Mac OS 9 Lives

Classic Mac OS Hardware => Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware => Topic started by: DieHard on July 13, 2017, 07:56:36 PM

Title: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: DieHard on July 13, 2017, 07:56:36 PM
The Absolute Best Laptop that will Boot natively to Mac OS 9.2.2
Apple PowerBook G4 1.0 Ghz 17" Aluminum
Model M8793LL/A - PowerBook5,1 - A1013

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PowerBook_G4_17.jpg)

From wikipedia.org... PROVED FALSE IN 2017
Quote
The 1 GHz 15" version of the Titanium PowerBook G4 is the last, and fastest, PowerBook which could natively run Mac OS 9 (version 9.2.2)
HAHAHA.... NOT !  The 17" Aluminum now wins hands down 14 Years Later

OK... so first we take notice to critical info on the Hardware...

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_1.0_17.html (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_1.0_17.html)
Quote
1) The PowerBook G4/1.0 17" (Al) features a 1.0 GHz PowerPC 7455 (G4) processor with the AltiVec "Velocity Engine" vector processing unit, 256k on chip level 2 cache, and 1.0 MB level 3 cache

2) NVIDIA GeForce4 440 graphics with 64 MB of DDR SDRAM in an attractive aluminum alloy case with a 17" widescreen TFT display (1440x900 resolution)

3) System Bus Speed: 167 MHz, Cache Bus Speed: 1.0 GHz (Built-in) 256 L2, 1 MB L3

4) PC2700 DDR SDRAM (Min. RAM Speed: 333 MHz), 2 GB Max

So in Theory, and as previously reported by mrhappy (BB for short), this baby boots with the modified iMic ROM natively to Mac OS 9.2.2 and has some VERY Compatible and lightning fast Mac OS 9 hardware.  In fact, there are only 2 PowerBook G4 Aluminum models with possible full graphics support in Mac OS 9.2.2; the Apple PowerBook G4 867 12" with GeForce4 420 Go (4X AGP) and the PowerBook G4 1.0 Ghz 17" Aluminum with NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go (4X AGP). We know the models with the ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (4X AGP) will NOT give us full graphics support in Mac OS 9.

So first we buy up 3 on ebay (Approx $60 each, plus $20 Shipping each) so we have enough units to verify results from user mrhappy and also dive a little deeper.

Of course we take out an OWC Legacy SSD 120GB from stock and install it into the PB G4 17 because we hate slow booting G4s

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/powerbook-g4-aluminum (https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/powerbook-g4-aluminum)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PBG4OWC.jpg)

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Disclaimer: Pics done with iPhone... sorry :(

So we put our first victim in FW (FireWire) target mode connect it to a working TI Powerbook G4, and run the famous "Diehard Instant DAW" Apple recovery (available right here from our site); and in less that 10 minutes we have a restored PowerBook G4 with an entire recording studio DAW ready to record music with...

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic1.jpg)

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But alas it is NOT ready yet, we then copy (before rebooting) the famous iMic ROM into the new system folder

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic2.jpg)

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OK ready to Boot !  I am so excited I can barely take it... WTF, what is this crap.... is this error real or an anomaly from booting to OS 9 ?

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic3.jpg)

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So, We now boot to an external FW hard drive that has OS X and see about the cache memory, remember this is NOT the main system memory, but memory on the logic board that cannot be changed by the user.

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic5.jpg)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic4.jpg)

Hmmm.... no error pop up, but we notice NO L3 Cache is listed (even in OS X)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic6.jpg)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic7.jpg)

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So ebay strikes again... we run a diags and indeed the cache fails diagnostics and we remove the SSD and put it in Unit 2.  Unit 1 boots to OS9, but the bad cache will slow down the DAW speed tests I want to do later :(

Ahh... Unit 2

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic8.jpg)

Now to Boot...

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic9.jpg)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic10.jpg)

What, another error...Nope.
I expected to see this message and it is not really an error at all :)
User mrhappy said this would pop up... probably the cardbus or something that OS 9 does not recognize. 
After you clear the message, everything runs perfectly...  including graphics acceleration !

Also, the reported sound issue has been verified;  the internal speakers only work if you plug a 1/8" jack in the audio out port. 
FW400 works (I will check FW800 soon).

This unit is Much faster than my TI 1 Ghz in Cubase ! :)

OK, so to summarize:
We have certified that the Apple PowerBook G4 1.0 17" (Identifiers: 17-Inch - M8793LL/A - PowerBook5,1 - A1013)
Boots and runs OS 9 perfectly (using the iMic ROM), no other modifications or open firmware commands are needed !

Reported Notes:
1) "Unsupported USB" error initially on Boot (easily cleared)
2) Internal Speakers will only work if 1/8" adapter or external speaker jack is plugged into headphone jack and then BOTH speakers and Line out work simultaneously
3) On shutdown only... strange LCD flashing and graphic patterns
4) Both USBs Work 100%
5) FW800 works like a FW400 Port, FW400 is "dead"
6) nVidia Graphic Acceleration Works !
7) Ethernet Works ! (see fix)
8) Cardbus Appears "dead"
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on July 13, 2017, 10:15:08 PM
awesome, thanks for sharing.

so what about my 1,67 aluminium?
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: DieHard on July 13, 2017, 10:28:58 PM
I am guessing, for your unit, the ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (4X AGP) is a real problem, also the 7447a will need OF patch... it also has .5MB cache... so the G4 1.0 17" is by far an easier, almost as fast overall (with slower CPU and more cache); and faster graphics (in OS 9) make it a better choice
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on July 13, 2017, 10:38:11 PM
so, similar issue as with the minis :/
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on July 17, 2017, 08:33:51 AM
how easy is it to remove the monitor? and if you do, how can you control operation mode?
did you check connecting an external monitor? (yeah i know the latter most likely works..)
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on July 17, 2017, 08:48:35 AM
i am thinking of running machines like that headless (think "synthesizer", "effect", "render cluster")

maybe there is a way how to get rid of the GPU components, by deregistering it somehow? or by building a little fake driver which doesnt really do anything eycept pretending it would work?

as we know OS9 wont boot correctly when the GPU isnt supported. but maybe one can deinstall/destroy/ignore it totally and then the OS could boot and operate.

in these days i am playing through various scenarios where i am using Xserves and minis as a standalone-something in both, OSX and OS9.

the two main problems with that are:

 - how to set the accounts for the remote software (in firewire mode)

 - OR: how to get at aleast one useful screen resolution in order to be at least partially able to remote the machine.

