Mac Os 9 booting on: G4 Tower MDD FW800 (Detailed Posts)

[blemk]

Hi,
I'm newly signed-up so I can share my findings. They point either to me being dim, or the need for a bit more detail in the 'Mac OS 9.2.2 Read Me ' on the disk images.

I have burned a CD from Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install.iso. I presume it's fine, because it boots my G4 MDD FW400, and Drive Setup autostarts as designed.

I assume this behaviour is intended to happen identically on the G4 MDD FW800, so that the install does not need a second machine? It doesn't - it won't boot from the CD, but reverts to the OSX drive. Starting with Option held down shows only the OSX drive available as a valid boot drive.

Back on my everyday Mac Mini, I mounted the MacOS9Lives.img image, dug out a FireWire external drive, and Finder copied the System Folder from the mounted MacOS9Lives onto the FW drive. On the G4 MDD FW400, I made sure the System Folder was 'blessed'. Back to the G4 MDD FW800 - starting with Option held down does not list the FireWire drive as a valid bootable volume, even though the startup sequence exercised it for a few seconds. Startup Disk does an even more thorough search on the FireWire drive, but doesn't list OS9, nor does it list the CD.

At this point, having typed the above, I scratched my head, then grabbed MacOSROM_1021_Generic.sit and substituted that ROM for the test one on the FW drive. Option-Startup on the G4 MDD FW800 now reveals the FW drive as a valid boot volume! After using OS9's Startup Disk CP, the machine meekly restarts in OS9 without needing the Option key.

Now impressed!

Cheers,

I see no mention of you adding the open firmware commands (for one time boot or a re-occurring open firmware script) to make the FW800 report MACRISC2 support like the FW400.. If you did, it could boot from the very same drive you had in your FW400. Otherwise, modified ROM works as well as noted by others. I just prefer the openfirmware change as there are other app (Disk Utility under Mac OS X) that work differently (in this case, they show Mac OS 9 Driver support) when the open firmware reports MacRISC2 support.

Holidays are coming, hoping to get back to this conversation shortly. As is, Mac play (vs Mac work @ work) has been put on the side for the moment. 

[DieHard]

I am working on another Image That will contain the Modified iMic ROM, his CD can be used on the FW800 and other NON-Supported G4s... However, even if the OS is recognized on unsupported Macs, the booting will vary from not working at all to a full success to anything in between.

Done and ready for download...

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2143.0

[Metrophage]

I used DieHard's new image a few days ago, and it worked great. As regards concerns about OF recognizing the system as MacRISC2 I had run iMic's Identity Toolkit earlier in the day, this did enable me to format my drive and install OS 9 drivers. Or of course the same script could be typed in OF directly. (I wish I knew a way to make OF text bigger, it's hard for me to read on my 23" monitor). I was going to make a version of DieHard's previous 9.2.2 Universal disc, but with iMic's patched ROM - but that same day he posted this same Unsupported disc, so I didn't need to. The CD loaded and ran without a hitch, and I was able to boot into 9 on my FW800 box with much whooping for joy.

The system is stable, about on par with usual OS 9.2.2 antics. Four days and 20 GB of data later and it's still running well. The only "problem" is that my 9.2.2 partition does not appear in the boot options when I option-start, but this has not caused me any trouble. I have a smaller X partition which I an select if I need to, otherwise it boots into 9.2.2.

[DieHard]

THANK YOU Metrophage,

At least a Confirmed Test of the 9.2.2 Unsupported ISO Image; now I can post it to Mac Garden

[Metrophage]

You're welcome - it was easy!

Thank *you*, and iMic, MacTron, and everybody else who has been involved in this years efforts. I didn't know how much had already been done to figure this out. It was a coincidence that I got my FW800 out and was going to try slogging through it myself - only to find that a bootable installer was posted the very same day. Can't beat that!

The FW800 was one of those situations where years ago I was buying what was claimed to be a MDD FW400 from somebody and it turned out to be a FW800. I was disappointed but it was cheap enough that it wasn't worth returning it, which I did consider doing. This installer will probably help many people who similarly have G4s they might want to make full use of.

I am very, very grateful for this! It's like getting a new MDD for Christmas. Much better for the video project I'm working on than my TiBook would have been.

[DieHard]

Thanks iMic

iMic did as awesome job testing the 9.2.2 Install ISO for unsupported G4s and you can see actual screen shots of the install on his post here:

https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?id=347

[Nimbus]

I too can report a mostly working G4 MDD (FW800) booting into OS 9.

