Classic Mac Hardware (Troubleshooting, Upgrading, & Modifying) > Storage Technologies

64 bits PCI on G4 working and confirmed!

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Protools5LEGuy:
I think ONBOARD ata-66 with a "classic" ata 3.5" 7200 rpm with 8 mb cache can give sustained 24 tracks and keep a free pci...

I could be wrong.  ;D

I donīt force PT in OS9 to work more than 8/17 tracks (Audio Click).
Be there demo from protools LE runs even on a 5400 rpm drive.

I did not test enought my Audiophile 24/96 on OS9, but 4 audio streams at 24bits @96kHz is just same as 8 audio streams 24bits@48kHz.

I guess with this Seritek 1eVE2+2 you can make a HUGE sampler and take the machine to a higher ground. Congratz Mactron!

supernova777:

--- Quote from: Protools5LEGuy on March 19, 2014, 08:39:13 PM ---I think ONBOARD ata-66 with a "classic" ata 3.5" 7200 rpm with 8 mb cache can give sustained 24 tracks and keep a free pci...

I could be wrong.  ;D

I donīt force PT in OS9 to work more than 8/17 tracks (Audio Click).
Be there demo from protools LE runs even on a 5400 rpm drive.

--- End quote ---

which machien are you talking about with this no pci card theory?
honestly i think your thinking is REALLY backwards on this... !
WHICH machine are u talking about having audio problems at 8 tracks?

this could be related to RAM (see my post recently about having ram sticks that are from different manufacturers)
could be related to using a disk that has poor performance

i would say its a combination of both of those things...
but usually MOST OF MY problems with computers have alwayst been related to poor disks
hard drives in general i dotn trust ..thats why its important for me to have SATA
so i can buy a new drive and replace if i need t
in my area a brand new 80gb drive can be bought at the store for 15$ now
brand new SATA2 (maybe even sata3?)

try a brand new SATA2/3 hard drive + clean matched ram
on any machine i  think this would fix problems such as that.. dont try to leave the pci bus empty.. that makes no sense??
by the same logic u might aswell leave hte machine powered off and dont use the Power supply  ;D lol


--- Quote from: Protools5LEGuy on March 19, 2014, 08:39:13 PM ---I did not test enought my Audiophile 24/96 on OS9, but 4 audio streams at 24bits @96kHz is just same as 8 audio streams 24bits@48kHz.

I guess with this Seritek 1eVE2+2 you can make a HUGE sampler and take the machine to a higher ground. Congratz Mactron!

--- End quote ---

u wait untill i post tests of SSD Raid 0 on my ACARD 6890M card.. which is only 32bit PCI and we will see if it is
indeed limited to 133mb/s as mactron has theorized.. i have a hunch this is incorrect and that this card will outperform this limitation.. but.. he may be right.. or he may not be;) we will see shortly when i try this with 2 ssd..
perhaps i will even buy the same brand + model of SSD that he did to make it a proper fair test.

http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/SeriTek1VE2plus2.jpg
vs
http://www.macway.com/images/products_new/CAR/ACA/CARACA0001/CARACA0001_zoom_MW_0.jpg

these 32bit pci sata cards promise 1.5Gbit/s *PER PORT*
so that means using both ports in raid0 = 300MB/s
but that is top potential theoretical i think
but let me pause to review some facts:


--- Quote ---SATA revision 1.0 - 1.5 Gbit/s - 150 MB/s
SATA revision 2.0 - 3.0 Gbit/s - 300 MB/s
SATA revision 3.0 - 6.0 Gbit/s - 600 MB/s
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

--- End quote ---
Conventional PCI buses operate with the following bandwidths:

    PCI 32-bit, 33 MHz: 1067 Mbit/s or 133.33 MB/s
    PCI 32-bit, 66 MHz: 266 MB/s
    PCI 64-bit, 33 MHz: 266 MB/s
    PCI 64-bit, 66 MHz: 533 MB/s

this page talks about a pci-x v2.0 spec that actually added support for PCI-X

--- Quote ---In 2003, the PCI SIG ratified PCI-X 2.0. It adds 266-MHz and 533-MHz variants, yielding roughly 2,132 MB/s and 4,266 MB/s throughput, respectively. ---http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X
--- End quote ---
but it appears that the world skipped this pci-x v2.0 and went straight to pci-express, so it seems they basically took this technology + shrunk it down to have a smaller connector + called it pci-e express

