working very well. Perhaps try to use another DNS.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2024, 07:10:06 AM by Mat »
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V.Yakob

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Re: Help using MachTen
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2024, 08:33:02 AM »

Thank u, Mat,
I missed the DNS setting in the MachTen control panel.

Now I can open macintoshgarden on OS9, as well as log in to this forum under my account without thinking about the unreliability of http.

I will leave here a brief note on how to set it up so that the next searchers do not have to go through a large number of links.

1. Installing MachTen 4.1.4
2. Installing the update
3. DNS configuration: Control Panel -> MachTen Controls -> Networking. For example, 8.8.8.8;
4. Copy the archive carl-machten-414.tar.gz to the root of the volume on which MachTen is installed;
5. Open MachTen. Log in with the "mtuser" or "root" account and "MachTen" password;
6. If you have a license, enter "chnglicense", enter the key in the window that opens;
7. Execute commands
mkdir ~/carl
cd ~/carl
dfork //carl-machten-414.tar.gz ~/carl/carl-machten-414.tar.gz
gunzip carl-machten-414.tar.gz
tar xvf carl-machten-414.tar
cd cryanc
./micro_inetd 8080 ./carl -p

The carl program has other keys, you can get help on them like this ./carl -h

Run Classilla 9.3.4beta and open the page with the fine-tuning "about:config"
Using the filter, find the parameter "network.http.proxy.use-http-proxy-for-https" and change the value to true.
Open the settings Edit -> Preferences... -> Advanced -> Proxies, set the switch to "Manual proxy configuration", enter 127.0.0.1 and port 8080 in the SSL Proxy field.

Open the https site, for example https://macintoshgarden.org or https://macos9lives.com
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PPC — PM 8100/80, PM 9600/300, PM G3 Minitower (Rev. C), PM G3 B&W (Rev. B), PM G4 Quicksilver (2002), PM G4 MDD (2003), PM G5 (Late 2005).
Intel — Mac mini (mid 2010), iMac 5k (2017), Mac mini (2018).
AppleSilicon — Mac mini (2020), Mac Studio M2 Max + Apple Studio Display.
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