Author Topic: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?  (Read 40577 times)

Offline IIO

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2015, 02:44:11 PM »
OK class… explanation time:

Knezzen knows a G5 cannot boot OS9.
He merely refers to the type of DVI it has.

Now watch:

1) DVI resolution tops out at 1920 x 1200
2) In order to exceed that, there's dual-link DVI. Dual-link means there are TWO independent video streams on ONE connector
3) The 30" Cinema Display likes 2560 x 1600
4) In order to get that much from computer to display, Macs with dual-link DVI cut the picture in half - sending 1280 x 800 down each link
5) That's why if you connect a 30" to a computer with only a single-link DVI, you can only get 1280 x 800 max
6) Could Apple have made the 30" capable of also displaying 1920 x 1200 single-link?
7) Of course (and actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it can), but that would be too easy…and reasonable…and less expensive

8) Because THEN, you'd be able to buy a new computer and NOT have to buy a new monitor also

Any questions?

yeah:

what does all this have to do with the original question, which was what the highest resolution is what mac os 9 can do? :D

and to answer #6)

no they could not IMO. it is upper half/lower half for a reason. this monitor simply does not support this resolution. maybe the sony does? (it was the only one which could do a few more resolutions than 3 or 4)

well, actually, i think ... there would not have been a big market for such a monitor for OS9 users back in the time. (why would you spend 4500 bucks for a monitor which is bigger but cant do a higher resolution than a 23" can do? except maybe when you have problems with your eyes?)

the geforce4 ti x4 AGP supports 2048x1536 easily, but like i said above and we all agree, that is only available when you connect analog. probably it was a too big deal to implement this outdated technology (analog monitor cables) in the first 30" apple display.





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Offline GaryN

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2015, 06:45:52 PM »
Oh jeez…

"what does all this have to do with the original question, which was what the highest resolution is what mac os 9 can do?"

Chris asked the question - the answer was that it depends on the video card mostly; AND

The highest-rez card in a G4 has DVI (and/or ADC) outs - Hence DVI discussion; AND THEN

YOU started down the road where YOU decided that the mere mention to DVI "as in" a G5 had nothing to do with OS9; BUT

The 30" issue was not can it do 1920x1200 but rather could Apple have built it to support both dual-link for max rez AND yet accept the max 1920x1200 from a single-link if they wanted to; AND

The answer is: Of course they could have but they made a marketing decision NOT to; SO

When I said "I wouldn't be surprised if it can" I mean that it certainly has the pixels to do 1920x1200 and therefore it probably could but that it lacks the necessary circuitry to actually do it - again a marketing decision by Apple to "encourage" their users to "appreciate" the benefits of continually spending money upgrading through regular deprecation of all warez both soft and hard - You need look no further than our very own "OS9 Installer for unsupported hardware" to see what I mean. Upgrade encouragement thorough forced deprecation.

ANYWAY…

There would maybe not have been a huge market for a 30" display in the OS9 era (highly debatable) but that's not what I'm talking about here as much as I'm talking about the deprecation of all OSX Apple computers that didn't come with dual-link DVI video cards.

As for "a too big deal to implement this outdated technology", I submit that it is not you but rather the manufacturer who decides when something is "outdated". Do you need me to remind you that EVERY DAMN THING ON THIS SITE is "outdated technology"?

Any MORE questions?

supernova777

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2015, 12:18:20 AM »
1680x1050 is the max i have used.. i was just curious if it was possible to go 1920x1080 or above!

honestly gary i dont know why u are spending so much effort to answer/follow up..
its obvious that some members of this site like to post and blab without thinking
while the rest of us are very carefull that what we say is correct, spending extra effort to doublecheck + Recheck facts so that the posts can serve as a reference..
its a shame that we cant get that level of quality from some people.

Offline GaryN

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2015, 02:47:59 PM »
Yeah I know, but it gives me something to do while I'm waiting for the drugs to kick in…

Offline Philgood

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2015, 01:51:38 AM »
Hi guys. So with the recent changes in my setup i'm missing now the 23" screen I was sharing through an KVM switch between my PC and the MDD Mac. I connected another spare 15" LCD to my Mac but thats just not cutting it...
I found someone offering me some old ADC Apple LCD monitors...15", 17" or 22" in size. For the latter one he's asking a pricey 120€ excluding shipping cost but says it's in a good shape.
Can you recommend such a buy or I have to calm my collector syndrome ?

