Mac OS 9 Lives
Digital Audio Workstation & MIDI => Digital Audio Workstations & MIDI Applications => PowerPC OSX-based DAW Applications => Topic started by: Protools5LEGuy on May 26, 2015, 07:18:17 PM
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Time ago we thought OSX talk could damage our main interest (OS9) and we cleaned all OSX stuff to enhance our OS9 strength. Those days are over. OSX talk can't damage our OS9 status. If it is DAW related. We do not want to become the last resort for Photoshop PowerPC users. Our main focus is DAW and Video edition software.
OS9 vs OSX wars are not allowed. But OS9vsOSX benchmarks are allowed.
Are we mature enough to have this chat here?
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i would reccomend u make the appropriate sections here for hardware. os.. etc 8)
similar to the structure for the classic mac os section (minus the unsupported hardware section of course)
Child Boards: Operating System, User Applications, System Utilities
General Hardware Discussions, Storage Technologies, Video Cards
see my list of max compatible versions for ppc osx:
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=148.0
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Wow this is super cool! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Wow this is super cool! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
see... Vive la Revolution.. ;D
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For Now... I want to keep the Board structure at the Root level unchanged... but I will simply add a PPC Zone under any Main Board that needs One :)
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beside the fact that this is a Mac OS 9 forum ... the worst you can do with a PPC G4 is to use it for audio in OSX.
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I'm kinda with you IIO... The G4s run Audio under OS9 like a rocket, for OS X, not so... it is best to throw massive amounts of RAM and CPU Power into the equation, so OS X is better running on a fast Intel
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The G4s run Audio under OS9 like a rocket, for OS X, not so... it is best to throw massive amounts of RAM and CPU Power into the equation, so OS X is better running on a fast Intel
OSX is for duals... A dual machine is "more" machine in OSX. Also, OSX needs other graphics cards generation... I have been with ATI RAGE 128 GL/PRO for years in OS9 with "acceptable" behaviour, but on OSX RAGE is really low end. Tiger and Leo demands not only Quartz capable cards (any card from RADEON and Geforce MX2) but CoreGraphics cards (From Radeon 9600 and Geforce 5200), having bad performance on Quartz only cards for keeping that eye-candy OSX look that Steve Jobs said "you have to lick".
OSX is still the best tool for OS9. Audacity in OSX is a swiss knife for taking 32 bit floating "cubase" files to 24 bit fixed "protools" format. And for all those post-OS9 codecs/files.
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I have been with ATI RAGE 128 GL/PRO for years in OS9 with "acceptable" behaviour, but on OSX RAGE is really low end. Tiger and Leo demands not only Quartz capable cards (any card from RADEON and Geforce MX2) but CoreGraphics cards (From Radeon 9600 and Geforce 5200), having bad performance on Quartz only cards for keeping that eye-candy OSX look that Steve Jobs said "you have to lick".
You pay CPU cycles on OSX for the eye-candy. All DAW OS9 users have "half" the power on OSX than on native OS9 for this shit. I use shadow killer on OSX http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/6428/shadowkiller-x (http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/6428/shadowkiller-x) and that "helps" performance on RAGE 128 setup to be "acceptable"
beside the fact that this is a Mac OS 9 forum ... the worst you can do with a PPC G4 is to use it for audio in OSX.
Yes, but some features (as elastic audio on protools) are only on OSX versions. It could worth some users to edit with those OSX only tools and keep mixing on OS9.
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Good Points PT5... ;)
I have mentioned Logic Pro 9 more than a few times... which is my favorite DAW to date, but I still enjoy doing some things in OS 9. it's all good
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beside the fact that this is a Mac OS 9 forum ... the worst you can do with a PPC G4 is to use it for audio in OSX.
thanks for sharing your experience. but other people may have different goals / software & hardware compatibility concerns.
or they may find a different approach that you never thought to try.
lets let other people draw their own conclusions.
i personally think that the apps from around the time of Tiger are very functional + usefull.
much more so on an intel machine.. this is true.. but they are still functional on powerpc.
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=147.0
especially if you are a composer.. using external hardware synths&gear...
some vsts are good. but lets be honest. alot of them are shit.
