Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Hardware => CPU Upgrades => Topic started by: domii on February 27, 2022, 03:55:23 PM
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I know this has been covered before in an old thread, but thought I would start a new one as parts where incomplete.
And it is always a struggle to find the multiplier settings when you need them when many of the old sites have disappeared.
So will post what I have and edit this in future if I make any better progress. Feel free to add anything that would help.
And it is fun - 1.8GHz puts out benchmark numbers over 1000 for geekbench, thats MDD territory.
MacOS 9.22 is ridiculously quick. Will be posting some Unreal Tournament and Quake fps numbers shortly.
On the backside the resistors R355, R351, R358, R362, Essentially removing them all gives you 1.5GHz
Which should be possible on all the models.
R52 - next to cpu under the heatsink. R52 is important as it provides values above 1.58GHz
You can even use a lead pencil or one of those conductive pens to bridge the pins - providing speeds from 1.67 up to 2GHz.
(there is a 1.92GHz setting with evengthing bridged, not sure if anyone has tried that one, but I would like too in near future)
Some things I found on other threads.
1.25 -> (1.42 safe) or 1.5GHz
1.42 -> (1.5GHz safe) or 1.58/1.67GHz, there is even a chap on youtube with a video claiming 2.0GHz with a massive heatsink.
Late model versions
1.3 -> (1.58GHz safe) or 1.67/1.75GHz
1.5 -> (1.67/1.75 safe) or 1.8GHz
* Obviously replace the heatsink pad/paste with something decent when you do the mods to help with the thermals.
* Also a good time to replace the battery and give it a could cleaning/blasting with air.
* And upgrade the hard drive if you havent already to a mSata SSD using one of those adapters.
The main drawback is heat & voltage. I haven't figured out how to adjust the voltage.
It seems the cpu will go to 1.8GHz with the stock blower and Aluminum heatsink. Which is not horrible, they are well designed for the tiny space.
But I would like to go copper as it would most likely provide up to 50% better heat dissipation on something this small.
After which I might give the 1.92 & 2GHz speeds a go. (which is silly speeds)
Took some measurements and pictures.
Stock aluminum finned heatsink. 40mmx50mmx20mm.
The Cpu pushpin mounts, 35mm spacing between posts. (or 49mm on the diagonal).
60x60x15mm, 12v 2pin blower flan.
I could probably cut/hacksaw a heatsink smaller and drill the holes if needbe, just need to find something suitable out there.
Might replace the blower as well if there is something more silent. Noctua has good stuff but not sure if they have a 60mm blower. There does seem to be various generics on Amazon - not sure if any are better than stock though.
* I know dosdude1 is doing a full on 7447B chip replacement that rocks 2GHz nicely.
* There was a chap that wired dip switches to the resistors and figured out many of the settings on a thread somewhere. Booted his 1.33 mini all the way to 1.92GHz.
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Impressive!
Especially for all you speed demons out there. ;)
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I just think: How about underclocking to 1.00 Ghz with big copper heatsink...fanless solution possible?
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i think even if we need to stick out a heatsink like an old drag car a fanless solution is the only way to go
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i think even if we need to stick out a heatsink like an old drag car a fanless solution is the only way to go
That was what I thinked too :)
Is there anybody who can test is underclocked fanless solution possible?
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Hello, I am writing to you from Spain. I have a Mac Mini G4 at 1.42 that I want to use for OS 9.2.2 (Now I write to you from the Classilla browser inside Mac OS 9). I'm searching the internet and I can't find overclock resistor settings for speeds above 1.58GHz. My intention is to reach 1.67GHz, but all the photos on the internet are disappearing. Can someone post a photo of the resistor positions, for speeds greater than 1.58GHz? Thank you.
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hello I'm come from china shenzhen, I find the Power10.2 Model is different from the Power10.1 Model
Power10.2 Model jumper set R351 R355 R358, is different from this article
https://thehouseofmoth.com/ppc-overclocking-station/#G4mini
Does anyone known all the new jumper set in the Power10.2 Model?
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If you have the 1.33 GHz model - House of Moth mentions a fifth resistor that he had yet to locate.
“To set the jumpers for 1.33GHz, a 5th resistor has to be located (as it needs to be removed).
With the 5th resistor, for now, permanently enabled, you can only configure for the 4 clock speeds shown above. A common belief is that the 5th resistor is always enabled and acts as a ground but that does not work as the 1.33GHz configuration needs that resistor removed. Comparing a 1.33GHz board with another G4 mini board should help in locating that 5th resistor. Once this is located I will update this page.” - House of Moth
You may however wish to review this thread…
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4408.0
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So is there any possible to replace the CPU to he hign model 7447A, for example 1.5GHZ and 1.667GHZ and overclock again?
I bought the two model from ebay
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@sonicsky Have you removed the heatsink from your PowerMac 10,2? (Actually a 1.33 GHz Mac mini?)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12896;image)
sonicsky's images
If you have the heatsink off, do you see a resistor @ R52?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12898;image)
Better view:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12902;image)
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@FBz, I have not tested the 1.33 GHz Mac mini,
now I decide to change the 1.25GCPU to 1.5GHZ MC7447B HX1500YH QND0645, and set the jmuper to 1.58GHZ first
If the result is ok, and I will change the 1.33 GHz CPU to 1.67GHz MC7447B HX1667ZF QUD0529 and the jmuper to 1.83GHZ last.
