Author Topic: Mac Os 9 booting on: G4 Tower MDD FW800 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 118840 times)

Offline Mat

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #150 on: May 30, 2014, 08:11:53 PM »
Wow, I thought first it is the next one of the houndreds of threads outside that ends with the conclusion that it is not possible at all. I am really stunned that you got Mac OS 9 running at unsupported FW 800 G4s. Great work!

Before trying G5s (what I expect to be much harder, but who knows), is there some brave person outside who might try it with one of the later G4 Powerbooks? This would be a very huge improvement for us 9 users as the later 2005/2006 models have twice of the performance of the "officially Mac OS 9 bootable" Powerbooks. A 1670MHz G4 Book with 167MHz systembus a 128MB graphiccard and 1,5 GB of 4200 DDR SDRAM sounds like a hell of a 9-machine! ;)

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #151 on: May 31, 2014, 02:52:44 AM »
... about FW800 Mac Os 9 booting:
-No Fw800, No USB 2... but I had read long time ago that this is posible.
:) :)


... about later G4 Powerbooks Mac Os 9 booting:
There was a half-successful try. I can try to find the info but this must be posted in a new topic if interested...

... about first G5s Mac Os 9 booting:
In short: imposible.
A very different northbrige, and lot of different moderboard components...
There was some unsuccessful works. I can try to find the info but this must be posted in a new topic also if interested...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #152 on: May 31, 2014, 03:58:48 AM »
hmmm just checked the powerbooks that came after the 1ghz

models incl: 1.25ghz, 1.33ghz, 1.5ghz, 1.67ghz

would be amazing to have a portable 1.67ghz g4 running os 9!!!!
who on the board has any of these powerbooks>???

Offline cyberish

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #153 on: June 01, 2014, 11:44:48 AM »
Hi Chris

I've got one of those 1,67 ghz Powerbooks and I would love to have a native Mac OS 9 on it  ;D

Are then the only two things to consider to install from another Mac OS 9 machine the apple hd driver and then to implant that MacOS ROM  9.8.1 on it?

I want to try soonish

raphael

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #154 on: June 01, 2014, 06:35:51 PM »
cyberish i suggest u re-read the thread and the relevant info will become clear for you;)

Offline cyberish

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #155 on: June 02, 2014, 12:20:48 AM »
... i just did  :o thx

Offline Cloaked Alien

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #156 on: June 13, 2014, 07:26:30 AM »
Jumping in here! I've got an old iMac G4 (the iLamp). Not 100% sure right now but I think it's the 1GHz 17" model which can't run OS9. The machine is pretty much without purpose right now since I can't find any good use for it. I'd be one happy camper if I got OS 9 running on it!

I've skimmed through the thread and I understand it that it might be possible to downgrade the firmware even on this model?

I'm savvy enough to install Lubuntu / OS X dual boot on it. I also own a G4 Cube that runs OS 9. For obvious reasons I'd prefer to have the Globe running OS9.

While I expect to get told to read the entire thread again I'm hoping I could get some quick advice on the futility of my goal. This machine deserves some proper love for sure!

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #157 on: June 13, 2014, 08:17:03 AM »
As there is some people interested in to Mac os 9 boot on other unsupported Macs I'll open new threads to discuss each specific model issues, and to keep this important thread in to his original sense "MDD Firewire 800" and to solve further questions on this topic.

So for Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 please post on :
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1173.0

and for Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iBook G4 please post on:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1174.0

and for Mac Os 9 boot on other unsupported models, please open new threads...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #158 on: June 13, 2014, 07:49:38 PM »
While I expect to get told to read the entire thread again I'm hoping I could get some quick advice on the futility of my goal. This machine deserves some proper love for sure!

its not futile at all
the first challenge is locating a firmware file for the G4 imac that DOES support os9..
if one is not posted online somehow u must find an actual g4 imac physically and use the openfirmware FORTH language to dump its rom file to a file
this is possible but would require some education on the openfirmware language (mac forth)
or perhaps there is one posted in the same way that the other fw400 MDD rom update was found..
perhaps theres a repository of firmware updates somewhere?

Offline Cloaked Alien

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #159 on: June 14, 2014, 03:52:39 AM »
So for Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 please post on :
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1173.0

Thank you! I'll continue my post there and I hope others will join in =)

Offline SnakeCoils

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #160 on: June 17, 2014, 01:25:13 PM »
I re-join this thread to ask to FW800 users still with original firmware (non OS9 bootable) if after throwing to a dedicated (OS9 drivers blessed) partition the OS9General.dmg from MDD2003 and replacing the Mac OS ROM with the v9.5.1 modded in the other iMac thread their machine becomes OS9 bootable and fully functional: if verified there will be no more need to flash the FW800 with the MDD2003 firmware. Could someone kindly do this experiment? Many thanks in advance :-)

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #161 on: June 17, 2014, 02:03:36 PM »
Maybe changing MacRISC # with a few Open Firmware commands is all we needed...
The process is showed here:
http://luttztfz.wordpress.com/tag/open-firmware-hack/
... but in the opposite direction...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #162 on: June 18, 2014, 08:02:33 PM »
Just an update on my MDD dual 1.42 with a rolled back firmware version for anyone who is interested.

The firewire800 ports and the firewire 400 are working without any problems now with a DVD-RAM on the firewire400 port and a HD on the firewire800 port.

Was having trouble previously with the firewire 400 ports so don't know what happened?

The system feels more stable than before don't know why but everything just works well.

Anyway take it easy peoples...:-)


supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #163 on: June 18, 2014, 08:34:34 PM »
Code: [Select]
” PowerBook2,2″ encode-string ” MacRISC” encode-string encode+ ” MacRISC2″ encode-string encode+ ” Power Macintosh” encode-string encode+ ” compatible” property
Quote
It is based on FORTH, a programming language, where the actual command what to do with a value follows that value. (Like calculating with a HP-28.) So ” PowerBook2,2″ is the string, and encode-string is what to do with it.

^^ this is the real reason why not many people are able to do much with open firmware..
not understanding the structure of the commands.. this is very much backward to every other style of programming/scripting we are familiar with these days in both dos/win + unix/mac

we are used to [command] [values] [switches]
and this language's structure, as illusrtated in the above quote...
is set up like this: [values] [command]
totally backward
this sheds alot of light on the situation for me!
 ;D

i guess the + operator simply means "append this value to the last" such as the "." operator is used in many ecmascript/javascript .. concatenating many strings to a longer string value.

it is a strange language with a unique structure.

if anyone was truly interested in mastering its structure this would be a good book to start with
http://www.amazon.com/MacFORTH-Programming-hands-introduction-programming/dp/B00071QF1K



the megawolf site says something about them obtaining "macforth" >
Quote
MegaWolf is very pleased to announce that it has acquired the MacForth programming environment!! For more details, go to www.macforth.com
http://www.megawolf.com/

Offline DieHard

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #164 on: June 18, 2014, 09:30:56 PM »
Seeing how much this thread has evolved… I will now make a prediction…

By 2015 it will we 18 pages long and the last page will have a post about success with a Dual 2.7 CPU G5 running Mac OS 9.2.2 !!

But I regret to say it will only have 16 colors available and have no working ports (Firewire or USB), No Audio and No ethernet…

but who cares about all that crap… it will be the fastest OS 9 Machine ever :)

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #165 on: June 19, 2014, 01:40:53 AM »
i used to believe in 'wierd' errors before i knew more about programming.back in my youngre days
but the more i looked the more i realized theres always something u dont understand thats actually going on
and that 99.9% of the time  theres an actual reason as to why something happened.. or doesnt work etc.

nowadays i usually approach things with that belief! and u just gotta keep asking the right questions
that lead u to that better more indepth understanding or answer!

re: this thread;
Just goes to show.. more heads are better then 1;)


http://www.macforth.com/

this page is pretty basic but at least it shows that the owner of megawolf.com is still alive its dated 2014!
(even tho they dont answer their customer support emails)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 01:56:42 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline IIO

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #166 on: July 27, 2014, 02:00:24 PM »

dont know if it has ben said aready, but i also believe to know that it is two things you need:

 - the ROM from the classic enviroment .dmg which came with the fw800 computer

 - mac os9 harddisk drivers, which you can only get on your fw800´s HDs by connecting them to a "real" os9 machine.

i haver never tried it myself though, mainly because i dont see the need to replace a apple dual 1.25 with a apple dual 1.4 when there are sonnet dual 1.6´s for "real" os9 computers (also for ZIP when i am not wrong, and the older sonnet dual 1.8 were even ZIP only)

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #167 on: July 27, 2014, 02:14:53 PM »
By 2015 it will we 18 pages long and the last page will have a post about success with a Dual 2.7 CPU G5 running Mac OS 9.2.2 !!

But I regret to say it will only have 16 colors available and have no working ports (Firewire or USB), No Audio and No ethernet…

lol, but will launch simpletext faster than ever, even when infected with sevendust. :)

-110
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #168 on: August 13, 2014, 12:00:47 PM »
back to the topic..
did anyone ever try this with a powerbook g4 (2005)?

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_1.67_17_hr.html
would be awesome to have a 1.6ghz powerbook os9 booting?
surely the same thing can be done IF we can find a compatible firmware downgrade?

both 2004 + 2005 powerbooks have radeon 9700 or geforce fx5200 video tho..
and the 2003 powerbooks had radeon 9600 but some had gf4mx


http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_capability/macs-that-support-macos-9-classic.html
lists the most powerful os9 bootable powerbook at 800mhz (radeon 7500)
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_800_dvi.html

Quote
Introduction Date:    April 29, 2002    Discontinued Date:    November 6, 2002

but http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers/mac-os-9-classic-support-faq/last-macs-to-boot-startup-macos-9.html
lists the fastest as the g4 1ghz ti (radeon 9000)
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_1.0.html
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 12:13:25 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #169 on: August 13, 2014, 04:12:20 PM »
back to the topic..


http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers/mac-os-9-classic-support-faq/last-macs-to-boot-startup-macos-9.html
lists the fastest as the g4 1ghz ti (radeon 9000)
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g4/specs/powerbook_g4_1.0.html

I agree, the next target should be Alu PowerBooks VS TI PowerBooks but on OTHER post.
iBooksG4 can not boot OS9 as ALU PB

As there is some people interested in to Mac os 9 boot on other unsupported Macs I'll open new threads to discuss each specific model issues, and to keep this important thread in to his original sense "MDD Firewire 800" and to solve further questions on this topic.