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I have mentioned Logic Pro 9 more than a few times... which is my favorite DAW to date, but I still enjoy doing some things in OS 9. it's all good
Logic Pro 9.0.2 can run on G4s https://cjedaudio.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/logic-pro-9-ppc-compatible-and-faster/ (https://cjedaudio.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/logic-pro-9-ppc-compatible-and-faster/), but with a 1/5 power than Logic 4 on OS9... I guess you love Logic 9 on Intels
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There are a few reasons why OSX is not for me on the G4:
- SoundDiver and its Autolink with Logic are too important to me. I have more or less grown old of most virtual instruments and have a spiralling amount of MIDI outboard instead. Lack of total recall in OSX for my patches would drive me insane.
- My Korg Oasys PCI does not work on OSX. Easily the best ever DSP virtual synth/instrument card done for a Mac.
- Apple dumped support for Emagic's AMT MIDI time stamping protocol on OSX and replaced it with vanilla OSX support. To the risk of being flamed to death, I have never experienced tighter MIDI than with Unitor/AMT8 devices natively linked to Logic in OS9.
- As some of you say, OSX is sluggish on anything less than a G5. I don't remember loving it that much on my dual G5 either and I only use 10.9 on my 2012 MBP because it's a quad core i7.
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Yes, but some features (as elastic audio on protools) are only on OSX versions. It could worth some users to edit with those OSX only tools and keep mixing on OS9.
there are thousands of things you can do on OSX and i absolutely agree that you need OSX on every OS9 workstation, so that you can use the one or other utility, beside rar and mp4 maybe even some audio program.
but when you open an OSX forum here people will also talk about cubase SX - just to give you a valid example of an application which is a lot worse than its predecessor.
the argument that we also use OSX or windows is a nonargument why we should include it here. we also have girlfriedns, pets, cars, and most of us also eat and shit. but all these things are offtopic IMO.
i´d rather include "OS9 video" here, but of course this is also sketchy already (because using OS9 for video is also not the smartest you can do)
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I don´t see any good reason for a X zone here. There are hundrets of possibilities out there to talk about X. But - be honest - from the beginning of X onward, Apple tried to make 9-users live harder. How does Cameron Kaiser say it: "Apple wants us to recycle our perfectly good classic Macs and stick us on the soulless consumer treadmill."
And the most annoying thing is we are takling about 2 completely different Operating Systems. As different as Windows and Linux. For Mac OS 9 users it is totally hard to find informations for their OS, and to differ them from X informations/programs/etc. . If people now will permanently have to look if the information/posting is for X or for 9 here as well, it may become really uninterresting, as long as you are not a daily user of both systems. The snow in this forum is already quite much, and it just will become harder when we include a totally different OS.
The other problem is, the more X informations will appeare here, the more assumed easyer solutions with X will be posted. Like IIO above is talking about X for rar and mp4. Why? Both are working well with Mac OS 9 (macrar, and QT mp4). So a kind of "assimilation force" will appeare.
And really, I had enough silly comments the last 10 years in forums around the world, telling for every problem with 9; "take X". All the lies what 9 cannot do, where you allegedly need X for, ...
And it will not stop with X and PPC, already here in this thread we can read Intel is better in some cases, so the "assimilation force" will even become bigger, and there are no good reasons to talk about X for PPC and not for Intel, ...
And finally, I would be interrested about how the statement "Those days are over. OSX talk can't damage our OS9 status" evolved. Was there any internal discussion, some experiances you made the last year, any public talk about it that I didn´t get? Because it is exactly what I would expect. And when you once feared it like I do now, it would be totally interresting why this times should have changed.
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i think it was mentioned by the admin that X vs 9 discussion "Battles" will not be allowed.
u need to respect the decision of the admins.
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There is value, IMHO, in having an X section. Many X resources focus on Intel Macs which, to the purist at least, are just PCs in Apple clothing ;D
In my personal opinion, the Mac mystique has been watered down progressively over the years and it's all a bit generic in the world of the modern day Mac and MAC OS.
For example, my almost done 6 card TDM Mix system would probably run fairly well on 10.3.6 but it's just not on my list of priorities to try to do so as I have a ton of work to finish the studio as it is and, to me at least, it's a case of fully restoring the environment that I was most comfortable with over the years, rather than fiddling for the sake of it. I think there is value in that and at the same time totally 'get' how we all have different needs and use cases for 9, X, both or whatever.
I view this site as a quality resource for the G3-G4 era of Mac computing, which is a period very dear to me. If you guys want to open a forum subsection for Yellow Dog Linux, well, that would be a bit more specialist but fair game probably.
