Author Topic: Mac Os 9 booting on: G4 Tower MDD FW800 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 108739 times)

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Mac Os 9 booting on: G4 Tower MDD FW800 (Detailed Posts)
« on: March 13, 2014, 03:56:02 PM »
Is there out a method to "change" the "firmware" of a MDD FW800 to a OS9 bootable (First MDD) "bios"?
I did not find anyone that had made, but maybe one user has the 2 models and can say us: "the fw800 has a XXX chip for the bios and the Fw400 has YYY chip"  Maybe noone was brave enought to "desolder" the "OSX" controller and put a "OS9" compatible one.
There "should" be a method to "force flash" the bios  from the FW800 models to OS9, but in 6-7 years of research I did not find anything nor anyone.

But I just learned in the good way that this machines can still surprise us.

I readed somewhere that Lacie FW800 add-on cards work on OS9 as FW400.

Maybe the FW800 FW chipset is the only difference?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 10:07:54 AM by DieHard »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2014, 04:14:32 PM »
In theory from open-firmware the user can say "dont use that resource".
This is the way for "unplug" onboard graphics cards on beige G3s for using pci ones.

There are too many FW800 machines out there and we want boot OS9 with them!
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2014, 04:42:32 PM »
-No Fw800, No USB 2... but I had read long time ago that this is posible.

-Format an HD with Mac Os 9 drivers.
-Use a Mac Os ROM version 10.2
-Force the startup with this HD.
... I never tested this, but may help ...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2014, 04:49:33 PM »
-No Fw800, No USB 2... but I had read long time ago that this is posible.

-Format an HD with Mac Os 9 drivers.
-Use a Mac Os ROM version 10.2
-Force the startup with this HD.
... I never tested this, but may help ...
I had never read that. If it is true, it should not matter what model of MDD to buy for OS9.
Pci usb2 cards work in OS9 as usb1
Pci Fw800 cards work in Os9 as fw400
I asume you mean you cant use onboard usb2.0 ports and fw800.
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Offline Syntho

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 08:10:54 PM »
Let's wait until DieHard chimes in. I think he's an expert when it comes to this  -afro-

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2014, 09:12:37 PM »
I had never read that. If it is true, it should not matter what model of MDD to buy for OS9.
Pci usb2 cards work in OS9 as usb1
Pci Fw800 cards work in Os9 as fw400
I asume you mean you cant use onboard usb2.0 ports and fw800.

which g4 has usb 2.0  :o
u can have usb 2.0 in win98se ;)

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2014, 11:06:56 PM »
I have used the fw800 cpu (dual 1.42ghz) chips in the fw400
and it works alright - very quick for macos9 - only that it does run hotter
and the os9 doesn't have good manual software fan controllers -
the rate of the fans seem to be higher and noisier in os9 than in osx.
This is probably why the mdd 1.42ghz processors were on a model
that were macosx only the fan controllers were able to be controlled
better within the system - I don't know the reason.

So if I can use the cpu for fw800 on a motherboard for a fw400 mdd and macos9
works then the ROM for os9 must be on the fw400 motherboard and
not on the motherboard for the mdd fw800 g4's - my guess.

So the only downgrade would be a motherboard of the fw400 version
where the macos9 ROM chip resides. Must not be on the Fw800 model
motherboards.


Offline DieHard

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MDD FW800 Boot to OS 9
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2014, 08:58:38 AM »
This is like an old wound that never heals...

The reason so many of us got excited back in 2004 was that someone realized there was a special version on the Mac OS ROM File that resided on the Mac diagnostic CD that did in fact allow the G4 MDD FW800 units to boot to (what appeared to be) Mac OS 9.2.2.

Unfortunately, the excitement turn into frustration, since nobody was able to make a working copy that ran even a minimal set of extensions... the Apple diagnostic package with the modified MAC OS ROM file seemed to be a bare minimum alternative that booted to something that had an OS 9 facelift, but did not posses the full OS 9 Mojo... in other words, to my knowledge nobody ever made a full working copy of bootable Mac OS 9.2.2 that  worked on the FW800.... Many rumors have been around for a long time that this modified version of the ROM file (that was never released to the public) had a version that was fully operational under 9.2.2....

it was also rumored that there was a another ROM file version file that even allowed the first G5s to work under Mac OS 9 (although with such radially different hardware, I personally thought of this rumor as an urban legend).

So... in conclusion... any Mac gurus that have a MDD FW800 diagnostic CD, please extract everything needed and create a Bootable complete version of OS 9 for us... we look forward to posting a working copy by the end of the week... or month... or year :)

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2014, 11:15:07 AM »
There is "another" ROM that allow the "Spring 2003" iMac G4/800 "Flat Panel" X Only, to boot into Mac Os 9.
 I've taken a little time comparing that special ROM (convenient called "Custer") and Mac Os ROM 10.2.1 and I always thought that are almost the same thing. My therory is that the Custer ROM upgrades Mac Os ROM 9.8.1 to 10.2.1, but I may be wrong.
As I haven't any FW800 to test it.  I can share This ROM to any one that want to experiment. ...and who knows...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: MDD FW800 Boot to OS 9
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2014, 12:47:29 PM »
This is like an old wound that never heals...

For a OS9 lover that had bought the wrong MDD, sure it never heals...  ;)
My MDD is an 867 dual FW400. I would not buy an MDD FW800, but just because I love OS9 and don't care about OSX only machines and I study my purchases before I do (make the homework).