So for Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iMac G4 please post on :
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1173.0

and for Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported iBook G4 please post on:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1174.0

and for Mac Os 9 boot on other unsupported models, please open new threads...
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #170 on: September 25, 2014, 08:48:39 PM »
i believe it would be possible to use openfirmware programming in forth language to extract and save out copy of existing firmware
from any mac g4 . ie: emac, powerbook, ibook, imac
meaning that any non-mac os 9 booting mac that has another similar model in its range/series that can boot os 9
can be enabled to boot os 9 by overwriting its firmware with this older model, or if we really had someone with some real hacking expertise..these firmwares could be hacked without even copying the old, and simply 'flicking the switch' back on that apple purposely turned off - thats right we know now for certain there was no real hardware limitation that forced them to be incompatible this was a purposefull thing they did not want anyone continuing to use the classic mac os.. they buried it;) so since its discarded we can feel no guilt in digging it up;)

we got lucky in that there was a downloadable firmware already existing as an easy download in this scenario
but i believe the same techniques can be extended to make powerbook boot mac os9
and also the 2005 emac with 1.42 cpu

theresa huge list of macs that support 'classic mode only'
and they are all more powerful then any other mac os 9 computer

we have solved only 3 of these;) who is thirsty for more?
 8)
Quote
all g4s that support classic mode but not booting
eMac G4/1.25 (USB 2.0)
Intro. Date:    April 13, 2004         Disc. Date:    May 3, 2005
Order No:    M9425LL/A*         Model No:    A1002
Subfamily:    eMac USB 2.0         Model ID:    PowerMac6,4
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    40, 80 GB         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"*
eMac G4/1.42 (2005)
Intro. Date:    May 3, 2005         Disc. Date:    October 12, 2005*
Order No:    M9834LL/A*         Model No:    A1002
Subfamily:    eMac 2005         Model ID:    PowerMac6,4
Std. RAM:    256 MB, 512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80, 160 GB         Std. Optical:    12X "Combo Drive"*


iBook G4/800 12-Inch (Original - Op)
Intro. Date:    October 22, 2003         Disc. Date:    April 19, 2004
Order No:    M9164LL/A         Model No:    A1054
Subfamily:    iBook G4         Model ID:    PowerBook6,3
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    30.0 GB         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
iBook G4/933 14-Inch (Original - Op)
Intro. Date:    October 22, 2003         Disc. Date:    April 19, 2004
Order No:    M9388LL/A         Model No:    A1055
Subfamily:    iBook G4 14-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,3
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    40.0 GB         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
iBook G4/1.0 14-Inch (Original - Op)
Intro. Date:    October 22, 2003         Disc. Date:    April 19, 2004
Order No:    M9165LL/A         Model No:    A1055
Subfamily:    iBook G4 14-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,3
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    60.0 GB         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
iBook G4/1.0 12-Inch (Early 2004 - Op)
Intro. Date:    April 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    October 19, 2004
Order No:    M9426LL/A         Model No:    A1054
Subfamily:    Early 2004         Model ID:    PowerBook6,5
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    30 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
iBook G4/1.0 14-Inch (Early 2004 - Op)
Intro. Date:    April 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    October 19, 2004
Order No:    M9418LL/A         Model No:    A1055
Subfamily:    Early 2004 14-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,5
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    40 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
iBook G4/1.2 14-Inch (Early 2004 - Op)
Intro. Date:    April 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    October 19, 2004
Order No:    M9419LL/A         Model No:    A1055
Subfamily:    Early 2004 14-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,5
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
iBook G4/1.2 12-Inch (Late 2004 - Op)
Intro. Date:    October 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    July 26, 2005
Order No:    M9623LL/A         Model No:    A1054
Subfamily:    Late 2004 12-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,5
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    30 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
iBook G4/1.33 14-Inch (Late 2004 - Op)
Intro. Date:    October 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    July 26, 2005
Order No:    M9627LL/A*         Model No:    A1055
Subfamily:    Late 2004 14-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,5
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"*
iBook G4/1.33 12-Inch (Mid-2005 - Op)
Intro. Date:    July 26, 2005         Disc. Date:    May 16, 2006
Order No:    M9846LL/A         Model No:    A1133
Subfamily:    Mid-2005 12-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,7
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    40 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
iBook G4/1.42 14-Inch (Mid-2005 - Op)
Intro. Date:    July 26, 2005         Disc. Date:    May 16, 2006
Order No:    M9848LL/A         Model No:    A1134
Subfamily:    Mid-2005 14-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,7
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    4X "SuperDrive"


iMac G4/800 - X Only (Flat Panel)
Intro. Date:    February 4, 2003         Disc. Date:    September 8, 2003
Order No:    M9105LL/A         Model No:    M6498
Subfamily:    iMac Spring 2003         Model ID:    PowerMac4,2
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (7200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    32X "Combo Drive"
iMac G4/1.0 17-Inch (Flat Panel)
Intro. Date:    February 4, 2003         Disc. Date:    September 8, 2003
Order No:    M8935LL/A         Model No:    M6498
Subfamily:    iMac 17" 1 GHz         Model ID:    PowerMac6,1
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (7200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    4X "SuperDrive"
iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch "FP" (USB 2.0)
Intro. Date:    September 8, 2003         Disc. Date:    July 1, 2004
Order No:    M9285LL/A         Model No:    N/A
Subfamily:    iMac USB 2.0         Model ID:    PowerMac6,1
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (7200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    32X "Combo Drive"
iMac G4/1.25 17-Inch "FP" (USB 2.0)
Intro. Date:    September 8, 2003         Disc. Date:    July 1, 2004
Order No:    M9168LL/A         Model No:    N/A
Subfamily:    iMac USB 2.0         Model ID:    PowerMac6,1
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (7200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    4X "SuperDrive"
iMac G4/1.25 20-Inch "FP" (USB 2.0)
Intro. Date:    November 18, 2003         Disc. Date:    July 1, 2004
Order No:    M9290LL/A         Model No:    N/A
Subfamily:    iMac USB 2.0         Model ID:    PowerMac6,3
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (7200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    4X "SuperDrive"


Mac mini G4/1.42
Intro. Date:    January 11, 2005*         Disc. Date:    September 27, 2005
Order No:    M9687LL/A*         Model No:    A1103
Subfamily:    Mac mini         Model ID:    PowerMac10,1
Std. RAM:    256 MB, 512 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    80.0 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
Mac mini G4/1.33
Intro. Date:    September 27, 2005         Disc. Date:    February 28, 2006
Order No:    M9686LL/B*         Model No:    A1103
Subfamily:    Late 2005         Model ID:    PowerMac10,2
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    40.0 GB (5400 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
Mac mini G4/1.5
Intro. Date:    September 27, 2005         Disc. Date:    February 28, 2006
Order No:    M9687LL/B*         Model No:    A1103
Subfamily:    Late 2005         Model ID:    PowerMac10,2
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80.0 GB (5400 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"


PowerBook G4 867 12" (Al)
Intro. Date:    January 7, 2003         Disc. Date:    September 16, 2003
Order No:    M8760LL/A         Model No:    A1010
Subfamily:    12-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook6,1
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    40 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
PowerBook G4 1.0 17" (Al)
Intro. Date:    January 7, 2003         Disc. Date:    September 16, 2003
Order No:    M8793LL/A         Model No:    A1013
Subfamily:    17-Inch         Model ID:    PowerBook5,1
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    2X "SuperDrive"
PowerBook G4 1.0 12" (DVI - Al)
Intro. Date:    September 16, 2003         Disc. Date:    April 19, 2004
Order No:    M9007LL/A*         Model No:    A1010
Subfamily:    12-Inch DVI         Model ID:    PowerBook6,2
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    32 MB
Std. HD:    40 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"*
PowerBook G4 1.0 15" (FW800 - Al)
Intro. Date:    September 16, 2003         Disc. Date:    April 19, 2004
Order No:    M8980LL/A         Model No:    A1046
Subfamily:    15-Inch FW800         Model ID:    PowerBook5,2
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
PowerBook G4 1.25 15" (FW800 - Al)
Intro. Date:    September 16, 2003         Disc. Date:    April 19, 2004
Order No:    M8981LL/A         Model No:    A1046
Subfamily:    15-Inch FW800         Model ID:    PowerBook5,2
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    2X "SuperDrive"
PowerBook G4 1.33 17" (Al)
Intro. Date:    September 16, 2003         Disc. Date:    April 19, 2004
Order No:    M9110LL/A         Model No:    A1052
Subfamily:    17-Inch 1.33 GHz         Model ID:    PowerBook5,3
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    2X "SuperDrive"
PowerBook G4 1.33 12" (Al)
Intro. Date:    April 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    January 31, 2005
Order No:    M9183LL/A*         Model No:    A1010
Subfamily:    12-Inch 1.33 GHz         Model ID:    PowerBook6,4
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"*
PowerBook G4 1.33 15" (Al)
Intro. Date:    April 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    January 31, 2005
Order No:    M9421LL/A         Model No:    A1095
Subfamily:    15-Inch 1.5/1.33         Model ID:    PowerBook5,4
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
PowerBook G4 1.5 15" (Al)
Intro. Date:    April 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    January 31, 2005
Order No:    M9422LL/A         Model No:    A1095
Subfamily:    15-Inch 1.5/1.33         Model ID:    PowerBook5,4
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    4X "SuperDrive"
PowerBook G4 1.5 17" (Al)
Intro. Date:    April 19, 2004         Disc. Date:    January 31, 2005
Order No:    M9462LL/A         Model No:    A1085
Subfamily:    17-Inch 1.5 GHz         Model ID:    PowerBook5,5
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (4200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    4X "SuperDrive"
PowerBook G4 1.5 12" (Al)
Intro. Date:    January 31, 2005         Disc. Date:    May 16, 2006*
Order No:    M9690LL/A*         Model No:    A1104
Subfamily:    12-Inch 1.5 GHz         Model ID:    PowerBook6,8
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    60, 80 GB (5400 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"*
PowerBook G4 1.5 15" (SMS/BT2 - Al)
Intro. Date:    January 31, 2005         Disc. Date:    October 19, 2005
Order No:    M9676LL/A         Model No:    A1106
Subfamily:    15-Inch 1.67/1.5         Model ID:    PowerBook5,6
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (5400 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "Combo Drive"
PowerBook G4 1.67 15" (Al)
Intro. Date:    January 31, 2005         Disc. Date:    October 19, 2005
Order No:    M9677LL/A         Model No:    A1106
Subfamily:    15-Inch 1.67/1.5         Model ID:    PowerBook5,6
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (5400 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "SuperDrive"
PowerBook G4 1.67 17" (Al)
Intro. Date:    January 31, 2005         Disc. Date:    October 19, 2005
Order No:    M9689LL/A         Model No:    A1107
Subfamily:    17-Inch 1.67 GHz         Model ID:    PowerBook5,7
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    128 MB
Std. HD:    100 GB (5400 RPM)         Std. Optical:    8X "SuperDrive"
PowerBook G4 1.67 15" (DLSD/HR - Al)
Intro. Date:    October 19, 2005         Disc. Date:    January 10, 2006*
Order No:    M9969LL/A         Model No:    A1138
Subfamily:    15-Inch DL SD         Model ID:    PowerBook5,8
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    128 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (5400 RPM)         Std. Optical:    2.4X DL "SuperDrive"
PowerBook G4 1.67 17" (DLSD/HR - Al)
Intro. Date:    October 19, 2005         Disc. Date:    April 24, 2006
Order No:    M9970LL/A         Model No:    A1139
Subfamily:    17-Inch DL SD         Model ID:    PowerBook5,9
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    128 MB
Std. HD:    120 GB (5400 RPM)         Std. Optical:    2.4X DL "SuperDrive"