Ah. he also has newer Apple cinema displays but only 20" in size for 180€ and an 30" for 450€ with wall mount...just to throw in more options for you guys to recommend me something...
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

supernova777

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2015, 03:25:54 AM »
Yeah I know, but it gives me something to do while I'm waiting for the drugs to kick in…

lol was actually kind of amusing now that i read the entire thread lol
amusing + informative.. win win

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2015, 05:51:48 AM »
Hi guys. So with the recent changes in my setup i'm missing now the 23" screen I was sharing through an KVM switch between my PC and the MDD Mac. I connected another spare 15" LCD to my Mac but thats just not cutting it...
I found someone offering me some old ADC Apple LCD monitors...15", 17" or 22" in size. For the latter one he's asking a pricey 120€ excluding shipping cost but says it's in a good shape.
Can you recommend such a buy or I have to calm my collector syndrome ?

Ah. he also has newer Apple cinema displays but only 20" in size for 180€ and an 30" for 450€ with wall mount...just to throw in more options for you guys to recommend me something...

if you go the adc monitor route make sure he knows how to pack that damn thing. I got 2 with broken stand during transit. Other than that i like the two 23's .... its a lot of workspace you may get over the tag after you use it.

Offline Philgood

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2015, 06:15:48 AM »
Ok. Just did some homework.

The 23" Cinema HD is the one to get if you're lucky to find one...

The 22" he is offering me I think is not a wide screen one but the 23" is ?

will read some more...

UPDATE:

I'm wrong on this assumption .
Both models are wide screen (letterbox).
The max. resolution for the 22" is 1600x1024 and 1920x1200 (Full HD) for the 23".
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2015, 08:34:33 AM »
Ok. Just did some homework.

The 23" Cinema HD is the one to get if you're lucky to find one...

The 22" he is offering me I think is not a wide screen one but the 23" is ?

will read some more...

UPDATE:

I'm wrong on this assumption .
Both models are wide screen (letterbox).
The max. resolution for the 22" is 1600x1024 and 1920x1200 (Full HD) for the 23".

make sure your graphics card has the power to run these resolutions. I use a ti for 2 23s and a apple adc/dvi adapter for the second monitor. The 22s will give you more than plenty workspace. Dont forget in os9 everything appears a lot smaller with that kind of resolution.

Offline Philgood

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2015, 10:07:55 AM »
Thanks Devil. It's the stock GC that is in my MDD. The Radeon 9000 Pro.
It's definitely capable of driving two HD resolution displays (1920x1200).
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 10:18:53 AM by Philgood »
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

Offline GaryN

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2015, 04:12:27 PM »
Know this: The 22" 1600 x 1024 is the first - as in oldest of the Cinema Displays. It therefore behooves you to ask about the amount of and what type of use your seller has put it through. These damn things do actually wear out and repair parts, if you can actually find any, will cost more than you spent for the whole display. This is, of course, a good idea no matter which model it is or what era it comes from…

Of course, everybody lies when they're trying to unload their old worn out crap, but you gotta ask, at least.

Just as people will run their TV's with the brightness cranked all the way up because they've got all of the shades up and the sun is blasting into the room, they'll do the same with their monitors, never realizing that this is the cause of their repeated migraines!  On the old Cinemas, this wears out the CFL lamps (there are two in the 20" and 22" and three -I think - in the 23"), and tends to cause early failure of the voltage inverter board that drives them. The first telltale sign of impending death is a purple - magenta-ish tint that develops around the edges of the screen. Especially noticeable when first turned on and the screen is all grey.

I personally have and use both a 23"and a 20" (with the 23" on a KVM) and I've collected two more 20" and another 23" for backups.

It's a whole lot easier to just keep an eye out and pick them up when they come around than to desperately search for one after yours blows up in the middle of a project.

Know this also: If you run two of these on a G4, always run the larger one from the DVI output through a DVI to ADC power brick adapter. The 23" HD especially, puts one hell of an additional strain on your Mac's PSU that can stress it to an early death also. SO, while you're keeping watch for used displays, watch for whole computers too. They're usually cheaper to buy than trying to replace just a PSU also!

Never, never drive these old displays any brighter than absolutely necessary. They'll last much longer that way.

Last tip: The best way to ship these and not break the stand when the original box is gone is to remove the damn stand first! This requires a Torx driver #T-8 which, of course, the seller doesn't have so you get a display in the post with a broken, unrepairable stand.

You prevent this by simply buying the tool and sending it to the seller yourself.