I hope we can find a solution soon for all those who bought an FW800 and look OS9 saying "I can't".

So... in conclusion... any Mac gurus that have a MDD FW800 diagnostic CD, please extract everything needed and create a Bootable complete version of OS 9 for us... we look forward to posting a working copy by the end of the week... or month... or year :)
We are searching for it  :)
There is "another" ROM that allow the "Spring 2003" iMac G4/800 "Flat Panel" X Only, to boot into Mac Os 9.
 I've taken a little time comparing that special ROM (convenient called "Custer") and Mac Os ROM 10.2.1 and I always thought that are almost the same thing. My therory is that the Custer ROM upgrades Mac Os ROM 9.8.1 to 10.2.1, but I may be wrong.
As I haven't any FW800 to test it.  I can share This ROM to any one that want to experiment. ...and who knows...

That's great! An OSX only machine that can go OS9!
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: MDD FW800 Boot to OS 9
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2014, 12:55:56 PM »

So... in conclusion... any Mac gurus that have a MDD FW800 diagnostic CD, please extract everything needed and create a Bootable complete version of OS 9 for us... we look forward to posting a working copy by the end of the week... or month... or year :)
https://discussions.apple.com/message/13022080#13022080
Says that AHT 2.0.1 (FW800) is here http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Hardware_Test/693-4817-A.dmg
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2014, 01:01:39 PM »
 Grant Bennet-Alder in response to John Rock.
"When Apple declared the end of OS 9 bootablity, schools all over the country demanded extra time to finish their conversion to Mac OS X, especially the Server infrastructure. They needed new Macs, but could not yet support them on their older Servers, and could not convert to newer Servers without more time. There was ONE model issued later, only for the Education market, with a single 1.0GHz processor AND a FW800 port that could still boot OS 9.

There is thought to be a special version of the Mac OS ROM file (developed for that Mac) and few more additions that may be able to be coaxed to boot OS 9 directly on a FW800 G4. That Mac OS ROM file was also said to be found in an Apple-only diagnostic package that was never released to the outside world.

That is all the info I have. I have never tried to track down the files or verified their existence."
which g4 has usb 2.0  :o
u can have usb 2.0 in win98se ;)


Chris, finally the FW800 you saw could be the gate to MDD FW800 to boot OS9. If it is in your interest have spares...
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2014, 01:05:58 PM »
Booting OS9 on newer (unsupported) macs Part II
from 68k liberation
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=18994
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supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2014, 03:43:42 PM »
guaranteed its possible.
theres a guy out there somewhere who wrote this open firmware shit and he knows its possible too.

WHERE ARE U OPEN FIRMWARE GUY

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2014, 04:42:20 PM »
I have uploaded the OS9General FW800 file to the file section but heres the differences between
the system files in the system folder for the OS9General Image for the FW400 computers
and the FW800 computers;

In the System Folder of the MDD FW800 Model here are the files.

Classic           v9.1.6 Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.4         (Created 21/03/03 - Size 3.2mb)
Classic Support            v2.1.1 Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.4         (Created 22/11/02 - Size 213KB)
Classic Support UI    v2.1.1 Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.4         (Created 22/11/02 - Size 279KB)

Finder           vZ1-9.2 Mac OS Z-9.2.2            (Created 30/05/01 - Modified 15/06/01 - Size 2.4mb)

Login                 v1.4.1 Mac OS Z-9.2.2            (Created 04/04/01 - Size 700KB)

Mac OS ROM       v9.7.1 Mac OS CPU Software Z-5.6      (Created 12/10/02 - Size 3.4mb)

Panels           v1.4.1 Mac OS Z-9.2.2            (Created 04/04/01 - Size 1.3mb)

System         (18.4mb file) Date Created: 02/08/98      (Date Created 02/08/98 5:00am - Size 18.5mb)
System Resources   vZ1-9.2.2 Mac OS Z-9.2.2 (1mb file)      (Date Created 16/11/01 - Modified 22/11/01 7:00am - Size 1mb)


In the System Folder of the MDD FW400 Model here are the files.

Classic          v9.1.7    Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.5       (Created 21/03/03 - Size 3.2mb)
Classic Support            v2.1.1    Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.5       (Created 22/11/02 - Size 213KB)
Classic Support UI   v2.1.1    Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.5       (Created 22/11/02 - Size 279KB)

Finder          vZ1-9.2    Mac OS Z-9.2.2                 (Created 30/05/01 - Modified 15/06/01 5:00am - Size 2.4mb)

Login                 v1.4.1    Mac OS Z-9.2.2                  (Created 04/04/01 - Size 700KB)

Mac OS ROM      v10.2.1    Mac OS CPU Software Z-5.8    (Created 04/04/03 - Size 3.4mb)
      
Panels         v1.4.1    Mac OS Z-9.2.2            (Created 04/04/01 - Size 1.3mb)

System                                 (Date Created 02/08/98 - Size 18.5mb)
System Resources   vZ1-9.2.2 Mac OS Z-9.2.2 (1mb file)      (Date Created 16/11/01 - Modified 22/11/01 - Size 1mb)

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 04:53:34 PM »
from the previous post - so the MDD FW800 operates as classic only and MDD FW400 system is bootable.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 05:07:06 PM »
I have uploaded the OS9General FW800 file to the file section but heres the differences between
the system files in the system folder for the OS9General Image for the FW400 computers
and the FW800 computers;
Is that "OS9General FW800" the AHT 2.0.1 ? Is the MacOS9 for MDD'03 EDU?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 05:14:13 PM by Protools5LEGuy »
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Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 05:31:19 PM »
This is from the Install DVD for the powermac MDD G4 FW800. I just showed up the invisible files
and extracted the OS9General.dmg

Although I also have the install DVD for the PMG4 FW400 that has AHT2.0.2 for those introduced in
2003.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 06:06:02 PM »
Although I also have the install DVD for the PMG4 FW400 that has AHT2.0.2 for those introduced in
2003.
Can you show us these
2003 models EDU MacOS9
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Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2014, 06:18:06 PM »
Do you mean upload?

