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Author Topic: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists  (Read 4168 times)

Protools5LEGuy

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torvan

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2024, 01:44:28 AM »

Nah, we are not Masochists.  We are instead tinkers.  It is not painful to use our PPC Macs, it is instead a joy.
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aBc

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2024, 06:14:51 AM »

Where have you been torvan? Napping?
A bit of light-hearted mirth, always appreciated.

And thanks PT5LEG! Kinda fun video - but we're “masochistic”?
(Well maybe just a wee bit of self-flagellation, on occasion.)😉

We might have noticed zero references to MacOS9Lives
but it’s nice to see one’s work, however briefly on screen.
@eight minutes and 6 seconds in. (Don’t blink, you’ll miss it.)



Another lost, site bookmark https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4088.msg28011#msg28011 covering capacitor replacement in an MDD AcBel PSU from 2017. And of course, someone just posted to the BadCaps.net’s PSU eight page thread, looking for a schematic.

*Page one begins here: https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubleshooting-hardware-devices-and-electronics-theory/troubleshooting-power-supplies-and-power-supply-design/12980-suspect-bad-ps-apple-acbel-api-1pc36?t=14077 So get out your cat o' nine tails and strap yourself up.

Macintosh Garden did however receive a mention:



Maybe a little blurb over on Macintosh Garden’s opening page would steer more traffic here and to System 7 Today?
AND perhaps similar on the header / footer here for System 7 Today & Macintosh Garden… as we’re all one big happy family now? ::) 
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Bolkonskij

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2024, 06:50:01 AM »

Wait, did I get it right that they took your work (with permission?) but didn't mention where it came from? :-(
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aBc

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2024, 07:16:26 AM »

The video? Yes. No permission.
(However briefly.) I’m not bothered, really. But always hope for reference back to MacOS9Lives.

Badcaps.com? No.
I posted the line art there after original work done & posted here.

But below, this is kinda funny / bizarre… original images first appeared here & over on MacRumors.



It’s always nice to see our images or other work used elsewhere (even sans attribution?).
But for something that you really can’t quite understand?
Whatever they’re trying to sell above appears to be a great bargain,
- marked down from $56.00 to $28.00!
 
Half-price! Hurry, Add-To-Cart. ;D
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ssp3

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2024, 07:40:26 AM »

Well, just as I said in the other thread, if you offer 'no brainer' unlimited access to all of your resources, this is what you might get in the end  ;)

@aBc, start watermarking your images.
@Knezzen - it would be cool if we could edit our own content (attached pictures) without time limit. I would certainly add watermarks to my images attached to older posts so that they do not appear elswhere without proper reference.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 07:53:52 AM by ssp3 »
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Knezzen

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2024, 08:39:52 AM »

Editing posts retroactively is a bit sensitive. We've had issues here back in the days where angry users would edit every post they ever made, more or less destroying every thread they ever was involved in, hence the editing function is time restricted now. Not sure if we'd revert back to the old ways of doing so.

On the topic of resource copying or plagiarism, we've had more or less everything ever uploaded to Macintosh Garden stolen by Macintosh Repository which scrapes the entirety of the garden every week or so. Taking screenshots and everything and posting it with a edited upload link so it looks like the Repo is the original source. So I know how it feels to have your work stolen and re-branded as somebody else's.

The best thing to do is to inform people of the original source of the content and invite them to participate there (as in here). No watermark will ever be enough to solve the issue nowadays with "AI" around. And you can always crop out watermarks.

Just my two cents.
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aBc

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2024, 09:14:38 AM »

Well, just as I said in the other thread, if you offer 'no brainer' unlimited access to all of your resources, this is what you might get in the end  ;)

@aBc, start watermarking your images.
If I really cared all that much about images that I post (and have posted) here, I would have already watermarked them (and possibly added copyright / trademark information as well) before posting them. To me, for the most part my images are quick tabletop grabshots intended to help or to illustrate certain things hopefully for the good of all. If some turn up in rather odd places like the last three examples posted above, that’s completely laughable and somewhat entertaining to me.