Power Macintosh G4 1.0 (FW 800)
Intro. Date:    January 28, 2003         Disc. Date:    June 23, 2003
Order No:    M8839LL/A         Model No:    M8570
Subfamily:    Firewire 800         Model ID:    PowerMac3,6
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    60 GB (7200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    12X "Combo Drive"
Power Macintosh G4 1.25 DP (FW 800)
Intro. Date:    January 28, 2003         Disc. Date:    June 23, 2003
Order No:    M8840LL/A         Model No:    M8570
Subfamily:    Firewire 800         Model ID:    PowerMac3,6
Std. RAM:    256 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    80 GB (7200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    12X "Combo Drive"
Power Macintosh G4 1.42 DP (FW 800)
Intro. Date:    January 28, 2003         Disc. Date:    June 23, 2003
Order No:    M8841LL/A         Model No:    M8570
Subfamily:    Firewire 800         Model ID:    PowerMac3,6
Std. RAM:    512 MB         Std. VRAM:    64 MB
Std. HD:    120 GB (7200 RPM)         Std. Optical:    4X "SuperDrive"

who will be the first to boot mac os 9 on some of these machines? emac, ibook, imac, powerbook -- these are all waiting to be set free;)
the powerbooks + the ibooks.. so many models

iBook G4/1.42 14" screen


iMac G4/1.25 20" screen


PowerBook G4 1.67 17" screen
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 09:07:44 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #171 on: September 27, 2014, 01:55:52 PM »
ok that last list was a bit much to handle
heres a minimized list version of all macs that were blocked from booting mac os 9 (X only)

eMac G4/1.25 (USB 2.0)
eMac G4/1.42 (2005)

iBook G4/800 12-Inch (Original - Op)
iBook G4/933 14-Inch (Original - Op)
iBook G4/1.0 14-Inch (Original - Op)
iBook G4/1.0 12-Inch (Early 2004 - Op)
iBook G4/1.0 14-Inch (Early 2004 - Op)
iBook G4/1.2 14-Inch (Early 2004 - Op)
iBook G4/1.2 12-Inch (Late 2004 - Op)
iBook G4/1.33 14-Inch (Late 2004 - Op)
iBook G4/1.33 12-Inch (Mid-2005 - Op)
iBook G4/1.42 14-Inch (Mid-2005 - Op)

iMac G4/800 - X Only (Flat Panel)
iMac G4/1.0 17-Inch (Flat Panel)
iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch "FP" (USB 2.0)
iMac G4/1.25 17-Inch "FP" (USB 2.0)
iMac G4/1.25 20-Inch "FP" (USB 2.0)

Mac mini G4/1.42
Mac mini G4/1.33
Mac mini G4/1.5

PowerBook G4 867 12" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.0 17" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.0 12" (DVI - Al)
PowerBook G4 1.0 15" (FW800 - Al)
PowerBook G4 1.25 15" (FW800 - Al)
PowerBook G4 1.33 17" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.33 12" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.33 15" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.5 15" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.5 17" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.5 12" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.5 15" (SMS/BT2 - Al)

PowerBook G4 1.67 15" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.67 17" (Al)
PowerBook G4 1.67 15" (DLSD/HR - Al)
PowerBook G4 1.67 17" (DLSD/HR - Al)


Power Macintosh G4 1.0 (FW 800) *** unlocked
Power Macintosh G4 1.25 DP (FW 800) *** unlocked
Power Macintosh G4 1.42 DP (FW 800) *** unlocked
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 03:17:09 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #172 on: September 27, 2014, 03:26:57 PM »
ive been reviewing some threads on 68kmla that seem to indicate there are a number of utilities that are able to flash firmware + also talk of a few that are able to save a copy of the firmware made by 3rd party cpu producers like powerlogix

heres an update for the 500-600mhz powerbook g4s (mac os 9 bootable)
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1141


pic of the powerbook g4 667mhz (os9 bootable)

the firmware update requires that you be booted into 9 but i read that there was a way to inject the firmware
by having the file on the drive and installing it via openfirmware which would bypass the version checking that would
take place by mac os 9... the real flashing happens ont he openfirmware level anyway.. so this is similar in theory to how one would open an osx installer app by displaying the contents of a package and directly launching an executable that gets called after the implemented version checks..

the procedure for writing the rom file was already detailed to us by blitter on this thread..
it should be pretty much the same thing to do it on a powerbook rather then a desktop g4.

question is, could flashing a powerbook above 1ghz with a firmware from a 667mhz powerbook
render the powerbook unbootable.. ? i think in this case the benefit to figuring htis out would outweigh the risk!!!!!
especially if a powerbook could be attained for under 50$ which is possible only pretty much for powerbooks under 1ghz
people still are asking 100-200$ for the g4 powerbooks in the 1.x ghz range in my area

it might be worthwhile to find a way to extract the firmware from 1 ghz powerbook g4 somehow
and save that to a file.. like i stated before i think this is totally possible in openfirmware but would require
some skill + perfect execution

and of cousre the only reason why we havent seen these running os 9 yet is.. noone has tried;)
and the cpus are soldered to the motherboard i think otherwise someone would have already swapped a cpu
from a 1.67 into a 1.0ghz


pic of the powerbook g4 1.0ghz
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 03:37:27 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #173 on: September 30, 2014, 07:00:08 PM »
Hi Chris

I've got one of those 1,67 ghz Powerbooks and I would love to have a native Mac OS 9 on it  ;D

Are then the only two things to consider to install from another Mac OS 9 machine the apple hd driver and then to implant that MacOS ROM  9.8.1 on it?

I want to try soonish

raphael

hey raphael... are u ready to try this?
we should begin by comparing your model to the last os9 booting model..are there any large hardware differences?
or are they very similar?


Offline blemk

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #175 on: November 09, 2014, 04:02:48 PM »
So, first post (should just introduce myself where appropriate)... But been following this thread and a few on other forums for some time and finally caved and purchased a MDD FW800 (and a board from a FW400 I was luck enough to find and put into the FW800 case) so I could run classic. Basically, purchased the machine strictly to run OS 9.2.2 as it was the last OS I ran on my Sonnet G3 upgraded Performance 6400/6500 back in 1997.

Reason I tell that story, as it might be related as 9.2.2 was not meant to run on that Mac (with G3 upgrade or not)... But back then there were a few tricks that later became part of a tool to run Mac OS 9.2.x on older Macs. The search for similar info led me to an interesting thread on another forum in the last few months that many of you may want to take a glance at:

https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?id=46

Figure it might be a good way to get both forums/threads working together.


Update:
MacTron beat me to it -> http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1967.0
Only had the Mac at home (incomplete, dead pram battery etc) for about 2 weeks and I am falling behind before I even get to start.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 04:16:34 PM by blemk »

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #176 on: November 09, 2014, 04:48:20 PM »
blemk:
u didnt need to buy the fw400 board...
the whole pt of the thread was
that proper os9 booting was disabled by apple at the firmware level on purpose..
we have provided a workaround..
to avoid swapping cpus or motherboards..

but of course u are free to do what u feel is appropriate!

btw welcome to the site ;)

Offline blemk

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #177 on: November 09, 2014, 10:58:41 PM »
Yeah, the FW400 board though guaranteed a working OS 9 machine though. As much as I want to study why the FW800 board, I wanted a OS 9 machine for sure plus planned on doing some lower level hardware modifications (adding dipswitches for clock adjustments, experimenting with making a water block mount for water cooling).. And I got it for less than $20.   ;D

If I don't damage the board(s) in any way, plan is to go back to the FW800 board for native Bluetooth and 802.11g, and will likely make a second machine out of the parts I have left from this endeavor.

Having both handy allows for comparison as well.

Thank you for the welcome. Look forward to reading/chatting. Would love to work out some of the issues that come with cross flashing the FW400 firmware on to the FW800 (small, but would rather have all the FW ports working in Classic as the point of the mod is to run Classic it makes more sense to have everything functional there vs in Mac OS X). If it can be done without firmware flash or hardware mod, al the better.

I think someone asked or commented that they could not confirm this, anyone flash the firmware here yet that has an airport extreme card and/or Bluetooth module? Do they work properly in Classic and/or Mac OS X?

Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #178 on: November 11, 2014, 10:26:40 AM »
Reason I tell that story, as it might be related as 9.2.2 was not meant to run on that Mac (with G3 upgrade or not)... But back then there were a few tricks that later became part of a tool to run Mac OS 9.2.x on older Macs. The search for similar info led me to an interesting thread on another forum in the last few months that many of you may want to take a glance at:

https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?id=46

Figure it might be a good way to get both forums/threads working together.


I suppose I should introduce myself. I'm a site administrator over at ThinkClassic and the author of that thread. I was also iMac600 over at the 68kMLA forums, but I haven't been active there in quite some time.

It's been a while since I explored booting Mac OS 9 on that iBook G4. After reading this thread and some of the suggestions put forward here, I've managed to successfully boot Mac OS 9.2 on the iBook. It's not perfect, and there's still a few issues to be resolved, but I'm optimistic that it should be possible to get it to a usable state.

https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?id=46

I'll continue posting more information as I work on it.

Unfortunately I don't have a FW800 MDD to perform any tests with. Perhaps this information may be of use to someone though, and if anyone's successful in installing and booting OS 9 on an unsupported machine, I'd be thrilled to hear it.


Thanks,

iMic.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #179 on: November 11, 2014, 10:52:49 AM »
I suppose I should introduce myself. I'm a site administrator over at ThinkClassic and the author of that thread. I was also iMac600 over at the 68kMLA forums, but I haven't been active there in quite some time.

Welcome iMic and congratulations for your great job at https://www.thinkclassic.org

I have copy/pasted some of your work here, just for archiving purpose and ofcourse, pointing  the source.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 11:45:07 AM by MacTron »
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #180 on: November 11, 2014, 11:27:43 AM »
No problem, something like this should be archived in as many places as possible. :)

I've posted a few updates to that thread in the last half hour or so. Mac OS 9.2 is now successfully booting to a usable system on an iBook G4/800MHz, which is pretty remarkable. It's still somewhat "hacky" though. It relies on some Open Firmware commands stored in the NVRAM to make the machine boot and to bypass an issue that holds the internal display at 640 x 480. I'm fairly certain that hardware video acceleration isn't working still as well, so everything runs on the software renderer. Not perfect for anything graphics intensive, but probably still adequate for some applications.