I worry the overclock due to cpu power is not enough, so did i change the adpater to 110W make it normal use?
My aim is to overclock the Mac Mini G4 and Long-term use, thx you give me the graph to compare the jmuper set,
I will take off the heatsink and check the 1.33GHz whether the R52 is different
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Over 1.5 GHz you probably should increase the CPU voltage ...
You may need to make other changes to the board to increase the power to the CPU - for anything above 1.5 GHz.
What, I do not know.
But maybe 1.67 is possible without changing the CPU to 1.67GHz MC7447B HX1667ZF QUD0529?
OR 1.5GHZ MC7447B HX1500YH QND0645?
You have a 1.25 GHz mini? I thought your pics were of a 1.42 and a 1.33 GHz? ???
Maybe the 1.33 GHz PowerMac 10,2 already has the R52 removed? You will tell us.
The 1.42 GHz PowerMac 10,1 may have the R52 (which may need to be removed?).
[1.25 GHz Mac minis DO have the R52 in place.]
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12904;image)
I'd suggest that everyone re-read domil's first post in this thread (at the top) above.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6226.msg46606.html#msg46606
AND Roman78's comments over on this other thread too...
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4408.msg31058.html#msg31058
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A question for those that may have one of these specific, stock G4 Mac minis.
(Still awaiting a response on this from @sonicsky. So, anyone else with a 1.33?)
1.33 GHz Mac Mini ONLY
Q: Is there a resistor present at the R52 location (under the heatsink)?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12902;image)
Resistor location red-dotted here on a 1.25 GHz Mac mini.
And if you’ve ever removed (or tried to remove) your G4 Mac mini’s heatsink, you might try this:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12950;image)
Easier heatsink removal, with a nylon spacer and steel pin from the backside.
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@FBz Yes you are right, The PowerMac10.2 1.33G Model do not have the jmpuer,
And I test the change the PowerMac10.1 1.25G CPU to 1.5GHZ MC7447B HX1500YH QND0645,
then overclock it to 1.5GHz, it can not work, I don't konw why? Maybe the CPU is different?
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@sonicsky / The new CPU does not work? Could you change it back?
Still not certain that your mini was a 1.25 GHz to begin with - as the “backside” resistors matched both 1.42 GHz minis here. (R351 & R358 present.) *Unless someone had already changed your 1.25’s resistors around before.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12956;image)
A 1.25 here (left side) - and your two are the middle and right examples.
And have not tested this yet, but removal of all four backside resistors from a 1.25 and the 1.42 GHz Mac minis - should yield an overclock of 1.5 GHz. (OR optionally… leaving only R358 in place should net an overclock of 1.58 GHz.) Both instances with the original CPUs and R52 in place.
Thank you for confirming that the 1.33 GHz mini does not have the R52 present.
Overclocking the 1.33 GHz mini will be different than the 1.25 & 1.42 and should not require a CPU swap.
AND if you check the link in the next post below here, you'll note that they found
a similar CPU [to the one that you placed in your 1.25(?)] already in their 1.5 GHz mini.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12960;image)
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Thinking about overclocking a 1.5 GHz Mac mini?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=12958;image)
Found this obscure gem from one of our Czech “Mac comrades” concerning overclock of 1.5 Ghz Mac mini
to 1.83 GHz. A very intensive resource.
Translated via Google Translate… to English:
https://www-amigaportal-cz.translate.goog/node/156189?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
(Hope this works for everyone.)
If not... the original (Czech) version: https://www.amigaportal.cz/node/156189
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From the article referenced by FBz:
This is what my processor looks like - it's an MPC 7447B, and according to the factory code, it's rated at 1500 MHz.
This is good news because the "B" type was capable of higher frequencies than the "A" type.
Searching the web shows that "B" types are capable of going up to 2 GHz in practice.
Damn, 2 Ghz with a 9200, that's an amazing OS9 rig for it's size :)
Hey FBz,
Is the "A" or "B" just random luck ? Or is there a pattern for which minis have a "B" series CPU ?
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Hey FBz,
Is the "A" or "B" just random luck ? Or is there a pattern for which minis have a "B" series CPU ?
Dunno... without pulling the 1.42 and 1.5's here apart again. I'll check eventually. More homework!
BUT the lowly 1.25 mini that is now open here does have an MC7447B. (I just can't quite make out its' MHz rating - but it isn't 1500 MHz / if that does make a difference.) And I have found no references to successful overclocks noted of 2 GHz. Cooling being the big concern. And if my memory serves me well, I think there was a mention of attaining 1.92 with some stability.
