Mac Os 9 booting on: G4 Tower MDD FW800 (Detailed Posts)

[supernova777]

awesome news 

[Nymunariya]

somebody at Apple is wondering who the hell is registering OS 9??? 

[DieHard]

somebody at Apple is wondering who the hell is registering OS 9??? 

We should get all the members to register Mac OS 9 on the same day, then call tech support and ask when 9.2.3 is being released

[lokki]

sorry to revive this thread, but has anyone tried an aluminium powerbook 12 inch 1.5 ghz? would that also work? or other aluminium powerbooks with 1.5 ghz or higher cpu speed...

[Veneteaou]

Depends on the model lokki. Some of them have hardware-specific issues that a couple of ThinkClassic guys are slowly working through. One of the biggest issues is that mobile video card drivers were never written to run in os9 for late-G4 laptops.

Video is the issue for the 12" 1.5GHz. It's running a 64 MB GeForce FX Go5200 for a video card, which was never used in an OS9-compatible laptop. So unless someone can patchwork together video extensions from bits and pieces of OSX drivers, it would have to run video off of the CPU and it would be essentially worthless.

[velvetcave]

Thanks so much for this, it works and made my day.

[macStuff]

sorry to revive this thread, but has anyone tried an aluminium powerbook 12 inch 1.5 ghz? would that also work? or other aluminium powerbooks with 1.5 ghz or higher cpu speed...

 

[DieHard]

Kinda has a lot going against it, beside the Bluetooth 2.0, AirPort Extreme and USB 2 being a total no-go, I doubt the "GeForce FX Go5200" would emulate the "NVIDIA GeForce4 440" and load the driver for acceleration, but please give it a try.

Also, as we have discussed the PowerPC 7447A processor is possible under OS9, but needs OF modifications, so you may need a few OF commands before you can even try our "Unsupported OS 9 Install"

I am guessing overall, it will have many "deal breaker" items, like No USB, No WiFI, No Ethernet, and Low res graphics

[macStuff]

my mistake i thought i was referring to the same model of laptop that u posted about buying 3 of on another thread

[trevor12]

the link

https://www.adrive.com/public/Fgb3Ge/MacOs922custer.img.sit

is dead, pls reupload

[DieHard]

Here is a new "active" Link

https://www.adrive.com/public/tX2yv9/Mac%20Os%20ROM%209.8.1%20(Cluster)

[afewmacs]

thank you all who made this possible,

my machine is now up and running with OS9 and OSX 10.5.8.

re: installing the OS9 drivers, mission impossible from the FW 800 itself, not as I read here OS dependent but machine dependent.

I used target mode from one that could, a MDD dual 867, anybody else doing this should add carbon lib to the extensions folder,

a requirement for the Logic 6.4 installer, which in my case  - was what this was all about.

note the file Logic_v6.sea.bin downloaded from here appears to be corrupted.

Boots into 0S9 with option key on start up, not available in OSX 10.5.8 system preferences Start Disc.

video ATI Radeon 9000 Pro - DVI output res is not quite right (1440 x 900 60 Hz is the best option)

[IIO]

re: installing the OS9 drivers, mission impossible from the FW 800 itself, not as I read here OS dependent but machine dependent.

yep it is the machine that prevents that OS9 or OSX can write the OS9 driver to the HD in a regular fashion.

but those who do not want to use the ASR method from this forum can also just turn over the HDs to another computer, which allows to write the drivers, then move them back again. (well, it is work, but compared to a mini it is doable for more people...)

otoh, yesterday i was thinking one should also make a little disk image for mirroring the driver to an empty disk. just as the MacOS9Lives fw 800 CD, but without the operating system installer.

video ATI Radeon 9000 Pro - DVI output res is not quite right (1440 x 900 60 Hz is the best option)

it should work. did it under OSX?

[afewmacs]

video ATI Radeon 9000 Pro - DVI output res is not quite right (1440 x 900 60 Hz is the best option)

it should work. did it under OSX?
[/quote]

yes , in OSX perfect there are different res options available.

wow !! re: above, remove the drive from a Mac mini to install the OS9 drivers is more work than the machine is worth.

this morning added the ADAT edit card from the PPC 7600 to the MDD FW800 leaving the Korg 1212 in place solo, 8 channel lightpipe in all machines now  - not in the mini that stays at OSX 10.4.11 and at the moment completely redundant. Waiting for a new purpose in life,

[darthnVader]

video ATI Radeon 9000 Pro - DVI output res is not quite right (1440 x 900 60 Hz is the best option)

it should work. did it under OSX?

yes , in OSX perfect there are different res options available.

wow !! re: above, remove the drive from a Mac mini to install the OS9 drivers is more work than the machine is worth.

this morning added the ADAT edit card from the PPC 7600 to the MDD FW800 leaving the Korg 1212 in place solo, 8 channel lightpipe in all machines now  - not in the mini that stays at OSX 10.4.11 and at the moment completely redundant. Waiting for a new purpose in life,
[/quote]

You can write the OS 9 drivers to a disk when formating from the Terminal in OS X, even when booted from the Install DVD on a Mac that doesn't support OS 9.