Ideally, I'd be able to find where the issues that the OF commands address lie in the Mac OS ROM and System Suitcase and fix them so I could do away with the need for the Open Firmware commands entirely. That would make the install reasonably reliable (a flat PRAM battery wouldn't render the system un-bootable, for starters).

I also have an iMac G4/1GHz 17" that is OS X-only that I'd be interested to try this on once I have it working correctly. One machine at a time though. :)


Cheers,

iMic.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #181 on: November 11, 2014, 11:43:10 AM »
Ideally, I'd be able to find where the issues that the OF commands address lie in the Mac OS ROM and System Suitcase and fix them so I could do away with the need for the Open Firmware commands entirely.

Here is where I've placed some of your work:
take a look at Reply #4

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1967.msg9998#msg9998

So, maybe we already have some of those Open Firmware commands...
I'm waiting for an xServe G4 to test it, and a few things more:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1964.msg10043#msg10043
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #182 on: November 12, 2014, 12:27:57 PM »
I'm cross-posting this from ThinkClassic since I think it's something everyone here may find interesting.


I've compiled all of the fixes in the TC forum thread into a Generic ROM, based off the Mac OS ROM version 10.2.1. The Generic ROM lacks any machine-specific checks (no looking for specific PowerMacX,X or PowerBookX,X identifiers) and is capable of initiating the startup process on any one of the following systems:

  • MacRISC -  Most OldWorld PowerPC Macintosh systems and possibly clones.
  • MacRISC2 - NewWorld PowerPC systems manufactured prior to the Mac OS X switch.
  • MacRISC3 - NewWorld PowerPC systems designed to only boot into Mac OS X.
  • MacRISC4 - PowerPC 970 "G5" based Macintosh computers.
  • Classic - The Mac OS X Classic Environment.

This doesn't guarantee that Mac OS 9 will start on your particular hardware configuration, nor does it provide accurate hardware support. Machines like the Power Mac G4 MDD FireWire 800 and iMac G4 Flat Panel 17"/1GHz are more likely to be supported for example, while machines like the Power Mac G5 are basically guaranteed not to work at all.

In addition, hardware support is more likely when you are running the most up-to-date versions of system extensions and drivers. Even some well known Mac OS 9 distributions, such as the common OS9General image, still use older versions of extensions like the Apple Audio Extension. Aim for the absolute latest disk you can. Personally, I used the 922DragInstall for the purposes of testing and it seemed to work well.


An alternate method is still required to format the drive in your Mac to include the Mac OS 9 disk drivers. You can do this by faking your machine identifier to include MacRISC / MacRISC2 in Open Firmware, like so...

Code: [Select]
dev /
.properties
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " model" property
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRiSC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property
multi-boot

...making sure to replace PowerBook4,3 with your machines' ID, then booting from an OS X install disc (the option for Mac OS 9 disk drivers will then be visible in Disk Utility). Alternatively you can connect your machine to an older OS 9 supported Mac via FireWire Target Disk Mode and format the drive from there.


This Generic ROM can be distinguished from the standard version by the differences in its version numbers. Get Info will display the version as Mac OS CPU Software 5.9 (Generic), and System Profiler and About This Mac will display the version as Mac OS ROM 10.2.1 (Generic).


Download

https://app.box.com/s/c98w8ine81ublultkuwp (2.6MB .SIT Archive)

Please be aware that this is not a permanent link. If someone here at Mac OS 9 Lives is willing to store it somewhere a little more permanent, that would be fantastic.




Mac OS 9.2.2 running on an iBook G4/800MHz with the Generic 10.2.1 ROM.


As always, pictures and a breakdown of what modifications were required and how they were achieved is available in the forum thread over on ThinkClassic, and if anyone wants to note it down or keep a version here for archival purposes, that's also more than welcome.

Hopefully this helps to get Mac OS 9 running on some of those FW800 Power Macs as well.


Cheers, :D

iMic.

Offline blemk

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #183 on: November 12, 2014, 06:29:36 PM »
New to both of your forums.. Glad you two are messaging (cross positing hopefully not disliked/prohibited by either of you), again thank you both for two great forums relating to pre-X OS.

I have had a few minutes each night to play with incoming hardware. One of these past days this week, forgot which as I didn't get much time with it, someone hooked me up with a full FW400 machine (dual core 1.0 ghz).. With that said, I have case from FW400 and FW800 and two boards for first and 1 for later that both work. In the great situation to have one of each working (FW400 and FW800, FW800 needs to be put back together in it's original case)... Having both machines functioning will make testing quite a bit quicker as I can simply swap drives from one to the other now. Eager to at least help test if not become more involved sooner than later.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #184 on: November 12, 2014, 06:35:33 PM »
hey imic
sorry i didnt read that well..
but.. does this ibook hack work on any speed ibook?
or just the 800mhz?

i was offered one randomly the other day
but im not sure which speed it was.

Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #185 on: November 12, 2014, 07:14:22 PM »
It's a bit hit and miss to as what machines it'll work on. I all depends on what driver support Mac OS 9 has for the hardware it's running on. All this ROM does is remove the machine check that prevents Mac OS 9 from attempting to start up. Whether it successfully completes the boot is still up to the OS.

I tested it on an 800MHz iBook (PowerBook6,3), but it should also work on the 933MHz and 1GHz versions too. It may also work on the later 1.0/1.2/1.33GHz 2004 iBooks (PowerBook6,5) and the 1.33/1.42GHz 2005 iBooks (PowerBook6,7), but I simply don't have these machines to test with. Also keep in mind that even on my iBook, I needed to apply an Open Firmware trick to achieve 1024 x 768 resolution, and there aren't any drivers for the video hardware, so it's limited in its graphics capabilities.

This really is a "try it and see" type project, so if you're up for a challenge, then by all means go ahead and give it a shot.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #186 on: November 13, 2014, 07:23:35 AM »
Wow!
Great job with the Mac Os ROM.

I'm cross-posting this from ThinkClassic since I think it's something everyone here may find interesting.

Thank You for posting here your work.

It's a pain that this procedure did not worked with the Mac Mini. The Mother board layout is based on the Intrepid IC, and this IC is supported with Mac Os 9, so in my opinion, may be related with "enabling" the 7447 to Mac Os 9, in the way that some 7448/7447 CPU upgrades do...

It's a bit hit and miss to as what machines it'll work on. I all depends on what driver support Mac OS 9 has for the hardware it's running on. All this ROM does is remove the machine check that prevents Mac OS 9 from attempting to start up. Whether it successfully completes the boot is still up to the OS.

Checking the motherboard layout and all the components will help. Mainly the CPU and the North/South bridges. The motherboard name also helps to identification of similar or different models despite his commercial name.
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #187 on: November 13, 2014, 08:46:00 PM »
Quote
It's a pain that this procedure did not worked with the Mac Mini. The Mother board layout is based on the Intrepid IC, and this IC is supported with Mac Os 9, so in my opinion, may be related with "enabling" the 7447 to Mac Os 9, in the way that some 7448/7447 CPU upgrades

Here is a 7447a that works under OS 9 like you mentioned
http://www.newertech.com/downloads/nwtmang4max.pdf

Hey Mactron, I'm with you, the I/O controller (Intrepid) will most likely not be an obstacle, and the the Mac Mini G4 (1.25,1.33,1.42,1.5) all use a Radeon 9200 so these systems should be promising...(I was really bummed to see the grey screen on the Mac Mini tested, but the 1.5 is the only one with 64MB vram... we need to test a G4 1.25 Original)
https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?id=46

On many other unsupported G4s one of our greatest hurdle will be the graphics controller, no Graphics acceleration under OS9 will make or break us... We have made some awesome progress and I thank all of you, but for OS9 to be usable (especially in a DAW environment) we need to get a source to write us some new drivers for some of the basic Video Chip sets that currently elude us.

Also, for our DAW usefulness, the iBooks and iMacs will be more of a novelty, they lack the power (low cache) that we crave.... however, the iMac 17" 1.25 with a 167 bus could be a useful contender as a space saving DAW, so i would love to know if one of these gets fully going in OS 9
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_17_fp.html


Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #188 on: November 13, 2014, 10:38:25 PM »
It's a bit hit and miss to as what machines it'll work on. I all depends on what driver support Mac OS 9 has for the hardware it's running on. All this ROM does is remove the machine check that prevents Mac OS 9 from attempting to start up. Whether it successfully completes the boot is still up to the OS.

...

This really is a "try it and see" type project, so if you're up for a challenge, then by all means go ahead and give it a shot.

WOW  :o Where no Mac has been before...


...We need to get a source to write us some new drivers for some of the basic Video Chip sets that currently elude us.


I cannot believe how this post have evolved since I started it...

I have made a new post about developing graphics driver for OS9. Maybe we can go there too. Who knows?

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1985.0
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Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #189 on: November 14, 2014, 11:48:28 AM »
Quote
It's a pain that this procedure did not worked with the Mac Mini. The Mother board layout is based on the Intrepid IC, and this IC is supported with Mac Os 9, so in my opinion, may be related with "enabling" the 7447 to Mac Os 9, in the way that some 7448/7447 CPU upgrades

Here is a 7447a that works under OS 9 like you mentioned
http://www.newertech.com/downloads/nwtmang4max.pdf

Hey Mactron, I'm with you, the I/O controller (Intrepid) will most likely not be an obstacle, and the the Mac Mini G4 (1.25,1.33,1.42,1.5) all use a Radeon 9200 so these systems should be promising...(I was really bummed to see the grey screen on the Mac Mini tested, but the 1.5 is the only one with 64MB vram... we need to test a G4 1.25 Original)

I've attempted to apply some of the PowerLogix / NewerTech fixes on the Mac Mini that allows OS 9 to work with the 7447 CPU. Unfortunately, it still hangs at the grey screen.

https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?pid=3280#p3280

Not really sure where to go from here. Keep in mind that mine is a 1.5GHz last-generation model, which could be part of the problem.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #190 on: November 14, 2014, 11:58:11 AM »
Quote
Not really sure where to go from here...

iMic,

You have already inspired many, where ever you go from here is gravy... thank you for all the hard work... it reminds me of the days we used to use Norton disk edit in MS DOS to Hex out License keys from DBase software Applications (same concept to keep the file the same number of Bytes)... excellent work :)

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #191 on: November 14, 2014, 12:56:41 PM »

Not really sure where to go from here. Keep in mind that mine is a 1.5GHz last-generation model, which could be part of the problem.

The machines that left are eMac. Educacional Macs. They are iMacs with CRT and G4...
The first ones 700/800 models are able to boot 9.

This one http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/specs/emac_1.0.html is the easiest. It has the same hardware but if it has superdrive, is OSX only, and with Combo is OS9 able. For sure with your modded ROM DVD model should boot 9.

This http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/specs/emac_1.25.html is a maybe.