Ahh, Roman78 took a 1.42 to 1.92 http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4408.msg31132.html#msg31132 but it crashed running XBench. Additional info (also from Roman78, I think) was later posted to Applefritters. Sorry don't have that link handy. ::)
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Just read this over at macrumors. Could be interesting.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-7448-and-7457-swap.2233532/page-11?post=32783020#post-32783020
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Just read this over at macrumors. Could be interesting.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-7448-and-7457-swap.2233532/page-11?post=32783020#post-32783020
Wow, he has stable results for a Mini running 1.92Ghz, we really gotta get this duplicated and documented here if possible
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Especially interesting considering sailorMH’s success with a 1.5 GHz mini… overclocking it to 1.83 (stable). AND the notion that greater overclocks might be possible with more knowledge of voltage / current adjustments (as indibil has now provided). Maybe it won’t be necessary to replace the MC7447B on the 1.5 GHz model minis… WITH adequate voltage / current adjustments?
(However, might still need to change the 1.25 GHz models?)
sailorMH’s translated link again:
https://www-amigaportal-cz.translate.goog/node/156189?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Still no 1.33 GHz Mac mini example available here.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=13056;image)
Thanks for the heads up, Philgood! ;)
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how´s the 1.5 a B and the 1.4 an A when the 1.5 is a "silent upgrade" to the 1.4?
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how´s the 1.5 a B and the 1.4 an A when the 1.5 is a "silent upgrade" to the 1.4?
Because apple's definition of "silent upgrade" means...
1) WE are Gods and... we are going to change as much as possible... including the CPU and vRAM
2) WE are Gods and... we are going to document as little as possible... possibly nothing
2) WE are Gods and... may leave the price the same, hike up price for no reason at all (like they did to EU on Mac Pro), or shave off a couple bucks (the rarest choice)
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Hello, here I have explained how I managed to increase the voltage and current limit to a Mini. In my case I have done a SWAP with a 1.67GHz MPC7447B and I have reached 1.92GHz, but it can be used to achieve a greater overclock with a stock processor.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-7448-and-7457-swap.2233532/post-32783020 (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-7448-and-7457-swap.2233532/post-32783020)
Here my blog:
https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2023/12/mac-mini-g4-192ghz.html (https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2023/12/mac-mini-g4-192ghz.html)
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"WE are Gods and…"
Reminds me of that movie title - and a great movie too: “The Gods Must Be Crazy”.
And here’s another little example of weirdness.
Stated earlier that there was no example of the 1.33 GHz Mini here.
Well, not my location… but @sonicsky did post an image of his processor.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6226.0;attach=13080;image)
And if you can make it out from the image, that’s also a “B”.
So are they all “B” except for the 1.42 GHz models?
@snial and @max1zzz (over on 68Kmla) report having 1.33’s.
*1.33’s are only G4 Mac minis with the R52’s absent / stock.
Just when I was almost, finally, going to button-up all minis here.
Have asked @indibil if the MAX1993’s are all set same / each version.
And when he says MAX1993 is “tiny” - he means tiny!
Google translate of @indibil’s blog:
https://rosysumenteinquieta-blogspot-com.translate.goog/2023/12/mac-mini-g4-192ghz.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
I don’t relish the idea of changing processors, but I might “adjust” the MAX1993. ;)
AND are the 1.33 and the 1.5 GHz - not Motorola (but "silently" Freescale processors)?
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I only have this original Mini at 1.25 and another original at 1.47. I have only measured the values at 1.25.
I have identified the resistors in the photo, I would have to take the tester and measure (with a magnifying glass, hehe)
Adding 330k or 220k in parallel changes the value little, it is not risky.
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@sailorMH achieved stable 1.83 GHz with a stock 1.5 GHz processor by changing resistors
(and R52). NOW with the updated, “indibil MAX1993 approach” for voltage / current
increases, perhaps greater than 1.83 GHz (stable) is possible and with a stock 1.5 GHz
processor? Too bad that @sailorMH is off for the holidays and likely not to return until
after the New Year… or we would know more about this much sooner.
Me? I can’t decide if I want to try this on a 1.25 or a 1.5 GHz.
(And I now have a headache!) ::)
@indibil:
And… how about a “final” picture with 330k or 220k in place as it is working now?
*For you to achieve 2.0 GHz - will you need to remove R52 and only have R362 in place? ;)
GREAT WORK! indibil.
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AND are the 1.33 and the 1.5 GHz - not Motorola (but "silently" Freescale processors)?
FYI, Freescale is (was) Motorola.
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The semiconductor division of Motorola. The radio/defense/contractor divisions are still Motorola.
Freescale merged with NXP (formerly the semiconductor arm of Philips N.V.) in 2015.
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Hello, i have added a copper heatsink in my Mac Mini 1.92GHz
I attach some pics.
https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2023/12/mac-mini-g4-192ghz-con-disipador-de.html (https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2023/12/mac-mini-g4-192ghz-con-disipador-de.html)
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Hello, i have added a copper heatsink in my Mac Mini 1.92GHz
Wow, that looks gorgeous ! Can you please explain where you sourced that and if you had to modify it ? What was the install process ?
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Indibil does it AGAIN!
GREAT WORK!!!
He says:
“…now the fan blows more slowly, as it did with the original CPU at 1.25GHz, and the air feels hot. Before changing the heatsink the fan was blowing faster (@1.92 GHz) and the air coming out quickly did not seem to be as hot, although it was.”