 - the possible need of an OSX-reinstall (for OS9-only i could use clone images like you do)

these aluminium powerbooks would be just perfect to rip off the mainboards and put 8 of them in a big rackmount enclosure for the ultimative OS9 server farm.



Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: FdB on July 23, 2017, 11:04:54 PM
Oh ya, sure. (Just my Luck.) Recently acquired a near-immaculate Aluminum 5,5 PowerBook G4 17" 1.5GHz (No L3 cache), 2GB RAM. It's really pretty... but so what. And yup, ATI Mobility Radeon 9700. No OS 9... so what indeed is the point of living?

Time to get the cocoanut halves and horsey gallop, in search of a shrubbery. (Enveloped in envy.)
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on July 24, 2017, 09:38:06 PM
you can use it for something which is OSX PPC exclusive. that is not much... but if you try hard... and the G4 minis and powerbooks have a built-in audio IO.

Spear? Artmatic Voyager? Powercore Firewire with Noveltech Character? (Wolfenstein ET? ;))

Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: FdB on July 24, 2017, 10:11:29 PM
Gosh IIO, you've saved me. (Gets down off chair, removes noose from around neck.) IT DOES HAVE WOLFENSTEIN!
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on July 24, 2017, 10:34:56 PM
(https://img.memecdn.com/first-world-problems-right-here-amp-lt_c_3249795.jpg)
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Aurora on August 05, 2017, 03:55:40 PM
I also have one of those beauties and it runs Mac OS 9.2.2 really well!

As a word of advice, you have to first restore your hacked OS9 image to a USB pendrive and format the internal drive from there in order to be able to format drives that are larger than 128GB.

I don't get the USB message on my PowerBook but I have noticed that neither AirPort Extreme (it shouldn't work anyway) or Ethernet are working. Mac OS 9 detects that there's Ethernet connected but you can't access anything on the internet :/ (I'm sure the Ethernet port works as it functions fine on OS X 10.5).

Just wondering, have you found a way to only use external headphones while not having sound being blurted out from the internal speakers too? The best workaround I've found is to lower the volume of the speakers/earphones I use so that I can hear audio from my earphones but not the speakers.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on August 05, 2017, 06:45:05 PM
no ethernet would be bad news, since its required for some copy protection schemes and OSC.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: MacOS Plus on August 05, 2017, 07:22:54 PM
  The "Unknown" USB device, if present, would most likely be Bluetooth, as this is the same error that appears on the G4 FW800 if the bluetooth module is present.  Internally it is a USB device on a dedicated port.  If the module is disconnected the error goes away.

  I'd be interested in buying one of these laptops if the remaining compatibility issue can be sorted out regarding the audio (and the ethernet if that's true).  Has anyone tried this machine with a Cardbus-to-PCI expander?
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Aurora on August 06, 2017, 03:54:19 AM
I'm ready to do any testing required if someone comes up with a fix for audio/ethernet.

I'll post a picture with what I get with an Ethernet cable attached. OS9 knows there's an Ethernet cable connected but it doesn't do more than that. If you have any suggestions regarding Ethernet, I'll be happy to try them out :)

(Quite mind-blowing how well it works on OS 9.2 and OS X 10.5.8 - on OS X 10.5.8 you could watch 360p YouTube with LWK without any frame drops)

I'm using the Well-tampered with version of 2013 of OS 9.2.2 btw.

EDIT: It also complains about missing software when going to sleep.

My Internet setup works just fine with OS 9.0.4 (or is it 9.1/9.2?) on my PowerMac G4 Sawtooth.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: DieHard on August 11, 2017, 02:25:18 PM
Performance/Hardware Test (Updates 08/11/2017)

1) OK... as stated by other members, strange Ethernet TCP/IP Issues (No Internet, No Intranet)

Confirmed, Ethernet will show "linked" when TCP/IP is set to DHCP or manual, but local network cannot ping and internet is unreachable

*** UPDATE: Ethernet WORKS!!!!... Go to "Chooser" Make "AppleTalk" Active then Inactive... this stump starts the TCP/IP and it then works 100%... Local Ping Works and Insternet Browsers are all OK

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/EthernetA.jpg)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/Ethernet1.jpg)

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2) Firewire 400/800 Test...

FW800 Port work 100% as a FW400 Port

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/FW800.jpg)

FW400 Port is "Dead" and External HD does not show up at all

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/FW400.jpg)


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3) QuickBench Test Results

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/QuickBench.jpg)

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4) CineBench Graphics Acceleration Test Results

CINEBENCH 2003 v1
****************************************************
Number of CPUs   : 1

Rendering (Single   CPU): 92 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): --- CB-CPU

Shading (CINEMA 4D)                : 120 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 374 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 505 CB-GFX (Impressive)

OpenGL Speedup: 4.21
****************************************************

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/Cinebench.jpg)

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5) USB Ports

Work Flawlessly with no issues

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6) Internal Speakers

No Sound unless 1/8" jack is plugged in then BOTH internal Speakers and Line out work simultaneously
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on August 12, 2017, 02:03:48 PM
*** UPDATE: Ethernet WORKS!!!!... Go to "Chooser" Make "AppleTalk" Active then Inactive... this stump starts the TCP/IP and it then works 100%... Local Ping Works and Insternet Browsers are all OK

great. :)

this could eventually be included in the next OS release, isnt it? halfautomatic, by an applescript placed on the desktop.

...applescript/apple events anyone?

(it will remain in a working condition after a reboot, right? maybe it is enough to place a modified prefs file for appletalk or networking?)
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: MacOS Plus on August 12, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
Wow, that's weird.  Nice to know it works though.  Does this only have to be done the first time or on every boot?
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: DieHard on August 12, 2017, 02:46:32 PM
No upon Restart it is "Dead" again :(

Also Stuck at 10mb and Half Duplex" very weird when it works.

CardSlot (Cardbus) also appears to be "Dead"
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: MacOS Plus on August 12, 2017, 05:22:45 PM
Lack of CardBus support would kinda kill my interest in this model.  I've made extensive use of CardBus in my TiBooks, including PCI expansion.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Rin Elyran on August 23, 2017, 04:57:06 PM
Just out of curiosity, I'll see if I can do this with my 15" aluminum PowerBook G4, model A1106, as I have an 8 GB partition with 10.4.11 installed on it that I'm willing to sacrifice. If it doesn't work, no big deal.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Aurora on August 23, 2017, 05:19:39 PM
Don't forget that you need to have OS 9 drivers installed on your HDD before doing anything. Also, I have my doubts if it'll work on your machine and even if it does, you'll get no graphics acceleration
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: johnie89 on September 09, 2017, 02:49:53 PM
After you clear the message, everything runs perfectly...  including graphics acceleration !

