Mac OS 9 Lives
Digital Audio Workstation & MIDI => Digital Audio Workstations & MIDI Applications => Topic started by: ght4361 on September 04, 2020, 07:39:51 AM
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Greetings. I have been looking for information about Digidesign's Sound Designer II but I can't seem to find a lot on the Internet. Is there a manual available somewhere? Does anyone have a working system that could perhaps offer any insight?
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Greetings. I have been looking for information about Digidesign's Sound Designer II but I can't seem to find a lot on the Internet. Is there a manual available somewhere? Does anyone have a working system that could perhaps offer any insight?
Did you ask Siri? No?
OK, except a few Read Me's and manual supplements, SDII manual was only available in printed form. At first as a binder, later as a book. I think I had three different editions over the years.
As to the working system and insight - I haven't fired up my SDII system for at least 5-6 years and probably have forgotten many things, but can you at least formulate your question?
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I made contacts with the FBI, NASA and the CIA, none could solve the search, but SIRI told me to look at these available links.
thanks SIRI you are the best !!
-afro- :o 8)
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sound-designer-ii-283 (http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sound-designer-ii-283)
http://archive.digidesign.com/download/legacy/sd2/ (http://archive.digidesign.com/download/legacy/sd2/)
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Greetings. I have been looking for information about Digidesign's Sound Designer II but I can't seem to find a lot on the Internet. Is there a manual available somewhere? Does anyone have a working system that could perhaps offer any insight?
Did you ask Siri? No?
OK, except a few Read Me's and manual supplements, SDII manual was only available in printed form. At first as a binder, later as a book. I think I had three different editions over the years.
As to the working system and insight - I haven't fired up my SDII system for at least 5-6 years and probably have forgotten many things, but can you at least formulate your question?
Well, I found a few older topics on the Avid DUC forum where they were discussing how practical the software was, especially when it came to crossfade live recorded music or creating seamless loops.
This is primarily what I would like to know. How flexible are the editing tools? Can you adjust the crossfades in detail? Does it support more than one files open at once, copying and pasting back and forth? Can you mix-paste a segment to another sound file like in Soundforge or Bias Peak (meaning, without moving the rest of the waveform further to the right)?
I'm looking to set up a dedicated audio editor and since I am also interested in classic Mac software, I thought maybe this would be a good choice. We normally use a Mac Pro with Pro Tools HD in the studio.
I made contacts with the FBI, NASA and the CIA, none could solve the search, but SIRI told me to look at these available links.
thanks SIRI you are the best !!
-afro- :o 8)
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sound-designer-ii-283 (http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sound-designer-ii-283)
http://archive.digidesign.com/download/legacy/sd2/ (http://archive.digidesign.com/download/legacy/sd2/)
I checked both of these before. Macintosh Garden does contain the software but wouldn't you need dedicated hardware to be able to run it?
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.. but wouldn't you need dedicated hardware to be able to run it?
Before answering all your questions, consider this.
1. To make SDII work, you will need Audiomedia III card. Do you have it?
2. To make Audiomedia III card work in post-beige Macs you will need a card with PCI Matchmaker chip Rev.QC or later.
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=1671180&postcount=2
3. SDII is not officially qualified for OS9. (It does not run correctly (no record) in my Digital Audio G4/9.2.2. The AMIII card itself works fine with other software that I use.)
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/faq/sd2.html
Still wanna go down that route?
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I have a Powermac G4 MDD 1.25 ghz. I know that you need an Audiomedia III card (or Audiomedia II for that matter) to run SDII, but can't it also be used with the Pro Tools DSP cards of that era? The Digidesign archive page mentions that in can be used with Pro Tools III PCI too. I assume that SDII came as a supplementary editor to PT.
In addition, I know that it is not supported officially in OS 9 but there is mention in this thread http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=278606 (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=278606) of a working configuration with an AMIII on a G4. Of course, I don't know what "working" means in this case. You mentioned it cannot record, right?
I don't mind spending some time to configure a system but given the lack of a demo, I'm trying to gather as much info as possible to find out if this would be ideal for my workflow, hence the questions about usability.
This is only a personal project. I don't depend on it to do regular, paying work.
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AM III works great with PT 4 (DAE) and Cubase VST 4 (ASIO) - and with soundmanager, too - but i am not sure about MacOS9 and G4 processors? i wouldnt dare to try. it´s system 7 stuff.
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I have a Powermac G4 MDD 1.25 ghz.
... can't it also be used with the Pro Tools DSP cards of that era? The Digidesign archive page mentions that in can be used with Pro Tools III PCI too.
Yes, it can, but that's another, even bigger can of worms. Requirement of Rev.QC PCI Matchmaker chips on all cards still apply and, they are scarce.
In addition, I know that it is not supported officially in OS 9 but there is mention in this thread http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=278606 (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=278606) of a working configuration with an AMIII on a G4. Of course, I don't know what "working" means in this case. You mentioned it cannot record, right?
DAE/DSI 5.1.1 ... That's interesting. I never used anything past 3.4.2. Next time I power up that particular machine, I'll try the newer ones out. And yes, I could not record (there was no file produced).
I'm trying to gather as much info as possible to find out if this would be ideal for my workflow...
Here's the link to manual of Atari version of SDII. All functions are the same as far as I can see.
http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-st-sound-tools_s17566.html
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I will take a good look at the manual and see if I can get a better overview of the software. Thanks for the input so far. :)
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.. but wouldn't you need dedicated hardware to be able to run it?
Before answering all your questions, consider this.
1. To make SDII work, you will need Audiomedia III card. Do you have it?
2. To make Audiomedia III card work in post-beige Macs you will need a card with PCI Matchmaker chip Rev.QC or later.
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=1671180&postcount=2
3. SDII is not officially qualified for OS9. (It does not run correctly (no record) in my Digital Audio G4/9.2.2. The AMIII card itself works fine with other software that I use.)