My question is - what is the exhaust air temperature measured at the back case opening NOW with the new heatsink and slower fan speed? (Cold boot, no load, at idle…temps taken @10 minutes and @15 minutes?)
Suppose I should make similar copper heatsink for “stock” Mac minis here to check for possible measurable improvement?
We don’t need no stinkin’ CNC! ;)
https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2023/12/mac-mini-g4-192ghz-con-disipador-de.html
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Suppose I should make similar copper heatsink for “stock” Mac minis here to check for possible measurable improvement?
And/or big "hot rod" copper heatsink for tests that would be possible make fanless 1.0 Ghz Mac Mini.
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Hello, the heatsink is this:
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005004262614951.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.96.58b1194d3UjeS7&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp (https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005004262614951.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.96.58b1194d3UjeS7&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp)
As it measures 50x50mm, I had to cut the width to leave it at 50x40. The height is the same as the original.
First you have to protect the base that have contact with the CPU, I used yellow thermal tape. Using the original as a template, you make the four 3mm diameter holes, and then with sheet metal scissors I cut out the fins in the area of the holes and patiently filed what was left.
I can't measure the temperature, I don't have any reliable thermometer right now, but with the original, and the Mini closed, it blew a lot, with this one, at 1.35v final, it doesn't blow excessively, but it's winter here, it's cold.
I take this opportunity to ask you for help. I have found 32MB VRAM chips like those used in the Mini 1.5GHz, and I would like to change them, but for it to be recognized, I would have to flash the ROM of the 9200 graphics card, but I cannot find any utility for "OSX PPC", nor can I locate in which EPROM it is stored. Maybe it's on the same EPROM as the Mini's BOOT ROM?
Surely there are experts
P.S. I don't know the VRAM speed set on the Mini, but the chips are 300MHz. GaphicAccelerator doesn't show my graphics card speed on the Mini.
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I have check with Aticcelerator II and the speed of the VRAM is only 190MHz, but the memory chips is rated 300MHz. It is for reduce temp or reduce consumption?
Rare...
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Okay.
No one can offer any insights or possible help here for indibil?
I take this opportunity to ask you for help. I have found 32MB VRAM chips like those used in the Mini 1.5GHz, and I would like to change them, but for it to be recognized, I would have to flash the ROM of the 9200 graphics card, but I cannot find any utility for "OSX PPC", nor can I locate in which EPROM it is stored. Maybe it's on the same EPROM as the Mini's BOOT ROM?
Surely there are experts?
P.S. I don't know the VRAM speed set on the Mini, but the chips are 300MHz. GraphicAccelerator doesn't show my graphics card speed on the Mini.
Pretty please... and with some sugar on it?
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Well, it seems that no one is interested in the topic. Well, I bring you some progress. I confirm that it is necessary to flash the graphics card with the appropriate ROM, it does not automatically detect the 64MB. I have changed the VRAM and the image appears undefined. Tested with all 4 chips, to rule out defects. I have re-soldered the 32MB ones, and the image is back.
We need some ATIflash for Mac OS9 or OSX that allows us to download from 1.5GHz and load at 1.25/42GHz. Unless the ATI ROM is stored alongside Apple's Boot ROM, then you will need to dump that content and add it back. I have a TL866 programmer and adapter for that chip, but someone should desolder and read the Boot ROM from their Mini 1.5GHz with a programmer.
edit: It is possible that the 32MB chips instead of the 16MB ones did not work because the original ones are HY5DU283222AF at 2.5V and the ones I put in from the PowerBook are HY5DS573222AF at 1.8V. Perhaps that excess voltage has caused the incorrect operation. Difference between "DU" and "DS", I just noticed the difference.
edit 2: There were some minor graphical glitches, and I thought that by reflowing they would be solved, but my surprise was that after the reflow with the two 16MB chips I now have the same symptoms as with the 32MB chips!! Those 32MB chips came from a motherboard for parts, and perhaps they were damaged, or were damaged when removed, due to excess heat. Soldering memory chips costs much more than a CPU. Now I have found both 16MB and 32MB used chips, but they will take a few weeks to arrive. I have to find out the VRAM voltage because the 32MB ones are still 1.8V and the 32MB ones are 2.5V. Both 300MHz. I would be grateful if someone could provide me with the schematic of the Mac Mini G4: 820-1652-A, because I can't find it.
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The ideal would be to find Hynix HY5DU573222F that operate at 2.5V like the original Hynix HY5DU283222F. In the PB there was only HY5DS573222F and on ebay I have only found HY5DS573222F, so to be able to use 64MB of VRAM with those chips it is necessary to lower the VRAM voltage from 2.5V to a maximum of 2.1V. They support a maximum of 3.6V but it is not optimal. I attach screenshots.
I need Mini G4 schematics.
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I need the schematics of the Mac Mini G4 for two reasons, first to be able to change the VRAM voltage from 2.5V to 1.8V, although I have a plan B that also requires the schematics.