I'm having an issue where it will only display 256 colours - even though earlier I had 1 million when running the Mac OS 9.2.2 Easy Install for Unsupported G4s - ISO CD Image.

Also, sleep isn't working.  I'm running this on the same model as used in the guide (17" G4 5,1)

Anyone have any ideas?
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on September 11, 2017, 10:06:00 AM
for all things sleep you might want to downgrade to the orginal powerbook sleep controlpanel, as it differs. you might also want to add the battery controlpanel and remove dual processing.

i recently had drag and drop not working on a QS after installing our "universal" with imic ROM (and appletalk was turned on once, but that might have been caused by a different language/prefs file.)

will see what up with that.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Syntho on September 30, 2017, 02:26:28 AM
I mistakenly bought an 867 Aluminum Powerbook G4 instead of the Ti   :'(

Has anyone gotten the wireless working on it? Does OS9 even work with wireless? If I can't get that working, I'm screwed. Having wireless in OS9 was the entire point of buying the thing. I hate losing money.

EDIT: the curse of the G4 will never end, I swear. DH knows about the hell I went through a few years back trying to get a 1.25ghz MDD to work. I spent weeks on it and it was always unstable no matter what. My fingers and knuckles were so bloody from tearing shit out of it that it was unforgivable. I eventually trashed it and bought another, exact duplicate off Ebay, and guess what? It was DOA and wouldn't even power up. I got so sick of it that I swore off G4s and started using 9600s (which have never once failed me to this day!).

Ok, so I have this other cheap 867 G4 QS I bought last year to see if my curse was over. Well, I just booted it up and it's got a time/network error so it probably needs a new battery, it says that there's some kind of weird memory issue going when OS9 starts up, sometimes it makes weird beeping and flashing, the freakin' startup chime isn't a chime half the time and is nothing but a long burst of nasty white noise/distortion, and sometimes it just hangs and won't boot up at all.

....and now I have a POS Aluminum Powerbook that I'm not even gonna use because the wireless won't work in it among other things.

Money down the drain constantly, and nothing but headaches on ALL G4 machines. It never ends!

 >:( >:( >:(

PS: I do have a dual cpu QS machine that DH gave me, but I need to try it. If I boot it up and it has problems too, I'm probably going to kill myself. I'd rather an OS9 laptop more than anything right now but funds are running low. And so is my luck and tolerance.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: madalynmcworm on September 30, 2017, 06:36:40 AM
I mistakenly bought an 867 Aluminum Powerbook G4 instead of the Ti   :'(

Has anyone gotten the wireless working on it? Does OS9 even work with wireless? If I can't get that working, I'm screwed. Having wireless in OS9 was the entire point of buying the thing. I hate losing money.

EDIT: the curse of the G4 will never end, I swear. DH knows about the hell I went through a few years back trying to get a 1.25ghz MDD to work. I spent weeks on it and it was always unstable no matter what. My fingers and knuckles were so bloody from tearing shit out of it that it was unforgivable. I eventually trashed it and bought another, exact duplicate off Ebay, and guess what? It was DOA and wouldn't even power up. I got so sick of it that I swore off G4s and started using 9600s (which have never once failed me to this day!).

Ok, so I have this other cheap 867 G4 QS I bought last year to see if my curse was over. Well, I just booted it up and it's got a time/network error so it probably needs a new battery, it says that there's some kind of weird memory issue going when OS9 starts up, sometimes it makes weird beeping and flashing, the freakin' startup chime isn't a chime half the time and is nothing but a long burst of nasty white noise/distortion, and sometimes it just hangs and won't boot up at all.

....and now I have a POS Aluminum Powerbook that I'm not even gonna use because the wireless won't work in it among other things.

Money down the drain constantly, and nothing but headaches on ALL G4 machines. It never ends!

 >:( >:( >:(

PS: I do have a dual cpu QS machine that DH gave me, but I need to try it. If I boot it up and it has problems too, I'm probably going to kill myself. I'd rather an OS9 laptop more than anything right now but funds are running low. And so is my luck and tolerance.

I found the wireless only works in WEP mode. Not sure where you are located, but I purchased a linksys AP from a thrift store for $6, put it in 'B' only mode, and turned on WEP encryption (which sucks, but it is better than just open network).

Alternatively, there are many usb powered "travel routers". If you read the modes on them, some allow you to use the wired connection as your ethernet connection and they make the wifi connection for you.

Good luck!
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: GaryN on September 30, 2017, 03:52:49 PM
EDIT: the curse of the G4 will never end, I swear. DH knows about the hell I went through a few years back trying to get a 1.25ghz MDD to work. I spent weeks on it and it was always unstable no matter what. My fingers and knuckles were so bloody from tearing shit out of it that it was unforgivable.

…and here I am, happily using my MDD which, except for a couple of glitches which were eventually proven to be software problems, starts up every time, and hasn't crashed or panic-ed since like, forever.

I eventually trashed it and bought another, exact duplicate off Ebay, and guess what? It was DOA and wouldn't even power up.

You were lucky. Most of the big desktop computers bought on ebay arrive smashed to bits.

I mistakenly bought an 867 Aluminum Powerbook G4 instead of the Ti   :'(
Has anyone gotten the wireless working on it? Does OS9 even work with wireless? If I can't get that working, I'm screwed. Having wireless in OS9 was the entire point of buying the thing. I hate losing money.

OS9 wireless is WEP only. So, yes it works and yes it's a pain in the ass to set up if you have newer equipment on the same router. Will it work on the 867 Pbook? Maybe…probably…not… Sure, if you trade it for a Ti…
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: macStuff on October 03, 2017, 03:57:15 PM
I mistakenly bought an 867 Aluminum Powerbook G4 instead of the Ti   :'(

Has anyone gotten the wireless working on it? Does OS9 even work with wireless? If I can't get that working, I'm screwed. Having wireless in OS9 was the entire point of buying the thing. I hate losing money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Wireless-WiFi-Network-Dongle-Bridge-RJ45-Ethernet-Port-2-4GHz-Adapter-Cable-/382019136249?epid=1100056572&hash=item58f21d6af9:g:Us4AAOSwB-1Y2Usx
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: mrhappy on October 06, 2017, 06:21:25 AM

CardSlot (Cardbus) also appears to be "Dead"

That's kind of a drag... I bought a fancy Cardbus interface to use in this machine but was unable to get it working... I guess that explains it! Plan 'B' I guess! ;D
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: FdB on October 06, 2017, 06:58:15 AM
I've got two wifi cards that worked in my G3 Lombard and Gary's absolutely correct... both slow, and a total pain in the arse  to set up and use. So much so, that I don't use either one anymore and the Lombard has been "dedicated OS 9" since last used, period. (And direct wired via ethernet when only absolutely necessary.) The AeroCard worked with OS 9 and the NetGear worked with OS X. (Never liked the Lombard running OS X.)
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: FdB on October 06, 2017, 07:01:07 AM
Hmmm, images a little large there... wise guy.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: macStuff on November 22, 2017, 08:33:29 AM
gigabit ethernet > wireless
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: DieHard on November 22, 2017, 12:21:54 PM
No (Ethernet) upon Restart it is "Dead" again :(

Also Stuck at 10mb and Half Duplex" very weird when it works.