The real handicap is http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/specs/emac_1.42.html. This one have a ATI Radeon 9600 graphics with 64 MB of dedicated DDR SDRAM, as well as support for AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth (neither pre-installed) in an all-in-one case with a 17.0" (16.0" viewable area) CRT display (resolution support up to 1280x960 in 24-bit color). This thing would be the hardest for sure...
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #192 on: November 14, 2014, 12:57:31 PM »
Keep in mind that mine is a 1.5GHz last-generation model, which could be part of the problem.

According to:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/faq/differences-between-mac-mini-g4-models.html

The main difference of your Mac from previous models is the 64MB of VRAM.
This shouldn't have any bad effect. Ask to ClassicHasClass about this,(we have had some interactions in the past)  because he have the only case I know of a unofficial Radeon 9000 with 128 MB of VRAM, instead of the ordinary 64 MB, if I'm not wrong .


Not really sure where to go from here.

Taking a look to the block diagram:



I can suggest you to try to startup the machine from any means you can, ie CDROM, Firewire, USB...
May be you can circumvent the thing that can't let the Mac Os 9 boot.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 01:19:52 PM by MacTron »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #193 on: November 14, 2014, 01:37:05 PM »

Not really sure where to go from here. Keep in mind that mine is a 1.5GHz last-generation model, which could be part of the problem.
Is possible in openfirmware to limit the amount of the graphics RAM?

I only know of Radeon 9200 PCI working on G3s B&W on OS9. Not sure what drivers you should use for AGP. Maybe 2003' ATI drivers update...

Maybe just the MacMinis are not classics...  >:(  ;D

I am with DieHard. We need to test previous minis...

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supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #194 on: November 14, 2014, 03:53:13 PM »
I only know of Radeon 9200 PCI working on G3s B&W on OS9. Not sure what drivers you should use for AGP. Maybe 2003' ATI drivers update...

this topic has been discussed many times here... u should know.

Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #195 on: November 14, 2014, 03:58:03 PM »
I can suggest you to try to startup the machine from any means you can, ie CDROM, Firewire, USB...
May be you can circumvent the thing that can't let the Mac Os 9 boot.

I've tried booting from the internal hard drive and via FireWire. Still boots to a grey screen. There is also a property in Open Firmware under the graphics accelerator called "VRAM,totalsize" with a default value of 04000000 - I reduced this to 02000000 with no effect.


UPDATE

If I attempt to start Mac OS 9 from within Open Firmware (using boot hd:,\\:tbxi), I do manage to get some text output:



If that's a little difficult to read, it says:

Code: [Select]
, checksum error
Loading ELF

DO-QUIESCE finished

Disregard the Checksum Error. It's because I've modified the ROM to add the additional MacRISC strings. It continues loading even after the checksum error. I can see that Quiesce is called from within the ROM to Open Firmware during startup, but I can't see what should be executing after it, nor do I know what any of it does.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 04:27:57 PM by iMic »

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #196 on: November 14, 2014, 05:23:32 PM »
I can suggest you to try to startup the machine from any means you can, ie CDROM, Firewire, USB...
May be you can circumvent the thing that can't let the Mac Os 9 boot.

I've tried booting from the internal hard drive and via FireWire. Still boots to a grey screen. There is also a property in Open Firmware under the graphics accelerator called "VRAM,totalsize" with a default value of 04000000 - I reduced this to 02000000 with no effect.


UPDATE

If I attempt to start Mac OS 9 from within Open Firmware (using boot hd:,\\:tbxi), I do manage to get some text output:


Do you have the Blutooth or the Extreme cards installed?

Based on MacTron's MacMini there are LOTS of devices that you could "turnoff"  on Mini in OpenFirmware for testing purposes.


I mean, in the scenario where you have a FireWire or USB soundcard you could still build a OS9 DAW disabling a any or some of these:


Bluetooth card: There are bluetooth drivers for OS9 http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1300.0

USB1

USB2

AirPort Xtreme

microPMU

Modem Module

Audio Codec

Graphics Card (Yes, you can have a headless OS9 DAW thru Timbuktu/VNC)

I would try that.

iMic. Even with most of us been OS9 centric, We,  as part of the living PowerPC community have to give thanks to you also for the develop of Leopard Assist. You have broke barriers in both sides of the wall. You have made TigerOnly computers go Leo and OSXonly computers go back to OS9. THANKS for been a truly liberator.

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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #197 on: November 14, 2014, 05:39:34 PM »
@MacTron: Is the IC of PHY Ethernet the same than in a Sawtooth? It is not Gigabit Ethernet, but 10/100
Is the IC of PHY FW Agere or TI?
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supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #198 on: November 14, 2014, 06:45:03 PM »
protoolsle5guy;
what makes u think that the key to making anything work is to disable soemthing in openfirmware?
i saw u comment about this before, earlier, perhaps in this very thread, it was in reference to the firewire 800 ports...the presence of the firewire 800 ports is not what stops the mac os boot..

i havent seen many of us really discuss the particulars of what actually happens during a mac os 9 boot ..
a brief revisit to the basics: the mac os rom file effectively replaces the actual chip inside 'old world rom' macs
the mac os rom file itself is actually a CHRP script with another file embedded within itself.. according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_ROM

Quote
The Toolbox ROM was embedded inside a CHRP script in the System Folder called "Mac OS ROM", along with a short loader stub and a copy of the Happy Mac icon suitable for display from Open Firmware. Once the ROM was loaded from disk, the Mac boot sequence continued as usual. As before, Open Firmware could also run a binary boot loader, and version 3.0 added support for ELF objects as well as the XCOFF files versions 1.0.5 and 2.0 supported. Also, version 3.0 (as well as some of the last releases of version 2.x, starting with the PowerBook 3400) officially supported direct access to the Open Firmware command prompt from the console (by setting the auto-boot? variable to false from Mac OS, or by holding down Command-Option-O-F at boot).

One major difference between Old World ROM Macs and New World ROM Macs, at least in classic Mac OS, is that the Gestalt selector for the machine type is no longer usable; all New World ROM Macs use the same mach ID, 406 decimal, and the actual machine ID is encoded in the "model" and "compatible" properties of the root node of the Open Firmware device tree. The New World ROM also sets the "compatible" property of the root node to "MacRISC2" (machines that can boot classic Mac OS using "Mac OS ROM") or "MacRISC3" (machines that can only boot OS X or another Unix-like system).

reading the threads + posts here i feel that alot of u are out of synch with each other in terms of understanding + in depth knowledge + familiarity with the relevant specifics
perhaps it would be helpful to alll minds readin this thread to revisit in another thread the following:
a) the specifics of what actually happens .. chain of events. order of operations... during a mac os boot..
b) why the firmware rollback of the mdd fw800 to fw400 worked + what exactly it changed that enabled it to work
c) why the changes in the mac os rom edited by imic has enabled a boot WITHOUT a firmware downgrade

i think getting everyone on the same page in understanding these facts will provide groundwork for the next ssteps.
a) should be answerable in detail by examining closely the original "new world rom" documentation from apple

Quote
Boot Process Overview

The following list is a high level view of the execution path take when a NewWorld-based computer boots Mac OS:

    The POST code runs (preliminary diagnostics, boot beep, initialization, and setup). This is similar to code in a Mac OS ToolBox ROM, but it is different in that it does not contain OS-specific code.

    Open Firmware initializes and begins execution, including building the Device Tree.

    Open Firmware loads the "bootinfo" file, based on defaults and NVRAM settings.

    Open Firmware executes the "Forth" script in the "bootinfo" file, which contains information about the rest of the file and instructions to read both the Trampoline code and the ToolBox ROM Image and place them into a temporary place in memory.

    The "Forth" script transfers control to the Trampoline code, which functions as the transition between Open Firmware and the beginning of the Mac OS execution.

    The Trampoline code gathers information about the system from Open Firmware, creates data structures based on this information, terminates Open Firmware, and rearranges the contents of memory to an interim location in physical memory space.

    The Trampoline code transfers control to the ToolBox ROM Image initialization code.
Startup and the Startup Disk Control Panel

The boot sequence, up to loading and execution of the Mac OS ROM image, is controlled by Open Firmware. To provide a user experience like previous Macintoshes, Open Firmware now supports searching for possible boot devices and user overrides of boot devices using keyboard input such as Command-Shift-Option-Delete or "C" to force booting from a CD-ROM.

When the user selects a startup device in the Startup Disk control panel, Startup Disk no longer sets a value in Mac OS PRAM. Instead it generates an Open Firmware path to the device and saves that path in NVRAM as Open Firmware's "boot-device" configuration variable. Open Firmware tries the device specified by "boot-device" first. If this device is unavailable or the user has overridden this with keyboard input, Open Firmware scans other devices looking for bootable drives. Once Open Firmware selects a device, it sets the "bootpath" property in the "chosen" node to the path to that device. The "bootpath" property is what the Mac OS ROM subsequently uses to locate and load Mac OS from disk.

In order for a device to be bootable, Open Firmware needs methods for accessing the drive. For built-in devices, such as SCSI and ATA, these methods are supplied by Open Firmware. For plug-in cards, the PCI configuration ROM on each card must supply these methods for the card as specified in the PCI Open Firmware binding.
http://web.archive.org/web/20041011114718/http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/pdf/tn1167.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/20020305055031/http://www.netneurotic.de/mac/openfirmware.html
http://web.archive.org/web/19990420212629/http://www.openfirmware.org/1275/home.html

i also found this site: http://www.forth.com/
http://softlayer-dal.dl.sourceforge.net/project/thinking-forth/reprint/rel-1.0/thinking-forth-color.pdf
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 08:02:16 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #199 on: November 14, 2014, 07:03:39 PM »

Code: [Select]
, checksum error
Loading ELF

DO-QUIESCE finished


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiesce
apparently in programming terms, this means to temporarily pause to allow it to fully complete the previously queued commands.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #200 on: November 14, 2014, 07:10:04 PM »
protoolsle5guy;
what makes u think that the key to making anything work is to disable soemthing in openfirmware?
i saw u comment about this before, earlier, perhaps in this very thread, it was in reference to the firewire 800 ports...the presence of the firewire 800 ports is not what stops the mac os boot...

It has a lot of sense. In this way we can isolate and identify what it was causing the Mac Os 9 boot crash. Unless it was the CPU, the RAM or the intrepid IC. LOL


i havent seen many of us really discuss the particulars of what actually happens during a mac os 9 boot ..
...
perhaps it would be helpful to alll minds readin this thread to revisit in another thread the following:
a) the specifics of what actually happens .. chain of events. order of operations... during a mac os boot...

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1965.msg9990#msg9990

b) why the firmware rollback of the mdd fw800 to fw400 worked + what exactly it changed that enabled it to work

This was a dangerous and Brute Force method. Thank god it was successful, but it could render the machine unusable forever. And really it was only a question of Mac Os ROM and/or open firmware commands.