My uploads on the site are very slow. I have been trying to
put a few 6-700 mb cd images up and still haven't been
successful. So a DVD image would not work.

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2014, 06:25:14 PM »
Or would you like a photo of the DVD?

here:

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2014, 06:28:04 PM »
Not sure about EDU.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2014, 07:05:16 PM »
https://discussions.apple.com/message/15094917#15094917
Says there is a MDD for education with FW800 that boots OS9
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Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2014, 12:15:53 AM »
Anyway I have used the file that I uploaded (OS9Generalfw800.dmg) as a classic environment from within macosx 10.4 and I know it works very well. However I have never tried it to boot up any mac as yet.

So today I gave it a go on a fw400 mdd and it worked very well.
There were a number of issues that I found during the installation of it.
I used macosx 10.4.11 to do the install on another HD in my fw400.
I copied the image to another hard drive then I clicked on the image twice to open it.
The image did not open normally - it did not appear on my desktop. I tried 3 times and still no image on the desktop. So I then opened the Terminal app in Tiger and typed;

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles 1; killall Finder

to show all invisible files - and sure enough the images were there on my desktop all 3 open. I chucked them all out - then I put the Powermac G4 DVD back in and extracted the image again (OS9General.dmg the fw800) onto the hard drive again then used disk utility to restore the hard drive I wanted macos9 on. Booted from the newly installed disk and it worked well.

I then opened the OS9General.dmg(fw400 one) and took out extensions - I also looked into system folders of other HD's for other drivers. It is a great working system.

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2014, 12:30:18 AM »

Can you show us these
2003 models EDU MacOS9


Is that "OS9General FW800" the AHT 2.0.1 ? Is the MacOS9 for MDD'03 EDU?


Protools5LEGuy I just found this disk in a pile the AHT 2.0.1 but it's only like 30mb in total for the whole disk, it came with the Powermac G4 Software Install and Restore disk for the Powermac G4 fw800 I had ages ago. They are both dated 2003. The Install Disk is what the OS9Generalfw800 image is taken from. Here's the photos.


Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2014, 05:44:16 AM »
Has anyone got a fw800 mac and want to try the OS9Generalfw800.dmg file to see if they can boot into macos9?

Thanks in advance


Offline lokki

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2014, 07:08:18 AM »
according to this post in a google group it should be easy:

Quote
A friend of mine has OS9 running native on his G4 FW800, even though, officially, this is not possible.
To run 9.2.2 on MDD and FW800, you need Mac OS ROM version 9.6.1 and Quicktime 5.02. They are in a file called OS9General.dmg, which decompresses to the last release of the System Folder for OS9. You can get it here:

http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macintosh-system-922-1021-power-macintosh-g4-mirrored-drive-doors-mdd

That page gives these links:

Mac OS ROM 9.6.1: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MT4DOQKV
Mac OS 9 MDD DMG: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XIZRTZXW

I sent my friend a CD containing OS9General.dmg. He loaded it into his FW800 and installed OS9 onto his hard drive. Here's the trick: that hard drive already contained an OS9 driver (installed by another G4).

Neither the OS9 or OSX install disks will put an OS9 driver onto a hard drive in a FW800. THAT's why - the only reason - you "cannot" run OS9 native on a FW800.

When running OS9 native on his FW800, my friend reports that his OSX drive does not mount. Equally, when running OSX, the OS9 drive does not show up. With X the default, my friend uses the Option key at startup, to boot into 9.

I'm wondering if someone with a G5 could try out the same method, to see if OS9 will run native on a G5. Please let us all know.

My friend, Howard Miller, is presently a sheep farmer, but he used to be an Apple dealer in the 1990s. He has a hoard of old Macs and Mac parts, printers, scanners etc that he traded in; if anyone is looking for such, please let him know. His address is mailto:ausg...@gmail.com

Peter
MDD Dual @1.42Ghz, Powerbook TI @1Ghz

Offline lokki

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2014, 07:11:24 AM »
MDD Dual @1.42Ghz, Powerbook TI @1Ghz

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2014, 03:00:20 PM »
I have been going through some of the older norton utility disks that I have and I found a norton utilities 8 which has system folder with 9.5.1 Mac OS ROM which boots the fw400 - may boot fw800? Give it try.
Uploaded to files server - under OS9SystemNortonUtility8.zip
Uploaded AHT 2.0.1 disk image for mdd fw800 to file server.
Uploaded a bootable disk image for Norton utilities 6.0.3 using the 9.5.1 Mac OS ROM above if anyone is interested.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2014, 12:21:23 AM »
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10342906-263.html

this article talks about this i think?

scroll to: Living in a modern OS world: Booting Mac OS 9 on 2003 (Mac OS X only) Macs

Quote
Apple recently posted a new file to its private Apple Service Provider web page (accessible only by account-holding Apple technicians and resellers) titled "MacTest Pro for Power Mac G4 (March 2003) Version 7.8.1 supports all iMac (Flat Panel) 15 inch systems only."