The other reason is because in the schematics of the iMac G4 I have seen that there are some resistors that by combining 0 and 1 you can choose between the type and amount of VRAM installed, and perhaps the Mini has something similar. If I manage to install the 64MB ones, it may only recognize 32MB without this change.
I mention this in case anyone is interested in joining the project and moving forward.
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I've had a decent search but haven't been able to find anything sorry. Have you tried asking at 68kMLA?
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Thanks for your help. :)
I've asked a few questions on 68kMLA but don't usually get a response.
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Hello. I did the CPU SWAP to another Mac Mini G4 1.42GHz at 7447B@1667, as on the previous computer, and this time I set the multiplier to 2GHz. And the result has been favorable, the Mini starts and is stable, with the copper heatsink. You have some more information here:
https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2024/04/mac-mini-g4-2ghz.html (https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2024/04/mac-mini-g4-2ghz.html)
:)
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Yes @indibil, you are crazy (we know).
But crazy, the "good kind". ;)
Only wish I had time to try this overclock with a stock 1.5 GHz.
(As I can only imagine OS 9 running @ 2 GHz on a G4 Mac mini.)
Congrats and thanks for sharing!
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thats totally amazing and superhero material
please leave some women for the rest of us
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thats totally amazing and superhero material
please leave some women for the rest of us
Women don't approach computer geeks, lol, neither for you nor for me ((in a humorous tone)), ;D.
Yes @indibil, you are crazy (we know).But crazy, the "good kind". ;)
Only wish I had time to try this overclock with a stock 1.5 GHz.(As I can only imagine OS 9 running @ 2 GHz on a G4 Mac mini.)
Congrats and thanks for sharing!
I have a Mini 1.5GHz - 64MB ready to test, I just need to find the right day with a clear mind. And make another copper heatsink.
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Great job! I need to get myself a Mac Mini G4 again :D
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can you show us what heatsink was modded and how?
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can you show us what heatsink was modded and how?
Reference:
https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2023/12/mac-mini-g4-192ghz-con-disipador-de.html
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6226.msg53310#msg53310
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6226.msg53329#msg53329
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Consider getting a 7448 processor for your mini: you will get twice the L2 cache, and it runs cooler at 2GHz!
Search topics in MacRumors PPC subforum for this. You will get extra assistance from there with this.
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Consider getting a 7448 processor for your mini: you will get twice the L2 cache, and it runs cooler at 2GHz!
Has someone actually done this 7448 swap in a G4 Mac mini? I can’t find any reference on MacRumors about this, other than @sailorMH commenting about the evolutionary MPC86xx replacing the 7448 and that the use of the MPC86xx was impossible.
@indibil specifically chose the MC7447B 1.67 GHz to swap with his original MC7447B 1.25 GHz in hope of not needing a firmware update when overclocking to 1.92 GHz. Later he did change the voltage (and the heatsink to copper) in order to stabilize that mini. (No small tasks in and of themselves - but very tiny, tiny work.) And now, he has achieved 2 GHz in what once was a 1.42 GHz mini with yet another 7447B 1.67 GHz CPU reball swap.
@indibil did express interest in a 7448 (1.2, 1.4 and 1.7 GHz) CPU from @JoyBed back in March of this year, so maybe we’ll see even faster than 2.0 GHz attained with the mini???
indibil and sailorMH’s Mac mini convo begins here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-7448-and-7457-swap.2233532/page-11?post=32773721#post-32773721
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Consider getting a 7448 processor for your mini: you will get twice the L2 cache, and it runs cooler at 2GHz!
Has someone actually done this 7448 swap in a G4 Mac mini? I can’t find any reference on MacRumors about this, other than @sailorMH commenting about the evolutionary MPC86xx replacing the 7448 and that the use of the MPC86xx was impossible.
@indibil specifically chose the MC7447B 1.67 GHz to swap with his original MC7447B 1.25 GHz in hope of not needing a firmware update when overclocking to 1.92 GHz. Later he did change the voltage (and the heatsink to copper) in order to stabilize that mini. (No small tasks in and of themselves - but very tiny, tiny work.) And now, he has achieved 2 GHz in what once was a 1.42 GHz mini with yet another 7447B 1.67 GHz CPU reball swap.
@indibil did express interest in a 7448 (1.2, 1.4 and 1.7 GHz) CPU from @JoyBed back in March of this year, so maybe we’ll see even faster than 2.0 GHz attained with the mini???
indibil and sailorMH’s Mac mini convo begins here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-7448-and-7457-swap.2233532/page-11?post=32773721#post-32773721
Consider getting a 7448 processor for your mini: you will get twice the L2 cache, and it runs cooler at 2GHz!
Search topics in MacRumors PPC subforum for this. You will get extra assistance from there with this.
I don't have that much hope. I was talking to JoyBed about getting some 7448s, but halfway through the conversation, he didn't get back to me, so there won't be any 7448s for now.
I know they have installed it on a Mini, but they had to modify the firmware with a specific patcher for Mini that they made.
Since I made this mod to the Mac Mini G4 by raising the CPU current limit, they don't usually respond to me, I guess I have entered the realm of the gods being a mere mortal.