-No Fw800, No USB 2... but I had read long time ago that this is posible.

-Format an HD with Mac Os 9 drivers.
-Use a Mac Os ROM version 10.2
-Force the startup with this HD.
... I never tested this, but may help ...

Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #201 on: November 14, 2014, 07:22:32 PM »
> http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1965.msg9990#msg9990
thats strange i dont understand how i could have missed this post.. october 30th?? 2 weeks ago

dont misunderstand these questions as coming from myself... im simply stating that there is a good chance of there being benefit of this information being refreshed for *any reader* of this thread.. for the collective minds to be coming from a solid platform of understanding... rather then having people suggest that we turn things on/off in openfirmware hoping + praying for this to make a huge difference when it wont.. ;D
or hoping for new graphics drivers to be written.. dont hold your breath ;D lol i think theres a bettr chance of being hit by lightning and winning the lottery in the same day..

i dont agree with calling it a dangerous + brute force method at all. the machines are almost identical
it simply undid a change in the combination of machinefirmware / openfirmware settngs code that was placed there on purpose by apple to disable the mac os 9 bootability.
there is no technical reason blocking it from working.. it was deliberate + intentional to disable the os.
as intentional as it was to hold a public funeral.. it doesnt get more deliberate + intentional then that.

the execution of loading of the toolbox image/chrp script was disabled at the openfirmware level..
breaking the chain of events that would lead to a possible boot.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 07:36:59 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #202 on: November 14, 2014, 07:31:45 PM »
protoolsle5guy;
what makes u think that the key to making anything work is to disable soemthing in openfirmware?

reading the threads + posts here i feel that alot of u are out of synch with each other in terms of understanding + in depth knowledge + familiarity with the relevant specifics
perhaps it would be helpful to alll minds readin this thread to revisit in another thread the following:
a) the specifics of what actually happens .. chain of events. order of operations... during a mac os boot..
b) why the firmware rollback of the mdd fw800 to fw400 worked + what exactly it changed that enabled it to work
c) why the changes in the mac os rom edited by imic has enabled a boot WITHOUT a firmware downgrade

i think getting everyone on the same page in understanding these facts will provide groundwork for the next ssteps.

iMic has made rom edit+openfirmware to achieve last results.

I know there out is a guy that shutoffs the internal graphics of a beige G3 in openfirmware to get to Leopard (to use a 9200 PCI). Why not do the same to get a MacMini headless OS9 DAW? Yes, I know that the boot disk should be "baked" on a OS9 working machine before trying in the Mini(To install OS9 drivers and VNC).

Also, to shut-down the graphics is the last resource after all the remaining  devices been discarted as OS9'ability blockers. If this thing do not work, a full reset of the machine (PMU and PRAM) should be necesary to take back to life the mini.

I think you can not "make a brick" of a PowerMac with bad OpenFirmware commands, but it seems that the OpenFirmware level of iMic is way ahead ours... MacTron has said that was dangerous. I think that a good total reset (Days without the 3.6 battery +PRAM reset+PMU) can bring to live most fucked things. But better to be safe.

The wound that never heals is cured now.  ;D

We can boot OS9 with 2 differents methods on FW800 machines. Downgrade and Rom edition.

This last method seems to work for the iBook from iMic. But not on the MacMini. That lead DieHard that maybe the trouble was not having source of graphics drivers



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supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #203 on: November 14, 2014, 07:41:49 PM »
i understand your reasoning about the problem of the greyscreen being graphics drivers..
this makes sense to me much in the same way that my powermac g3 450mhz wont boot if i have the radeon 7000 card installed on a vanilla install of 8.6 or 9.0  but it works fine with 9.1 + 9.2 - i wrote recently saying i had to replace the ati rage 128 to be able to install... suggesting that anyone with a g3 absolutely must keep this rage 128 card for situations like this.. but hoping for someone to develop new graphics drivers is a huuuuuuge longshot ;D but its understandable given the history here this thread started frm a silly post like that about *impossible things* not so long ago right ;D lol lol ptleguy thinks hey.. fuck it . why not try to start a new miracle thread ;D hahahah

but: re graphics cards / drivers being the cause of non-boot
dont  forget that japamac claimed to hav booted mac os 9 on many unsupported video cards.. such as the radeon 9800 etc (albeit without 'accelleration')
looking back to the thread of filiphuezen or whatever did he get a grey screen on boot with his radeon 9200?
his card never worked untill he used the freshdraginstall with updated video drivers
which leads me to ask: which install was iMic using with the above test?
and which versions of the ati driver extensions

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #204 on: November 14, 2014, 07:55:06 PM »

which leads me to ask: which install was iMic using with the above test?
and which versions of the ati driver extensions

He said he is using DieHard Drag'n'drop with 10.x AppleRomRamWhatever is called.

Who is the one a little late on news now, Chris?  ;D ;D ;D ;D

That is why I told ten post before
 

I only know of Radeon 9200 PCI working on G3s B&W on OS9. Not sure what drivers you should use for AGP. Maybe 2003' ATI drivers update...


I have to remind you all that after installing the drivers/extensions to use a Radeon 9000 on a DA, after returning the card to owner, the system couldn't boot with only a RAGE 128Pro.
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #205 on: November 14, 2014, 09:36:13 PM »
i understand your reasoning about the problem of the greyscreen being graphics drivers..
Mine, iMic, MacTron or DieHard approach?    :P

this makes sense to me much in the same way that my powermac g3 450MHz wont boot if i have the radeon 7000 card installed on a vanilla install of 8.6 or 9.0  but it works fine with 9.1 + 9.2 - i wrote recently saying i had to replace the ati rage 128 to be able to install... suggesting that anyone with a g3 absolutely must keep this rage 128 card for situations like this..

Oranges and Apples?

but hoping for someone to develop new graphics drivers is a huuuuuuge longshot ;D but its understandable given the history here this thread started frm a silly post like that about *impossible things* not so long ago right ;D lol lol ptleguy thinks hey.. fuck it . why not try to start a new miracle thread ;D hahahah

>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I do not know how to politely answer you. But I will try. Even after you insulting the work of MacTron, Syntho, Jakl, DieHard, lokki, SnakeCoils, Blitter, blemk, iMic and even yours own efforts calling it a
Quote
a silly post like that about impossible things
.I honestly was just asking publicly to DieHard and diehard MacOS9 users if they were aware of HardWare/Software Mods to achieve that.

Most humans-catolics after seen a miracle became believers/develop faith.   :P   But you...  :(

We, now, having more than 700 members and growing, have the advantage of having many OldSkool users and artists, Internet Archive (WayBackMachine), actual cost of PowerMacs and a passion to use these machines to the limits (MacTron beyond them  ;D ). This thing is growing. We were/are in contact with Classic-HasClass (His blog is funny and formative) and soon more developers could join us, (hopefully some former Nvidia/ATI developer) maybe filling the gaps in documentation we have in graphic devices today.

Yeah, I know this is wishfull thinking, and you even laught about it,  but who knows? The partnership between MacOS9Lives! and ThinkClassic is giving unsuspected results. The more who join us, the easiest to know a guy who knows a guy that do @@@

Also Nostalgia of better times play on ouf favor...  ;D


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Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #206 on: November 14, 2014, 10:37:51 PM »
iMic,

You have already inspired many, where ever you go from here is gravy... thank you for all the hard work... it reminds me of the days we used to use Norton disk edit in MS DOS to Hex out License keys from DBase software Applications (same concept to keep the file the same number of Bytes)... excellent work :)

Admittedly most of it was trial and error over a span of several months, and thankfully most of the data that needed to be modified (such as the machine identifier list) was stored in plain text in the Resource Fork. Anything more involved than that and my knowledge hits its limitations. Like editing the bits of an old DOS application though, it's always a thrill when it all comes together and works at the end. :)


iMic. Even with most of us been OS9 centric, We,  as part of the living PowerPC community have to give thanks to you also for the develop of Leopard Assist. You have broke barriers in both sides of the wall. You have made TigerOnly computers go Leo and OSXonly computers go back to OS9. THANKS for been a truly liberator.

Thanks for the encouraging comments. :) Most of these tools, be it the OS 9 ROM or LeopardAssist, were usually developed because I had a need for them myself. With LeopardAssist, it was because my 733MHz QuickSilver G4 fell short of the 867MHz requirement. With this ROM project, it was because I wanted to see OS 9 boot on an iBook G4. It's always nice to share the finished product though so others can benefit from the work as well.

With LeopardAssist being updated to version 3 in January, the launch of ThinkClassic in May and now this new ROM release, it's certainly been a busy year here for older Mac related projects.


I think you can not "make a brick" of a PowerMac with bad OpenFirmware commands, but it seems that the OpenFirmware level of iMic is way ahead ours... MacTron has said that was dangerous.

This last method seems to work for the iBook from iMic. But not on the MacMini. That lead DieHard that maybe the trouble was not having source of graphics drivers

I wouldn't suggest my knowledge of Open Firmware is extensive... I think I've bashed around in Open Firmware more in the last three days or so than I have in my entire life combined prior to this experiment. I'm still finding out new things here and there as I go along.

Interestingly I have managed to brick one Logic Board with bad Open Firmware commands. My Sawtooth (AGP Graphics) Power Mac G4 failed after a botched write to the NVRAM with an early test version of LeopardAssist in 2008. I never did figure out entirely what caused the machine to react so badly to it.

For what it's worth, the iBook lacks graphics drivers as well. It's locked to Millions of Colours and 1024 x 768 as a result, and a patch is needed to disable the second display. It's rather frustrating as I had hoped to run SimCity 2000 on the iBook, but of course it needs to switch down to 256 colour mode to run, which this machine can't do.


i dont agree with calling it a dangerous + brute force method at all. the machines are almost identical
it simply undid a change in the combination of machinefirmware / openfirmware settngs code that was placed there on purpose by apple to disable the mac os 9 bootability.
there is no technical reason blocking it from working.. it was deliberate + intentional to disable the os.
as intentional as it was to hold a public funeral.. it doesnt get more deliberate + intentional then that.

the execution of loading of the toolbox image/chrp script was disabled at the openfirmware level..
breaking the chain of events that would lead to a possible boot.