CardSlot (Cardbus) also appears to be "Dead"

Unfortunately Built in Ethernet is Dead
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: macStuff on November 22, 2017, 07:59:59 PM
hmmm
isnt cardbus basically the same as pci slots?

isnt it likely that these peripherals may just be located in a different address in the OpenFirmware device tree?
might any openfirmware wizard take a look at writing a script to modify the devicetree?

i think its probably pretty easy to take the closest "os9-supported" model and compare the device tree in openfirmware to the 17"  one that is having the anomalies? noting the differences may be a good place to start debugging this?

heres a link to the last time that devicetree was posted - that had a happy ending didnt it? who says lightning doesnt strike twice... *shrug* never know
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,762.msg3395.html#msg3395

"dev / ls"
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Astroman on November 30, 2017, 08:53:02 AM
I had no problems booting the 'Holy Grail' reliably over a couple of days with just the modified 10.2.1 Rom and use Sonicworx and Bias.

Differences to the process described in the start post:
no error messages about memory and USB
no graphic accelleration
booth firewire ports dead
PCMCI dead

yet the thing was usable, but didn't reveal groundbreaking performance compared to a BW G3 450 MHz.
Sonicworx calculations scored about 30% higher than on the G3

After exchanging the Rom to version 10.2.1v1 it hangs on the grey screen after attempting to boot. Any clues ? In particular the differences mentioned above puzzle me...
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: DieHard on November 30, 2017, 08:58:28 AM
Is your unit...
Apple PowerBook G4 1.0 Ghz 17" Aluminum
Model M8793LL/A - PowerBook5,1 - A1013

if not, please give serial number
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Astroman on November 30, 2017, 09:28:05 AM
System Profiler writes: ID406, Powerbook 5,2 serial V73384P2NRV
graphic is idententified as ATI, Jasper_A
resolution 1280x854
btw sound is flawless with internal speakers and headphones

ps: well, my eyes betrayed me... what I considered 17" is 15" indeed   ::)
and one model of that series came with ATI instead of Nvidea graphics.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: DieHard on November 30, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
System Profiler writes: ID406, Powerbook 5,2 serial V73384P2NRV

and one model of that series came with ATI instead of Nvidea graphics.


Yes, I kinda had a feeling it was a totally different model, since the results above have been verified on more than 1 unit; the 5,2 will like likely have no Video support (for acceleration), which is IMO the most important feature :(
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Astroman on November 30, 2017, 03:31:42 PM
yeah, pretty wiered stuff - that latest iMic Rom doesn't seem to work here, so I exchanged it by the version that succeeded and I replaced the System folder by the one from the 'unsupported G4 ISO' to have a more comparable setup.
Booted in full screen, but then switched back to small and remained like that, regardless of what the control panel indicated (it identfied the resolution properly).
Solved by adding the monitor panel which has those plugin additions in the Extensions folder, there's a button 'default' that immediately switches to full screen.

There is some graphic accelleration active now as the waveform drawing in Peak is much more snappy than before. No complaints at all about it's performance.

PCMCIA slot still dead, but the Firewire port is at least shown now by System Profiler.
USB works flawless, so the system is usable  8)
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: DieHard on November 30, 2017, 06:29:45 PM
Wow... I am Surprised :)  Check ethernet please
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Astroman on December 01, 2017, 01:13:50 AM
yes, that's on schedule as well. I revitalized my classic MacOS skills only recently since I got a Pro Tools TDM rig el cheapo and I do a lot of recording with an iPad, but there's also a few apps on Windoze that I rely on.
Networking would be more convenient than connecting/disconnecting pendrives or external disks.
The graphics accelerator is definitely not active (icon slashed on boot), but there may be different drawing routines active in the 2nd system setup. It's a very obvious improvement in performance.
AFP connection with a MacMini running Yosemite failed with an error, likely protocol/security based.

ps: Ethernet works and transmits between the MacBook and the BW G3 twice as fast as USB, 500 MB (disk image) is almost exactly 5 minutes.

pps: after reactivating my Synology NAS with services for Macintosh I repeated the same operation and yielded a 5 times higher data rate, oops... same 500 MB in just 1 Minute.
System Profiler reported the MacBook's ethernet as 10 half duplex, which I considered just a fake value, as it should be at least 100Mbit according to specs.
Added here just for completeness, as I have the 'wrong' model anyway.
(while not perfect, it's quite usable in it's current state)
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: jeremywork on January 05, 2018, 02:21:51 AM
When booting from the os9 unsupported CD for the first time on my FW800 1.42 DP I got the same message you did about there being a problem with the cache, followed by no longer having any L3 cache under OS X. It definitely did work before, and I'm extremely hesitant to try on my second FW800 1.42 DP. On my single 1.0 FW400 model (which is supported) the unsupported disk does not produce this error. The second USB device error seems to be in regards to the bluetooth controller, and can be ignored safely. Have you had any luck reviving your L3 Cache? PRAM reset hasn't done the trick. Plenty more to try... Hopefully OS9 compatibility doesn't require a permanent sacrifice of L3 Cache...

The Absolute Best Laptop that will Boot natively to Mac OS 9.2.2
Apple PowerBook G4 1.0 Ghz 17" Aluminum
Model M8793LL/A - PowerBook5,1 - A1013

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK ready to Boot !  I am so excited I can barely take it... WTF, what is this crap.... is this error real or an anomaly from booting to OS 9 ?

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic3.jpg)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, We now boot to an external FW hard drive that has OS X and see about the cache memory, remember this is NOT the main system memory, but memory on the logic board that cannot be changed by the user.