Code: [Select]

diskutil  partitionDisk  /dev/disk1 1 OS9Drivers  HFS+  MacHD 0b
Be careful with /dev/disk1, you'll want to run:

diskutil list

To see a list of disks installed in the system and adjust the command to partition the disk you want. The 0b will use the entire disk, there should be a way to adjust the command to create more that one partition.

If you want a partition for OS 9, and one for OS X, it would be something like:

Code: [Select]

diskutil partitionDisk /dev/disk1 2 OS9Drivers HFS+ MacHD 4000M JHFS+ OSXHD R
This would create 2 partitions, one name MacHD formated HFS+ that is 4000 Megabytes, and one names OSXHD formated JHFS+ that would use the remainder of the disk.

Just adjust the size in megabytes you want for you OS 9 partition, and insure you are partitioning the correct disk( /dev/diskx ).

 

[afewmacs]

You can write the OS 9 drivers to a disk when formating from the Terminal in OS X, even when booted from the Install DVD on a Mac that doesn't support OS 9.

Code: [Select]

diskutil  partitionDisk  /dev/disk1 1 OS9Drivers  HFS+  MacHD 0b
Be careful with /dev/disk1, you'll want to run:

diskutil list

To see a list of disks installed in the system and adjust the command to partition the disk you want. The 0b will use the entire disk, there should be a way to adjust the command to create more that one partition.

If you want a partition for OS 9, and one for OS X, it would be something like:

Code: [Select]

diskutil partitionDisk /dev/disk1 2 OS9Drivers HFS+ MacHD 4000M JHFS+ OSXHD R
This would create 2 partitions, one name MacHD formated HFS+ that is 4000 Megabytes, and one names OSXHD formated JHFS+ that would use the remainder of the disk.

Just adjust the size in megabytes you want for you OS 9 partition, and insure you are partitioning the correct disk( /dev/diskx ).
[/quote]

thank you,

wow you guys are good.

I will now correct the "mission impossible" statement from above, to "possible if you know how".

Good to know if I have to do it again

[IIO]

i wasnt aware that you can launch the terminal app from the install discs.

seems a good alterenative to keep in mind.

yet a bit dangerous for those who expect a warning/confirmation dialog before erasing a HD

[afewmacs]

now we have it, OSX install discs are required to use Terminal, so while you are it, on for example the mac mini solution (which is a real pain to get the drive out and do it elsewhere).

upgrade the existing OS to 10.5, Time machine the contents of the drive to a safe place, and then zap it as above with Terminal to install the OS9 driver

ditto for FW800, and all other none Native OS9 G4 machines.

[darthnVader]

now we have it, OSX install discs are required to use Terminal, so while you are it, on for example the mac mini solution (which is a real pain to get the drive out and do it elsewhere).

upgrade the existing OS to 10.5, Time machine the contents of the drive to a safe place, and then zap it as above with Terminal to install the OS9 driver

ditto for FW800, and all other none Native OS9 G4 machines.

You can always use Firewire Target Disk Mode if you have another Mac with FW.

You know hold "T" at startup.

[DieHard]

You can always use Firewire Target Disk Mode if you have another Mac with FW.

You know hold "T" at startup.

Yes, that has always been my preferred method as seen here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3912.0.html

[IIO]

you can only boot from firewire if there is a another computer within your reach.

[DieHard]

you can only boot from firewire if there is a another computer within your reach.

Are you implying that we have accepted a member that owns ONLY 1 Mac ?!

This upsets me greatly...hehe

[darthnVader]

you can only boot from firewire if there is a another computer within your reach.

Are you implying that we have accepted a member that owns ONLY 1 Mac ?!

This upsets me greatly...hehe

I don't think I can run a FW cable that far, seem to recall there being a limit to the length of a 1394 cable.

Tho I think I could setup an ad-hoc wireless network for quite some ways.

[IIO]

Are you implying that we have accepted a member that owns ONLY 1 Mac ?!

This upsets me greatly...hehe

no, i was more thinking about the members which have so many macs in their factory hall that afirewire cable might not be long enough.

joke aside, plugging cables can be a real pain depending on the situation. thee more minis you have, the more you will feel the need to build a custom case, and even in my living room there is so much gear on my tables that all my cables are led behind it.