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OK... as far as "battles"; I personally don't mind if people express their opinions (even if they are negative toward OS X... or even OS 9 for that matter) as long as 2 members do not face off and attach each other, I am sure Mac OS 9 and OS X can handle any comments you can throw at them.
I expected some of our valued users would be upset about adding the PPC OSX Zones, and I apologize for not making a post explaining why we were also going to include some PPC OS X content here; I will try to do my best now...
Without going into a long boring story... we had to pass the torch from MacTron. Let's face it, he did so much (and got a lot of our available content working) and he carried the Admin load for a long time. ProTools5LEGuy was the logical choice, and I thank him for stepping up to the plate. As you know PT5 is more lenient when it comes to discussing things that are "off-topic" like Mac OS X. So the issues that we faced, from day one, were that...
1) Some apps/topics actually "overflow" from Mac OS 9 and also include OS X
2) The available PPC G4 DAW info for those who run OSX and 9 together is getting scarce out in the Web
3) Anytime Chris made a post that crossed over to both 9 and X, we had no place to put the X stuff and we ended up with a bunch of Off-topic stuff that got mixed in
4) The PPC G4 is a dead-end hardware platform, no matter what OS you are running on it
So, as per suggestions from Chris, PT5 and other users (and believe me I would get a bunch of messages), I decided to include AS A SUB-BOARD ONLY (and not as a main board off the Root of the forum) a PPC OSX Zone for each topic that needed one. If that is enough to dilute the whole forum, then you do not have much faith in the classic Mac OS as I do :)
I want to thank everyone for all the valued input that has made our forum grow; and please accept my apologies if we make changes that you do not necessary think are for the better... as always, it is your choice to ignore any sections that you do not like.
I am still hopeful that our Mac OS 9 lives forum will do just that.... keep interest in Mac OS 9.... and I am hoping that we can also help some of the many PPC OSX users along the way that are pretty much in the same boat, using equipment and an OS that is marked as "obsolete and useless"
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its fine to have an opinion.. but when u are person A with the opinion.
and person B is having a problem and asking for help .. or looking to find out information
(which is equally as antiquated + hard to find) .. u need to respect Person B's needs / goals / aspirations...
Person A's Opinion is not more important then Person B's needs.
they have as much right to try to find a solution to their problem as anyone else.
the whole sub board thing is bullshit imho it would have been a much easier thing to
let people talk freely abotu what they need to. rather then to have to make an admin handpick + sort things.. as long as the content is titled properly then there would be no need for sub boards + extra work to categorize + sort.
if all u people that bicker and spout off your useless opinions would focus on actually contributing usefull info here, we might actually get somewhere valuable.
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I am still hopeful that our Mac OS 9 lives forum will do just that.... keep interest in Mac OS 9....
Well, thanks for your explenations! Let´s see if the subforums help to keep 9 and X stuff apart. Perhaps it works.
I still fear that the focus will move towards X, as mainstream always puts pressure to niches, even if not intended. I have seen many forums going down when things are mixed up. For example when Sound On Sound put the Atari section into "Apps and Other Computers/OS" and nearly all Atari users left, and now you can just read about iOS, Android and Linux there.
Let´s hope that this "Mac OS 9 lives Forum" will stay as a main source for Mac OS 9 informations and not for other Operating Systems. For better understanding, I do not post Atari issues here even if I know there are at least 5 further Atari interrested people around. But there are better places to do so, and I do not have to bother Mac OS 9 interrested persons with my Atari (recording/MIDI) issues.
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AtariSTE...my first love!
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3) Anytime Chris made a post [snip] we ended up with a bunch of Off-topic stuff that got mixed in
now the sentence is correct. :)
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Both are working well with Mac OS 9 (macrar, and QT mp4).
unfortunately you are wrong; both are valid examples.
my point is more that there is no reason to include this OSX stuff in a MacOS9 forum, because there are thousands of sites about OSX out there.
i also use bread and salami, but i would never discuss it here. at least not with persons who are only discussing salami issues instead of actually installing and using it.
damn, now i feel hungry. :)
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lol
how do u install salami? :D
both of those arent the best food choices..
i suggest u switch to vegetables + meats containing less nitrates.