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic5.jpg)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic4.jpg)

Hmmm.... no error pop up, but we notice NO L3 Cache is listed (even in OS X)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic6.jpg)

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/PB17Pic7.jpg)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So ebay strikes again... we run a diags and indeed the cache fails diagnostics and we remove the SSD and put it in Unit 2.  Unit 1 boots to OS9, but the bad cache will slow down the DAW speed tests I want to do later :(

[/size]
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: lartch on April 04, 2018, 01:57:15 PM
FYI there's lots of machines faster than that PB 1.0 but they just require hacks to boot (PBG4 1.5, prolly 1.67, dual 1.42 MDD, 1.42 mac mini)
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: IIO on April 04, 2018, 02:36:11 PM
what do you mean by "just hacks"? the mini requires almost the same modificiations as the alu powerbooks. and the 1.5 and 1.67 are on the to-do list.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: mietek on April 05, 2018, 02:52:07 AM
What about the NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 in the G4/1.5 12"?
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: labbdos on April 28, 2018, 06:19:39 AM
Hi, I have a 17" 1Ghz PB G4 and a 15" 1.67Ghz PB G4 that I would like to run OS 9 on, but I can´t download the fixed ISOs. Not allowed because of capacity/no premium account. Are these ISOs available anywhere else?

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: DieHard on April 28, 2018, 09:47:25 AM
Hi, I have a 17" 1Ghz PB G4 and a 15" 1.67Ghz PB G4 that I would like to run OS 9 on, but I can´t download the fixed ISOs. Not allowed because of capacity/no premium account. Are these ISOs available anywhere else?

This has been an issue only as of lately, just make a "free" account on Adrive, we are working on this :(
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 02, 2018, 09:42:59 PM
A few weeks ago I took an offer of this machine with 1 Gig of RAM for 70 bucks and I took it.

Tested the machine with the original 60Gb 4200rpm drive and worked really slow on Tiger+Leopard, but fast on Panther.

I ordered 2 Gigs of RAM and the feeling were the same, only a little faster on Panther, but the drive were starting to give troubles.

So I decided to get the best 44 pins to mSATA adapter + a 240 mSATA drive. Total 33 Euros for the adaptor + 57 for the mSATA.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410MnmPfWbL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61FLHLVZHiL._SL1000_.jpg)
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 02, 2018, 10:05:41 PM
I have inserted a cardbus USB 2.0 card with NEC Chipset. I will report back if it works or not.

2 Things:

Where can I find iMic ROM file?

Should there be an order in the partitioning of a drive for a system to be the first chosen after a Apple+Alt+P+R

I am going to multiboot Mac OS 9 + Panther + Tiger and Leopard and enjoy it with a original M-Box with Protools and Logic in Mind.



Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: FdB on June 02, 2018, 10:14:06 PM
Ninester and I were just checking this mSATA + adapter scenario out today and considering same for a Mac mini. After viewing this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T35isLn-OhQ and noting the “doesn’t work” report in the comments, coupled with the fact that there was no follow-up video of the thing actually working… well, kinda-sorta nixxed the idea. BUT, do please report your success as the OWC, I assume 44 pin IDE SSDs - - (yes Mr. Happy, I remember) are a bit more expensive… and quite possibly… slower.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: IIO on June 03, 2018, 12:02:50 AM
would there be DOM / flash drives which fit into the HD slot of am mini? the kingspec stuff for example is not higher than a 40 pin IDE plug is.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: FdB on June 03, 2018, 09:09:24 AM
Interesting, 110.
Moved comments/response to General Hardware
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4435.msg31470/topicseen.html#new
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 03, 2018, 12:22:02 PM
Back to Powerbook 5.1 17", everymac have removed the wayback machine links for disassembling the machine. https://web.archive.org/web/20100413102532/http://www.ifixit.com:80/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/1 (https://web.archive.org/web/20100413102532/http://www.ifixit.com:80/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/1)
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: DieHard on June 03, 2018, 12:56:21 PM
Ninester and I were just checking this mSATA + adapter scenario out today and considering same for a Mac mini. After viewing this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T35isLn-OhQ and noting the “doesn’t work” report in the comments, coupled with the fact that there was no follow-up video of the thing actually working… well, kinda-sorta nixxed the idea. BUT, do please report your success as the OWC, I assume 44 pin IDE SSDs - - (yes Mr. Happy, I remember) are a bit more expensive… and quite possibly… slower.

As I have mentioned, the OWC Legacy IDE Drives are simply an mSata with an adapter in a pretty package, I am not sure what chipset is used... I imagine the adapter and mSata that PT5 is testing should work 100%... if not, we will have to hunt down the chipset used in the OWC or if they have made some modification
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 03, 2018, 03:32:53 PM


So I decided to get the best 44 pins to mSATA adapter + a 240 mSATA drive. Total 33 Euros for the adaptor + 57 for the mSATA.

It is more like the best adaptor plus the cheapest >128G drive. I hope it to be working. Most drive should saturate the ATA 100 bus.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: IIO on June 03, 2018, 04:18:42 PM
Interesting, 110.
Moved comments/response to General Hardware
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4435.msg31470/topicseen.html#new

unfortunately it mighzt be that i am wrong. both models i could find on ebay have a power connector which is some 2 mm higher than the rest of the thing. it might still fit into a G4 mini with some trickery.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 11, 2018, 09:57:11 AM
The adapter is working, but it came as cable-select as default and in that way TDM was not working, even from the Mac OS X control panel / Target Disk Mode option. Without that pin connected, it acts as master and works flawless.

My mSATA disk specs in Amperes are even better than suspect.  DC +3.3 450 mA
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: IIO on June 11, 2018, 10:02:24 AM
damn, i didnt even notice that this is the unsupported powerbook thread. we should really come back to topic here.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 13, 2018, 01:45:57 AM
When booting from the os9 unsupported CD for the first time on my FW800 1.42 DP I got the same message you did about there being a problem with the cache, followed by no longer having any L3 cache under OS X. It definitely did work before, and I'm extremely hesitant to try on my second FW800 1.42 DP. On my single 1.0 FW400 model (which is supported) the unsupported disk does not produce this error. The second USB device error seems to be in regards to the bluetooth controller, and can be ignored safely. Have you had any luck reviving your L3 Cache? PRAM reset hasn't done the trick. Plenty more to try... Hopefully OS9 compatibility doesn't require a permanent sacrifice of L3 Cache...

First time I rebooted the machine after opening it, my L3 cache went. "DieHard Syndrome"? I opened it again to make the Cable select to Master SSD drive converter change and I noticed the 2 memory chips of the L3 cache are heatsinked thru the keyboard!!

Then I put more presure to the keyboard screws, and Voila! , the L3 cache came back.
Title: Re: The "Holy Grail" Laptop... Fastest Mac OS 9.2.2 - PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 13, 2018, 01:49:08 AM
Performance/Hardware Test (Updates 08/11/2017)

3) QuickBench Test Results

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/QuickBench.jpg)


QuickBench 1.5?