The file is a CD image which can be downloaded and to a disc, then used as a startup disk. Testing on a "Mac OS X-only" flat panel iMac system revealed that the image properly booted Mac OS 9.

Users can then copy a stripped-down Mac OS 9 system folder to their hard drive, and select it with the "Startup Disk" System Preferences pane, delivering a Mac OS 9 bootable internal disk.

It appears that a new MacOS ROM file (ver. 9.8.1) is what enables booting from the image.

Of course, this solution is only readily accessible by Mac service providers, but it shows that Mac OS 9 boots are not impossible on Apple's new machines. Also, please note that Mac OS 9 startup was not tested on any machines other than the 2003 flat-panel iMac. This method has been independently verified.

so hes saying this worked on the the 2003 imac g4..
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_17_fp.html

which... according to everymac.com...
Quote
:    *This model is capable of using Mac OS 9 applications within the Mac OS X "Classic" environment provided with Mac OS X 10.4.11 "Tiger" and lower ("Classic" is not supported starting with Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard"). It cannot boot into Mac OS 9.

ok so this might only be affecting this model:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 02:32:02 PM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2014, 02:34:45 PM »
https://discussions.apple.com/message/15094917#15094917

here this guy grant speaks of a special EDUCATION edition - MDD single processor 1GHZ with FW800 port that could boot os9?????????

Quote
When Apple declared the end of OS 9 bootablity, schools all over the country demanded extra time to finish their conversion to Mac OS X, especially the Server infrastructure. They needed new Macs, but could not yet support them on their older Servers, and could not convert to newer Servers without more time. There was ONE model issued later, only for the Education market, with a single 1.0GHz processor AND a FW800 port that could still boot OS 9.

There is thought to be a special version of the Mac OS ROM file (developed for that Mac) and few more additions that may be able to be coaxed to boot OS 9 directly on a FW800 G4. That Mac OS ROM file was also said to be found in an Apple-only diagnostic package that was never released to the outside world.

That is all the info I have. I have never tried to track down the files or verified their existence.

WOW man.. i was just being asked to buy a 1ghz mdd single processor? and i didnt say yes to it because i thought someone had tampered with it. because i couldnt see nay listing of a single processor 1.0ghz mdd...
wow..... i just emailed the guy to see if this mac had a fw800 port..
hope the guy knows what a fw800 port is.. i should have included a picture! LOL

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2014, 04:24:38 PM »
Chris as I mentioned in your post new Quicksilver I put up photos for a 1ghz fw800 mdd model computer which I paid 0.99c on ebay - however there was no classic system on it - no macos9 ROM.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2014, 04:26:44 PM »
Chris as I mentioned in your post new Quicksilver I put up photos for a 1ghz fw800 mdd model computer which I paid 0.99c on ebay - however there was no classic system on it - no macos9 ROM.

ok! i didnt catch that it was a 1ghz mdd (educational fw800 non retail model), i thought u said u got a 1.42ghz mdd fw800 (the retail model). perhaps this is a myth/legend.. or perhaps it was only on some specific educational os install disc??
maybe we will never know - tbh i think its really stupid that they made these computers unable to boot 9.. i really dont understand the logic behind it.. other then they wanted everyone to use X.... and achieved this by force.

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2014, 04:50:22 PM »
I don't believe that these were educational models only because this had come from a business which
they had stopped using around 2006 - from what I can see.
So I just think these computers were probably the low end at the time the other dual mdd's were selling.

Don't really know - having a guess.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2014, 05:33:11 PM »
well if u look up the information, there is no public info on an mdd of that single cpu configuration so..*shrug*
if it didnt have the fw800 port u would think its just an 867mhz with some type of overclock done somehow..
 but with a fw800 port it has to be aspecific model that wasnt publicly advertised

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2014, 08:12:35 PM »
I do have a mdd dual 1.25 fw400 model mdd that I put a fw800 cpu into - the dual 1.42 - and it works fine in Macos9 - very quick but very hot. Needs extra cooling - have 2 more fans but still I think it would do better with a radiator - just have to alter the heat sink for the cpu that's all.

Also the ati graphics card that came with the dual 1.42 mdd - the 9700pro OEM is a fast card in macosX but also runs very hot in a mdd. Have had to change the fans twice on it don't know what happened to the fans. Works in macos9 after sorting out extensions that just do not work with it.(ATI accelerator & ATI 3d accelerator if I can remember) Not a good macos9 card - no support for 3d and other accelerators but a great macosx card - I changed it with the 9000 pro which works very well with os9.


supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2014, 05:46:44 AM »
according to this post in a google group it should be easy:

Quote
Neither the OS9 or OSX install disks will put an OS9 driver onto a hard drive in a FW800. THAT's why - the only reason - you "cannot" run OS9 native on a FW800.

When running OS9 native on his FW800, my friend reports that his OSX drive does not mount. Equally, when running OSX, the OS9 drive does not show up. With X the default, my friend uses the Option key at startup, to boot into 9.