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yes IIO im well aware of your condescending perspective on how i post information here, youve made this clear numerous times along with your ridiculous sense of humour.
my point is more that there is no reason to include this OSX stuff in a MacOS9 forum, because there are thousands of sites about OSX out there.
not really..
in fact most people would think anyone using a powerpc computer in this day + age is a bit "off" in the head..
name the top 3 of these "thousands of sites" u are talking about here..
and if we take a quick look... any posts there made about powerpc would probably be quickly met with comments insulting your mental health.
powerpc osx is no longer covered anywhere.. open your eyes. its 2015
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the whole sub board thing is bullshit imho it would have been a much easier thing to
let people talk freely about what they need to. rather then to have to make an admin handpick + sort things.. as long as the content is titled properly then there would be no need for sub boards + extra work to categorize + sort.
I am not really not understanding that logic... but....
The reason I want to leave the OS X zone boards as sub-boards is because the site and the forum is Mac OS 9 Lives and it is well know we have an extreme bias to DAW related material...if I start creating a whole bunch of OSX stuff off the Root level, I think it will 1) get confusing to new members 2) make the main page even longer... the sub-boards will still accomplish the goal, and PPC OS X Users that Google DAW related issues will still find there way here. It kind of makes sense that the Main Topic is OS 9 based and then we have a PPC zone for cross-over apps and questions on hardware that works on both platforms.
We always have "Old School DAW" for anything we don't have here...
The other idea is a complete re-write :) LOL
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yes.we have never seen eye to eye on the whole "mac os 9 lives" thing either.. for example.. just because 9 is alive.. doesnt mean X is dead.. two things can be alive at the same time..
to be honest i would never have even contributed my time here if i knew that you guys were going to waste my time with this bullshit x vs 9 argument rather then focus on the software & ie: actually doing stuff with audio production!!!
the whole reason why i contributed here in the first place was with the goal of using 9 in combination with X. i would never have ever gotten involved here if i knew that i would be forced to only talk about 9. everyone knows that 9 was buried. never at any poiint have i ever said anything negative about any version of X. I love X i think X is great. in all its forms + versions.
9 is a great way to use old hardware.. for me it provides value of cheap midi hardware thats the biggest thing going for 9 and the reason i got involved with it in the first place.. because i wanted to do advanced midi networking between workstations.. and knew i could go on ebay and grab up an oldschool midi interface for 30$ that had 8 ports in & out (ie: MTP 1 & 2, MTP AV, opcode studio 4 etc)
apparently this forum is also great for trolls who like to run their mouths + contribute fuck all. while real guys like myself & chokobo who actually have usefull into to share.. get opressed by trolls telling us what we can and cant talk about.
its a damn shame
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Both are working well with Mac OS 9 (macrar, and QT mp4).
unfortunately you are wrong; both are valid examples.
Off Topic, but I never had problems with Macrar. And well mp4 can become tricky when vbr stuff is used, but decoding works well. I can watch mp4s/xvids/ ... in pal even at my 9600 (G4 800). So what exactly is the problem with mp4 and rar with Mac OS 9? Perhaps we should discuss this at another thread?
my point is more that there is no reason to include this OSX stuff in a MacOS9 forum, because there are thousands of sites about OSX out there.
I agree 100%! (But how is this connected to the rar and mp4 issue above?)
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Perhaps we should discuss this at another thread?
yes please. :)
btw, i actually wonder why someone would need to extract rar under OS9 anyway. ^^
I agree 100%! (But how is this connected to the rar and mp4 issue above?)
well, that is where PTGuy is right: if at one point something does not work with OS9, this raises the question how else it would work.
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Can't....help....myself.....must....add.....2 cents
All of this discussion re: what you can do in X and not in 9 yada yada is not significant etc. seems to be missing one very important point: 64 vs. 32 bit processing.
OSX was unwieldy, bloated and slooow when run on single 32-bit CPUs and Apple knew it. Apple also knew what was in the pipeline and that the switch to 64-bit dual Intels would fix the problem. IMO, they actually did a pretty good job of handling the transition from the old to the new. Can you imagine Microsoft handling that changeover? AARGH!
Maybe a small sub board / section to handle that short time when Carbon and Classic were needed and used is an idea?
Just a thought - I'n new around here and I'm not trying to push my opinion, just offering...