Pictures 1 to 7 MacBench 3 results

Picture 8 and 10 (no 9) MacBench 5

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 13, 2018, 02:38:27 AM
Is My math right?

MBytes are KBytes/1024

Then, if I compare MB 3 and 5 results with QB 1.5 results the chinese 240GBytes drive is lightly faster than the 120 GB OWC Golden solution.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: IIO on June 13, 2018, 03:49:22 PM
*1024 :)

but yes, for transfer speed you usually use true numbers.

for storge size they use *1000 for gigabytes and up.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 17, 2018, 08:18:04 PM

So I decided to get the best 44 pins to mSATA adapter + a 240 mSATA drive. Total 33 Euros for the adaptor + 57 for the mSATA.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/410MnmPfWbL.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61FLHLVZHiL._SL1000_.jpg)

My mSATA disk specs in Amperes are even better than suspect.  DC +3.3 450 mA

Performance/Hardware Test (Updates 08/11/2017)

3) QuickBench Test Results

(http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/images/diehardposts/QuickBench.jpg)

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on June 17, 2018, 08:56:21 PM
Summary: Lightly better sequencial and lightly worst random.

Don’t know if PT5 used 1.92 or 2.1 to initialize his Zheino.

What a Journey! First the adapter were in cable select and that make me open the machine twice.

I connected the machine in TargetDiskMode to a Dual 867 MDD with instant DAW and from there I partitioned. Then had some errors choosing the right format for every system. Mac OS 9 loved HFS Extended , but all Mac OS X demanded somehow Journaling. A Tiger install on Mac OS Extended never let me dual boot without errors.

The PCMCIA/cardbus USB2.0 Nec chipset card is recognized and serves voltage, so you can only use it to charge the phone or a electric cigarrette... but nothing more

This machine needs some more love from Mac OS 9 hackers to make cardbus work, but otherwise a 1440x900 desktop is still awesome.

By the way, after restoring Instant DAW and dropping the unsupported MacOS ROM from the unsupported CD, you will need to take the M-Audio extension/Panel out on extension manager. Also deselect all ATI ones and choose the nVidia ones.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: FdB on June 17, 2018, 09:16:36 PM
Congrats! One of the very few times I've ever read the instructions
(very small green sheet with the Zheino) and I caught the jumper
configs before just slapping it in there and all back together again.

Quote: "Master mode (Not Connect)."

Thanks for the QuickBench results!
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: DieHard on June 18, 2018, 10:38:52 AM
Please let us know the functionality with ProTools after you pull up a project or 2 :)
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: kondre2000 on July 17, 2018, 10:06:11 AM
can one still download the iMic Rom needed for this?  I have a AL5,1 sitting here screaming to run OS 9
thanks
Kevin
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: kondre2000 on July 17, 2018, 12:35:30 PM
think I found it.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: PBComedy on December 14, 2018, 09:26:10 AM
So where can I get the Mac Os 9.2.2 boot disc software so I can take my old G4 powerbook and turn it into an Only Mac OS 9 and no longer OS X
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: panthera86 on September 02, 2019, 08:15:58 AM
Would a SCSI CARD work with this setup ?
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on January 21, 2020, 11:48:04 AM
Would a SCSI CARD work with this setup ?

AFAIK PCMCIA card doesnt work, at least my USB 2.0 card isnt recognized

My Powerbook is loosing the cache...  :(

Still is a GHz and 17"...  :D
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: DieHard on January 21, 2020, 12:33:55 PM
Heat sink pad on upper lid is critical, replace it and no CPU overheating and it will fix cache error
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on January 21, 2020, 12:44:41 PM
I once "repaired" it forcing more tension on the keyboard or memory screws.

Opening the Powerbook to try to repair/repaste is very, very,  very,  down in my list on TO DO things.

THanks for let me know that can still be recovered with some time.

Today, in my studio,  my PB 17 just works powered down as a Firewire Hub.  ;D  The Mac Pro on one side connected with a fw800 cable and the FW 400 on the PB connected to the Audiophile and that to a Hackintosh in Yosemite...

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on January 21, 2020, 12:50:20 PM
I had to use another configuration for the tests about the FW AP

A FW 800 to 400 cable as DieHard told us.

That config worked last year but after updating to latest Win 10 and MacTell have screwed the chance to run Mac OS 9 on it
 again.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: LarsG5 on June 13, 2020, 11:22:19 AM
Hello,
Any updates on fixing the issues?
I suppose the video glitches on shut down and FW issues aren't really fixable, BUT this "USB missing" alert on startup and sound issues seem to be an easy fix (please, forgive my ignorance if they're not).
Sleep mode seems to be doable as well, since this PB uses the 7455 CPU...
Also I'd die for a working Cardbus slot, but I suppose it's not a priority for the community and it's rather unlikely to ever be fixed...
Nonetheless, thank you all for making OS9 on this machine possible. You people are simply the best.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: GigaG on November 13, 2021, 11:17:19 AM
Just got it running on my Aluminum G4!

I have a few questions though

1. Can I dual boot with Tiger?
2. To enable the speakers, does the device plugged into the headphone jack have to be a working device, or could I just cut the plug of a cheap garbage pair of earbuds and use that?
3. In System Profiler, my Cardbus slot is located under the PCI slot (I have a broken ethernet port on this machine, not sure if that affects the PCI bus at all), is there any possibility the slot might just work? (See attached for screenshot.)
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: GigaG on November 19, 2021, 07:22:53 PM
Update: I'm typing this from the 17" PB G4!

One odd thing nobody has mentioned - there's a high pitched whine that comes from the area near the DC in jack. On OSX, it only happens when the machine is under some loads or scrolling through certain menus, but it's near-constant under OS9. It seems to cease when the trackpad button is active, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: robespierre on November 19, 2021, 08:01:10 PM
That type of phenomenon is called "microphonics" and can especially affect SMD caps and inductors. The idea is that the component changes size slightly as current passes through it, which is audible if the waveform pulses are at sound frequencies. It can sometimes be cured by judicious use of rubber pads or RTV silicone.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: GigaG on November 21, 2021, 08:58:08 AM
Is there any way to get external speakers or headphones working on this?
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: LarsG5 on January 15, 2022, 09:54:36 AM
I'm using a cheap chinese USB sound card - it works out of the box.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: mrhappy on January 19, 2022, 10:21:38 AM
Just got it running on my Aluminum G4!

I have a few questions though

1. Can I dual boot with Tiger?

I Have mine dual booting with 10.4.11

2. To enable the speakers, does the device plugged into the headphone jack have to be a working device, or could I just cut the plug of a cheap garbage pair of earbuds and use that?

A Dummy plug will enable the speakers to work, however on mine only the left speaker works so not sure if that's a thing or if speaker is cooked?