I do have a niggle, though - my NEC monitor gets lumbered with 640x480 resolution, neither the Control Strip nor the Monitors Control Panel have any other resolutions available. Grabbing my Apple Cinema Display from my G4 MDD (2003), that has a single resolution too, 1680x1050. The UI announces the correct monitor name, so some information is being picked up by the display card and driver.

Both monitors when hooked to the G4 MDD (FW800) display their full complement of resolutions under OS 10.4.

Both monitors when hooked to the G4 MDD (2003) display their full complement of resolutions under OS 9.

I have a later Monitors Control Panel available, v 8.6.4 / Mac OS CPU Software Z-5.4, but this does not improve matters, apart from its more modern design.

This CP is in my routine System Folder on my G4 MDD (2003). I can boot from this on the G4 MDD (FW800) if I substitute the Generic ROM, but the monitor resolution irritation persists.

The G4 MDD (2003) has an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro Display Card, and the G4 MDD (FW800) has a nVidia GeForce4 MX.

It's possible I've got a borked card in the FW800 I suppose, though it works OK under Tiger. Anyone else found the same?

[Metrophage]

I find that when the screen resolution is stuck, the problem tends to be the drivers rather than the card or monitor themselves. Which extensions load for your display card?

[supernova777]

both those cards (geforce4mx, radeon9000) are obviously 2 of the most supported stock g4 cards.. something has to be causing that...... they should work just fine..
as they do on the mdd 2003 (i have one aswell) although i run a radeon 8500 in my mdd 2003.

[Metrophage]

My FW800 has a IIRC Radeon 9200. When I first brought it up after install I was stuck in like 1024 x 768 stretched across the screen. I quickly checked the System Profiler and then the Monitors control panel to see what was going on. But when I started the next time, my monitor options had all appeared anyway.

[Nimbus]

Which extensions load for your display card?

I've forgotten many of the Mac OS classic tricks. How to tell which extensions are in use?

[Metrophage]

I forget too, because it works a bit differently depending which version of MacOS I have installed.

When the system starts, you will likely see some of them loading by their pictures at the bottom of the screen. But, mainly, I'd recommend going to the Apple menu in the upper-left, clicking on System Profiler to run it. From there, you can refer to the tabs at the top of the profiler screen. "Devices and Volumes" should display what the system recognizes your display card as. And the "Extensions" tab should present a list of all the system extensions in your folder - it says what versions they are, and whether or not they are loaded. If a card is valid and the system won't load its extensions, it might be worth trying to find a more current version of whatever extension you need.

[Nimbus]

Got a bit bored over Christmas.

So, I pulled the MDD(2003) and the bird's nest of cables out from under the desk, and set up the MDD(FW800) in the next room. Next step was to exchange the Graphics Cards between them. Lo! and Behold (as you do at this time of the year), the MDD(2003), now with the nVidia GeForce4 MX, booting natively into OS 9.2.2, can only display a single resolution. This definitely looked like a card issue, rather than a FW800/OS9 issue so I set about Googling. Turns out that the exact same problem was seen back in the day: http://archive.macfixitforums.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/126039. Just one of those things that Apple didn't clean up in OS 9's dying days, I guess, so certainly no fault of the current community effort. In addition to that problem, my nVidia card will only output analogue, not digital, via the DVI port (in either machine). I grabbed the nVidia firmware updater which is still available on Apple's support site, but it claimed mine was up to date, and wouldn't permit a re-flash.

Meanwhile, back on the MDD(FW800). A useful data point would be to boot with the Radeon. No joy - the machine hung during the extensions loading process. I remembered from the distant past a useful tool called Symbionts, which labels each startup icon with its file name, tracked down the newest version (2.8.6) I could, and loaded that. This revealed the freeze occurred during the load of the ATI Graphics Accelerator. Not good. Well, what would happen if the ATI extensions were disabled? Answer - the machine booted, and I had access to the full range of display resolutions, so even with its drivers disabled, the ATI card seems a better bet than the nVidia! For the sake of completeness, I added the ATI extensions back one-by-one to find which combination restored the freeze. I got them all re-enabled, but the machine was still booting happily! I'd suggest that method for anyone who trips over the same problem.

I returned the cards to their rightful homes without any problems. But it looks like I'll be in the market for an ATI Radeon 9000 Pro to replace that nVidia!

[supernova777]

i have a geforce4mx and as far as i know its worked fine for me but that is inside my Quicksilver 933mhz..

what are u doing with an mdd with A GEforce4mx?
they didnt ship with that card.. only the quicksilvers did.

ok according to everymac the 867 mdd did ship with the geforce4mx..
i dont remember having that issue on my dp867 mdd..
it did come with a geforce4mx but i changed it out for a radeon 8500....

i can try to check to see if i have similar results
i dont remember seeing this issue tho

[miracman]

I've forgotten many of the Mac OS classic tricks. How to tell which extensions are in use?