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Yeah, that's Kinda the idea about the PPC X zones... we will post the intermediary reference material that is getting hard to find... In a nut shell, anything G3/G4/G5 based prior to Intel OS X (which has plenty of stuff available on the web)... Here is a quick synopsis of our evolution (for those who ever wondered)
PHASE 1: The first site.. "OS9DAW"
(http://www.macos9lives.com/_img/diehardposts/os9dawhomelogo.jpg)
Look Familiar ?
Didn't get that much attention... and the original forum was hacked with spam bots... so it was back to the drawing board
PHASE 2: The idea was a site dedicated to classic Mac OS (pre-X) and also included Audio plugins that were hard to find and were considered abandonware. At the time, the Macintosh Garden, had almost no Pro Audio apps, and many of the "Free" plugins across the Web that claimed to be OS 9 based had broken links and appeared to be gone forever. So I blew the dust of 2 Volumes of over 600 Audio DAW & Plugins CDs/DVDs and when MacTron joined (lucky # 25); we hit it night and day, Testing, Archiving, and Imaging. MacTron made everything that didn't work... work, he is responsible for getting a lot of our plugins to behave.
PHASE 3: When Chris (lucky #67) joined, he had more energy than mortal man, and he alone started posting massive amounts of tech. info. and reference material that started driving Users Here by the dozens.
PHASE 4: As if by some strange coincidence, the renewed interest in Mac OS 9, and forums like https://www.thinkclassic.org/ with founders like iMic (who was ripping away all the obstacles that made unsupported G4s unable to boot to Mac OS 9), and the also the Mac Garden (which was now stable thanks to Knez)... all the pieces were coming together... and with about 1000 members strong, it was clear the goal was accomplished; The Mac G4 and Mac OS 9 would continue to thrive and maybe even get exposed to a new generation.
PHASE 5: (Present Day) Realizing that PPC Mac OS X (10.1 thru 10.5); is tagged as another "Dead end" or "Obsolete Platform" or "Worthless", etc., we will now provide a reference to at least musicians that are still on the PPC (as many of you have suggested). The idea of hosting content and considering applications that run on PPC Mac OS X versions as abandonware is NOT a line I want to cross, but I am sure, like OS 9, it will be thought of as a dead market, and eventually, software companies will just give it away. We have purchased 1000GB of online storage from MediaFire to host all hard to get PPC X freeware (and stuff that has been deemed now free by their creators); this will expand our download boards. The Adrive OS 9 content will remain on Adrive and separated from the OS X stuff. I will be going thru the last 50 to 100 CDs of OS 9 stuff and be adding to Adrive in the near future :)
Thanks for being awesome, as you all are, always :)
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if i knew that i would be forced to only talk about 9. everyone knows that 9 was buried.
As nobody else is saying anything about this statement, I have to tell that I just can wonder about it. It is at least a creative perception of reality to write this down at macos9lives.com .
trolls telling us what we can and cant talk about.
Good point, perhaps this is the way to go. Going to Linux Forums, asking for BSD subforums, going to Win2000 forums and talking about XP and Win7 software, goint to Amiga forums and talking about Atari-Stuff, ... I have to think about it, ... at least I am now seriously thinking about the salami subforums idea. ;)
if i knew that you guys were going to waste my time
Aha, ... ;)
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Here is a quick synopsis of our evolution (for those who ever wondered)
Thanks for that summary. I can understand you much better now, and perhaps it will work well with the subforums (I really hope that keeping informations apart will be more easy, and that I can ignore X stuff more simply). Let´s see how it evolves.
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I enjoyed that historical overview too!! ;D
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if i knew that you guys were going to waste my time
Aha, ... ;)
those who stay on topic and actually use OS9 for audio are the trolls. ^^
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another useless post containing no information.. great job :-\
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The thing is this forum is a community. By posting here we develop friendships (or in some cases Frenemies). We develop a trust with each other. Yeah sure we can seek out information at other locals, but are those folks going to be as knowable about how to get an OS X/ OS9 machine to function as well as this group? Probably not. The two are intertwined to a high level, and if you use Nine then you are probably also using Ten.