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Roman323 on January 24, 2022, 08:08:24 PM
I know this was asked before, but someone on this website told me that the DLSD G4 PowerBooks will boot into OS 9 with simple open firmware commands. Can someone try this, as I was able to get the boot loader to see OS 9 universal installer from this website, but when I tried to boot it the system turned off, possibly incompatible video or sound maybe.

Here is the link:  https://mac-classic.com/articles/mac-os-9-on-unsupported-systems/

He told me to apply some screamer script. but still getting the samething. Can someone give this a try and see what is the reason why once OS 9 disc is selected, it will start booting, but then turn off.

Thanks,

I think we are making progress, if we can get the G4 DLSD 15 and 17 inch models to boot, I think we can safely say the G4 PowerBooks can all support, though unsupported OS 9.2.2
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: DieHard on January 24, 2022, 09:18:04 PM
I know this was asked before, but someone on this website told me that the DLSD G4 PowerBooks will boot into OS 9 with simple open firmware commands.

Well, he actually said "I don't remember if it was a DLSD Model..." (Double Layer SuperDrive/High-Resolution)
Which unfortunately, is all the way up to a 5,8 model and uncharted territory, the more you stray, from the chips/chipsets and other board features of the OS 9 compatible hardware, you will be SOL when it comes to a workable OS9 unit; the 7447a is OK, but you are introducing DD2 (instead of DDR1 PC2700 like the unit I made this thread about) and other motherboard changes. 

If you have an old G4 desktop or older Mac OS 9 native G4 laptop...
The 7447a will still need OF patch, but then you can put the unit in target mode (the 5,8 model still has a FW port) and install to the Laptop's HD (as I did here), then replace the ROM file with the iMic ROM, after that try to boot, if that does not work and it "reboots" it's safe to say the 5,8 models are too different for the iMic ROM

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: LarsG5 on January 25, 2022, 09:07:53 AM

A Dummy plug will enable the speakers to work, however on mine only the left speaker works so not sure if that's a thing or if speaker is cooked?


Your speaker might be cooked - mine work just fine. Btw, have you tested them under OS X?
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: mrhappy on January 26, 2022, 08:38:54 AM

Your speaker might be cooked - mine work just fine. Btw, have you tested them under OS X?

I just noticed the speaker issue when I checked the dummy plug for GigaG... haven't tested under OS X.

I've mostly been using headphones and had the volume cranked/maxed while playing drums so I could have fried it doing that! Haha!  ;D
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Protools5LEGuy on February 16, 2022, 08:14:27 AM
Heat sink pad on upper lid is critical, replace it and no CPU overheating and it will fix cache error

Can you elaborate it, please?

I have two thermal blue strips unused from a nvme disk.

Back to Powerbook 5.1 17", everymac have removed the wayback machine links for disassembling the machine. https://web.archive.org/web/20100413102532/http://www.ifixit.com:80/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/1 (https://web.archive.org/web/20100413102532/http://www.ifixit.com:80/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/1)

The guide to dissasemble

Page 1 https://web.archive.org/web/20100413102532/http://www.ifixit.com:80/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/1 (https://web.archive.org/web/20100413102532/http://www.ifixit.com:80/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/1)

Page 2 https://web.archive.org/web/20100413104658/http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/2 (https://web.archive.org/web/20100413104658/http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/2)

Page 3 https://web.archive.org/web/20100413104703/http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/3 (https://web.archive.org/web/20100413104703/http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/3)

Page 4 https://web.archive.org/web/20100412203936/http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/4 (https://web.archive.org/web/20100412203936/http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/4)

Page 5 https://web.archive.org/web/20100413104708/http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/5 (https://web.archive.org/web/20100413104708/http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-PowerBook-G4-Aluminum-17-Inch-1-1-67-GHz-Hard-Drive-Replacement/246/5)

Page 6 has pictures broken on all wayback machine backups AFAIK
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: DieHard on February 16, 2022, 11:10:56 AM
Quote
Heat sink pad on upper lid is critical, replace it and no CPU overheating and it will fix cache error

Can you elaborate it, please?

I have two thermal blue strips unused from a nvme disk.

OK, so this is one of those weird mind fucks that makes you think you are crazy,  I just watched 3 videos from OWC and a bunch of videos from other people and the thermal pads are no where to be seen ?!!

Finally, this manual on page 75 shows the pad and comments on it, even though all the photos in the rest of manual ignore it and do not show it on the logic board; on page 75 they even explain it may "stick" to the top cover (as it often does):

https://www.applerepairmanuals.com/the_manuals_are_in_here/PowerBook_G4_17in.pdf

(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3912.0;attach=9611;image)

NVMe pads should work fine, just test the thickness, or research the part numbered mentioned in the manual for specs.

It is also explains on subsequent pages that you can re-do the actual CPU arctic silver/pads if you remove the logic board, I never did that procedure on this model, the easily accessed thermal pad that covers the 2 chips corrected the cache error when I put back it back in place and secured the top lid; but knowing the age of these units, a complete breakdown, cleaning and cpu re-arcticing is probably a good idea for longevity as they run hot; maintenance on older macs (especially these laptops) is not for the squeamish.  It's funny that the Pismos are older, yet are sooo much easier to work on... literally a fraction of the time to break down an entire G3... unless you are talking iBook, I just throw those away as I hate them, so many hours of my life wasted simply changing a hard drive in those piss-poorly designed units.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: shazbot on February 27, 2022, 04:32:42 PM
Just recently returned to this wonderful place. Well I have acquired a 17" G4 1Ghz. Upgraded the HD to MSATA 128GB. Target firewire to my Powerbook (TI) restore the Die Hard DAW, all good. I replaced the rom but the little shit will be not boot. Just a flashing folder. Is this because I have not installed OS9 drivers? Slightly confused, any help would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: macarone on February 28, 2022, 02:44:44 AM
>Is this because I have not installed OS9 drivers?

I've said this on previous posts, but here it is again:

To boot into OS 9, the OS 9 drivers must be installed on the Hard Drive, by erasing the whole hard drive.
You CANNOT install the OS 9 drivers on a single partition.

DiscUtility 11.1 will accomplish this, and after erasing and installing the OS 9 drivers, it will partition the Hard Drive.

DiscWarrior 4.3 will "bless" all Systems. Just run it on any partition you want to be bootable, and it will be.

If a Partition has information on it for Copy Protected applications, Carbon Copy Cloner 3.4.7 is able to clone a partition, preserving the copy protection on the cloned drive. You must manually select "clone" instead of copy.