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/faq/sd2.html
Still wanna go down that route?
Sound Designer II ™ + 2.8.3 works with hardware digidesign, which has audiomedia III for example digi001 that has this interface.
digi001 has drivers for os8 and os9. Sound Designer II ™ + 2.8.3 works with os7 os8 onwards, it was never tested on os9, but those who have a digi001 for os8 will be able to use it.
http://archive.digidesign.com/download/sndrvr/
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Why are you posting this nonsense and confusing people?
Sigh..
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Sound Designer works with Pro Tools 3, Audiomedia 2, Audiomedia 3 - no plugins.
Everything else is fantasy.
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Alright. I finished checking the manual but there are a few things I don't get.
1. Perhaps I have overlooked this, but I don't understand if the various processes are performed in real-time or if they function more like Audacity (set up the parameters, render the clip and if you don't like it, undo, change the parameters, render again etc). The discussion here has led me to believe that they are real-time: https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=218838 (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=218838) .
2. From what I see, the maximum audio resolution is 16-bit, 48khz with the Audiomedia III. Could the Pro tools III provide 24-bit, 48khz through its own converters or is the bit depth limited by Sound designer itself?
3. There is no mention of DSP plugins in the manual. Maybe they weren't compatible with the Atari version. I've read that the Waves suite was available.
Sound Designer works with Pro Tools 3, Audiomedia 2, Audiomedia 3 - no plugins.
Everything else is fantasy.
Supposedly it did support plugins according to this thread: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=331578 (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=331578) . But I really don't know the details. That's what I've been trying to figure out.
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Crossfades and individual region's gain adjustments are in real time (in playlist window).
Normalize, change gain, EQ(?) etc. are all rendered "offline".
Plug-ins are not supported on PCI hardware, only on NuBus.
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/faq/sd2.html
Audiomedia III is full 24 bits on digital in/out. Analog part is 18bit in/out, limited by the A/D and D/A chips used. If recording to 24 bit file, remaining bits are filled with zeros.
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/propix/AM3.html
Sound Designer is 24 bits, if set up that way.
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2. From what I see, the maximum audio resolution is 16-bit, 48khz with the Audiomedia III. Could the Pro tools III provide 24-bit, 48khz through its own converters or is the bit depth limited by Sound designer itself?
when SDII app came out that was before OS 8 - and some 7 or so years before PT had 24 bit file support.
so even if it would work to work with 24 bit files, what is it good for to have an editor on an operating system where there is no multitrackrecorder and no dac with 24 bit? and which was targeted towards 8- 12- and 16-bit samplers and allows rates down to 8khz.
not to speak of the RAM and storage options in these days.
Supposedly it did support plugins according to this thread
yeah, but not on AMIII. probably a pure marketing decision. my card came bundled with PT and they wanted you to use that.... and well, most if not all SD plug-ins are also available for AS (not sure about JVP), so could just use PT as your editor app.
as for your "looping" request, you can use infinity for that in a 16 bit world. it is from the same man anway. :)
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from the 282 readme:
"The application Patch SDII 2.82 is designed to operate on installed versions of Sound Designer II 2.82 and 2.82. Other versions of Sound Designer II are not patched.
Be sure that you have launched your installed Sound Designer II Version 2.82 application at least once.
The updater identifies the files for update by searching on the selected drive. If you have renamed the files, there is a possibility that some files will not be updated. In the event that you suspect an incomplete update, try re-installing from your original master disks (for v2.8 or v2.81), and then repeat the update.
Mt. Digi was not automatically installed by the v2.8 and v2.81 installers for Sound Designer II. If you want an updated copy of Mt. Digi™, be sure that you have a copy (v1.0 or v1.1) in your control panels folder. To install it, drag it off of your Sound Designer II “Install 1” disk into your Control Panels folder.
The application “Update to SDII 2.82” is designed to update installed versions of Sound Designer II (SDII) 2.8 or 2.81 to SDII Version 2.82. Different authorization keys were used for SDII 2.8 and for SDII 2.81. As a result, this updater will convert SDII 2.8 to a version of SDII 2.82 that uses the appropriate authorization key for SDII 2.8. Likewise, the updater will convert SDII 2.81 into a version of SDII 2.82 that uses the correct key for SDII 2.81."
LOL WHAT?
"For users with both 2.8 and 2.81 versions:
The patch only repairs Sound Designer II Version 2.82 and 2.82 of the English applications and not the Japanese versions. If you currently have Sound Designer II Version 2.8 or 2.81, you must first use the posted Updater".
うまく !
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Actually, the ever changing, half-baked, authorization keys losing Pace was the real reason for this clusterfcuk.
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Crossfades and individual region's gain adjustments are in real time (in playlist window).
Normalize, change gain, EQ(?) etc. are all rendered "offline".
Plug-ins are not supported on PCI hardware, only on NuBus.
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/faq/sd2.html
Audiomedia III is full 24 bits on digital in/out. Analog part is 18bit in/out, limited by the A/D and D/A chips used. If recording to 24 bit file, remaining bits are filled with zeros.
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/propix/AM3.html
Sound Designer is 24 bits, if set up that way.
So, the only way to run plugins inside SDII would be with the Audiomedia II Nubus card and only with offline processing. That way you had to "guess" how it would sound like. I presume it's the same for the mix function.
I have also found this old article from 1989 about Sound Tools: http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/digidesign-sound-tools/5626 . What was the relation of this software to Sound Designer II? The arcticle mentions it is like an extension to SDII. A preview function appears to be present in it, so I assumed that preview would also be available in the latter.
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i am afraid there were no realtime plug-in in those days.
soundtools? is just a combination with a hardware.
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Got it. I notice that sometimes these names are used interchangeably so there is some confusion.
Based on the descriptions, I thought that Sound Designer II was a "predecessor" to Bias Peak, but that program seems to be quite a bit more advanced even in its earlier versions. Maybe I'm asking too much from such an old software.