The friendliest way to do this (friendly towards the system), is by using the "extension manager" control panel.  Using it you can also set different sets of extensions for different usages.  Obviously you need to be able to boot though.  Otherwise everything in the System Folder/Extensions loads. 

I have a GeForce4 MX (32 mb) in my MDD 867, and it works like it should.. I have a french version of the 3.5.2 6 extensions (back in the days you could just go to  http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates and wander around) I can zip the 6 for you I guess.

As for extensions go.  There's a great little util that's called ConflictCatcher.  It just takes over Extension Manager and will boot several times with different sets of extensions enabled, simply asking "is problem x still happening"? until you can pinpoint x problem.  It's simple but very useful.  Once the problem has been resolved you can switch back to extension manager, or you can keep it if you want to see tons of labeled extensions when you boot.

I have a ATI Radeon 9000 pro on my other tower (that's a gigabit ethernet dual 500) and it's nice and all.  The only problem I can think of with it is the normal apple repair cd doesn't recognize it. 
Regarding extensions for it, in my own experience, the "ATI Rom Xtender" is always causing problems. The pre installed ATI Graphics Accelerator (from 9.2.1. or 9.2.2.) is also problematic with it. If you keep it installed you have to force quit rightaway upon first reboot just to get to the basic settings wizard thing.
Basically I just take those 2 out of the Extensions folder before  first reboot, until you can install the extensions with the cd that came with the graphics card.  I'm not sure if it's the CD or some other install update but I remember I had to manually take out the extensions on my french system because the installer was a bit stupid. 
I have a radeon 9000 update from 2002 and the ati-retail-9-2-2-jan2005.hqx update available if someone needs those, but I'm a total newb here and don't know yet how to handle files.
One of these (or the CD) installs a Control Panel called "ATI Displays" which I suggest to temporarly disable (it's not that useful), when you install multiple applications.  The problem I had with the Control Panel is that it would not turn off when installers want to close everything before installing.  Simplest way to deal with that is to manually put it in the "Control Panels (disabled)" folder and reboot before installing multiple apps.  Or you can each time open the control panel and turn it off.
Then you can put it back where it belongs.

[torvan]

Total success for my MDD 1.25Ghz Dual FW 800 machine.

I just grabbed the modified 9.2.2 with 10.2.1 (generic) on it, burned the ISO (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2143), and installed OS 9.2.2 without the trip to Open Firmware. Works beautifully and exactly as my Quicksilver does, only much faster. Screen shot attached.

It does show up in Startup Manager (the Option + Boot) for me. In fact, there is no difference at all between the way the Quicksilver works in any way, other than it is much faster now. I even skipped the Disk Utility and initlized a 237 GB drive into a 180 GB partition and a 57 GB partition and ran the Apple Software Update. I have 73.25 GB now filled of that 180 GB Drive.

Thank you so much everyone for your hard work and your dedication to making this happen in such an easy way.

I know there was some talk a little further back about needing an eMac G4 OSX only machine--I happen to have one I would be happy to test things out on. Let me know--it is just sitting on the shelf right now and is non-critical to me.

Should we get even deeper into this, I have a G5 Dual 1.8Ghz as well.

[supernova777]

congrats torvan...
keep in mind having 2gb of ram might cause some programs to crash in mac os 9
if u ever run into a problem of apps crashing.. try taking out 1gb of ram.. 2gb for mac os 9 is overkill . but of course some people would disagree with me...

the beauty of being an individual is you are able to think your own thoughts + have your own beliefs

dont hold your breath for mac os 9 on the g5..
i will personally fall off my chair if we live to see that happen

holy crap man 12000 views on this thread

[torvan]

So far, Photoshop 7.01 is loving the RAM, so is Canvas 8.05 and Illustrator 10.03. Office 2001 is still the same dog it always was, always having to configure itself before loading. Toast 5.2.3 is happy and actually a bit faster, as is StuffIt 7.

Now the games on the other hand--I have no idea. I haven't had time to play the 57 games that are installed yet. I have also left Conflict Catcher and Suitcase still on their discs--have not had the need yet for either, but the 543 fonts sitting on discs I have also not had needed.

But for work, which is the primary use of this machine, it is screaming along.

[TekHunter]

All I can say is wow. No problems at all setting up and running on my MDD dual G4 @ 1.25ghz machine. The system is running great. Thanks to everyone who made this happen.

Video of the machine booting up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQcukH03bXQ&feature=youtu.be

[DieHard]

Cool Video... although you talk too much...lol