Drive Genius 2.2.1  is able to clone a whole hard drive rather than just a partition. I have never tested whether it copies the OS 9 drivers, which are installed on the first 8 invisible partitions. To test this, you would need 3 Hard Drives (NOT partitions)
  1)  a bootable OS X hard drive with Drive Genius on it
  2) a hard drive with OS 9 drivers installed and with a blessed OS 9 System Folder
  3) a hard drive that you want to clone OS 9 to

Please report back your results!

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: IIO on February 28, 2022, 04:26:00 AM
yep, no OS9 drivers, no OS9 boot.
requires a reformat of the whole drive.
and in case you only have 10.5.x installed, discutil wont do it anymore, so you have to do it via console (or via a 10.4.x or OS9 bootabale media - this is how we basically suggest it for the macmini by providing a CD image)
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: shazbot on March 06, 2022, 03:00:09 PM
Well I finally made the destination and could have saved myself a whole load of coasters and going the scenic route! :(

I did think OS9 drivers were the issue but needed to verify hence the last message. Several attempts in Target Firewire mode with my TiBook to no avail - Tried Diskwarrior, I purchased this many years ago and managed to get it boot and rebuild but nada. I went hunting for Jaguar OS discs also, found them and burnt them. Wouldn't boot. Tried OS 10.4 disc 1, no drivers. In the end my last shot was the Disc for Unsupported machines - to my suprise, booted straightaway and installed in 10 mins. Everything now setup. Just finished installing my old Logic Pro and dug out the XS Key, a long with Reason 2.5. Got an old Mbox so will grab LE from here also. Just need to decide the most stable interface. Firewire Edirol FA101 could be my next purchase. Recently acquired an old Triton and JV1080 also so will be getting everything midi'd up to my MT4. Will be interesting to see how it pans out over the next few weeks. Currently working in Live/FL Studio on MacBook Air M1 & Mac Pro.

As for the Powerbook G4 17" - this is the 1GHz version with 2GB ram installed. Fastest machine to date for me re OS9, so snappy and amazeballs. I have a few TIBooks, 1 with a MSata, it flies but sounds like a wind tunnel on full whack after a while. 

The only issues with 17" is the speakers. Cannot figure out the exact part to replace. When I first got the machine I had OSX 10.4.11 installed but audio only worked through plugged in headphones, can live without it but would be nice at some point.

Thank you all to making this possible.

Cheers,

Shea.
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: kahuna on June 09, 2022, 12:44:19 PM
I decided to pull the trigger on a first generation PowerBook G4 A1010 867Mhz. I really like the 12" form factor  8)

What will be the best/easiest way of installing MacOS 9 on it? Any chance that it can dual-boot with Sorbet, or even better triple-boot: MacOS9, Sorbet, Linux ? (yeah, Linux guy, sorry!).
I do not have a Titanium that I can connect over Firewire... I do have a G3 Clamshell 366Mhz (no firewire) with MacOS 9.2.2 and a PowerMac G5 with Firewire (but running MacOSX Sorbet, Linux & MorphOS)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: ssp3 on April 24, 2023, 09:42:07 AM
Quote
Heat sink pad on upper lid is critical, replace it and no CPU overheating and it will fix cache error

Can you elaborate it, please?

I have two thermal blue strips unused from a nvme disk.

NVMe pads should work fine, just test the thickness, or research the part numbered mentioned in the manual for specs.

So, guys, how thick those thermal pads should be? Mine is also complaining about cache problems upon boot. ASD 2.1.4 shows L3 cache = 0 :(
And I see no remains of any kind of thermal pads attached to either top lid or any of the two chips.

Also, on mine, the left side fan is noisy and right side fan is dead and loose (unglued). Anyone have any spares lying around?
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: ssp3 on May 16, 2023, 07:56:51 AM
Answering my own question..

Not willing to pay "premium price" for boutique cooling products, I ordered 1 mm thick no-name silicon thermal pads.
At first I tried one layer. No change, cache still disabled. I then put two layers (2x 1 mm) of thermal pad and cache briefly came back to life. PowerLogix's CPU Director was able to see it for a moment, but then the machine froze and afterwards the cache remained disabled.
2 mm is definitely too much because with two layers keyboard has a bump in the area where the cache chips are located.

Now comes the interesting part. I was given another machine that had many parts, especially top cover, missing. Powered it up and it had no problems with cache and it did not complain about unknown USB device!!!
Ran it for a couple of hours without the cover - cache chips were only getting warm, not hot, like on the machine with problems.

I also noticed, that the guy with PB G4 5,1 prototype on YouTube had problems with cache.
Protools5LEGuy reported that tightening the keyboard screws - i.e. applying more pressure to cache chips, brought cache back to life.

All this and my experience (I'm an EE) tells me that this is more of a contact than thermal problem. Bad batch of mobos, bad soldering, imperfect soldering jig, failing cache chips or something inbetween. The problem might be similar to failing GPUs on G3 portables or 2011 15" MBPs.

It also might explain why one does not see thermal pads in various videos and don't find thermal pads in machines that have been "serviced" *. Absence of thermal pads will guarantee that the machine will disable failing cache upon startup and nobody, except technically minded people, will notice this in OSX.

* The first one that I bought have traces of "repair" - one of the caps near the cache has been fiddled with.

More later..
Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: Opualuan on October 19, 2023, 10:15:59 PM
Appreciate the guidance from this thread, I have a 17” pb G4 1ghz booting with macos 9 with similar symptoms. I was able to get past a few of these annoyances:

Ethernet- smc 2208usb gives me 10/100, limited by usb bandwidth. A bit slow but usable.
Unknown device at startup- removed the bluetooth board, resolved
Speaker disabled: etch cut on the audio connector board, internal speakers always on. Boot chime doesn’t come through, logic seems reversed at initial power-on.

Promising platform!

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: DieHard on October 20, 2023, 03:38:12 PM
So this is Pretty hilarious that even in the Apple Service manual it mentions the thermal pad and then all pictures after they mention it, have the thermal pad missing; obviously the unit they dis-assembled had the thermal pad stick to the top

In the winter on 2023 or Spring of 2024, we will hear more about the 17" 5,1 as the units that I used to start this post have been shipped to "FBz Industries" for further evaluation and dissection.

Title: Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: PowerBook G4 17" Aluminum 5,1 (Detailed Posts)
Post by: FBz on October 21, 2023, 05:27:41 PM
Looks like it might be a “Laptop Winter” here at the ol’ Ranch.
And yes I’ve already read through all these posts (twice, so far)
pre-warming up to the eventual task.

Thanks DH! ;)

It would be nice to have an OS9 functioning 17" G4
here upstairs... instead of the trusty, high-mileage G3 iBook.