But then again, how did they do sound design back then? Given the lack of automation or any other envelope tool, I suppose you would use only crossfades to change smoothly from one sound to the next or very fast fade ins/outs for an "impact" sound effect for example.
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maybe they didnt do it? because before you have the need to do sounddesign to digital audio you first need to have digital audio. :)
the soundtools package was one of the first 4-channel recording tools of all times and it was originally meant to be an editor for the emu samplers.
which later alchemy did much better (and it even supported the soundtools interface)
in 1990 most of us did "sounddesign" using outboard gear and casette tapes.
and of course you can do crossfades with an analog mixer, too, just not as exact as with a digital ramp.
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But then again, how did they do sound design back then? Given the lack of automation or any other envelope tool..
That's a typical mistake the newcomers to the OS7-9 world make - they're approaching the 25+ years old software with today's thinking. What envelope? You chop up your sounds in SDII, transfer them back to hardware sampler and do your ADSR there. Maybe in Sample Cell too, but I haven't used that thing.
SDII started as sample editor for samplers of that era, but quickly evolved into 2 track editor and finished CD assembly app. Especially when it became able to handle a 24 bit files. Back then it was a "low cost" alternative to the full blown Sonic Solutions system.
There are thousands of CD titles out there that were made with SDII, especially in classical music world. Radio programming is another area where SDII got used a lot.
Record your material, drop markers on the fly, play it back, use very well implemented scrub tool, find your edit points, adjust markers, define your regions. Then create a new playlist, drop in your regions, adjust fades and region gain - DONE! Quick and efficient. Try that with Peak ..
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=9994
P.S. I have a suspicion that SDII is not a right tool for you. You'll be better off with Peak 2.5.x if using OS9, or stay in OSX and choose whatever modern tool you want.
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Yes, I should have thought about this better.
Still, I would like to try setting up a system and using it for experimentation. That means that I would have to find an Audiomedia II card, the compatible plugins to add the various DSP functions and a Nubus Macintosh to put it all together.
I understand this is going to take some time. Finding a suitable Macintosh would be the first step.
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Turbosynth can apply arbitrarily complex envelopes to audio files.
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Turbosynth can apply arbitrarily complex envelopes to audio files.
Right, and anything like metasynth 2.6 does just as much as that and generates audio from wavetable synthesis, not to mention that anything you draw with the brush can do wonderful things for your modern elektron sampler. without using any plugin, although its internal algorithms are unique and generous for designing layered sounds with wav audio format. -afro-
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i3 DSP Quatro 1.5 for mac os9 is another great editing beast for pre-built samples.
I have the Quattro DSP for osX panther with real-time resampling for virtual vst instruments and it's comfortable to design things with it.
Does anyone have the i3 DSP Quattro 1.2 for mac os9? :o
http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=s545200895
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Stefano still authorizes OS 9 licenses and offers a download if you purchase the new version of DSP Quattro or have an existing license. -afro-
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Stefano still authorizes OS 9 licenses and offers a download if you purchase the new version of DSP Quattro or have an existing license. -afro-
Thanks for reporting, I appreciate your comment.
I see absurd in my case to pay so much money for an updated version for a modern MAC that I will never have.
my only MAC is a G4 MDD with 1.25 CPU for Panther and oS9.2, for podcast and music production.
I have a reduced version of i3 DSP Quattro 1.5 that comes with a CD room of an old edition of computer music that was distributed free with the monthly magazine at the beginning of this century, it is fully functional with this I sample my virtual instruments, and do great things, but I don't have anything like it for mac os9.2.
Was there a fully functional demo version of i3 DSP quattro for mac os9?
Greetings
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>Does anyone have the i3 DSP Quattro 1.2 for mac os9?
I found the attached. It is untested by me.
If it is the wrong file, or does not work, please advise me, and I will remove.
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>Does anyone have the i3 DSP Quattro 1.2 for mac os9?
I found the attached. It is untested by me.
If it is the wrong file, or does not work, please advise me, and I will remove.
Yes, this is it, but I don't know how to activate it in its full version
Thanks for such a great contribution, this is not forgotten, it is a great tool, I have been behind it for years.
a thousand thanks to you ¨macarone¨. -afro- ;D
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I have been very busy the past week and couldn't find time to post.
The original Sound Tools package ran on a Macintosh IIfx, based on the Sound on Sound article I posted above. The lastest and most powerful Macintosh with Nubus slots is the 7100/80. Considering that Audiomedia II is needed to use plugins, the choices are limited between the models released in this timeframe.
Except for cost, is there any reason not to get the fastest system possible? What would be the most sensible setup to get Sound Designer II up and running?
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if i would have to guess i would think that the later systems are cheaper to get.
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The big difference there is that the PowerMac is, well, a PowerMac. So make sure the software is available as a fat binary, if it's only for 68k a fast Quadra might be faster.
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I have found various reports (including this thread) that SDII runs up to OS 9, albeit not officially. I think that a version of System 7 would be the ideal choice for Audiomedia II.
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A small update to the thread.
After searching a bit on Ebay, I found that the early PowerPc Macs are indeed cheaper to get than the later 68k based ones.
So, regarding plugins. Any information about what was compatible with SDII?
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A handful of early Waves, some from Digi, DUY, JVP, SST and a few others whose names I don't remember. About 15 +/- in total. Those plugins were in specific SDII format. As soon as Digi switched to PCI hardware, developers stopped developing for it, so choices are limited.
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I've got compressors and gates, but are there any time/pitch effects? A nice chorus or filtered delay, perhaps? Maybe a reverb?