I don't have a FW800 MDD myself otherwise I'd test this theory, but did Apple actually place a block in the firmware to prevent OS 9 from running? To me it seems that the likely change was the switch from MacRISC2 to MacRISC3 in the FW800's firmware, which prevented the Mac OS ROM from being classed as a valid boot file on the machine. Perhaps this altered ROM, with the added MacRISC3 compatible flag, would permit a successful boot into Mac OS 9 without having to flash an older firmware version on the machine?


i understand your reasoning about the problem of the greyscreen being graphics drivers..
this makes sense to me much in the same way that my powermac g3 450mhz wont boot if i have the radeon 7000 card installed on a vanilla install of 8.6 or 9.0  but it works fine with 9.1 + 9.2 - i wrote recently saying i had to replace the ati rage 128 to be able to install... suggesting that anyone with a g3 absolutely must keep this rage 128 card for situations like this.. but hoping for someone to develop new graphics drivers is a huuuuuuge longshot ;D but its understandable given the history here this thread started frm a silly post like that about *impossible things* not so long ago right ;D lol lol ptleguy thinks hey.. fuck it . why not try to start a new miracle thread ;D hahahah

but: re graphics cards / drivers being the cause of non-boot
dont  forget that japamac claimed to hav booted mac os 9 on many unsupported video cards.. such as the radeon 9800 etc (albeit without 'accelleration')
looking back to the thread of filiphuezen or whatever did he get a grey screen on boot with his radeon 9200?
his card never worked untill he used the freshdraginstall with updated video drivers

I'm curious to see how much a contributing factor the graphics chip plays in holding up the Mac OS 9 boot process. As I mentioned above, the onboard GPU isn't detected correctly by OS 9 in this iBook either, however that doesn't stop it from booting.

As it stands the boot attempt on the Mac Mini is being halted before the Happy Mac even appears, suggesting that it isn't even reaching the point where extensions or graphics drivers would come into play. Of course, I could be mistaken.


which leads me to ask: which install was iMic using with the above test?
and which versions of the ati driver extensions

As was mentioned above by Protools5LEGuy, I'm using the 922 Drag Install with Mac OS ROM 10.2.1. I've also tested the machine with the ATI Radeon 9200 Mac Edition drivers and the ATI 2005 Driver Update, however neither of these have had any effect on any of these machines whatsoever.


Yeah, I know this is wishfull thinking, and you even laught about it,  but who knows? The partnership between MacOS9Lives! and ThinkClassic is giving unsuspected results. The more who join us, the easiest to know a guy who knows a guy that do @@@

It's fairly impressive what can be achieved when our communities work together, isn't it? Personally I think it's been fantastic collaborating with Mac OS 9 Lives on this project. Some of the information here has been extremely valuable, especially the documentation and threads on Open Firmware.

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #207 on: November 14, 2014, 10:55:30 PM »
changing one 2 to a 3... ?
1 digit? could it be actually 1 digit that prevents the os9 boot?
my understanding already was that it was something preventing some part of the loading mechanism from recognizing the toolbox image as valid....
now that i consider the impact of this (macrisc2 vs macrisc3) it is logical that this could indeed be the reason

but!! does this logic also fit with the truths that were held previously:

-placing a fw800 cpu into a fw400 logic board resulted in a mac os 9 bootable system,
-replacing a fw400 cpu into a fw800 logicboard resulted in a nonbooting system

is it the cpu or the motherboard that determines if it is 'macrisc2' or 'macrisc3'
this seems to be stored in the firmware.. so.. if it is in the firmware... this is the only
explanation as to why replacing the old fw400 mobo with a new cpu still works.. and the opposite
(fw400 cpu in a fw800 mobo) does not..

so yea what u have done is to hack the rom to allow booting from the native cpu type..
effectively changing the equality of a programmatic check to ring true rather then false
allowing the boot to proceed.. genius..
i personally thought there was more to it then 1 digit...
involving all areas
ie: machine firmware, openfirmware, the chrp portion of the mac os rom, and the tbxi image contained within the mac os rom
so really you have just edited the chrp/elf portion of the mac os rom

so to think logically... the 10.2.1 rom file was created for the mdd's as far as we have established
keepin in mind that the single rom file is , in fact an actual script /w an embedded toolbox image..
theres 2 variables there.. thetoolbox image has to match the hardware.... and the script, as u have established, has to also support the hardware/processor type.

i wonder if u could somehow save this 'macrisc3' property into nv-ram in openfirmware with the right parameter name and make this a lot easier.. in that u could quickly test it on many machines without even copying a file, just doing a quick OFW boot..


as it says on wiki:
Quote
One major difference between Old World ROM Macs and New World ROM Macs, at least in classic Mac OS, is that the Gestalt selector for the machine type is no longer usable; all New World ROM Macs use the same mach ID, 406 decimal, and the actual machine ID is encoded in the "model" and "compatible" properties of the root node of the Open Firmware device tree. The New World ROM also sets the "compatible" property of the root node to "MacRISC2" (machines that can boot classic Mac OS using "Mac OS ROM") or "MacRISC3" (machines that can only boot OS X or another Unix-like system).

if it is indeed the "macrisc3" string that enables/disables boot.. this info is contained in *the root node of the open firmware device tree* with property name "compatible"
can't we just overwrite this parameter in openfirmware nv-ram?? rather then having to change the 'mac os rom' ??....


but i have also seen this comptatible node in CHRP script so does this property exist in both the mac os rom as well as the openfirmware device tree.. and the chrp script is comparing the values??
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 07:05:25 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #208 on: November 14, 2014, 11:11:22 PM »


Yeah, I know this is wishfull thinking, and you even laught about it,  but who knows? The partnership between MacOS9Lives! and ThinkClassic is giving unsuspected results. The more who join us, the easiest to know a guy who knows a guy that do @@@

It's fairly impressive what can be achieved when our communities work together, isn't it? Personally I think it's been fantastic collaborating with Mac OS 9 Lives on this project. Some of the information here has been extremely valuable, especially the documentation and threads on Open Firmware.

You and MacTron have folks everywhere...  ;D Maybe we could join some friends from 68kla, and MacRumors too. DieHard said :

Quote
The Mac OS 9 Lives Forum will now be dedicated to...
1) Installing, Maintaining, and Extending the functionality of Mac OS 9
2) Installing Digital Audio Software & Music/MIDI Hardware interfaces
3) General questions for Mac OS 9 enthusiasts.


And the point 1 and 3 are really close to ThinkClassic. Also that spirit is present on some 68kla users and in a small degree in MacRumors PowerPC forums, been those last more centric on OSX. We all use the same machines. Tower of Babylon thing, because everyone have a point in their opinions. Most Graphic designer were happy going to OSX...http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1721626&highlight=os9
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #209 on: November 14, 2014, 11:24:15 PM »
i think ptleguy is drunk

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #210 on: November 14, 2014, 11:33:00 PM »
i think ptleguy is drunk
Drunk people always say the truth.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Cheers!
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #211 on: November 15, 2014, 01:02:33 AM »
if it is indeed the "macrisc3" string that enables/disables boot.. this info is contained in *the root node of the open firmware device tree* with property name "compatible"
can't we just overwrite this parameter in openfirmware nv-ram?? rather then having to change the 'mac os rom' ??....


The Mac OS ROM checks for MacRISC or MacRISC2 when determining whether the computer can start booting into Mac OS 9. Adding MacRISC or MacRISC2 to the compatible property will allow this check to pass without using a modified ROM.

In the second stage of the boot, the ROM checks to see whether the model identifier (so PowerBook4,3 for example) is listed as compatible in the ROM.

You can fix both of these issues in NVRAM without a modified ROM, like so:

Code: [Select]
dev /
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " model" property
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRiSC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property

To make it apply automatically with each boot:

Quote
nvedit

dev /
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " model" property
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRiSC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property

(Press Ctrl + C)

nvstore

setenv use-nvramrc? true

reset-all

Replace PowerBook4,3 with the model identifier of a Mac OS 9 compatible Mac. Take my iBook G4 for example. It's a PowerBook6,3, but because Mac OS 9 doesn't recognise that model, it crashes with an Error Type 102 on startup. If I tell the NVRAM that the computer is a PowerBook4,3 though (iBook G3), Mac OS 9 will start to boot successfully.

The reason I patched the Mac OS ROM is because if the NVRAM ever clears, the machine will be rendered unbootable until you re-enter these commands into the NVRAM.

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #212 on: November 15, 2014, 02:39:31 AM »

so to think logically... the 10.2.1 rom file was created for the mdd's as far as we have established
Not in the sense you'll think. IMHO
Quote
keepin in mind that the single rom file is , in fact an actual script /w an embedded toolbox image..

... and a real extension and upgrade of the System file... and may be, few things more.

It's fairly impressive what can be achieved when our communities work together, isn't it? Personally I think it's been fantastic collaborating with Mac OS 9 Lives on this project.

Absolutely agree.  :)

Quote
Some of the information here has been extremely valuable, especially the documentation and threads on Open Firmware.

Those post was placed by myself (including some from Think Classic) due to a similar project with a xServe, and to avoid some dangerous reflashing fever around here. But seems that few or nobody have read them... LOL

This xServe projet is in standby mode by now, in waiting for the hardware to arrive...
A lot of thing are more clear now... but even if the xServe Mac Os 9 boot process, stops like the Mini, we'll try to learn something new.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #213 on: November 15, 2014, 07:03:06 AM »

Those post was placed by myself (including some from Think Classic) due to a similar project with a xServe, and to avoid some dangerous reflashing fever around here. But seems that few or nobody have read them... LOL


Reading and Fully Understanding are two different things.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #214 on: November 15, 2014, 07:07:16 AM »
Code: [Select]
dev /
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " model" property
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRiSC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property

To make it apply automatically with each boot:

Quote
nvedit

dev /
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " model" property
" PowerBook4,3" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRiSC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property

(Press Ctrl + C)

nvstore

setenv use-nvramrc? true

reset-all
excellent post ;0 thank you!

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #215 on: November 18, 2014, 06:27:43 PM »
Wow.. Barely got to touch my two MDDs (400/800) in the last few weeks yet.... come back to this thread after joining and mentioning the threads from both forums and man you guys moved fast when combining information.   Looks like FW800 should be a breeze with modified Mac OS ROM (or without) with a few Open Firmware commands. Just starting to escape work, but once I do I will give it a go on FW800 MDD..  So exciting  :D

Offline blemk

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #216 on: November 18, 2014, 06:50:56 PM »
Hmm. Finished reading through 3 threads (2 here, one ThinkClassic where iMic's thread is)..

Modified Mac OS ROM with generic MacRISCX entries takes care of Mac OS ROM..  Next thing that comes to mind to kill off another need for the simple open firmware identity spoofing, would be patched last version of DiskUtility that is likely doing it's own check when deciding to display the "Mac OS 9 Driver" option. Other thoughts that come to mind, what if we DD read a raw device (disk that has Mac OS 9 driver) and a very small partition on it (blank even) and DD write it back to a disk you want to use for Mac OS 9?  Would result in the required driver and partition structure being present (although potentially a very small and useless partition size). But partition size could simply be resized to a bigger size after the dd write put down the required driver/partition as DiskUtility will not longer be needed to create the driver.

From there, iMic already noted it, if we build a new bootable OS 9 CD that has the generic modified rom, we can restore Mac OS and do blessing from Mac OS 9 CD..

Given all of the above (actually being possible), would go down as:

Needed:   1 Modified Mac OS 9 bootable CD image with modified Mac OS ROM, 1 DD created image of small Mac OS 9 driver partitioned disk.