I'm wondering if someone with a G5 could try out the same method, to see if OS9 will run native on a G5. Please let us all know.

megaupload is long gone.. so we cant get that macos9rom but
i was thinking similar thoughts last nite..  i was talking to diehard about the  "software restore" 5 disk set that i received with my 933 qs....he was saying that the 9.2.2 on the cds wouldnt allow me to 'boot os9' he meant to install JUST os 9.2.2 without installing X at all.. as u have to isntall both im sure to get anything off the software restore discs..

but having had to just do some carbon copy cloning MAGIC just to get my 'os9 driver" onto the disk.... this was the exact thign i was thinking about re people saying os 9 wouldnt boot etc.. well perhaps these installs just lacked the process of adding that mac os 9 driver to the hard drive in the first place.. and what if u had the right rom for the machine.. as well as the os9 drivers on the disk.. but that was my thoguht exacltly.. what if the installers dont put this os9 driver on the disk.. because i couldnt figure out how.. the lady who sold me her 933 was able to install osx 10.1 fresh install without adding the "os9 drivers" to either hardrive on the system???
and as u know this "os9 driver" we speak of.. can only be added to a drive when its completely EMPTY and being formatted + partitioned initially... if this crucial step is missing it will never boot. u can install 400 times in a row and the machine will never boot 9 untill it has the drive prepared for 9 properly before even installing....
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 05:55:11 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2014, 10:40:20 AM »
...put your FW800 into Disk Target Mode, connect it to a Mac Os 9 Mac, and reformat its HD  with Mac Os 9 drivers as you'll do whith a normal FW external enclosure.
Then you can drag-install a valid system folder on the FW800 HD (still in DTM mode) and restart your Mac os 9 machine whith the HD of the FW800 (still in DTM mode) to test this HD boot.
Shut down both computers, unplug FW cable, cross your fingers and start the FW800.
Good luck.

I think that Mac Os ROM 10.2.1 will do the trick. But I never tried to boot a FW800 with Mac Os 9...
If you need another ROM version, just ask, I have an almost complete colecction :)
I'll hope to have explained it well...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2014, 12:05:00 PM »
...put your FW800 into Disk Target Mode, connect it to a Mac Os 9 Mac, and reformat its HD  with Mac Os 9 drivers as you'll do whith a normal FW external enclosure.
Then you can drag-install a valid system folder on the FW800 HD (still in DTM mode) and restart your Mac os 9 machine whith the HD of the FW800 (still in DTM mode) to test this HD boot.
Shut down both computers, unplug FW cable, cross your fingers and start the FW800.
Good luck.

I think that Mac Os ROM 10.2.1 will do the trick. But I never tried to boot a FW800 with Mac Os 9...
If you need another ROM version, just ask, I have an almost complete colecction :)
I'll hope to have explained it well...

Jakl! its up to you to test this!! i want to know all the results:D ASAP! get to work!  LOL

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2014, 01:52:50 PM »
I will, I will Chris...:-) - its early morning will do when I get back this afternoon.

Mactron the ones I tried are 9.5.1 and 9.7.1 also 10.2.1 - I read that 9.6.1 and 9.8.1 have been shown to work, but I don't have these ROMs.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2014, 05:52:23 PM »

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2014, 06:29:21 PM »
if we are able to do the fw800 g4.. wouldnt we then be able to do the same thing on like.. the g4 mac mini's?  or the later powerbook g4s?
maybe not

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9
good list here
ive never actually checked this page before

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 02:51:46 AM »
Well peoples no go - no system folder with the ROMs that I have booted into macos9 on the FW800 - I installed four system macos9 versions with the HD wiped clean each time with Norton utilities Wipe Info.

No go guys with 9.5.1, 9.7.1, 10.2.1, install CD of macos9 with version 8.9.1. none worked.

Anymore suggestions?


supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2014, 04:03:33 AM »
Well peoples no go - no system folder with the ROMs that I have booted into macos9 on the FW800 - I installed four system macos9 versions with the HD wiped clean each time with Norton utilities Wipe Info.

No go guys with 9.5.1, 9.7.1, 10.2.1, install CD of macos9 with version 8.9.1. none worked.

Anymore suggestions?
wasnt the whole point to initiaize the drive in os9 on a working g4 everytime
to put the os9 drivers on the disk.. they said that the fw800 is incapable of putting the os9 driver on the drive if u wipe the drive on the fw800...
wait are u saying u used norton in target disk mode to the other g4?
and u arent using the rom  that they said worked..

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 04:31:29 AM »
this what I did:
target disk mode from macos9 from a mdd g4 fw400 - wiped HD of FW800 computer using Norton Utilities 6.0.3. Booted into Tiger from mdd g4 fw400 computer and Target Disk Mode reformatted drive with OS9 drivers and installed MDD400 OS9General(then booted) - MDD800 OS9General(then booted) - System folders with different ROMS(then booted).

- The computer only booted up to the question mark on the boot screen - thats it.

Repeated process everytime totally erased HD to make sure nothing was on it then installed macos9 drivers.

The last try I used a Digital Audio G4 and target disk mode to install macos9.2.1 from the CD installer only because the MDD FW400 would not install it from that particular CD. Still no luck.

I still haven't tried MacOS ROMs 9.6.1 and 9.8.1 which have been known to work. If you have them I'll try.