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bandwidths#Computer_buses

    SATA (SATA-150): 150 MB/s
    SATA (SATA-300): 300 MB/s
    Fast Ethernet (100base-X): 11.6 MB/s
    Gig-E (1000base-X): 125 MB/s

and remember this image:


as u can see we are really talking about
32 bit card (my acard 6890m)
vs
64 bit card (mactrons firmtek)

but mactron is thinking that my 32bit card is limited to 33mhz which isnt the case
as u can see:
PCI 32-bit, 66 MHz: 266 MB/s
the top speed for 32 bit card is actually 266mb/s in 66mhz mode
(thats why they promise 1.5gb/s per port but in reality this would be closer 133mb/s per port if both ports being used at the same time nad thats why u will never see a sata2 3g/s 32bit pci card because its impossible unless the card only has one port and even then it would be *under* the spec of sata2 by about 40mb/s)
which is the same as the 64bit card if the 64bit is being used at 33Mhz..
(which it probably isnt)
so this means that this 190mb/s mactron achieved is NOWHERE NEAR THE POTENTIAL OF THIS CARD
PCI 64-bit, 66 MHz: 533 MB/s
as top speed for 64bit card at 66mhz would be: 533 MB/s

Protools5LEGuy:

--- Quote from: chrisNova777 on March 19, 2014, 08:46:20 PM ---

which machien are you talking about with this no pci card theory?
honestly i think your thinking is REALLY backwards on this... !
WHICH machine are u talking about having audio problems at 8 tracks?


--- End quote ---

I dare you to install a Guillemot Maxi Sound Isis on a Amd or a Via chipset.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have no problem with my PowerMacs. I dont force them too...When they dont bong I reset PRAM 3 times and they live again like if they where frozen in 2002!

I open protools with digi001, create 8 aux and route analog to ADAT with a PMG3@350MHz. I use my G3 as "analog-adat converter" and dont need more bandwidth there.

My GHz dual is my "DSP factory" with an AudiomediaIII and a Audiophile24/96 Logic/Protools Os9/OsX. Before the 001 was there. This machine sometimes is my "BigBen" with the infamous clock from the AMIII on my Focusrite Liquid Saphire 56 via SPDIF. When I use inside protools 5 virtual instruments at direct connect 128 the computer gets to its knees. I prefer use PT as multitrack in PT9 AND use Virtual Instruments from Mac OS9 via Logic with 2 computers. One Multitracker with SATA-2 native, Quad processor for RTAS, UAD-1 with latency compensated. And the DSP and character of all MacOS9 goodness in logic 6 spice and protools rtas I can run. I have 3 DAWs all rooted. If I booted them all in OSX I would not need any midi interface because I have them all networked. I am happy to have enough AudioInterfaces for all my machines.   8)
I will put all Mactron 32 gigs and the rest on it.  All my powermacs have no monitor. I access them thru VNC. This will make my G4 the best sampler ever saw on a DigitalAudio box.   ;D ;D ;D
Sorry been off-topic.

Next winter I will try a RAID-0 setup with 4 IDE 7200 drives on a MDD the ATA66 and ATA100 having boot on the CD-ROM caddy just to see MB/s can give a softraid.

Protools5LEGuy:

--- Quote from: Protools5LEGuy on March 19, 2014, 09:40:16 PM ---
Next winter I will try a RAID-0 setup with 4 IDE 7200 drives on a MDD the ATA66 and ATA100 having boot on the CD-ROM caddy just to see MB/s can give a softraid.


--- End quote ---

A 5 IDE Raid-0 is also possible using the full cd caddy, but should be the bottleneck. So my test will be 4 ide Raid-0
A n-array raid setup is n-times as fast as the slowest drive. A 4 drive ata66/100 setup should be 4x the speed of a ata66 port, so should peak with SSD-ATA drives at 66+66=132. I will make with 7200rpm drives

supernova777:

--- Quote from: Protools5LEGuy on March 19, 2014, 09:53:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: Protools5LEGuy on March 19, 2014, 09:40:16 PM ---
Next winter I will try a RAID-0 setup with 4 IDE 7200 drives on a MDD the ATA66 and ATA100 having boot on the CD-ROM caddy just to see MB/s can give a softraid.


--- End quote ---

A 5 IDE Raid-0 is also possible using the full cd caddy, but should be the bottleneck. So my test will be 4 ide Raid-0
A n-array raid setup is n-times as fast as the slowest drive. A 4 drive ata66/100 setup should be 4x the speed of a ata66 port, so should peak with SSD-ATA drives at 66+66=132. I will make with 7200rpm drives

--- End quote ---

i have a 4x 7200 RPM RAID5 on xp that i just built the otehr day.. but i am getting one more harddrive to make all 4 drives the exact same WD2500JB model for consistancy..
i can do some speed tests but i woudlnt expect that it would be mindblowing!! i think they are connected to a ata-66 or ata-100 port definately not a ATA133..

i have read articles just in the last week stating (and showing benchmarks proving) that ATA devices are so slow that there is virtually NO BENEFIT AT ALL to running IDE devices in RAID other then to join the disks capacity.. speed wise.. they operate at the same speed if not slower then a single drive ... and these were articles that were made in around 2001-2002.... because all hard drives around that time were just.. not that great at all.. the reason why people even in 2000/2001/2002 still had use for SCSI drives that were actually still faster then ATA drives..
because ata drives SUCKED untill when?? probably around 2003 they started to get better?
id like to look that up.. ie: approximately what time did ATA drives surpass SCSI drive for performance?

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