Then they can remove it (three lousy screws) and send the tool back along with the display. You then reattach the stand and and think, "Boy, I'm glad I thought of that!"
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 11:30:12 PM by GaryN »

Offline IIO

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2015, 11:28:30 AM »

Chris asked the question - the answer was that it depends on the video card mostly; AND


you are right, that is the first reason why i should not have answered this rhetoric question at all... (as i block this person i only answered to the topic of the thread and no more so it might be i missed some extra parts of the question.)

Quote
There would maybe not have been a huge market for a 30" display in the OS9 era (highly debatable) but that's not what I'm talking about here as much as I'm talking about the deprecation of all OSX Apple computers that didn't come with dual-link DVI video cards.

...because if you do, the thread usually ends up with theories about dual dvi and marketing decisions.

the maximum resolution you can use with an OS is the maximum resolution of the video cards the OS supports. finito.

and it would not be higher if you could connect a 30" with dual DVI because you cant.

Quote
Any MORE questions?

tons of.

for example why cant i connect a 5k monitor to my G4?
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Offline GaryN

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2015, 02:46:17 PM »
for example why cant i connect a 5k monitor to my G4?

Of course you can! Just plug it in. If it doesn't seem to fit, don't worry - just push harder.

Offline Jakl

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2015, 03:52:37 AM »
But if it don't fit don't force it just relax.... and let it gooo...:-)

Offline IIO

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2015, 05:44:48 PM »
of course i would be quite a fun thing to run old apps which dont support scaling on a 5k monitor ... you´d need a micorscope to see things, but you´d have a gazillion of pixels for displaying 100 plug-ins at a time ... more than 8 times of a 1920x1200 :)
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supernova777

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2015, 01:06:16 AM »
thanks for your wisdom once again   ::)  ::)  ::)

Offline Philgood

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2015, 03:43:29 AM »
Thanks so much GaryN for this valuable information (should be a sticky buying guide)

Know this: The 22" 1600 x 1024 is the first - as in oldest of the Cinema Displays. It therefore behooves you to ask about the amount of and what type of use your seller has put it through. These damn things do actually wear out and repair parts, if you can actually find any, will cost more than you spent for the whole display. This is, of course, a good idea no matter which model it is or what era it comes from…

Actually their are 2 versions of the 22" model...the first from around 1999 http://www.everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/apple_cinema_display.html is with DVI connection and the later model with ADC connection which appeared one year later http://www.everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/apple_cinema_display_adc.html.

Quote
...On the old Cinemas, this wears out the CFL lamps (there are two in the 20" and 22" and three -I think - in the 23"), and tends to cause early failure of the voltage inverter board that drives them. The first telltale sign of impending death is a purple - magenta-ish tint that develops around the edges of the screen. Especially noticeable when first turned on and the screen is all grey.

That information frightened me to such a degree that i stepped back from my plans to buy such a thing...it seems not worth it when you can buy for 120€ a 22" or 23" normal VGA monitor and connect it through adaptors...

Quote
Know this also: If you run two of these on a G4, always run the larger one from the DVI output through a DVI to ADC power brick adapter. The 23" HD especially, puts one hell of an additional strain on your Mac's PSU that can stress it to an early death also. SO, while you're keeping watch for used displays, watch for whole computers too. They're usually cheaper to buy than trying to replace just a PSU also!

That seems logical...this is definitely something to look for when searching such a monitor...i saw it on pictures from e-vil-auctions.

Quote
Last tip: The best way to ship these and not break the stand when the original box is gone is to remove the damn stand first! This requires a Torx driver #T-8 which, of course, the seller doesn't have so you get a display in the post with a broken, unrepairable stand.

You prevent this by simply buying the tool and sending it to the seller yourself.

Then they can remove it (three lousy screws) and send the tool back along with the display. You then reattach the stand and and think, "Boy, I'm glad I thought of that!"

Awesome tip!

Thanks again GaryN!
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

Offline IIO

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2015, 04:22:33 AM »
That information frightened me to such a degree that i stepped back from my plans to buy such a thing...it seems not worth it when you can buy for 120€ a 22" or 23" normal VGA monitor and connect it through adaptors...

you will get used to that quickly. i was always using my flatpanels via analog cables and i´ve stopped seeing darkened spots after 3 days - including working in photoshop or jitter.

all still much, much better compared to what tubes did to our eyes.
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Offline davorin

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2016, 09:34:35 AM »
Evnin' (o;

Well you can use a VGA monitor hooked up via ADC/VGA adapter and go to 2048x1536..then it looks like the attched screenshot, though picture isn't that sharp anymore (o;


Offline IIO

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Re: maximum viewable resolution for mac os 9?
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2016, 07:04:00 PM »
looks hübsch.

the perfect monitor if you have a cat. :)
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