This supports what I was thinking ages ago that there must be a ROM on the motherboard for OS9 to use to boot into. It is not on the CPU because you can use a FW800 CPU on a FW400 board and boot macos9.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2014, 05:31:03 AM »
This supports what I was thinking ages ago that there must be a ROM on the motherboard for OS9 to use to boot into. It is not on the CPU because you can use a FW800 CPU on a FW400 board and boot macos9.

right, i get this mode of thinking..
but is there some type of bios area on the g4 motherboard?
that isnt wiped with a PRAM reset...

perhaps its actually the openfirmware version itself that is disabling the boot?
there might be little point to make it work if it took replacing some chips on the fw800 board with chips from a fw400
but what if the openfirmware programming can be copied from a fw400 to fw800..?

where else could this code be disabling the boot.. clearly like u said. the problem is on the motherboard itself..
some type of programming exists to disable this (purposefully by apple)



but is there a way to revert the openfirmware to the same that is on the fw400 machine?
perhaps many have tried this and failed in the years between then  + now
but perhaps some have succeeded (which would be the reason for this post from "Peter" above, or it could be he is just a troll? LOL)

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2014, 05:41:34 AM »
this what I did:
target disk mode from macos9 from a mdd g4 fw400 - wiped HD of FW800 computer using Norton Utilities 6.0.3. Booted into Tiger from mdd g4 fw400 computer and Target Disk Mode reformatted drive with OS9 drivers and installed MDD400 OS9General(then booted) - MDD800 OS9General(then booted) - System folders with different ROMS(then booted).

- The computer only booted up to the question mark on the boot screen - that

from what i gathered from the original post, i would be moving the harddrive physically from a fw400 rather then using targetdisk mode
becasue targetdisk mode is governed by the openfirmware right?

my brain would put the process like this:
-new hard drive installed into existing mac os 9.2.2 install on a 9 booting mdd
-intialize with drive setup
-copy all system folders etc
-reboot to the new drive (startup disk change) to ensure that it works
-reboot back to the original boot drive on the 9 mac.. (startup disk change back)
-shutdown + remove the hard drive that has been confirmed 'bootable'
-install hard drive on its own as the only drive in the fw800 mac
-boot up fw800 machine with option key to see if it sees the partition/drive

whatever it is that stops it.. its probably the exact same on the powermac g5!


Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2014, 06:08:37 AM »
I have tried this ages ago and if I can recall same problem happens.
I recall I am revisiting this boot problem - never got it before maybe my
last hope that it may happen this time around...:)


supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2014, 06:12:16 AM »
I have tried this ages ago and if I can recall same problem happens.
I recall I am revisiting this boot problem - never got it before maybe my
last hope that it may happen this time around...:)

probably yes:(
i bet this is programmed in the code of the openfirmware
u would have to be an "embedded systems" programmer
or learn openfirmware language to try to circumvent!

do powermac g5's run off the same openfirmware?
we probably wont be able to fix this
but it would be super cool to see it being hacked some day..
maybe 30 years from now someone will crack:D hahaha

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2014, 06:18:53 AM »

perhaps its actually the openfirmware version itself that is disabling the boot?
there might be little point to make it work if it took replacing some chips on the fw800 board with chips from a fw400
but what if the openfirmware programming can be copied from a fw400 to fw800..?
[/quote]

Maybe the cue in the open firmware is the FW800 port on the G4 and G5 models? As soon as that is detected the switch happens - question mark? Who knows?

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2014, 06:29:22 AM »
Maybe the cue in the open firmware is the FW800 port on the G4 and G5 models? As soon as that is detected the switch happens - question mark? Who knows?

my thoughts are that the fw800 port doesnt actually stop it. its jsut a coincidence i think.. i mean apple made the decision to disable this..
i highly doubt that the fw800 port is the thing actually stopping it due to a physical incompatibility.. because there are plenty of fw800 adapter cards that work in os9
albeit at fw400 speed due to no software driver/support libraries or whatever .. they disabled it becaue they wanted to.. plain + Simple.otehrwise all g5s would be able to boot os9.
i guess we will never know if there is truly a hardware reason why they did this. or if they just did it because they felt like it..
i guarantee u it was steve jobs order to make this happen so that "osx could flourish" .. well ok i cant guarantee it :) but i strongly believe that it was a tactical strategic move with no real hardware incompatibility! this decision must have come at the end of all the hard work they put into building osx from ground up.. they probably got to a point that they were happy with it + They literally forced everyone to adopt it as the new standard.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 12:19:36 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2014, 01:24:03 PM »
Can anyone show me a FW400 only mac that is not macos9 bootable?
Or do we know of any G4's that do not boot Macos9 and that does not have a FW800 port?

I think the FW800 port must be built into the motherboard for this openfirmaware switch to happen
and/or maybe even USB2 as well because none were supported in macos9.

So if a mac had FW800 &/or USB2 then macos9 was not bootable.

There maybe an enabler floating around somewhere that overrides this - I hope. ???
Maybe it's sitting there on the mac desktop invisible and we just cannot see it... ::)
Or is there a way in macos9 to show invisible files?

It would be great to be able to follow the code at boot. Anyway...

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2014, 04:03:32 PM »
You should try the "Mythical" Custer ROM (includes Mac Os ROM 9.8.1):
https://www.adrive.com/public/Fgb3Ge/MacOs922custer.img.sit
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2014, 07:27:41 PM »
Tried the MacOs922custer image - error in expansion
"The Mount Image operation did not complete. (130)
The checksum is invalid.


Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2014, 02:22:46 PM »
Tried the MacOs922custer image - error in expansion
"The Mount Image operation did not complete. (130)
The checksum is invalid.
File fixed!
Sorry for the inconvenience...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2014, 02:24:43 PM »
ahh that sucks!  :'( i was all excited to see  new post to see if it worked or not  ;D

Offline lokki

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2014, 02:36:59 PM »
i will try this as well since i now fixed my mddfw800 (power supply was missing 5v)

i think it is important to have a harddisk with osx in the mdd as well. just a feeling....

