quadro vs geforce ... pro digital content creation vs gaming ...

[supernova777]

The Nvidia Quadro series[1] of AGP, PCI, and PCI Express graphics cards comes from the Nvidia Corporation. The cards' designers aimed to accelerate CAD (Computer-Aided Design) and DCC (digital content creation), and the Quadro series cards are usually featured in workstations (compared to the Nvidia GeForce product line, which specifically targets computer gaming). Competing products include the FirePro line of workstation graphics cards by AMD (made formerly by ATI Technologies, Inc.). Companies such as Matrox and Avid also focus on specialized hardware-accelerated graphics cards intended primarily for DCC.--wikipedia

for mac os 9 compatibility : anything lower then the 900 XGL (no "80" models - the "8" refers to AGP8x which the g4's are not)
for mac os 9 performance : the 700 XGL, 750 XGL + 900 XGL are the best cards (out of the 100% compatible ones because they are a match for the ti4400, ti4600)
but perhaps the 550XGL may be a good performer for those who want no fan 100% silent card

im assuming these cards can be flashed to their geforce ppc counterparts!!

QUADRO(GPU) == GEFORCE lookup table
Quadro(NV10GL) == GeForce 256
Quadro2 MXR(NV11GL) == GeForce2 MX
Quadro2 EX(NV11GL) == GeForce2 MX
Quadro2 Pro(NV15GL) == GeForce2 Ti http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=122&card2=332
Quadro DCC(NV20GL) == GeForce3 Ti http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=132&card2=333
550XGL(NV17GL) == GeForce4 MX440(4x) (silent) http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=127&card2=490
580XGL(NV18GL) == GeForce4 MX440(8x)
700XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4400(4x)(64mb ram) http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=136&card2=489
750XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4400(4x)(128mb ram) http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=136&card2=486
900XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4600(4x)(128mb ram)(preferred) (p83) http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=135&card2=334
780XGL(NV28GL) == Ti4400(8x)(128mb ram)(gpureview.com lists this card as 4x but im sure the "8" denotes 8x)
980XGL(NV28GL) == Ti4600(8x)(128mb ram)
FX500 (NV34GL) == FX5200 (P118)
FX700 (NV31GL) == FX5600 (p162)
FX1000(NV30GL) == FX5800
FX1100(NV36GL) == FX5700 (p190?)
FX2000(NV30GL) == FX5800 (p128)
FX3000(NV35GL) == FX5900
FX4000(NV40gL) == Geforce 6800
FX550(NV43GL)  == Geforce 6600
FX560(G73GL)    == Geforce 7600
FX570(G84)       == Geforce 8600
FX580(G96)       == 9400/9500
see full chart : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Quadro

While the Quadros have all the same features of the GeForce4, the Quadro4 cards include additional OpenGL functions not found in the consumer GeForce4 cards, such as hardware overlay and clipping planes.

search ebay for "nvidia p83"
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.XP83+nvidia&_nkw=P83+nvidia&_sacat=0&_from=R40
and u can find the appropriate ti4600 equivelent with dual dvi or dvi/vga variants for 10-30$
amongst the occasional idiot trying to sell the 10year+ tech for 250$ per card (facepalm)
if u pay attention to the dvi/vga ports + capacitors u can tell which one is the 900xgl/4600 variety
vs the 700/750/ti4200/ti4400 variety

found this info on nvidia part numbers:
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Guide-to-nVidia-Video-Card-Model-Numbering-System-/10000000010410734/g.html

x1xx-x2xx : very low end, embedded (ie: geforce 6 series 6200)
x3xx-x5xx : low end, "mainstream" (ie: geforce FX 5500)
x6xx : midrange (ie: 5600, 6600, 7600)
x8xx : high end (ie: 5800, 6800, 7800)
x9xx : higher end (ie: fx 5900, 7900)

nVidia-Quadro4-700XGL-64MB

http://www.ebay.com/itm/nVidia-Quadro4-700XGL-64MB-180-10080-0000-A04-P80-graphics-card-E21-/291066669719?pt=US_CD_DVD_Blu_Ray_Drives&hash=item43c4ecea97