And if I honestly cared to legally pursue any copyright infringement or ownership rights in any court of law - concerning images that I do post to this site, well there is the… place, time and date stamp of this site for evidence. However such legal wranglings for me are simply not worth the time nor effort, really.

[Now my professional, original works might be another story entirely. But those are not posted here or elsewhere on the internet.]

Seems to me that the choice here to watermark or not, is up to the individual. Does it really need to be more complicated than that? I’m more concerned that this Forum receive a mention or reference for any posted images of mine (or of other members) possibly used elsewhere.


AND You are killing me Knez, instead of all my above keystrokes (while you were posting) I could've simply "Liked" your post above. So now I've posted this anyway! :P



Original image, circa 1982 (Before Photoshop!)
High resolution 40 x 60 digital output prints of this image,
available from the MacOS9Lives.com online gift shop.
(I am joking. No such gift shop exists, yet.) ::)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 09:29:21 AM by aBc »
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IIO

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2024, 07:39:50 PM »

Zuse is retro, MacOS9 is not.
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aBc

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Re: Retro Masochists
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2024, 09:28:53 PM »

Quote from: IIO
Zuse is retro, MacOS9 is not.
Aha, the thread again shifts focus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WNFBjoJbBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu3Zch5tcM0

Thanks IIO, I might have mistakenly guessed Alan Turing. ;)
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ssp3

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2024, 10:11:43 PM »

Editing posts retroactively is a bit sensitive.
<snip>

I'm not talking about editing text, I'm talking about editing attachments (pictures).

Since there's nothing in Registration Agreement about transfer of ownership of original content to forum owner, from legal point of view, the copyright remains with original poster and he/she has all rights to request removal/replacement etc. of his/her original material. Therefore, I think, it would be better to leave such option to user, if technically possible.

I've been to forums where you have separate page in your profile where you can work with your attachments only.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2024, 10:41:29 PM by ssp3 »
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Jubadub

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2024, 11:21:05 PM »

@ssp3 You can edit the content of posts (attachments or otherwise) by requesting it to admins/mods and providing them with what will be the replacement. In your case, you need to create the specific watermarked pictures you want to replace the original pictures with, and appropriately send them over. Then you need to specify what posts they will go to, and provide their URLs.

I think this is fair of you to request, especially if the content is sensitive (which doesn't seem to be the case here, but that's besides the point), as long as it doesn't become common practice: from now on you should always upload them watermarked, so that the very limited forum resources (admin/mod time) are not irresponsibly wasted.

But to fulfill what you are asking, there is absolutely zero need to compromise the forum engine as a whole: We shouldn't systematically allow this for an edge case, at the risk of facilitating the destruction of history, as @Knezzen correctly alluded to.

================================

On a personal note, I get concerned seeing the sudden switch from the casual, amicable language to "Since there's nothing in Registration Agreement about transfer of ownership of original content to forum owner, from legal point of view [...]", because we are not arguing in those terms, and ideally we all should be discussing things in good faith. But this approach and language is destructive, and I strongly condemn this: it shifts our focus from the theme and goals of this forum, which is OS9, to, of all things, legal technicality and jargon. It raises distrust, and makes us defensive. This is not worth it, and anything that shifts us to that direction is a threat. People here are generally good, amicable, and will listen to your plea if there's anything you want edited within reason, without any need for such approach or language.

Incidentally, even if we are to go down that route, the Terms of Use ("Terms and Policy" as it is called on the bottom right corner) can nonetheless be accordingly updated with immediate effect to reflect this, perhaps with something along the lines of "While you own what you post, the proof of which being the fact that you can freely repost and reuse your content anywhere else, posts that are older than X and/or were responded to freeze and can no longer be edited within these forums, and the staff is not responsible nor has the obligation to spend its limited time resources to make such 'post-mortem' changes for you on a whimsy. At most, you can contact staff nonetheless, but the staff won't address the matter unless if the content in question is extremely sensitive, and that too only according to the staff's own discretion.". (I hate the fact I even "had" to type this sh!7: It shouldn't have to come down to this, I'd rather have used that time for something OS9-centric. Also of note: I'm not part of the staff, nor do I aspire to be.)