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i have duy, antares, digi declicker, em 1 , hum removal, power transformer, waves, qxpander, voice pro, and the paris adapter and "build overview".
the latter one shows very well what is the difference between audio editing in 1990 and 2000 - today. :)
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A handful of early Waves, some from Digi, DUY, JVP, SST and a few others whose names I don't remember. About 15 +/- in total. Those plugins were in specific SDII format. As soon as Digi switched to PCI hardware, developers stopped developing for it, so choices are limited.
i have duy, antares, digi declicker, em 1 , hum removal, power transformer, waves, qxpander, voice pro, and the paris adapter and "build overview".
the latter one shows very well what is the difference between audio editing in 1990 and 2000 - today. :)
I assume all of these came on floppy disks. Is there any away to find them now? Except for a few mentions, there doesn't seem to be much information online.
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I wish I could have SDII on my Mix rigs but I don’t think it’s possible. SDII requires either the AM card or some PTII/Project hardware. I successfully had it working on a 9600 with a Project card at one time, and it was the Project card alone with an 888/24. As far as I know the Mix cards don’t play well when mixing them with older Project and Disk I/O cards.
I guess the best I can do is use PT for editing. Would be very convenient to have it working on a Mix rig though, a simple 2trk editor instead of a full blown DAW.
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If you're on later systems I think there are plenty of DAE/TDM compatible two-track editors. BIAS Peak comes to mind.
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I tried Peak and... I don’t know, I didn’t mesh with it well. I guess I need to try it again. Hmm speaking of that, does anyone know if SDII lets you blend samples? It’s a 2trk editor, yes, but maybe sample blending is possible somehow.
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I assume all of these came on floppy disks. Is there any away to find them now? Except for a few mentions, there doesn't seem to be much information online.
we could upload working versions, but the number of active new users for 1990 stuff is below 20 i think.
actually i hardly know anyone who was using sounddesigner or premiere audio plug-ins after VST and TDM came out.
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I'm currently working with a SampleCell + Audiomedia II based setup in a Quadra 700.
I do use Sound Designer for for some operations, but I have to say I'm not really a big fan of its interface. D-Sound Pro 3.5.1 works better for editing (trimming etc. - it also has DC removal), but it doesn't have the plug-ins. The plug-ins I have for SDII aren't extremely interesting, though, but I don't have any plug-ins at all in Pro Tools 3.4, so I keep it around if I ever need a compressor or gate.
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i guess if you are looking to buy a legit license for an audiosuite compressor today you will be left with mcdsp, everything else is expired.
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Hmm speaking of that, does anyone know if SDII lets you blend samples? It’s a 2trk editor, yes, but maybe sample blending is possible somehow.
According to the manual that ssp3 linked above, it appears that it can mix up to four soundfiles each with its own volume fader, although I am not sure if you can preview the result before rendering the new file.
http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-st-sound-tools_s17566.html (http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-st-sound-tools_s17566.html)
Any other information about SDII plugins is welcome.
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you know there should be a google sheets of all early plugins and whats the hardware requirement to play with them
i would love to play with some jupiter systems especially because its the worlds first multiband..
this would give everyone a nice overview of history
and why certain things will remain history
or best case incite people to find ways to port them back..
from a programmers perspective reversing old code to work in 64bit this would be a level 1-100 playlist
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you know there should be a google sheets of all early plugins and whats the hardware requirement to play with them
i will reactivate vst-mac.info some day, limit it to OS9, add all other plug-in types, and add some MacOS9Lives-originated information about QS and MDD hardware.
from a programmers perspective reversing old code to work in 64bit this would be a level 1-100 playlist
i honestly dont think that there is something which doesnt exist today (in the sense of replacing it with something even better) except maybe neuronauts voice remover from sonicworx, infinity, the pluggo runtime and MacOS9 itself.
the well acclaimed MCDSP compressor for example was quite interesting 1997, but today there are literally 100+ better freeware compressors and 5 of them also run as AAX.
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why limit it. make it up until os9 because the compatibilities are interwoven.
TDM Nubus, TDM PCI, VST, RTAS, AS
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its ok if you think so i know people who make grammies with os9 exclusive software.
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I assume all of these came on floppy disks. Is there any away to find them now? Except for a few mentions, there doesn't seem to be much information online.
we could upload working versions, but the number of active new users for 1990 stuff is below 20 i think.
actually i hardly know anyone who was using sounddesigner or premiere audio plug-ins after VST and TDM came out.
please upload all sdii plugins you got mate
including the flux images of the floppies with greaseweazle
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its ok if you think so i know people who make grammies with os9 exclusive software.
yes, and thousands who dont.
you have to provide object- and scene-based immersive audio formats to hollywood today and OS9 machines are not even fast enough for that kind of stuff, not to speak of available software options.
for sounddesigner you have to downgrade to a 400MHz machine and the realtime audio is almost gone. :)
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you can still print objects to SDII
i mean lets first make a total list of SDII only plugins then discuss how economical the process might be
Jupiter Systems (later Antares) - MDT Multiband Dynamics Tool (Dynamics Processing Plug-In)
Jupiter Systems (later Antares) - JVP Jupiter Voice Processor
Jupiter Systems (later Antares) - SST Spectral Shaping Tool
APB Tools - EM-1 v1.11
Waves (Waveshell 1.1) - Q1 C1 S1 L1 PAZ DLR IDR REQ 2.5 RComp 2.3
Qsound - QXpander
Digidesign, Inc. - DINR Digidesign Intelligent Noise Reduction
Crystal River Engineering, Inc. - Protron AudioReality Plug-In v1.0 (1995)
Group Normalize Drag In ?
Hum Removal?
Power Transformer?
Sample Rates?
VoicePro 2.3, 2.46
anybody can say if those were exclusive to SDII? anything to add? ScreenShots?
no - plugin - will - be - forgotten
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i´ve made a screenshot of my archives long ago after your PM but i have yet to copy the files off the CDs.
as far i would answer this question there is nothing for SDII which would not also exist for later platforms.
