Mac OS 9 Lives

General => HELP BOARD ! Installing & Troubleshooting the Classic Mac OS => Topic started by: Mat on June 05, 2015, 05:27:55 PM

Title: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: Mat on June 05, 2015, 05:27:55 PM
Here is a list of programs that can use (without the help of Mac OS 9) both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor Mac:

3ivx
Absoft Pro Fortran
Adobe AfterFX
Adobe GoLive
Adobe Illustrator
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Premiere
Alias Maya
Apple DVD Studio Pro
Apple Final Cut Pro
Apple Quicktime
Apple iDVD
Apple iMovie
Apple iTunes
Avid Media Composer
Deneba Canvas
Discreet Cleaner
Discreet Combustion
EIAS Universe 5.0
Emagic Logic Audio (only Plugins)
Eovia Carrara Studio
Filemaker Pro
Heuris MPEG Power Professional
id Software Quake 3
MOTU Digital Performer
Macromedia Dreamweaver
Macromedia Fireworks
Macromedia Flash
Macromedia Freehand
Maxon Cinema 4D
Metrowerks CodeWarrior
Microsoft Virtual PC
Newtek Lightwave
Omnigroup Giants: Citizen Kabuto
Pinnacle Cinewave (incl. DV100)
Propellerhead Reason
Roxio Toast
Sorenson Video Codec
SoundJam MP
Steinberg Cubase VST/32 5.1
Steinberg Nuendo
Toast Video CD
Toon Boom Studio
U&I Artmatic
U&I V-Track
Wolfram Mathematica

I found most of the list online at Macwelt, and added some further programs. Please feel free to add additional applications you know that use both CPUs under Mac OS 9.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 05, 2015, 08:16:23 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: IIO on June 06, 2015, 12:39:42 PM
Steinberg Nuendo
u&i V-Track
u&i Artmatic

Logic Audio afaik can only run the plug-ins in the seocnd processor (but thats better than nothing)
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: IIO on June 06, 2015, 01:03:24 PM
Quake 3   (fully supports it, but does not run any faster for that matter)
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Mat on June 06, 2015, 01:07:44 PM
Updated the list. Thanks for the contribution. Perhaps we can become somehow "complete" with this list?
Yes, I read a swell that some other programs do not work really faster wirh 2 CPUs. But some shall get an speed improvement to 180%.

For me it is quite interresting, I diddn´t know that so many professional applications support two CPUs. That makes the Dualmacs immediatly more interresting for me.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: IIO on June 06, 2015, 01:19:34 PM
yeah well, the 180% faster is probably really only true for some, mainly cubase, performer, and photoshop and after effects.

the latter two only while rendering, since many things you do in photoshop are a matter of in/out.

quicktime and quicktime based apps will also benefit largely from dual CPU.

quake and some other quake 3 eninge based games might even run slower as i heard.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Mat on June 11, 2015, 11:32:23 PM
I found an further interresting project with several programs. The "AppleSeed" software for clusterig and parallelization of Macs. It even works with Mac OS 8.5 . It seems to take care of Multiprocessors and later Multicores as Altivec and Carbon.

http://exodus.physics.ucla.edu/appleseed/appleseed9.html

Very interresting is their "Multiprocessing Development Page":
http://exodus.physics.ucla.edu/appleseed/dev/multiprocessing8.html

The "Power Fractal Software" is their Demo- and Measuring application, available for Mac OS 8.5 onwards:
http://daugerresearch.com/fractals/powerfractal.shtml