this card.. i've noticed uses the same GPU chip as the geforce 4 ti4600but would probably be available much cheaper due to not being as prominently known and there is a modified rom for it on macelite site. id bet it works with the same geforce drivers in mac os 9!!! although it does have 64mb ram instead of 128mb on the geforce 4 ti 4600.. but the memory is more about swapping + thruput i thik rather then a factor in actual speed of performance
as ive read japamac say the radeon 9800 128mb is no less fast the the 256mb version etc

note: there was also the 980XGL in the same "NV25" family but that card was AGP 8x, therefore would require taping pins? where the 700XGL is 4x and would be 100% compatible with 4x agp powermacs on closer look perhaps the 980XGL is more of a match up wiith the ti4600 xcept its 8x agp... and maybe the 700xgl is more of a match for the ti4400 ? either way they are all in the same gpu family, perhaps just clocked at different speeds/different ram sizes

The NVIDIA Quadro®4 XGL series sets the standard for professional graphics by delivering breakthrough application performance, graphics programmability and multi-display productivity. No other graphics vendor is able to deliver a top-to-bottom suite of workstation products, all certified by more professional applications than any other workstation graphics solution in the industry. Every NVIDIA Quadro4 product features NVIDIA's revolutionary nView(TM) multi-display technology—for improved productivity for every workstation professional. - See more at: http://www.nvidia.ca/page/quadro4xgl.html#sthash.N0dNog4m.dpuf --nvidia site about the XGL series

overview pdf
http://www.nvidia.ca/object/LO_20020215_7302.html




yes as u can see the numbers line up that way ! 4400 = 700xgl, 4600 == 980xgl, even the ram sizes + speeds are identical

then i noticed: the nvidia quadro4 780xgl

this one uses the next step up gpu NV28 vs the 750xgl still using the nv25
but is still agp 4x where the other nv28's are all agp 8x and also features 128mb ofvram
notice also it came out in november 2002,10mths after the ti4600..
same gpu as the GeForce4 Ti4800 but in 4x agp (4x agp ensure total compatibility with 4x powermac g4 no need to tape pins)

HERE WE HAVE IT
this card .. is both agp 4x.. + same numbers as Ti4600!

but less well known.. and probably easier to find a deal on
it also appears this card is DUAL DVI! remember the quadro series were for professional graphics workstations in the pro market
and geforce was aimed at consumer entertainment gaming thats why these ones are dual dvi!



checking ebay i see a good number of these cards available .. from dell + ibm systems


only problem is there is no rom file posted for the 900 XGL - if it doesnt work automatically that is..
but ive foudn other rom flashers referencing the card + references to mac version  of the card so the rom must exist!

remember the geforce 4 cards are compatible with aLL POWERMAC G4's every model across teh board.. and all compatible with mac os 9.

[supernova777]

http://www.gpureview.com/quadro-fx-1100-card-337.html



this card is powered by NV36 gpu similar to the geforce fx 5700 ... and features dual dvi ports
although it says agp 8x it seems to have the notiches on the card to indicate 2x + 4x compatibility
400mhz+core clock
from late 2003
seems to be the last AGP card in the Quadro series as the next card in series, the fx 1300 is PCI-E, (early adoption to pci-e as this was midway in 2005 can be attributed to the pro 3d workstation nature of the quadro series)

heres a comparison to the geforce4 ti4600

seems to be almost comparable but the ti4600 came out early 2002 and the quadrofx1100 .. very late in 2003.
almost a 2 year update

question is: are these cards mac compatible?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-XW8000-nVidia-Quadro-FX1100-AGP-2xDVI-128MB-Card-351382-001-350968-001-USA-/161175394294?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item2586cd57f6
this listing shows many for sale from a seller called "macstuff4sale"
25$ seems to be a pretty decent deal;)

to put this in perspective.. do a similar search now on ebay for the cards that this card just slightly outperforms..
cards such as :
Radeon 9800 XT
Radeon 9800 Pro
Radeon x800 SE
and youll see prices alot higher.. but the specs are slightly better on the fx1100.. and its release date is also newer
also the NV36 chips are listed as compatible with 10.5.x hackintosh distributions and would probably work for 10.6.x too