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As a owner of a standard 1.42 Ghz Mac Mini G4 I tip my hat in respect for your successful modification. I'm far too untalented for hardware mods, but watch with great awe what people are able to come up with. Now all you need to do is to scale up production of these units and sell them on ebay for insane amounts before you retire ;-)
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@aBc Yeah, there's a thread (multiple threads?) from some years ago they got the 7448 in. I have to dig them up, it's been years I spent any time on MacRumors PPC. Like @indibil said, though, there's firmware patching involved. I forgot if it was the same patching also needed for any Mac OS 9 hardware with a 7448, and/or if there was also flashing of the mini's ROM. IIRC we did have to flash it, I think with a PowerMac10,1 (mini 1.25GHz / 1.42GHz models) ROM modified by dosdude1 so that the partial 7448 support in ROM would be not just partial, but complete. The side-effect of using the ROM, again IIRC, is that things like the serial number of the mini were also changed to dosdude1's mini. And, of course, PowerMac10,2 minis (1.33GHz / 1.5GHz) would be changed to PowerMac10,1's firmware, but that is actually a good thing, since our Mac OS 9 port for the mini works much, much better with the original minis, and that may perhaps improve them to work the same.
In any case, @indibil, don't give up the dream! Be patient with them. I almost "hired" JoyBed to do CPU resoldering for me years ago, as well, the only reason I didn't being the fact that I had to leave Europe along with nearly all my Mac hardware... But he's a cool guy. There's also an US-based guy that does what he does (forgot his name, he made a dual 7448 2.0GHz MDD daughtercard and a dual 7457 1.67GHz MDD one as well for me, as per my directions, which were never able to be shipped to me, and so at least the 7448 one silently went to Action Retro, of all people, instead...). To do it with regular MDD daughtercards, he used an tiny interposer board between the CPU and the socket so that the 7455/7457 processor pinnings they expect are remapped to the 7447/7448's pinnings (I made threads on MacRumors PPC about that, as well). Joybed is aware of his work, and years ago he showed interest in doing exactly that for MDDs and other Macs, as well.
By the way, regardless of processor, if you do break the 2.0GHz barrier somehow, now THAT would be a first for me. The US-interposer-board-guy tried many, many, many times to go beyond 2.0GHz with the 7448s for my MDDs, but he never seemed to get it to work, or to be stable. If it is possible, you will need some really good 7448s I suspect, by winning the silicon lottery big time. Perhaps what you are doing, which is to change the voltage on the minis, is a key to the answer of achieving that.
@Bolkonskij Transplant every PowerMac with 7448 at 2.0GHz!!!!!! I saw once a Reddit post of someone who did that on their System 7 PowerMac, and System 7 still boots!!!! Of course, it works like a super G3 since the AltiVec portion is ignored on anything before Mac OS 9, or to be pedantic anything before that "G4 Edition" (Sawtooth?) of Mac OS 8.6 that has partial AltiVec support.
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As a owner of a standard 1.42 Ghz Mac Mini G4 I tip my hat in respect for your successful modification. I'm far too untalented for hardware mods, but watch with great awe what people are able to come up with. Now all you need to do is to scale up production of these units and sell them on ebay for insane amounts before you retire ;-)
It's not that big of a deal.
Between what the Mini would cost me, plus the processor (which is becoming less and less) and then manufacturing the heatsink, the sales price would not be competitive. Besides the fact that I don't have professional equipment, add the eBay commission and shipping....
:)
@aBc Yeah, there's a thread (multiple threads?) from some years ago they got the 7448 in. I have to dig them up, it's been years I spent any time on MacRumors PPC. Like @indibil said, though, there's firmware patching involved. I forgot if it was the same patching also needed for any Mac OS 9 hardware with a 7448, and/or if there was also flashing of the mini's ROM. IIRC we did have to flash it, I think with a PowerMac10,1 (mini 1.25GHz / 1.42GHz models) ROM modified by dosdude1 so that the partial 7448 support in ROM would be not just partial, but complete. The side-effect of using the ROM, again IIRC, is that things like the serial number of the mini were also changed to dosdude1's mini. And, of course, PowerMac10,2 minis (1.33GHz / 1.5GHz) would be changed to PowerMac10,1's firmware, but that is actually a good thing, since our Mac OS 9 port for the mini works much, much better with the original minis, and that may perhaps improve them to work the same.
In any case, @indibil, don't give up the dream! Be patient with them. I almost "hired" JoyBed to do CPU resoldering for me years ago, as well, the only reason I didn't being the fact that I had to leave Europe along with nearly all my Mac hardware... But he's a cool guy. There's also an US-based guy that does what he does (forgot his name, he made a dual 7448 2.0GHz MDD daughtercard and a dual 7457 1.67GHz MDD one as well for me, as per my directions, which were never able to be shipped to me, and so at least the 7448 one silently went to Action Retro, of all people, instead...). To do it with regular MDD daughtercards, he used an tiny interposer board between the CPU and the socket so that the 7455/7457 processor pinnings they expect are remapped to the 7447/7448's pinnings (I made threads on MacRumors PPC about that, as well). Joybed is aware of his work, and years ago he showed interest in doing exactly that for MDDs and other Macs, as well.