Sadly I cannot update the list above, else "AppleSeed" and "Power Fractal" should be added.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: MacTron on June 12, 2015, 09:28:39 AM
This is another extensive list that include Altivec support info:
Company Application Multi-Processor AltiVec
Support Support
Apple AppleWorks no no
DVD Player yes yes
DVD Studio Pro yes yes
Video Player no no
Disk Burn yes yes
FinalCut Pro yes yes
iMovie 2 yes yes
iTunes yes yes
Mac OS 7-8 limited no
Mac OS 9 asymetric yes
Mac OS X symetric yes
Quicktime 4-5 yes yes
WebObjects yes yes
Adobe After Effects yes yes
Canoma ? planned
Illustrator 9 planned yes
Image Ready yes yes
Pagemaker no no
GoLive no no
Premiere 6 yes yes
Photoshop 5.5-6 yes yes
Absoft Pro Fortran yes yes
Active Concepts Funnel Web yes yes
Adrenaline Charts Pro 1.5 ? yes
Alias|Wavefront Maya yes yes
Ambrosia SnapzPro ? yes
Artel Boris Series (all) yes yes
Asarte DVDirector yes yes
M.pack 3.5.1 yes yes
(all products) yes
Avid Media Composer yes no
Symphony yes planned
Bitheadz Unity yes yes
Blueworld Lasso Server yes planned
Lasso Studio no no
Buena Software Effects Pack yes yes
AltiVec Effect yes yes
(more) yes yes
Cassady & Greene SoundJam MP Plus yes yes
Connectix VirtualPC 4 no yes
Corel Bryce 3D yes planned
Draw ? ?
Paint ? ?
Curious Labs Poser planned yes
DCES RC-5 yes yes
Deneba Canvas planned yes
DenebaCAD planned planned
Digital Origin EditDV yes yes
Discreet Logic Combustion yes yes
Electric Rain Swift 3D yes yes
Emagic Logic Audio ? yes
Filemaker Filemaker Pro yes yes
Heuris MPEG Power Pro yes yes
id software Quake planned planned
iPIX iPIX Viewer ? yes
Linker Systems Animation Stand ? yes
Macromedia Dreamweaver no no
Freehand no no
Fireworks planned yes
Flash 4 planned yes
Maxon Cinema 4DXL 6 yes yes
Cinema 4D GO 5 yes ?
Body Paint 3D yes yes
Media 100 Media Cleaner Pro yes yes
CineStream yes yes
MetaCreations Cararra yes ?
Ray Dream Studio 5 yes ?
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: MacTron on June 12, 2015, 09:53:12 AM
#2
Metrowerks CodeWarrior 5 yes yes
Microsoft Internet Explorer no yes
Office no no
MOTU AltiVerb yes yes
Digital Performer yes yes
Netscape Navigator no no
Communicator 4 no no
Communicator 6 yes yes
Onadime Composer ? yes
Propellerhead Reason yes yes
Proteron N2MP3 ? yes
NewTek LightWave 3D yes ?
Numerical Design NetImmerse 3D ? yes
Quadmation PlayerPRO ? yes
Qbeo PhotoGenetics 2 yes yes
VideoGenetics 1 yes yes
Qdesign Music Codec 2.1 yes yes
Quark Xpress planned planned
QuarkWrapture ? ?
SETI@Home SETI@Home no no
Sorrenson Sorrenson Video yes yes
StarNine WebStar 4.2 yes yes
Steinberg Cubase VST yes yes
Strata Studio 3D Pro yes yes
Terran Media Cleaner Pro yes yes
Terra Soft Solutions Yellow Dog Linux yes yes
Toon Boom Toon Boom Studio yes yes
Unsanity Echo ? yes
U&I Software Videodelic ? yes
Video Script Video Script Pro yes yes
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: MacTron on June 12, 2015, 09:56:36 AM
But there is a big problem:
Only half dozen of this apps have actually some speed improvement.
Typically:
Photoshop, SoundJam/iTunes, Cinema 4D, Cubase VST, and may be a couple more ...

... and the dual Macs (specially the MDDs) ALWAYS have double heat inside that reduce the lifespan of most components, especially Power Sources and Video Cards.
So, we always have avoid to have valuable AGP and PCI cards inside a Dual G4.
... unless we live in the polar regions ... LOL
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: supernova777 on June 12, 2015, 02:18:25 PM
so basically.. its not worth it .. to have a over heated system that supports dual processor when really in real world performance the difference was not that much improved.. or worth the risk of damaging hard drives + peripherals due to the increased heat

but still a very informative post from mat + mactron.
thanks for this info guys
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: DieHard on June 12, 2015, 05:01:40 PM
Great Thread guys :)

Yes, in an OS X or dual boot environment, the dual CPU is the way to go.

In a pure OS 9 environment, there are situations where a user may use one of the supported dual CPU Apps. most of the time, so it is obviously a great advantage to go Dual.

However, in the real world, I found found that some apps run un-stable under OS 9 with Dual CPU support (even if they claim to work properly)... so unfortunately, if I need a specific application that does not support a dual config. and actually runs less stable, then it ruins it for the rest of the list :(

So Conclusion... for me, a single fast CPU under OS9... hence an Xserve G4 1.33 single in an MDD
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: MacTron on June 14, 2015, 01:13:14 PM
Great Thread guys :)
Thank You.

Quote
Yes, in an OS X or dual boot environment, the dual CPU is the way to go.

Yes, it is, in symmetric multiprocessing systems like those based on Linux/Unix or NT kernels -to name a few- running on high end G5s, X86s or ARMs. But not in a G4, because the system bus can serve well only one CPU, not two, even in the "fast" 166 MHz MDDs. That's why -between other causes- the dual CPU software only show some speed enhancement in PURE CPU task, and those task are very unusual.

Quote
In a pure OS 9 environment, there are situations where a user may use one of the supported dual CPU Apps. most of the time, so it is obviously a great advantage to go Dual.
Of course, that's the best idea. If your work heavily rely on task that have a really enhancement in dual CPU, thats the way to go.