@mactron: i can't download the mythical thingy, file was removed :-(
MDD Dual @1.42Ghz, Powerbook TI @1Ghz

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2014, 03:14:03 PM »
Sorry. I'd forgotten to enable the share option ...

https://www.adrive.com/public/syXMEV/MacOs922custer.img.sit
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline lokki

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2014, 03:18:21 PM »
no problem. i am downloading now...
MDD Dual @1.42Ghz, Powerbook TI @1Ghz

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2014, 05:49:10 PM »
Thank you very much for that Mactron - have installed it onto the HD of my FW800
still on boot screen - option pressed - it didn't show up as a bootable disk.
I have just installed 10.2.4 on a separate partition to see if will work in classic and then
see if it will boot up.

Still early in the testing - hopefully something may come up to do that may make it work.
We''ll have to wait and see.


Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2014, 12:47:00 AM »
How are you going lokki have you tested it yet?

I'm a little busy will get into it tomorrow - I hope.

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2014, 05:32:30 AM »
I swear the real problem lies not in the rom but in the openfirmware version

maybe u could hack openfirmware to boot from that device much in the way that they do this usb drive:
https://sites.google.com/site/shawnhcorey/howto-boot-apple-powerpcs-from-a-usb-drive-in-open-firmware

more on openfirmware:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9OMOHl73IE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_khaWNGESs
http://lowendmac.com/2007/fooling-the-os-x-10-5-leopard-installer-with-open-firmware/

Offline lokki

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2014, 08:15:17 AM »
it will be monday before i can test.
MDD Dual @1.42Ghz, Powerbook TI @1Ghz

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2014, 05:25:06 PM »
I swear the real problem lies not in the rom but in the openfirmware version

maybe u could hack openfirmware to boot from that device much in the way that they do this usb drive:
https://sites.google.com/site/shawnhcorey/howto-boot-apple-powerpcs-from-a-usb-drive-in-open-firmware

more on openfirmware:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9OMOHl73IE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_khaWNGESs
http://lowendmac.com/2007/fooling-the-os-x-10-5-leopard-installer-with-open-firmware/

I like the openfirmware post - not enough said, but I am posting the two different boot lists from a firewire 400 and a firewire 800. Maybe someone may be able to work out what is happening here.

The fw400a and fw400b is from a mdd fw400 dual 1.42ghz machine macos9 bootable
The fw800a and fw800b is from a mdd fw800 single 1.00ghz machine not macos9 bootable.

Here the photos;
The photos do overlap quite a bit for each photo but I'm sure you can follow them.

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2014, 05:46:55 PM »
Okay folks found one area where there is a difference in the boot processors - see photo.
From fw800b has a few extra boot items;

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2014, 11:59:19 AM »
if u compare the output from starting up *without* the disk attached..
and then *WITH*..

u should be able to see the "/disk@1" entry below the controller its connected to - as the usb article points out
we can see the 2 disks connected on the ATA bus of your fw800 (ata-3@20000 & ata-4@1f000)
so i think to boot the disk directly with openfirmware u would type:

boot ata-3/disk,\yaboot
or
boot ata-4/disk,\yaboot

this could be incorrect u have to see the devalias for the ata3 + ata4 devices by typing "devalias" and checking thru to find the keyword for this device
but even after all of this.. its possible that the result would be the exact same -that it just will not boot.

the section u have highlighted with the red box indeed seems to be the fw800 extra port on the firewire controller
but i think the code that actually disables booting os9 at all would be  part of the "/rom@ff800000 /boot-rom@fff00000"
programming of the rom itself...... i have no idea how to change this openfirmware rom
but i think it the machine would ever be capable of booting it would have to have this boot-rom reprogrammed to include the mac os 9 handling codes
that are present in any other non-fw800 g4

but do i think that its possible to reflash/reprogram the bootrom?? yes sure! i think so! but requiring some advanced indepth knowledge of this openfirmware system.. undocumented + hard to find knowledge i bet!

we should try to get a thread going to point to reference info on openfirmware
http://www.firmworks.com/QuickRef.html
heres one i just found
but i think this topic deserves its own thread;)

its very ironic people are able to load Linux onto old powermac g4 fw800s but not mac os 9 .. gg apple;)


« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 12:37:34 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline lokki

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2014, 12:35:31 PM »
i attempted to get this up and running today. no chance. i also think we have to hack the open firmware :-)
MDD Dual @1.42Ghz, Powerbook TI @1Ghz

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2014, 12:39:04 PM »
i attempted to get this up and running today. no chance. i also think we have to hack the open firmware :-)

Determining BootROM or Firmware Version
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2568

so theres two roms at play here: the BOOT Rom and the MAC OS Rom
Quote
Production information
ROM revision: $77D.44B5
Boot ROM version: 1.1f4
Mac OS ROM file version: 1.3
Serial number: XB00000000XXX-XXX
Software bundle: 694-1137
Sales order number: Not applicable
why dont u compare the BOOT Rom versions of the fw400 vs the fw800?
thats a good place to start
guaranteed they are different


im reading this now:
https://discussions.apple.com/message/18227055#18227055
ok so in this article they used some type of firmware update
that gets run in 9.1 or 9.2
so that he could install mac os x ..
where is this firmware update?