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power transformer
voicepro
i cant even find any reference to anywhere
proton i was able to find the manual and the auth disk. i will flux it soon as i get the gw
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(posting from macos9 now because there is the screenshot)
right there is nowhere a list to find - and there wasnt one in 1999 when i started with this kind of thing.
it is basically those you mentioned, plus DUY, then there is a bridge for ensoniq paris, and deep in my memory there is a rumor about one more thing which i dont have and which i am not able to name.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5651.0;attach=10663)
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to me thats the most interesting list ive read in ages and to have those would mean a ton to me honestly
it appears the protron ive bought is a tdm only version and there is a separate one for sdii
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as you can see, proton is not in my collection and since i never had an own SD system i can not even tell you it if exists.
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well at least my copy only mentions tdm. there must be a separate sdii version. cant wait for you to up that cd.
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(posting from macos9 now because there is the screenshot)
right there is nowhere a list to find - and there wasnt one in 1999 when i started with this kind of thing.
it is basically those you mentioned, plus DUY, then there is a bridge for ensoniq paris, and deep in my memory there is a rumor about one more thing which i dont have and which i am not able to name.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5651.0;attach=10663)
please s h a r e :)
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(posting from macos9 now because there is the screenshot)
right there is nowhere a list to find - and there wasnt one in 1999 when i started with this kind of thing.
it is basically those you mentioned, plus DUY, then there is a bridge for ensoniq paris, and deep in my memory there is a rumor about one more thing which i dont have and which i am not able to name.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5651.0;attach=10663)
Looks very impressive!
Is there a possibility to get it?
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i am begging for ages to no avail, just got myself a quadra 700 to turn into a sound designer rig just for SDII in anticipation
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i´ve made a screenshot of my archives long ago after your PM but i have yet to copy the files off the CDs.
as far i would answer this question there is nothing for SDII which would not also exist for later platforms.
please do
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Speaking of SDII/Samplecell, anyone heard of InVision before? they had a samplecell exclusive version of the Lightware Stratus library, along with a wholly original disc called Command Central.
https://web.archive.org/web/19961101224723/http://www.cybersound.com/docs/catalog.html
https://web.archive.org/web/19961101225254/http://www.cybersound.com/catalogue/command1.html
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Speaking of SDII/Samplecell, anyone heard of InVision before? they had a samplecell exclusive version of the Lightware Stratus library, along with a wholly original disc called Command Central.
https://web.archive.org/web/19961101224723/http://www.cybersound.com/docs/catalog.html
https://web.archive.org/web/19961101225254/http://www.cybersound.com/catalogue/command1.html
Yesterday i stumbled across them in an article about BIAS Peak 2.5.
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Interesting... Let's home someday we can see some of these rare treasures preserved!
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(posting from macos9 now because there is the screenshot)
right there is nowhere a list to find - and there wasnt one in 1999 when i started with this kind of thing.
it is basically those you mentioned, plus DUY, then there is a bridge for ensoniq paris, and deep in my memory there is a rumor about one more thing which i dont have and which i am not able to name.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5651.0;attach=10663)
Can you please share your collection of plugins?
This is truly a unique collection.
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There is nothing for SDII which would not also exist for later platforms.
VST, TDM, RTAS or AS?
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such a pity IIO never posted that SDII plugins he teased
they are one of a kind and shared nowhere
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Speaking of SDII/Samplecell, anyone heard of InVision before? they had a samplecell exclusive version of the Lightware Stratus library, along with a wholly original disc called Command Central.
https://web.archive.org/web/19961101224723/http://www.cybersound.com/docs/catalog.html
https://web.archive.org/web/19961101225254/http://www.cybersound.com/catalogue/command1.html
Invision made sample cds called 'lightware' for Akai and EMU (i have some original Akai cds) they were purchased by northstar who amalgamated those samples into their 'phase' libraries and such. Northstar still have a website up.
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Invision made sample cds called 'lightware' for Akai and EMU (i have some original Akai cds) they were purchased by northstar who amalgamated those samples into their 'phase' libraries and such. Northstar still have a website up.
[/quote]
Yeah I know. Do you happen to have any Samplecell discs also?
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(posting from macos9 now because there is the screenshot)
right there is nowhere a list to find - and there wasnt one in 1999 when i started with this kind of thing.
it is basically those you mentioned, plus DUY, then there is a bridge for ensoniq paris, and deep in my memory there is a rumor about one more thing which i dont have and which i am not able to name.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5651.0;attach=10663)
Can you please share your collection of plugins?
This is truly a unique collection.
i guess hes keeping it to himself
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Can you please share your collection of plugins?
This is truly a unique collection.
i guess hes keeping it to himself
You guys should really work on your internet search skills. ;) Instead of begging for goodies in every second thread (or so), head to garden and search for "PPC_AUDIO_software_OS7_-_OSX.5.8_some_68K_apps". It is a 4GB Toast image that someone pulled from demonoid and put up there. It looks like HL server backup to me and is full of stuff many of us here have or had back then. There you'll find your SDII plugs, Cubase XT+patches and whatnot for your retro computing needs. The archive needs sorting, there are duplicates etc., so this should keep you occupied for at least a week. :D
Cheers!
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im in the process of sorting this and other packs locally for a sorted reupload, this is a major undertaking since i try to include older than os9 versions as well for "maybe we can get them working somehow nevertheless step 2 and 3 purposes"
there are SDII plugins IIO mentioned that are not in that list
there are early versions of SDII that feature enhanced hardware support that was later dropped ... its a interesting big topic that cannot be wiped aside with a simple "you guys are lazy lookatdatallthere"
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Can you please share your collection of plugins?
This is truly a unique collection.
i guess hes keeping it to himself
You guys should really work on your internet search skills. ;) Instead of begging for goodies in every second thread (or so), head to garden and search for "PPC_AUDIO_software_OS7_-_OSX.5.8_some_68K_apps". It is a 4GB Toast image that someone pulled from demonoid and put up there. It looks like HL server backup to me and is full of stuff many of us here have or had back then. There you'll find your SDII plugs, Cubase XT+patches and whatnot for your retro computing needs. The archive needs sorting, there are duplicates etc., so this should keep you occupied for at least a week. :D
Cheers!