I don't have the data now. But you can enjoy an incredible 80% or 90% speed increase with dual CPU encoding MP3 with SoundJam/iTunes, encoding MPEG2 with Apple MPEG2 encoder, or even in Cubase in some workflows, not mine :( 

But in general, a fast ( or overclocked) single is the way to go in the "G4 world", IMHO
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: IIO on June 14, 2015, 09:35:46 PM
But there is a big problem:
Only half dozen of this apps have actually some speed improvement.
Typically:
Photoshop, SoundJam/iTunes, Cinema 4D, Cubase VST, and may be a couple more ...

photoshop and cubase are probably the most used programs on MacOS9 ... back in the days as well as today.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 06, 2015, 02:34:16 PM
RTCW might use 2 CPUs as well, and certainly takes advantage of Altivec.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Mat on July 07, 2015, 02:46:26 AM
RTCW might use 2 CPUs as well, and certainly takes advantage of Altivec.
You are talking about Wolfenstein from 2001?
Was there an Mac OS 9 version at all?
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: devils_advisor on July 07, 2015, 04:20:19 AM
Oh yes there is. Go over to mac garden
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 07, 2015, 05:47:06 AM
RTCW might use 2 CPUs as well, and certainly takes advantage of Altivec.
You are talking about Wolfenstein from 2001?
Was there an Mac OS 9 version at all?
The same version works both on Mac OS 9 and OS X.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Mat on July 08, 2015, 02:34:43 PM
Oh yes there is. Go over to mac garden
Indeed! So filipe and you are responsible that I waste all my spare time now with hunting Nazi-Zombies, ... ;-p (Single CPU!)
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 08, 2015, 05:55:31 PM
So it uses only one core, but I noticed a huge performance gain when I put a G4 from the Yikes! on my B&W, so it must be because of the Altivec.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Mat on July 09, 2015, 12:33:14 AM
So it uses only one core, but I noticed a huge performance gain when I put a G4 from the Yikes! on my B&W, so it must be because of the Altivec.
No no, it uses both CPUs, as it is based on Quake III engine. I am just playing it the last two days with a Single-Core ;)
Interresting that you had a huge performance gain, but IIO said above that Quake doesn´t run faster with a Dual CPU system.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: filipetolhuizen on July 09, 2015, 07:54:44 AM
So it uses only one core, but I noticed a huge performance gain when I put a G4 from the Yikes! on my B&W, so it must be because of the Altivec.
No no, it uses both CPUs, as it is based on Quake III engine. I am just playing it the last two days with a Single-Core ;)
Interresting that you had a huge performance gain, but IIO said above that Quake doesn´t run faster with a Dualcore.
I don't have a dualcore. The performance gain was when I replaced the G3 with the G4.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Mat on July 09, 2015, 12:27:37 PM
I don't have a dualcore. The performance gain was when I replaced the G3 with the G4.
I see. Sorry for "just scanning" and not reading your previous post carefully.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: IIO on July 13, 2015, 01:40:05 PM
RTCW might use 2 CPUs as well, and certainly takes advantage of Altivec.

yes, but quake engine in general doesnt see any speed benefit from it. :)
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Graveyard on July 15, 2015, 01:23:21 AM
Jesus Chrysler people!!!! Dual Core is ONE THING, Dual Processor is ANOTHER TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING! You either reffer to it as you should, or give it a rest! If someone came to visit this forum just now and laid an eye on this thread especially on the few last posts, he'd immediately leave under the impression that most people here talk out of their asses and can't make the difference between two different technologies...
I've said it before and i'll say it again. English is not my native language, but i don't go around calling FireWire fireware, or even worse as i've seen in other places with tons of english speaking people, calling it firmware or some stupid crap like that. Get your facts straight! Read a little bit and then post like crazy. Sorry, but i couldn't help myself...

PS: Dual or Multi Core technology is used nowadays in modern systems. But multi chip systems can have multiple multi core CPUs. Have a look at the Mac Pro for instance. Get it?
And by the way, there have NEVER EVER BEEN ANY "dual core" PowerMac G4 systems. Dual CPUs, sure! The first and last PPC DUAL CORE CPUs ever used in Macs were in the PowerMac G5.
 