These days the overwhelming bulk of my effort is taken care of in OS X. I'm probably way more knowledgeable with my X than my 9. The memories of 9 constantly fade. But I do remember quite a bit, and by exercising those memories they come back. Finding you cats, and building the super StudioVision machine was pure joy. But it's never going to be my main machine. Those days are gone. Even my PPC OS X machine is mostly hanging on because it can run one synth that I can't get on the current machine. And that's okay. :)
I have lots of old hardware hanging around here, and I can do lots of different tests. People showed an interest in DP on the PPC with various hardware setups so I checked it out. Some were really happy to be handed this knowledge. For me it was entertaining to track down. I'm not going to run it myself as I might as well be using DP9, but for those wanting that info I was happy to find it. Sadly some got their panties bunched up about posting it here. That really took the wind out of my sails.
Well now there's a place where that knowledge can be shared too. If you don't want to read it then don't. It wont effect you. If you do well then, smiles. :)
Lets be friends. Lets share our wealth of knowledge. Everyone benefits.
MacTron--dude I apologize for any of my actions that may have made you feel uncomfortable. I think the effort you put in is totally awesome. :)
Chris--you are a force of nature and I am so happy to be your friend. :D
DH--this is truly a great place! Thank you Thank you Thank you. :)
Now, lets go watch some cat videos. 8)
Oh wait I have DP9 (http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp) to go play with...
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but are those folks going to be as knowable about how to get an OS X/ OS9 machine to function as well as this group? Probably not..
there are about 10 or so active OSX users here and if you think this is a community you have never seen one.
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Very entertaining and informative debate. Thanks :)
Is this...
We have purchased 1000GB of online storage from MediaFire to host all hard to get PPC X freeware (and stuff that has been deemed now free by their creators); this will expand our download boards.
happening?
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Chokobo was a great guy... he had some great posts..
its amazing when people actually discuss DAW software knowledge instead of overclocking to gain 1 measly mhz
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Very entertaining and informative debate. Thanks :)
Is this...
We have purchased 1000GB of online storage from MediaFire to host all hard to get PPC X freeware (and stuff that has been deemed now free by their creators); this will expand our download boards.
happening?
Yes there is a lot on content on the Mediafire server, but I have yer to integrate it here, I have been time limitted
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i thought u put protools5leguy in charge of the mediafire account
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Time ago we thought OSX talk could damage our main interest (OS9) and we cleaned all OSX stuff to enhance our OS9 strength. Those days are over. OSX talk can't damage our OS9 status. If it is DAW related. We do not want to become the last resort for Photoshop PowerPC users. Our main focus is DAW and Video edition software.
OS9 vs OSX wars are not allowed. But OS9vsOSX benchmarks are allowed.
Are we mature enough to have this chat here?
well that's cool, i never joined this community because of the os9 system.
I really only subscribe to this great community for music editing and production software with mac powerpc and everything that involves ppc.
yes, that's true, i must say that i also have linux and workbench for my Amiga commodore on ppc machine, because they are very good for handling audio and midi editing software, that's what interests me most about my ppc machines, although i also use some graphic design to make covers for musical publications in the labels to which I belong.
The time was very sad, in which in a very trashy way, the rest of the software versions for ppc were cornered, with the fear of distorting the mac os9 material, I did not spend much here because of that stigma, I always had my life saved in ¨macintosh garden¨, that the name is already funny and encompasses the idea of ¨macintosh¨, only macintosh from the past, abandoned things that are great and more oriented to graphic design and video games with a good section for audio and video tools.
it would be great to stay in that vein of macintoshgarden, for music production software at all levels (midi, audio, samples).
and I believe that this would make the largest amount of software available to members to recover all the material in case of an accident or cyber attack on the network.
I use my ¨telegram¨ to have my mac os9 and osx software for my powerpc machines, with os9 osX, linux, Amiga.
For many years now, I have never lost that software, even in the days when there were attacks on Telegram, I did not lose anything, perhaps because I kept myself private and anonymous.
I also see that these telegram servers are infinite, I will have about 250 gigabytes of software for powerpc, I lost count a long time ago, but I always use it as a backup.
I just wanted to share my perspective and some suggestions.
As always, thanks for all the work you do.
Greetings and always respect this great community. -afro-
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It's not exactly DAW's software but if you have the free plugins from some old 2000's developers, you can enjoy or even create plugins for your DAW's with MAX.
Here we have a lot of software for Mac Os9 and Mac OsX.
It's just to remind you a little that in 2023 it's still available.
https://cycling74.com/downloads/archive
massive collection for MAX 4.1 or later
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/8077-max-msp-apps-patches-externals-abstractions-collections-os9-