Turn down the degree of your haughtiness mister, this image does not have the entire "IIO" list of plugins
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There is an astounding lack of information about historic Digidesign setups. I'm in the middle of this right now, trying to find info on cards and interfaces that are unidentifiable and/or have no information on them, and setups that are at best vague.
By the way, in this undertaking, I am looking for copies of original "ProDeck" and "ProEdit" that made up the first ProTools Digidesign package, as described here: https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/digidesign-pro-tools/9294 Any clues? Nevermind, I found PT 1.1 on The Garden.
I am getting a real kick to recreate a four track digital audio setup that cost some $15 000 at the time...
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There is an astounding lack of information about historic Digidesign setups. I'm in the middle of this right now, trying to find info on cards and interfaces that are unidentifiable and/or have no information on them, and setups that are at best vague.
By the way, in this undertaking, I am looking for copies of original "ProDeck" and "ProEdit" that made up the first ProTools Digidesign package, as described here: https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/digidesign-pro-tools/9294 Any clues? Nevermind, I found PT 1.1 on The Garden.
I am getting a real kick to recreate a four track digital audio setup that cost some $15 000 at the time...
join the club man, im trying to applesauce/greaseweasle/kryoflux those old pace protected floppies but here in EU its even harder to come by them. if you get your hand on anything put em on the garden. this will also spark interest in old apple computers because at the time they were the only ones running digidesign stuff.
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if you get your hand on anything put em on the garden. this will also spark interest in old apple computers because at the time they were the only ones running digidesign stuff.
At the time, circa 1996 to 2000, it was an amazing era and the really cool thing about old Mac computers and audio was the variety or setups and pricepoints on hardware and software. I was setting up so many different setups for clients... Expensive PT "hardware tape machines" with hardware DSP, or PT Lite (with native processing) or VST with native processing, or VST hybrid (with UAD-1, Powercore hardware DSP) or MIDI only with Performer or DOS Voyetra... it was only a few years earlier, that many of us that were using using hardware sequencers like a Roland MC500 and then graduated to Voyetra or Performer and tape sync (7 tracks of tape audio, 1 Track FSK) with computers as sequencer (40 plus MIDI tracks), hardware samplers, and outboard mixers... and then evolved to attempting to produce all those results all "within the box" on a mac G3/G4.
The complexities of patch bays, racks of outboard gear, tube replacements, soldering cables were now replaced with the complexities or Master clocks, interfaces, motorized faders, delay timing charts, digital master 2 tracks, HD client backups, etc. Then like a collapsing super nova, the racks dis-appeared as Snow Leopard hit in 2009, as did many mixers, hardware samplers, racks of romplers, racks of effects... it was clear in 2010 that the Mac Pro (or equivalent) could do it all natively and be the virtual tape machine, virtual effects rack, virtual mixer and virtual sampler ALL at the same time.
Now the dust settled, some would rebel the single master computer "Audio GOD" approach, they would clean and re-rack some old samplers/romplers, buy some real synths, re-buy their favorite tube compressor and make their Mac share the glory with some other hardware. Like the past, their is a wide variety of setups, but it is clear that for the majority of young beginning musicians, they would never get to hear the "real" instruments or play with the "real" knobs, the effects of that on their psyche can now be debated :)
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As far as the zenith of legacy DigiDesign, PT 5.1.3 and OS9; both TAD and Knez have shown that is can still exist in the modern world as a real means of production and NOT just a thrilling "experiment"...
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6467
Hell, even guys like "BT" that are widely known, explain their reasons for using some old software that has features that were unique...and not duplicated today
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1611
Fron Knez...
Not really. I ended up switching from Mac OS 9.2.2 on the MDD and my big Pro Tools MIX|24 system to a Mac Pro 2.1 running OSX Mavericks and a Pro Tools HD3 system.
Now we're in the process to switch back to the MDD because it sounded soooo much better than the HD3 system does, and we had more plugs. It was a more distinct sound.
After that has been done I'm hoping that the final switch has been made and we can stay like that for a couple of years.
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theres definately 2 approaches here
- the latest and greatest
- period-correct maxed out systems
in recent years the period correct retro approach has surfaced which means best rig possible in say 1994.
- Quadra 950 with max upgrades
- Digidesign ADAT Digital Interface (1994)
- Audiomedia II (1991)
- Cubase Audio 2.0 (1994)
- Cubase Score 2.0 (1994)
- MasterList CD 1.0 (1994)
- Pro Tools 2.5.1 (Aug 3, 1994)
- Pro Tools II System Accelerator (SysAxe) (Grey Matter Response) (1992)
- Pro Tools III 888 IO Audio Interface (Nov 1994)
- Pro Tools III Disk IO, NuBus
- SampleCell II Nubus (1993)
you get the idea
same approach for say a IIfx or a G4 450 upgraded to 1.8, which i now finally can plug 2 Sonnet Express PCI in that I finally found and are on the way to me :D
its not about whats actually useful any longer its a appreciation of technology, a keeping alive of technology
its basically kids -yes compared to some people who lived through the time and gratefully are still around- instead of repairing classic cars are repairing and maintaining classic computers, its whats happening now.
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It's one thing to collect and save, it's another thing to work on these systems, for me it's a kind of "setting", which has its own limitations that turn into advantages.