By the way, regardless of processor, if you do break the 2.0GHz barrier somehow, now THAT would be a first for me. The US-interposer-board-guy tried many, many, many times to go beyond 2.0GHz with the 7448s for my MDDs, but he never seemed to get it to work, or to be stable. If it is possible, you will need some really good 7448s I suspect, by winning the silicon lottery big time. Perhaps what you are doing, which is to change the voltage on the minis, is a key to the answer of achieving that.
@Bolkonskij Transplant every PowerMac with 7448 at 2.0GHz!!!!!! I saw once a Reddit post of someone who did that on their System 7 PowerMac, and System 7 still boots!!!! Of course, it works like a super G3 since the AltiVec portion is ignored on anything before Mac OS 9, or to be pedantic anything before that "G4 Edition" (Sawtooth?) of Mac OS 8.6 that has partial AltiVec support.
So OS9 works worse on Mini 10.2? for what reasons?
Whoever manufactures and converts to 7448 is "herd", great guy, he usually helps me with my questions. I have some interposers that he sent to me. I'm really grateful. Without a doubt, I managed to raise the current and voltage limit on my Mini thanks to his advice.
I'm just an amateur, a big head, as they say in Spain "Master of many trades, few benefits." In the early 2000s I played a lot with the G4s, I had a pioneering blog in my country and I did many overclocks and mods. But I have many other hobbies and I change depending on the moment or concerns.
Since I don't speak English very well (I use translate a lot) it is difficult for me to understand how to patch the Mini's firmware to be able to run a 7448. But the main problem is acquiring a 7448, I can't do it, I have tried many times and it never works good. So I am limited to the 7447@1667, of which I still have 3 or 4 units.
I only show these achievements so that everyone can do them, I don't do it for praise or anything. And I put it on my blog because this way I make sure that the information is not lost. In recent years I have tried to collect a lot of information that was on forums, but most of it has been lost, especially photos. My blog is a time capsule, everything is preserved there, and I have the photos hosted.
For now I can't get a 7448? Well, it will be someone else who achieves achievements, it doesn't matter, the important thing is that they are made known and everyone can try.
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So OS9 works worse on Mini 10.2? for what reasons?
Whoever manufactures and converts to 7448 is "herd", great guy, he usually helps me with my questions. I have some interposers that he sent to me. I'm really grateful. Without a doubt, I managed to raise the current and voltage limit on my Mini thanks to his advice.
I'm just an amateur, a big head, as they say in Spain "Master of many trades, few benefits." In the early 2000s I played a lot with the G4s, I had a pioneering blog in my country and I did many overclocks and mods. But I have many other hobbies and I change depending on the moment or concerns.
Since I don't speak English very well (I use translate a lot) it is difficult for me to understand how to patch the Mini's firmware to be able to run a 7448. But the main problem is acquiring a 7448, I can't do it, I have tried many times and it never works good. So I am limited to the 7447@1667, of which I still have 3 or 4 units.
I only show these achievements so that everyone can do them, I don't do it for praise or anything. And I put it on my blog because this way I make sure that the information is not lost. In recent years I have tried to collect a lot of information that was on forums, but most of it has been lost, especially photos. My blog is a time capsule, everything is preserved there, and I have the photos hosted.
For now I can't get a 7448? Well, it will be someone else who achieves achievements, it doesn't matter, the important thing is that they are made known and everyone can try.
I go through the issues found in the "silent upgrade" + our current port of Mac OS 9 for minis in this comment (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg53766#msg53766).
I wonder if "herd" is the same guy, my source wasn't registered at the time we were working together. I would love to get some interposer boards from him, just in case I can somehow get Mac hardware in my current country shipped in, or physically brought in somehow.
For acquiring 7448, you need to pinpoint the exact vendors/users on EBay and the like that reliably source all kinds of processors. I gave my then-current list to my interposer buddy, and told him how to get them for the best prices. I forgot all the details by now, unfortunately, but what I can tell you is that if you keep on looking, and trying different sites/people, you will find them. Most of them come from misc. devices that surprisingly used the 7448, so they got desoldered and sold as is. Much more expensive units usually come from brand-new recently-manufactured sources, since the processor shockingly was still in production back then (circa 2021, no idea now). Preferably go for the processor with the highest binning, for maximum chances of overclocking, as detailed in one of my topics in MacRumors PPC.
If I could do it, you can do it, too. :) I understand your struggle with the language barrier, but trust me, "where there is a will, there is a way". I survived completely alone in Hungary for 9 months without knowing a single drop of Hungarian, and nearly no one there knew the languages I knew, yet I survived that whole period, and was able to communicate, and parse some Hungarian language with time... "To live and to learn", as they say!
Thank you for sharing your achievements! Like you said, it makes it easier for other people to try, and achieve the same. This includes me: I never modded or played around with the MDD anywhere near as much as I originally wanted to, and now I have no physical access to any MDD, but if by any chance I do someday, your findings will be of great help!
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So OS9 works worse on Mini 10.2? for what reasons?