Process:

1. DD write image to new disk for use as OS 9.
2. Resize partition to take space desired on disk for OS 9 partition
3. Boot modified Mac OS 9 boot cd with generic ROM.
4. Restore OS 9, copy modified rom if not in image/system-folder, and bless from within OS booting from CD rom.

Some of above would be even easier for those not familiar with raw disk images from DD and similar if a modified DiskUtility from OS X could be made, but I could see dropping a raw disk image from Linux or windows (on a non- Apple OS) easily enough.

Thoughts? Ramblings of a mad man that bare has one of these pre-OS X macs up in running in his living room?  :o

Offline iMic

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #217 on: November 18, 2014, 11:32:01 PM »
Modified Mac OS ROM with generic MacRISCX entries takes care of Mac OS ROM..  Next thing that comes to mind to kill off another need for the simple open firmware identity spoofing, would be patched last version of DiskUtility that is likely doing it's own check when deciding to display the "Mac OS 9 Driver" option.


It looks like the series check is being performed in Disk Utility.app > Contents > MacOS > Disk Utility. I've opened the Panther version (10.3.5, Disk Utility v10.4.3) with a hex editor and sure enough it contains the following line:

Code: [Select]
/compatibleIOService:/MacRISCMacRISC2
I've altered this to also include MacRISC3 and MacRISC4. I've also trimmed some of the blank space so the file retains the same byte count (0x4C6BC). I'll attempt to start up from the Panther CD and launch the patched version later to see if it works.

I'd imagine that older and newer releases of Disk Utility are the same or very similar.

Offline blemk

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #218 on: November 28, 2014, 01:55:00 PM »
So.. Holiday over and a day of vacation.. ..   The real FW400 machine is almost completely ready (short of some more software installs), but used it for some testing with the FW800.

Interesting note, MacRISC2 is present on the FW400 but MacRISC (no number revision) is not. Buy I have had to add MacRISC to the FW800 to get it to boot OS 9 with a 9.6.x (forgot what version) Mac OS ROM file. Haven't tested with 10.2.x Mac OS ROM (modified by imic or unmodified yet).

Anyway, ran into an interesting read about an open firmware hack/mod for enable hibernate like functionality on older G4 hardware in Mac OS 10.4.x. I mention it, because it made me think of Mac OS X "nvram" command/app.  https://matt.ucc.asn.au/apple/machibernate.html

Haven't tested this (will later today), but modified a script posted on the above site (very simple script, and very slight change) to allow you to make the needed changes to nvramrc (so the open firmware changes are done on each boot like imic noted).. But likely easier for someone not comfortable with open firmware. This should run from a OS X setup disk so you can boot the OS X disk, run the script, reboot again to OS X setup disk or OS X install if you prefer, and then be able to run Disk Utility and be presented with the "OS 9 Drivers" option when partitioning/formatting a drive for OS 9. Otherwise, it is a nice way to restore the nvramrc script if you ever clear your nvram (intentionally or otherwise) and eliminates the need for the modded Mac OS ROM if you have nay reason to not use it.

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/sh
echo Enabling OS 9 booting...
echo "You may have to enter your password"
# Use nvram command to setup nvramrc with script to make open firmware changes
sudo nvram nvramrc='" /" select-dev
" PowerMac3,6" encode-string " model" property
" PowerMac3,6" encode-string " MacRISC" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+ " MacRISC3" encode-string encode+ " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+ " compatible" property
unselect
'
# Enable use of nvramrc on boot. Change to "false" if you want to disable again. Or just clear/reset nvram.
sudo nvram "use-nvramrc?"=true
echo done.

Save to a .sh file (name of your choice really) and you are good to go.

Again, haven't tested yet.. But see no reason it should not set the nvramrc up as needed. Nice thing, you can use the script as a stating point to get OS 9 going even if you do not have another machine handy for the initial OS 9 drive creation. I also still like the idea of this nvram change more then just a modded OS 9 Mac OS ROM as it allows OS X Disk Utility and Startup preferences panel to see and select/set OS 9 boot correctly. Would do both (nvramrc/openfirwmare change and modded Mac OS ROM file).

Now, quick confirmation of a few things for anyone wanting to know:

Bluetooth and wifi, OS X with open firmware changes sees both and they work fine (as expected.
OS 9 can see the Bluetooth device. Haven't tried the open source drivers out there to see if it work. Given the FW800 bluetooh module appears to be a another simple USB connected device (like modem) and uses the same hardware as some supported USB dongles I can't see why it wouldn't work.
OS 9 AirPort drivers (not even latest versions I have seen) work for a FW800 AirPort Extreme Card. :( So be prepared to not count on 802.11g AirPort card (at 802.11g or 802.11b).
Onboard Firewire ports on the FW800 behave fine (all at 400, limited, speed though).

Otherwise, everything behaves great so far. This remind me of XPostFacto.... Anyone want to make a 9PostFacto?   :D

Thank you all again for chatting and bringing info together to make this happen. Now I have the hard choice of deciding if I should build up both the machines for OS 9 or get rid of 1 (only intended to have 1 working machine out of the parts I obtained).

Still going to see if I can dd or otherwise raw capture a blank OS 9 driver partitioned/formatted drive to see if this can all be done without touching open firmware at all to be able to get an OS 9 install down on a drive without any existing OS 9 capable machine handy.

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #219 on: November 28, 2014, 09:05:58 PM »
Script I posted earlier/above works great (I loose the script in nvram every so often as I have a dying battery in my FW800 as I used the one good battery in the FW400 machine).. But it works, and easy to recover (I just boot into X of some sort and run the script and reboot). A bit safer than typing in open firmware the long commands and certainly quicker.

Change the "PowerMac3,6" to something else for experimenting with other devices you might be trying to get OS 9 booting on..

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #220 on: November 28, 2014, 10:57:03 PM »
if you wrote this script blemk then cheers, i salute you 8) i had a feeling something like that was possible! :)

Offline DieHard

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #221 on: November 29, 2014, 12:52:18 AM »
Wow... This is awesome, to summarize we are left with 3 methods to achieve Mac OS 9 booting on unsupported hardware...

Our first method, the force burning of "cross species G4 firmware updates" should obviously be avoided since it gives Mactron high blood pressure and since the outcome may result in some really FUBARed G4s that end up as eWaste... so I am asking the troops to incorporate the remaining 2 methods (modified ROM OR NVRAM Variable substitution) into easy newbie-style toast images or DMG files that we can post for the masses; this will yield the information needed to create a new thread that will detail user accounts of different unsupported G4 Model booting and results.

So, to Blemk (or anyone else with the energy), I ask, for us to streamline the process by creating...

1) A Bootable Mac OS 9.2.2 CD Image (with Modified iMic 10.2.1 ROM in system folder) that also contains modified Disk Utility (if needed) and an ASR Image that will restore to a fresh volume that also contains Modified iMic 10.2.1 ROM; in other words a New 2015 Mac OS 9.2.2 bootable install CD that we can immediately distribute to get some real world testing going...

AND/OR

2) A Bootable OS X (10.x) CD that contains 2 scripts (or 1 with choices) that...

A) Sets NVRAM for OS 9 Boot so that a normal Mac OS 9 install can be tested AND B) Resets NVRAM back to factory when testing is done

I know this is a lot to ask, but it would expedite the process of testing different machines for OS9 functionality.

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #222 on: November 29, 2014, 12:15:43 PM »

So, to Blemk (or anyone else with the energy), I ask, for us to streamline the process by creating...

1) A Bootable Mac OS 9.2.2 CD Image (with Modified iMic 10.2.1 ROM in system folder) that also contains modified Disk Utility (if needed) and an ASR Image that will restore to a fresh volume that also contains Modified iMic 10.2.1 ROM; in other words a New 2015 Mac OS 9.2.2 bootable install CD that we can immediately distribute to get some real world testing going...

AND/OR

2) A Bootable OS X (10.x) CD that contains 2 scripts (or 1 with choices) that...

A) Sets NVRAM for OS 9 Boot so that a normal Mac OS 9 install can be tested AND B) Resets NVRAM back to factory when testing is done

I know this is a lot to ask, but it would expedite the process of testing different machines for OS9 functionality.

Use of nvram command in os x was just idea I picked up from a similar open firmware hack/tweak. Not a very complicated script in the first place but put to good use. I just modified what the script is injecting into open firmware.

Time permitting on the rest of my long weekend.. I had plans for OS bootable disk with updated/modified rom..      OS X disk.. Could build it with the script but not sure it is worth it as the script can reside on a USB pen drive easy enough (boot CD/DVD, access script on usb pen drive).

Going to see if I can build the OS disk and put the apparently rare OS 9 ASR tool on it and use it to restore OS 9 image from OS 9 CD image with the modified rom. Would love to find a tool like "nvram" command in OS X that could run from OS 9 so I didn't even have to touch OS X to do this.

In either case, need to get tools to rebuild a OS 9 (or earlier) bootable CD image going. Been ages since I have done so. Wasn't hard with right software tools handy.

BTW, modded Disk Utility is not needed after open firmware changes. As imic noted, it appears to be checking for MacRISC/MacRISC2 as well when deciding to show "OS 9 Driver" option or not. So, only way you would need it (like modified Mac OS ROM) is if you don't do the open firmware change or the change is reset by clearing nvram.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #223 on: November 29, 2014, 01:02:51 PM »
AND[/i] B) Resets NVRAM back to factory when testing is done

Press and hold the Option-Command-P-R keys at system boot. LOL
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #224 on: November 29, 2014, 01:06:43 PM »
Use of nvram command in os x was just idea I picked up from a similar open firmware hack/tweak. Not a very complicated script in the first place but put to good use. I just modified what the script is injecting into open firmware.

Time permitting on the rest of my long weekend.. I had plans for OS bootable disk with updated/modified rom..      OS X disk.. Could build it with the script but not sure it is worth it as the script can reside on a USB pen drive easy enough (boot CD/DVD, access script on usb pen drive).

Going to see if I can build the OS disk and put the apparently rare OS 9 ASR tool on it and use it to restore OS 9 image from OS 9 CD image with the modified rom. Would love to find a tool like "nvram" command in OS X that could run from OS 9 so I didn't even have to touch OS X to do this.

In either case, need to get tools to rebuild a OS 9 (or earlier) bootable CD image going. Been ages since I have done so. Wasn't hard with right software tools handy.

BTW, modded Disk Utility is not needed after open firmware changes. As imic noted, it appears to be checking for MacRISC/MacRISC2 as well when deciding to show "OS 9 Driver" option or not. So, only way you would need it (like modified Mac OS ROM) is if you don't do the open firmware change or the change is reset by clearing nvram.

You don't need a Mac Os 9 or X boot disk to apply a Open Firmware script. There is a special and very small boot image from NewerTech, that can do this ...
I can provide it, if it is needed.
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