For example, I have an 8100 with Audiomedia ii and Lexicon NuVerb, the system works well and I know a huge number of very experienced and elderly sound engineers who have such a configuration on a par with Lexicon 480 or 300, on the other hand I want to get rid of 8100 and work all the same, in one machine (2003 MDD), via the NuBus to PCI chassis
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When I say information is hard to find, it's stuff like this:
I have different Digidesign cards. there's usually no name on them, only "assy Nr". those numbers return nothing when you search them on the internet. And where there is a name , it returns nothing either. Sound Accelerator, Sound Accelerator II, Sound Accelerator II/2, you'll have to work hard to positively identify them. Want info on the "Pro I/O"? good luck!. Every step of the way is arduous research. There's no database of ancient Digi hardware. The cards I especially had trouble with are in this thread http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6650.new;topicseen#new
Having recently installed the 442 interface and "442 card" in my Quadra 700, I realised I had the core of the Original Pro Tools. That made me curious to live what would have been the experience of using that pioneer DAW. This is for kicks: I certainly don't expect to do any bread-and-butter work on this setup, but I want to see what was it like. I see no interest in going for the "last possible version". But I may want to get re-acquainted with SDII, which I used a lot in the past.
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All good all easy,
Explains at least why they are so rare and pricey, people ripped them open plundered them and tossed the rest in the dumpster.
So we learned something today kids.
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The picture from preterhuman is a sound accelerator II. As stated a few posts back, it's written on the card. I have one, it works well in the Quadra with SDII with my Pro I/O card, which I like because of its wery wide range LED meter. And this is just another installment of the lack of official information saga about Digi hardware. I have one for you: can you find any official info about the function and use of the quarter-inch jacks on the Sound Accelerator II and the Audiomedia 1 cards?
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The forum did not crash, I had to "prune" 3 posts. It would be great if among this small community (of like minded people), we can keep it civil.
You guys are the best, so let's reflect that in the posts, a lot of people count on this place for info, not drama :)
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Thanks!
This stuff shouldn't have been here in the first place - it hardly applies to OS9, hence it's way off-topic.
My apologies.
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A little hard to follow the discussion with parts of it missing, but I guess it was about people who take the DACs out of Digidesign 442s and "DAT I/O"s and sell them?
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I have a...Lexicon NuVerb...via the NuBus to PCI chassis
i am so looking for a nuverb, i only have the tdm adapter for one. its my nemesis. i keep missing out on it :D
do you have the second wave you mentioned? talked to bolle, its gonna be impossible to clone them so take good care of it
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I have now my historic Sound Tools (and Pro Tools) setup working, and first thing that strikes me is: THE NOISE!!! The friggin' , godawful mighty noise from the computer, whirring hard disks... I annoyed me at the time, and it is still mighty insupportable.
Can't see how anyone can do serious audio work amidst that racket. If you can afford a machine room, good for you!
I unearthed my last bit of the original Sound Tools setup: the DAT I/O. Heaviest little audio box you can find.
I also found ancient brochures for Sound Tools, Deck and Pro Tools. Finally a printed appearance of the Pro I/O in the Pro Tools brochure.
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I have now my historic Sound Tools (and Pro Tools) setup working, and first thing that strikes me is: THE NOISE!!! The friggin' , godawful mighty noise from the computer, whirring hard disks... I annoyed me at the time, and it is still mighty insupportable.
Can't see how anyone can do serious audio work amidst that racket. If you can afford a machine room, good for you!
I unearthed my last bit of the original Sound Tools setup: the DAT I/O. Heaviest little audio box you can find.
I also found ancient brochures for Sound Tools, Deck and Pro Tools. Finally a printed appearance of the Pro I/O in the Pro Tools brochure.
"machine room" and kvms are the only way.. for scsis, the system hdd can be replaced with something quiet
the funny part is the cool ancient shots with the mac along the mixing spot
if i can come up with anything to trade you for that nuverb let me know, id use it as my main production verb if i ever get my hand at it :D
PTSoft v1.1.5 (1992)
Apple Macintosh IIfx (1991)
Radius Color Display
Apple Macintosh Video Display Card Radius
Pro Tools 442 Core System (442 Audio Card, 442 IO Audio Interface)
Pro Tools 4-track Expansion Kit (1992) x3
Pro Tools System Accelerator (SysAxe) (Grey Matter Response) (1992)
ProStore - Optical 650 MB or 1GB
ProStore - High Capacity Hard Disk Drive (650 MB)
ProStore - 1 Gigabyte Hard Drive
JLCooper CS10 Control Station (w/replaced master level
Kensington Macintosh II Stand and Extension Cables
Sony Trinitron KV-1380R
did i miss something?
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You did miss something: I have no NuVerb...
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I have an 8100 with Audiomedia ii and Lexicon NuVerb
indeed it was late and i mixed you up, so sorry, my bad.
i just stumbled across an ancient google groups posting thats also related to nubus (im getting a 3rd expansion rack donation next week, its full, fingers crossed theres nuverbs in there, i need some luck :D)
>Hi, anyone know if it is possible to run Protools 5 on a Powermac 8100 with a
Nubus Project card and 882 I/O interface?<
In an officially approved Digidesign manner, NO. In a "don't ask ANY
questions of Digidesign because it's unsupported" and in a "they know about it
and are kinda willing to overlook the minor hacking of their DAE/DigiInit which
is technically a violation of your software agreement" way yes, but you
probably need a Newertech G3 card in your 8100 - it's too slow and Sonnet card
are incompatible.
You will have to work out any tech problems yourself and there are problems
with some plug-ins (although I haven't had any problems). The special
DAE/DigiInit combination (so-called "Nubus Care Package") was slightly modified
by a longtime and respected Digi user but it's a "you must _never_ ask Digi for
support" thing. They're overlooking it, you have to buy your V.5 upgrade with
no guarantees, and it's technically hacking their software which is problematic
for a software developer as you might imagine.
BTW Protools v 5.1 will not work; I understand that in that version they
removed all nubus related code, which had to happen at some point.
anyone got those? is it a simple regedit? 8100 with G3 newer upgrade i finally found, will try to hook up expansion chassis in the free nubus middle slot.
The last version of PT software that had nubus code support is Version 5.01, but the DAE And Digi init were not upgraded by Digi, but the "Nubus posse" on DAW MAC had a little "Nubus care kit" with modified DAE/DSI that would enable the V5 software.
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A1: yes
A2: no
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A1: yes
A2: no
too abstract for me, what do you mean?