Whoever manufactures and converts to 7448 is "herd", great guy, he usually helps me with my questions. I have some interposers that he sent to me. I'm really grateful. Without a doubt, I managed to raise the current and voltage limit on my Mini thanks to his advice.
I'm just an amateur, a big head, as they say in Spain "Master of many trades, few benefits." In the early 2000s I played a lot with the G4s, I had a pioneering blog in my country and I did many overclocks and mods. But I have many other hobbies and I change depending on the moment or concerns.
Since I don't speak English very well (I use translate a lot) it is difficult for me to understand how to patch the Mini's firmware to be able to run a 7448. But the main problem is acquiring a 7448, I can't do it, I have tried many times and it never works good. So I am limited to the 7447@1667, of which I still have 3 or 4 units.
I only show these achievements so that everyone can do them, I don't do it for praise or anything. And I put it on my blog because this way I make sure that the information is not lost. In recent years I have tried to collect a lot of information that was on forums, but most of it has been lost, especially photos. My blog is a time capsule, everything is preserved there, and I have the photos hosted.
For now I can't get a 7448? Well, it will be someone else who achieves achievements, it doesn't matter, the important thing is that they are made known and everyone can try.
I go through the issues found in the "silent upgrade" + our current port of Mac OS 9 for minis in this comment (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg53766#msg53766).
I wonder if "herd" is the same guy, my source wasn't registered at the time we were working together. I would love to get some interposer boards from him, just in case I can somehow get Mac hardware in my current country shipped in, or physically brought in somehow.
For acquiring 7448, you need to pinpoint the exact vendors/users on EBay and the like that reliably source all kinds of processors. I gave my then-current list to my interposer buddy, and told him how to get them for the best prices. I forgot all the details by now, unfortunately, but what I can tell you is that if you keep on looking, and trying different sites/people, you will find them. Most of them come from misc. devices that surprisingly used the 7448, so they got desoldered and sold as is. Much more expensive units usually come from brand-new recently-manufactured sources, since the processor shockingly was still in production back then (circa 2021, no idea now). Preferably go for the processor with the highest binning, for maximum chances of overclocking, as detailed in one of my topics in MacRumors PPC.
If I could do it, you can do it, too. :) I understand your struggle with the language barrier, but trust me, "where there is a will, there is a way". I survived completely alone in Hungary for 9 months without knowing a single drop of Hungarian, and nearly no one there knew the languages I knew, yet I survived that whole period, and was able to communicate, and parse some Hungarian language with time... "To live and to learn", as they say!
Thank you for sharing your achievements! Like you said, it makes it easier for other people to try, and achieve the same. This includes me: I never modded or played around with the MDD anywhere near as much as I originally wanted to, and now I have no physical access to any MDD, but if by any chance I do someday, your findings will be of great help!
Thanks for your answer. It would be great to know those eBay sellers, because the ones I find don't have stock, they don't ship.
As an addition, I inform you that the Mac Mini 1.5GHz (PowerMac 10.2) is capable of reaching 2GHz without having to change the CPU, just by slightly increasing the voltage and raising the current limit a little, as I did with my other Mini (Adding 330k in parallel to R5 and also to R3). In this link I explain how, but as a novelty, the CORRECT table to adjust the CPU speed, since the one we all used until now is incomplete and can cause instabilities.
https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2024/04/mac-mini-15ghz-modelo-102-2ghz-sin-cpu.html (https://rosysumenteinquieta.blogspot.com/2024/04/mac-mini-15ghz-modelo-102-2ghz-sin-cpu.html)
I appreciate this table and the explanation to herd from https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php (https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php).
.
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Thanks for your answer. It would be great to know those eBay sellers, because the ones I find don't have stock, they don't ship.
I forgot to mention one important thing: almost all of the 7448 sellers are Chinese. Presumably they go to landfills and desolder all kinds of computer parts and hardware, then they sell them up like that. Nearly all of my sources worked like that, back then. So if you see the seller's items/catalog is a HUGE amount of different computer parts, processors in general and the like, and they have 7448s/7457s, you know you found the right guy. I don't remember anymore, but I think I could buy a bulk of five or so 7448s for something like 25 USD or so. Or was it only 3? I forgot, but I ordered a lot, and helped connect my modder guy to them, too, since he was the one with the skills for the job.
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Thanks for your answer. It would be great to know those eBay sellers, because the ones I find don't have stock, they don't ship.
I forgot to mention one important thing: almost all of the 7448 sellers are Chinese. Presumably they go to landfills and desolder all kinds of computer parts and hardware, then they sell them up like that. Nearly all of my sources worked like that, back then. So if you see the seller's items/catalog is a HUGE amount of different computer parts, processors in general and the like, and they have 7448s/7457s, you know you found the right guy. I don't remember anymore, but I think I could buy a bulk of five or so 7448s for something like 25 USD or so. Or was it only 3? I forgot, but I ordered a lot, and helped connect my modder guy to them, too, since he was the one with the skills for the job.
Thank you.
I have searched many providers, but I am not having any luck. Many barely have 7447, and none have 7448. I think I have a better chance of winning the lottery than finding a 7448 :)