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Mat on July 15, 2015, 01:11:32 PM
Jesus Chrysler people!!!! Dual Core is ONE THING, Dual Processor is ANOTHER TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING!
Don´t be that hard with us. I belive we all know that there are no "Dualcores" for  Mac OS 9. As you can read above wa all used "Dualprocessor", "2 CPUS" and such terms. Later it evolved from my try to make a joke with "Singlecore" (what still is correct) and then I used once the wrong term Dualcore.
But I am absolutely sure that we all know that there are just Dualprocessor Macs around for 9, and no Dualcores. Of course you are right and we should be a bit more careful about using the right terms.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: Graveyard on July 15, 2015, 02:44:39 PM
I am the kind of guy that takes a joke, and a pun! I don't mean to offend anyone, damn, that's the last thing i wanna do. My post was meant both as a joke and as a serious thing. You took it more than well if i may say :P Thank you for replying, but let us get back to the topic, shall we? :P
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs
Post by: devils_advisor on July 15, 2015, 05:09:19 PM
Yes the topic was g4 dualcore  ;D
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: DieHard on July 15, 2015, 06:22:14 PM
You guys are all drinking too much Coffee  ;)
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: supernova777 on July 16, 2015, 04:47:47 AM
time to switch to water + lemon  ;D
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: Mat on July 16, 2015, 01:03:19 PM
BTW., making your Mac OS 9 Dualcore at least an Hexacore up to an 26x-Core or 58x-Core with a Magma Expansion Box is the Total Impact Card! ;-p

http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/totalimpact/totalpower_g3/totalpower_g3_400.html

To be honest, I have no informations about realworld speed of such Multiprocessorcards cards. The last one seems to be the 4 x 500MHz G4 card, and I read that a usual Magma PCI expansion has not enough power for more than 4 boards, ...

Total Impact stated that 8 cards could be used together with the entire memory mapped into the Linux-Kernel back than.
For Mac OS 8 to 9 they replaced the Mac MP library with an own one, ... as said, I´ve never read anything about real computing power and especially about more than 1 card inside a Mac.

Here is another short info:
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/11875/pci-uitbreidingskaart-met-4-powerpc-g3-g4-cpus.html

One 4 x 500MHz G4 was 6300$ in 2001 ;)
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: IIO on July 16, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
btw graveyard, while you are on interpretational sovereignty for terminologies you should include apple inc. into your criticism.

they keep calling their computers "8 core" while in fact the have never been  that.

Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: filipetolhuizen on August 11, 2015, 05:01:42 PM
Talking about dual cores and dual CPUs, has anyone ever seen the ultra rare dual zif bay? I could find something about it some time ago, but now I can't seem to find anything about it anymore.
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: Mat on December 16, 2015, 04:41:49 PM
Talking about dual cores and dual CPUs, has anyone ever seen the ultra rare dual zif bay? I could find something about it some time ago, but now I can't seem to find anything about it anymore.
Are you talking about the PCI Macs or Clones like the 9500/9600 or Umax Pulsar (S900) with 2 604(e) CPU slots/cards?
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on December 16, 2015, 08:12:53 PM
No, there is a rare Joesomething dual ZIF like for G3B&W and G4 PCI
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: Mat on December 17, 2015, 08:37:20 AM
Ups, I confused the PCI Macs Processor Card Slot with the ZIF. If i wouldn´t use in both slots Sonnet G4 Cards, … ;)
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: pixitha on January 20, 2022, 02:48:04 PM
Updating the dead links for Exodus from UCLA:

https://web.archive.org/web/20121107010154/http://exodus.physics.ucla.edu/appleseed/appleseed9.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20100719035223/http://exodus.physics.ucla.edu/appleseed/dev/multiprocessing8.html
Title: Re: Programs that use both CPUs of a G4 Dual Processor PPC
Post by: smilesdavis on February 03, 2023, 12:47:55 PM
ApplePCI - Apple Multiprocessor and G4 PowerBook Expansion Chassis Fix

Digidesign Pro Tools: there was a Dual Processor OS 9 Fix and a Apple Multiprocessor and G4 PowerBook Expansion Chassis Fix

http://archive.digidesign.com/download/mp/

Quote
Apple Multiprocessor and G4 PowerBook Expansion Chassis Fix

This download is for anyone wishing to use Pro Tools on either:

Multiprocessor Apple G4 computers

Titanium Powerbook model 550 or higher with Magma CB2S or other Magma PowerBook Expansion Chassis with an ATTO SCSI card. See the MAGMA MAC Cardbus Expansion FAQ for Magma's information on the new Apple Titanium SCSI Fix and ProTools (including HD) testing.

Without this download:

Users with multiprocessor systems may experience -6042 errors unless they remove the Multiprocessor folder from their extensions folder, thus disabling the second processor.

Users of Titanium Powerbooks model 550 or higher are unable to use a Magma CB2S or other Magma PowerBook Expansion Chassis with an ATTO SCSI card for their Pro Tools hardware.

Other users will experience no benefit from this download and should not use it.

Download Includes:

ApplePCI (system extension)

ApplePCI Read Me (this document)