[DieHard]

joke aside, plugging cables can be a real pain depending on the situation. thee more minis you have, the more you will feel the need to build a custom case, and even in my living room there is so much gear on my tables that all my cables are led behind it.

Yeah, every room, garage, work, home... there is no escape from the plethora of "stuff" we have accumulated. Old macs never die, they just wait on shelves, to be loved once more.

[darthnVader]

Are you implying that we have accepted a member that owns ONLY 1 Mac ?!

This upsets me greatly...hehe

no, i was more thinking about the members which have so many macs in their factory hall that afirewire cable might not be long enough.

joke aside, plugging cables can be a real pain depending on the situation. thee more minis you have, the more you will feel the need to build a custom case, and even in my living room there is so much gear on my tables that all my cables are led behind it.

My den looks like the storage room at a computer repair store. Tho I don't take tech in my bedroom, not ever a phone or a clock, just a some detector and a light.

[IIO]

i wonder what kind of "detector" you have in your bedroom but maybe it is not my business.

[DieHard]

Just guessing "some detector" = "smoke detector"

[IIO]

iWarn

[Trace-Elliot]

Fantastic ! What a great masterpice!
For my ( Basic User Level ) it was easy to install os 9.2.2 on my 10 years unused G4 fw800.
Now the G4 is booting native os 9.2.2

One question , is it possible to Clone a Mac Boot Volume ( normal G4 Not fw 800) with the ASR Software on the CD Rom ?

[DieHard]

One question , is it possible to Clone a Mac Boot Volume ( normal G4 Not fw 800) with the ASR Software on the CD Rom ?

Yes... Of course

[Greystash]

I finally got my hands on a MDD FW800 1.4Ghz which came with lots of goodies (Media 100 cards + adapter etc.), and boy are the fans noisy!! I installed OS 9.2.2 easily with the ISO available on this site but have run into a few problems. OSX wouldn't sleep because of a USB card (even though it has a NEC chipset), so I removed this since I can't find any USB drivers and it's an unbranded card. The card still works on both systems but it was too annoying keeping it in and having the computer lock up after each wake.

OS9 still crashes every time it wakes from sleep and I can't figure out what's causing it. I've removed every card and only have the OS9 HDD and CD drive attached. I've tried sleeping with all extensions on and off but still get the same results. The machine goes to sleep but is unresponsive to the keyboard and mouse, and will only power up if I press the power button. When it wakes there is no display (black screen) and nothing happens. I've tried three different Video cards (tested in my quicksilver) and got the same results.

Has this happened to anyone else? Any suggestions?

[DieHard]

I hate to sound like a broken record... but the absolute 1st step (with a new G4) is to run the Apple diagnostics or tech tool diagnostics or both

AHT (Apple Hardware Test) FOUND HERE:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/board,33.0.html

Also, as discussed, if possible, BEFORE the diags...

1. Blow out all dust (No Vacuum, it will generate static, insert a small wire in fans while using a compressor, this prevents high speed rotation) 
2. Test MB Battery (anything below 3.4V, change it)
3. Clean all RAM contacts with automotive electric contact cleaner and paper towel, blow off paper bits
4. inspect Board (look for corrosion, battery leakage, water damage)
5. Remove all extra cards
6. inspect USB and other ports for damage
7. Arctic Silver CPU board if technically proficient

[Greystash]

Thanks for your reply DieHard.

- I've burned three copies of AHT but it's not recognised on boot. I did these both with OSX 10.4 Disk Utility and on Toast 5 under OS9. It still wont boot from the CD even after unplugging all other devices, changing the CD drive to master etc. It's also greyed out in Startup Disk. The Mac OS 9 CD boots every time so I don't think there's an issue with the drive.
- I've cleaned the machine + components as much as possible.
- MB battery is at 2.3V, I often take these out of my older machines since they're always connected to power anyway. How much can this effect things? Unfortunately it's not easy to get another one of these in NZ, I will need to order one online.
- The board is in perfect condition, no damage and no dust.
- I've removed every card other than the video card (I've tried 3 different ones), and have also removed all extra components + cables
- Ports appear to be in good condition
- I don't think this is a thermal issue since it happens when the machine is still cold from a fresh boot

Sleeping works fine in OSX which is why I don't think it's an issue with the machine. It only fails to wake under OS9 and there is no keyboard, mouse, or video response. Just the fans and disk drives spinning up. I've been testing with a fresh install from the image on this site, have tried disabling video drivers, installing newer ATI drivers etc. Have also tried several HDs.