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That means he's taking NO CHANCES...
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Your prior post contained two questions ("Q1" & "Q2") and those were his answers.
It probably involves code patches to Gestalt / hardware check routines at the very least
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im currently looking through the mailing list that published those nubus patched dae/dsi.. maybe ill find something
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I have a...Lexicon NuVerb...via the NuBus to PCI chassis
i am so looking for a nuverb, i only have the tdm adapter for one. its my nemesis. i keep missing out on it :D
do you have the second wave you mentioned? talked to bolle, its gonna be impossible to clone them so take good care of it
Yes, and you can’t even imagine what efforts it took to get it, I understand all the exclusivity of this device, but everything works.
I want to tell you that NuVerb is worth finding and using.
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I have a...Lexicon NuVerb...via the NuBus to PCI chassis
i am so looking for a nuverb, i only have the tdm adapter for one. its my nemesis. i keep missing out on it :D
do you have the second wave you mentioned? talked to bolle, its gonna be impossible to clone them so take good care of it
Yes, and you can’t even imagine what efforts it took to get it, I understand all the exclusivity of this device, but everything works.
I want to tell you that NuVerb is worth finding and using.
do you use it on a standalone 7100? ive read that its "almost" the only way to get it to work
fingers crossed one is in the next expansion chassis im gonna get, its full, lets hope its not another 6 samplecell ii and a nuverb this time :)
may i ask you how to get it going properly if i come across one?
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I have a...Lexicon NuVerb...via the NuBus to PCI chassis
i am so looking for a nuverb, i only have the tdm adapter for one. its my nemesis. i keep missing out on it :D
do you have the second wave you mentioned? talked to bolle, its gonna be impossible to clone them so take good care of it
Yes, and you can’t even imagine what efforts it took to get it, I understand all the exclusivity of this device, but everything works.
I want to tell you that NuVerb is worth finding and using.
do you use it on a standalone 7100? ive read that its "almost" the only way to get it to work
fingers crossed one is in the next expansion chassis im gonna get, its full, lets hope its not another 6 samplecell ii and a nuverb this time :)
may i ask you how to get it going properly if i come across one?
Any machine with NuBus will do, I use SoftwareFPU, for machines with PowerPC processors, on OS8.6
If we are talking about PCI machines, then we need a Second Wave chassis (with extension for chassis) and also a Software FPU utility, I can upload the extensions for NuVerb themselves here
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ok i sourced and will get 4 nuverbs next week. for free. but it didnt happen until i have them in my hands, as always
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it is totally legit to collect digidesign soundtools cards with original software in sealed boxes, but one issue remains with this kind of stuff: it won´t run in OS9.
while some people here are only interested in the latest version of everything and bringing OS9 to the future (SATA 300 cards, silent fans, mac mini OS, replacement PSUs, knez´s torrent and jabber apps, making collections complete, making a PPC version of simpletext :P :P, latest photoshop and latest PT...) - others look at the PPC and go back to OS7 systems.
which raises the question if there is interest to bring older apps, which dont work there yet, to MacOS9 by modifiying and updating them.
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it is totally legit to collect digidesign soundtools cards with original software in sealed boxes, but one issue remains with this kind of stuff: it won´t run in OS9.
while some people here are only interested in the latest version of everything and bringing OS9 to the future (SATA 300 cards, silent fans, mac mini OS, replacement PSUs, knez´s torrent and jabber apps, making collections complete, making a PPC version of simpletext :P :P, latest photoshop and latest PT...) - others look at the PPC and go back to OS7 systems.
which raises the question if there is interest to bring older apps, which dont work there yet, to MacOS9 by modifiying and updating them.
since bolle told me the second wave nubus to pci xpanses contain unobtanium cant cant be copied (the easiest way - plug it into a g4) we are also hunting for at least g3 firmware of those, its out there, people are slow to dump it (waiting game). for now the only way is upgrading those old nubus rigs with sonnet and newer and try to get it to run os9. there is a modified "Nubus Care Package" that was floating around in '99 which brought a pro tools iii nubus rig to Pro Tools 5.0.1, combined with a sonnet upgrade this means os 9 :D thats what im after atm.
Special Notes for OS 9 users:
Pro Tools 5.0 or higher and DAE/DSI 5.0 or higher are required with Mac OS 9.0 or higher.
The Digidesign Control Panel requires OS 9.0 or higher
When using Digidesign Control Panel, turn off Platinum Sounds in the Appearance Control Panel
Firmware v1.1 required for Blue & White G3 computers running OS 9.0 or higher. Available from Apple at: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n58374
so the goal is hacking (or better finding the "NuBus Care Package") the DAE/DSI v3.4.2 to run PT5.0.1 off a PTIII nubus rig then run it on... Pro Tools 5.0.1 and Pro Tools FREE will only work with Mac OS v8.6 & v9.x
http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/os9/sw/macos501.html (http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/os9/sw/macos501.html)
it is common knowledge that digidesign did not test half the combinations that were possible and wanted people to upgrade
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please?
flux of 2.8 & 2.8.2 update attached, cant find 2.8.3 update
looking for flux of 2.6 (ships with DSI 2.4) (Aug 26, 1993) - last version with sampler support menus (for individual samplers))
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i´ve made a screenshot of my archives long ago after your PM but i have yet to copy the files off the CDs.
as far i would answer this question there is nothing for SDII which would not also exist for later platforms.
please copy those files for us
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still hoping this gets posted eventually or PMd
my 8100 is 500mhz G3 atm, still looking for the G4 500mhz sonnet card
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still hoping this gets posted eventually or PMd
my 8100 is 500mhz G3 atm, still looking for the G4 500mhz sonnet card
I'm really looking forward to it too
And by the way, Sound Designer ii does not work with the Sonnet CPU upgrade
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Both of you, guys, won't get very far with this, if you don't keep your own promises. You know what I'm talking about ;)