[supernova777]

QUADRO(GPU) == GEFORCE
580XGL(NV18GL) == Geforce4 MX440
700XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4200(4x)
750XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4400(4x)
900XGL(NV25GL) == Ti4600(4x)(preferred)
780XGL(NV28GL) == Ti4200(8x)
980XGL(NV28GL) == Ti4800(8x)
FX500 (NV34GL) == FX5200
FX700 (NV31GL) == FX5600
FX1000(NV30GL) == FX5800
FX1100(NV36GL) == FX5700
FX2000(NV30GL) == FX5800
FX3000(NV35GL) == FX5900
FX4000(NV40gL) == Geforce 6800

im realizing if you do a search for "nvidia p83" you can find these cards for like 10-15$!!!!!!! 
as they were bundled with some ibm + dell systems and people are scrapping these old corporate machines or selling them off in auctions and the people
selling the parts have no idea what the cards are etc so they just liquidate

so if ur going to do this search for "p83" u will get any of these 4 cards coming up
u can see by these pics here the 700-series ones are DVI/VGA
whereas the 900-series ones are DVI/DVI
and if the numbers end in "80" they are the NV28 gpu instead of the NV25
clearly the 780 + 980 were introduced at a later date to the original set


nvidia-quadro4-700-xgl


quadro4-750-xgl



nvidia-quadro4-780-xgl

nvidia-quadro4-900-xgl


Geforce4 ti4600


quadro4-980-xgl



these pics arent entirely accurate .. because the capacitors are actually different per model

Fx3000 (FX5900 Equivelant, similar to a radeon x800 XL) NV35GL @ 400 MHz, 27.2 GB/s 8x AGP


Fx4000 (6800GT Equivelant, similar in specs to a 7800GS aswell) NV40GL @375 MHz, 32GB/s 8x AGP


wow here u can see the original prices..2000$+ .. insane!

[supernova777]

QUADRO FX1100 AGP == equal to an upgraded geforce 5 series FX5700 AGP
NOTE THESE ARE 8X AGP CARDS WHICH MUST BE FLASHED + TAPES PINNED FOR G4'S IF THEY EVEN WORK AT ALL (which id like to find out) statistically slightly above a 9700 pro with dual dvi
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350968-002-HP-VIDEO-QDRFX1100-12MBAGPNWFN-CARD-128MB-433513001-AGP-1100-QUADRO-F-/321267795399?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item4acd0d85c7

here u can find quadro fx1100 AGP cards (NV36 @425 MHz 10.4)
for 8$ each.. these cards support dual dvi monitors as well they will support core image in mac os x (because they are NV34 + up. NV34 was the fx5200)
question is can they be recognized with or without flash!! for $8 if i have a pc with an agp slot + a pci video card (so u can see what your doing when u flash)
it might be worth 8$ to check it out..

More than 10 available
originally 900$ (LOL!)

to put this in perspective - check this auction by these assholes "apple macanix" charging 350$ for a FX 5600 dual dvi
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-Pro-nVidia-Quadro-FX-5600-1-5GB-Dual-DVI-Video-Graphics-Card-661-4461-/281067915278?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item4170f4080e

this card runs on NV31 gpu chip.. the one i linked above for $8 runs on the NV36 gpu chip
from what i gathered on the documentation about the 10.5.x hackintosh supported cards.. its not reccomended for use with anything les then nv34..
this will show u how fucked up these sellers are to be selling these graphic cards "FOR MAC" because they flashed them.. and charging 350$ for a card thats worse then
the next card up which is being liquidated for free almost..

unbelievable some of these people on ebay!!!!!!!!!! makes me want to punch em in the face !!!!!!!!!!!!

if u check his seller info u can see this guy also sells lego /playmobil toys?? wtf?
u know this guy is making his entire living off ripping people liek you and me off 100%
charging 150-350$ for video cards he probably gets for 40$

im surprised he doesnt get sued for using the apple logo + likeness to promote his "Refurb" flashed cards

[supernova777]

syntho did u ever try flashing the quadra card to a mac ti 4600??