I've reset nvram, pmu, pram which has made no difference. Do you think downgrading the firmware as mentioned earlier in this thread could help?

[macStuff]

can we get moer info on the video cards u have used
are they real mac oem or retail cards; or pc flashed cards etc?

[Greystash]

Have mostly been testing on the stock Radeon 9000 Pro AGP (64MB) that came with the machine, and have also tried an ATI Rage 128 PCI (Mac), Radeon 7000 Sapphire  PCI(PC flashed), and a NVIDIA GeForce2 MX PCI (Mac). Same results with each one, and when changing driver configurations.

[macStuff]

hmm i never knew the geforce 2 came in PCI?
 
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce2-mx-pci.c791
geforce 2 was an amazing card at the time it was released i remember being very happy with it

just keep removing extensions till u find whats causing it i guess?
have u done the whole zap the p-ram thing?

what u could try is removing the battery + unplugging the unit + leaving it over night like that
and then try putting the battery back; it may be holding on to old info in the open firmware somehow?

moderator should really split this topic to a seperate thread for greystash's issue;

[Greystash]

It sure is!

I've tried disabling all extensions except video drivers and there's no difference. Disabling all extensions disables sleep completely because of missing drivers (video).
I've reset PMU, PRAM, NVRAM and am still getting the same results - unresponsive to keyboard + mouse and crash on wake after waking with the power button. Also, after waking it appears that the keyboard and mouse aren't even getting power supplied to them. I'll try out the battery thing this weekend. I'm wondering if this is one of the very last MDD variants which have slightly different hardware and isn't playing nice with OS9??

Yeah sorry this should have gone into troubleshooting... I thought it might have been a quick fix that could have happened to others but it now seems to be a very strange case.

[Greystash]

I've hit a dead end with this after days of trying to figure it out.. For future reference this appears to be video related (will post in hardware section if I ever find out what's actually going on). I got the system to a point where if ALL video related extensions (including Quicktime QuickDraw etc.) were disabled the computer would sleep the display, turn HDs off etc. but the fans would still run. It's became responsive to mouse and keyboard input to wake. Upon waking it would show the "Computer couldn't go to sleep because of missing software etc.". Very close..

When enabling a minimal video extension setup e.g. only the 'ATI Driver', or 'NVIDIA Driver' the sleep crashing happens again (only responsive to the power button for waking, and a black screen on wake).

I think it's something to do with the Mac OS ROM/Firmware version (I think it's 4.6.x?) or a combination since it works fine in OSX, and because of the amount of different cards I've tested. I tried downgrading the firmware using the method in this thread but it wouldn't work, each time I got a message saying the firmware file couldn't be found, and believe me, I tried every combination of ways/setups to try get this working!

[sirenamusic]

I don't know if it's my computer, but when I try to uncompress and burn a cd image of os 9.2.2 and they all seem to be corrupted.

[IIO]

it is usually the user and not the machine

describe in detail what you do and what happens to get a more useful answer.

[velvetcave]

So I used this to convert an FW800 G4 to work with os9. I need this as a backup system for my remote session music stuff. It works very well with protools 5.1.3 and all the cards and peripherals are working fine. Very happy:). Just something a bit odd, I used two of my external firewire drives ( a glyph GT050 and a Lacie rugged) to transfer session data onto the new machine to check it out. No problem with that but on returning to my original FW400 G4 both drives are running very slow for transferring files, both onto and off, usually in the first 30 seconds, then the speed picks up but still nowhere near as fast as they used to be. I will be formatting the drives again and am confident that will fix but just seems a bit strange. Also, there's something weird going on with USB, it (the fw800 machine) doesn't seem to like more than two devices (in my case a hub for keyboard and mouse and a midi transmitter) being operational at the same time.
I have yet to get round to testing the system thoroughly, there was too much other stuff to do, and at the end of the day it works.
Apart from those things this is a wonderful thing. Thank you!

[Angelgreat]

I'm late in announcing this, but Action Retro featured the fw800iso for his video on the FW800 MDD. Here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZVI9vum6f4

To be honest, he says it works like a regular FW400 MDD with OS9, except with the 400 ports not working and the 800 ports working but seen as a 400 ports.

[Metrophage]

I eventually wasn't able to use my FW800 anymore, so tonight I am going over it to understand why it won't boot.

What I think happened is that after I applied an Open Firmware patch, it won't boot without it. Except that the PSU can be flaky so sometimes I need to leave the system unplugged, and then it loses its patch. Since the patches are no longer necessary with hacked ROMs, I should probably figure out a reverse patch to make it stock again. It was years ago, I don't remember what I did!

Either that it's my typical luck of MDDs having RAM flakiness.