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1126?viewlocale=en_US
here it is..
Quote
Firmware Update 4.2.8 includes improvements to starting up Mac OS X from the local hard disk, FireWire target disk mode, network startup, gigabit networking (on systems with gigabit hardware), and system stability. This update also adds support for additional security options that allow the Open Firmware to be password-protected.
does this enable target disk mode for powermac g3s? nope it says AGP g4 models only

is this firmware the same thing as the "Boot rom" ? i think so?

trouble is.. u cant install this because it requires 9;) LOL

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2014, 04:34:30 PM »
I forgot to mention Chris that I did try to boot the macos9 disk and there was a circle with a line through it much like a non-smoking sign without the cigarette. Just wouldn't boot.

The 4 different jpg's I placed here are the two different mdd's - 2 jpgs for fw400 - 2 jpgs for fw800. The fifth photo jpg is the comparison between the two mdd openfirmware boots. The boot Rom versions for open firmware are exactly the same number etc. the only difference is the red box that I put in there. So the same openfirmware boot rom(motherboard) but different computer boot rom.

The firmware on my fw400 model is 4.4.8f2
The firmware on my fw800 model is 4.6.0f1

It does say previous to the red square I marked in the photo that it was a programmers switch - whether that is the point for the switch between the two - boot vs nonboot - maybe it would be the search for the line of code that refers to this?

[/quote]
so theres two roms at play here: the BOOT Rom and the MAC OS Rom
[/quote]

So the openformware Boot rom opens the ports to allow input/output - and even when I tried to boot up at this point from o/f boot rom it wouldn't - so it must the boot rom of the computer not the openfirmware boot that is the culprit because both openfirmware boot ROM are the same - refer to photo jpg fw400a and fw800a.

So there must be a openfirmware boot rom and a motherboard boot rom and a macos rom - more spanners in the works? who knows?

So anybody know how to hack the o/f Boot ROM comp Boot ROM or flash it?

I'm sure someone in this group knows whats going on here - some secrets that they may be able to tell us about what is happening.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 04:46:32 PM by Jakl »

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2014, 06:48:53 PM »
I just read the above post written by me - bloody confusing.

In other words if the computer firmware for the fw400 and the fw800 are different.
And the openfirmware boot are the same then what does that mean?

Something to do with the computer firmware?
So if the Fw4oo firmware could be loaded into the Fw800 firmware we would have a
macos9 bootable system with working fw800 and usb2 ports wouldn't we - since these ports are opened up at the level of openfirmware.

Anybody's thoughts?


supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2014, 06:57:58 PM »
So if the Fw4oo firmware could be loaded into the Fw800 firmware we would have a
macos9 bootable system with working fw800 and usb2 ports wouldn't we - since these ports are opened up at the level of openfirmware.

exactly.. but how does this get accomplished?
short of pulling both bios chips off each motherboard + copying the contents of the fw400 to the fw800'c bios chip.. with a chip programmer, and then reattaching the chips.. if they are even viewable on the mainboards that is..


supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2014, 07:03:45 PM »
So the openformware Boot rom opens the ports to allow input/output - and even when I tried to boot up at this point from o/f boot rom it wouldn't - so it must the boot rom of the computer not the openfirmware boot that is the culprit because both openfirmware boot ROM are the same - refer to photo jpg fw400a and fw800a.

i believe this statement made by you is incorrect/false.
the "fff00000" this is not a version.. but rather a location..
the computer is saying .. "i have located teh bootrom..and it is located at "fff00000" same way that your house is located at 123 ABC street.
this is not a version code.. the fact that u see the same fff00000 on each image is nothing to do with the version or contents of the boot rom,
but rather its "address" - remember this text u took a picture of is the output of a command telling the computer to list its device tree

the rom@ff800000 is the actual chip hardware address
and the next like about "Bootrom" is the firmware file.rom inside that chip..
if u notice the next line down is called "macos" thats probably a copy of the macos rom that gets copied there
so theres two roms stored inside the chip... if not maybe "macos" is a program or saved settings .. but i doubt it i think its a copy of the "macos rom" like the one that mactron has shared with you.. perhaps theres some way within openfirmware to query these roms to see the version attribute.

according to the article
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2568

the directions to see bootrom version are displayed the first thing u see when opening openfirmware
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1. Shut down.
2. Start up and hold down cmd-opt-o-f
3. The Boot ROM Revision is displayed at the top of the screen.
4. Type "bye" followed by <return> to continue starting up in Mac OS.

i think the "firmware" + boot rom are the same thing.

so u want to figure out how to put The firmware on *fw400 model 4.4.8f2*
onto the firmware on the fw800 model -- overwriting the 4.6.0f1 firmware
which means u would have to find some type of firmware flashing utility that runs on OSX to do this
and have both machines with OSX  installations and somehow backup the rom on the fw400
and then flash it on the fw800.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 08:45:42 AM by chrisNova777 »

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2014, 08:41:01 PM »
What you said makes much more sense - I was getting a little confused about all this.

If we could get the fw400 and fw800 roms and compare we would definitely see the difference but who - you know maybe a macos9 programmer from Apple is checking us out  8) hopefully they can lead us in the right direction.

Come on down fellas and help us boot macos9 on the G4 fw800 macs and the G5's.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2014, 10:48:44 PM »
I check this thread everyday... and it gives a terrible case of bad Deja Vu...

Quote
This is like an old wound that never heals...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 11:27:08 PM by DieHard »

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #74 on: April 01, 2014, 12:37:26 AM »
I can imagine ;D