[MacTron]

The GeForce4 derived Quadro4 cards use what is internally known as the NV25GL core; likewise, GeForce4 MX derived cards use the NV17GL core. As we mentioned before, the GL suffix actually indicates a different piece of silicon with a larger transistor count and die size than its desktop counterpart.

If there is a Mac ROM for the Quadro4 700 gfx and works in Mac Os 9, may be the Quadro4 900 gfx could be successfully Mac Flashed as it is more similar to a ti4600 ... despite this GL sufix...

[supernova777]

The GeForce4 derived Quadro4 cards use what is internally known as the NV25GL core; likewise, GeForce4 MX derived cards use the NV17GL core. As we mentioned before, the GL suffix actually indicates a different piece of silicon with a larger transistor count and die size than its desktop counterpart.

If there is a Mac ROM for the Quadro4 700 gfx and works in Mac Os 9, may be the Quadro4 900 gfx could be successfully Mac Flashed as it is more similar to a ti4600 ... despite this GL sufix...

i suspected this before which is why i told both Syntho + Diehard to buy Quadro FX 900 cards
they both bought them off ebay for 20-25$ each, so they both have the cards neccessary to test..so if u have any specific instructions
figured out on what to do to test i suggest u forward that info to them, if they would be interested in trying.. i dont see why they wouldnt... the only thing stopping them is knowing wtf to do to flash the cards.

i had intended on getting one for myself locally (to save shipping charges) but the deal fell thru and the guy stopped responding to my emails!! otherwise i would have tried myself!

[MacTron]

... the only thing stopping them is knowing wtf to do to flash the cards.

- Place the Video Card inside an AGP PC.
- Make a MS DOS bootable device.
- Flash the card with nvFlash with the Ti4600 Mac ROM or the Quadro 700 Mac ROM.


http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nvflash-basics

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/faq/id-1872554/flash-gpu-bios-nvflash.html

[MacTron]

I'm bidding on ebay for one of those Quadro4 900 GLX cards...

... If the above procedure isn't successful we have to edit the ROM. A key point will be identify and compare the VRAM chips of those Quadro cards against the original Apple Nvidia Ti 4600.

[supernova777]

im fairly confident it is possible 


DUAL DVI!! NV25 ti4600 graphics!!

its a dream come true;) we all deserve to have the best mac os 9 has to offer.. based on our efforts

[MacTron]

I hope to have one of those cards in my hands at the end of the next week...
... to start the tests.
let's see how it goes ... 

[supernova777]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html

japamac linked this document from his graphics page re: pci-e g5's
i think it applies to all tho
a general comparison between the two lines.. geforce vs quadro

[MacTron]

First attempt : Failed 

[supernova777]

more info please..? which did not work
using which card?

nvidia-quadro4-900-xgl ?
using which rom?

[MacTron]

more info please..? which did not work

The mac startup but the screen is black ( on both DVI connectors).

And the PC can't start up with this card installed. So this is an end game for me.

using which card?

nvidia-quadro4-900-xgl ?

Yes, the nVidia Quadro4 900 XGL

using which rom?

the Mac nVidia Ti 4600 ROM.
I had to use NVFLASH 4.4.6 (attached) because 5.x versions can't recognize this card.

some screenshots:

[Protools5LEGuy]

Did you tested only on MDD?

Were the DVI converted to VGA?

Did you do the http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11 ?

[supernova777]

he shouldnt have to do the pins its a 4x agp card

[MacTron]

Did you tested only on MDD?

No, I've tested it on a Sawtooth too.

Were the DVI converted to VGA?

DVI "direct" and VGA through a DVI to VGA adapter.

[supernova777]

realy sucks that this didnt work easily 

[MacTron]

realy sucks that this didnt work easily 

The card remains "damaged". The PC can't start up with this card installed, so it can't be repaired from here. Installed on a Mac Os X machine and starts normally (without video out of course). I've unsuccessfully tried to reflash it again via VNC but "a non working card can't be flashed" in Mac Os X with Zeus or Graphiccelerator 

I have also tried to mod the firmware as explained here:

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/nv-rom

But I only achieve to edit the Device ID, I couldn't find the Timings Table codes ...