TL;DR: C'mon. Let's remain reasonable. We don't mess the forum, but if you want to retroactively watermark your stuff that badly, simply send them over, along with the links of the posts they correspond to. We might be able to go from there instead.
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ssp3

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2024, 11:58:42 PM »

On a personal note, I get concerned seeing the sudden switch from the casual, amicable language to "Since there's nothing in Registration Agreement <snip>

Don't worry, this is not what I intended. I was making a suggestion, while simultaniously pointing to a "hole" in agreement. I am sorry if you saw it as "offensive".  :)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2024, 01:01:09 AM by ssp3 »
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IIO

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Re: Retro Masochists
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2024, 12:19:59 AM »


Aha, the thread again shifts focus.


well, let me "correct" my statement a bit:

OS9 is "retro" when you have not been using it for a long time/never before.

but it is not "retro", when you have been using it since it exists.
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ssp3

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2024, 12:50:18 AM »

I suspect, most of "retro" Youtubers have never used OS9 before, not to mention OS7 (which I'm a big fan of).
I also suspect that many of them are there for the money. Note the "Includes paid promotion" in the video  ;)
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Bolkonskij

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2024, 01:13:24 AM »

on YouTube:

Hear, hear!

Had the same thought when one day I looked up Action Retro. He was talking about using a Haiku laptop as a daily driver when all of a sudden he switched to talk about a shaving lotion for men and thanked his sponsor!? THAT and the sensationalism that goes with it is what drives me away.

I find a good indicator is to see if the video preview has a photo of the author in it aka attempting "brand building". This verifies the "sales approach" versus the wish to spread information for me. If you want to see for yourself what I mean, look up Retro YouTuber "65scribe" and YouTuber "ActionRetro". Spot the difference?

on attachments:

It's been some time since I've dabbled with the admin settings of SMF, but I vaguely remember there was an option to allow only *registered* users to view attachments. This is not 100% solution, but I assume it'd not only provide a reason to sign up, but also keep the bots spidering this page constantly from grabbing documents?

on editing posts:

Maybe an extended period of time might be a compromise? Raising it to a few hours or a maybe a day? Otherwise I second the fact that this will likely be used by an enraged member to delete / obfuscate prior posts. You wouldn't believe how many people upload stuff to the Mac Garden and then rage delete them for whatever reason.
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robespierre

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2024, 10:22:28 AM »

MacOS9Lives has historically required registration to see attachments, and if you log out you'll see that it still does.

Not only rage quitting, but the other major reason for not allowing post editing is that it is used by spammers. Spammers are smarter than you think: they know how to do a web search (or these days, paste a question to ChatGPT), then submit the mostly-accurate response to a thread, and later come back and edit in a spam link to ClassyMumbaiEscorts after the initial period when mods are less likely to notice. Their goal isn't for this forum's users to see the spam links: any link they manage to get into a high-ranked forum is automatically boosted by the PageRank algorithm. They would just as soon you don't see their spam.

I agree that a 1-day edit window is generally enough to prevent this.
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ssp3

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2024, 12:02:53 PM »

Wow, robespierre, that's an interesting twist. Never thought of that.
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aBc

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Re: Retro Masochists
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2024, 08:54:01 PM »

@Bolkonskij: thanks for the mention of “65scribe” (good stuff / great find).
After viewing his video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFIoWHaHFT4 - might now give my old 9500 some long overdue and much needed attention.
Considering that it did help pay the bills around here for quite a few years. ::)
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Bolkonskij

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Re: Retro Computing Enthusiasts are Masochists
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2024, 02:12:06 AM »

MacOS9Lives has historically required registration to see attachments, and if you log out you'll see that it still does.

Darn, too rarely browsing the forum logged out :-) ... good point, robespierre. But that means somebody from "within" must have taken this stuff and actively posted it someplace else without crediting or asking permission. Not cool.

@Bolkonskij: thanks for the mention of “65scribe” (good stuff / great find).

You're welcome! Notice the difference? I very much like 65scribe, but he's not churning out videos on a bi-weekly basis nor does he do "brand building". He's just sharing his vast knowledge every now and then - add his splendid humour to it.

Btw, you can watch most of his videos on your Mac Mini in OS9 as Quicktime edition on Cornica too (with official permission, btw) ;-)
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