Daily tasks and non-audio uses

[Jacques]

Hi, does anybody still use their (non-intel) Macs for daily stuff like email, photos and any other non audio apps? I’m thinking of trying to acquire a G4 Quicksilver as it’s the dream machine from my early university years I could never afford. I’m particularly interested to hear if anybody still uses their machines for architecture (Vectorworks, ArchiCad etc), document layout and design and photoshop. Does OS9 / <10.4 mail still work with todays mail providers like yahoo and gmail?

Thanks, Jacques.

[smilesdavis]

No for daily tasks i use a modern computer

Its like keeping an old '59 going

You dont take her to the mall

[ssp3]

Let me guess ....    ... it's a Win machine!

[teroyk]

I use lot PPC Macs, but these days I try keep them outside from internet.

But I still remember something about daily task, in OSX10.4 you can use TenFourFox for web and with it you can be read emails, if you your email provider let use Horde web-interface, if web-interface is Roundcube, you can too, but all except send-button doesn't work. Yahoo and gmail use so non standard web-interface that I think it doesn't work even old intel macs, I think they need FireFox 60 or something.

And for another non-audio use..there is ArchiCad version for MacOS9...I don't remember the last version was it 8?
Photoshop 7 works with MacOS9 and remember install AltiVecCore Update to get it work faster than OSX version.
If you have old DSLR-camera then there can be special software for MacOS9 to import raws to tiff. Even Sigma released PhotoPro for Sigma SD14 and older cameras.
What else...check yourself and you will be impressed what software have been made for MacOS9.

[ssp3]

Jacques, since I acquired my PB G4, I think I will be using early version of Electronics Workbench on it "for real". It was very simple and elegant in calculating R-L-C networks and op-amp based filters compared to modern, bloated versions of the same app.
Also, I would certainly use a "classic" Mac desktop machine, NuBus included, if I had to deal with SCSI related stuff and especially if I had to dive into SCSI Mode Pages settings.

[hpott]

As a high school student in the covid lockdown around mid 2021, I did use an iMac G3 for e-mail and checking news websites (and a bit of SimCity 3000  ) side by side with my usual computer. However, that's about all it can do since OS9 and Clasilla have a difficult time talking over modern security protocols. At one point I did set up a SSL proxy on a Raspberry Pi, but the web these days just isn't designed for older machines. Images don't load correctly and modern iterations of CSS are like gibberish to Classilla, turning most pages into a garbled mess. You might be able to get by on a G4 with OSX and InterWebPPC, but just keep in mind it's going to be slow. Gmail is no longer compatible with "less secure apps", that being older versions of IMAP/SMTP, that includes Clasilla on OS9 and Mail on Tiger, not sure about Yahoo.

[GaryN]

I still run my studio with my 9.2/10.5 MDD. Although I can (with some effort) get even 10.5 Apple Mail to talk to my Comcast server, it's more hassle than it's worth. Other internet uses are also a PITA. Even though I can use stuff like Interweb PPC to keep up with current TLS, modern web pages are too full of crap overhead for even my 2x1.8GHz CPU using old browser software.

As for graphics, I have complete sets of Adobe CS3 and CS5 and guess what? BOTH are useless! Adobe shut down the authorization servers for the old CDROM you-get-to-actually-own-the-software versions of Creative Suite. So, I lost use of CS3 on my MDD when I had a drive fail. When I restored it from a Time Machine backup, the auth was no longer valid. Protesting to Adobe was even less effective than screaming at a brick wall. Despite my having the entire Suite…in the box… with a friggin' purchase receipt, the entire set is now bricked and Adobe basically says "tough shit, buy a subscription."

So, I said "fine…you win" and I bought Affinity Designer, Photo and Publisher. It's positively great software that, while it unfortunately won't run on my MDD, it flies like a bird on my MBP under Catalina. I have both computers on a KVM switch, so artwork pops right up on my large monitor. I also have the original 64-bit versions of CS6 Illustrator and Photoshop running directly (launching from Terminal) although I'm using them less and less the more familiar I get with Affinity. Fuck Adobe.

As far as other vintage software in the CAD and other vector-based realms, I suspect a concern might be import and export difficulties from and to modern ersatz standard file formats. I still use Canvas sometimes just because it's still a great app, I can run it in my sleep and fortunately, I can move old Canvas-format drawings forward in time by two-stepping - exporting to old Illustrator and then to Affinity or whatever.

[FBz]

Word of the day today… “Elegance”?

While I do like my MDDs, the Quicksilvers here are the most definitely loved, workhorses. Their simple elegance (there’s that word again) and functional design, rates them quite possibly as my #1 machine - und zee crème de la crème. Primarily as standalone, graphic workstations. Photoshop, Illustrator, et cetera.

AND most testing of various hardware / softwares, happens here first on a Quicksilver. Mine should have zippers or velcro, instead of hinges. When I consider all of the years that I spent working with a G3 (RayDream Designer and even AutoCad)… today, the minimal cost of a Quicksilver represents a frikken rocket ship for mere pennies.

And of course depending upon your budget and current pricing & availability… you could also consider an MDD, or maybe even a G4 Mac mini.

But yeah, Quicksilver!

*In conjunction, use a newer (used) Mac (or “other” machine) for current over-bloated internet and email?

[DieHard]

Gary, we should post the "free" no activation needed CS2 special edition that adobe released, it seems they took it off their website... figures
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2639.msg15809.html#msg15809

[ssp3]

There used to be a complete CS3 Master Collection floating around. With kgens and stuff.    For someone, who paid for the software, but got dumped by Adobe, using generated numbers would be, imo, 100% acceptable.

DieHard, that's a dead link you've posted.

[GaryN]

Gary, we should post the "free" no activation needed CS2 special edition that adobe released, it seems they took it off their website... figures
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2639.msg15809.html#msg15809

Wow… I went to that link and found what I wrote at the time…… in 2015!

"Having accumulated over the years, various pre-CS versions of Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, etc., CS1, CS3 and CS5, I think Adobe's "problem" was that they are incapable of actually upgrading / adding enough actual features on their (what was it - every 18mo?) release schedule to justify the upgrade prices they were charging. They were already at the point of diminishing returns with CS1 (having bought up all of the disparate products and more or less consolidating their interfaces). It seemed like each subsequent release would add like 1, maybe 2 really cool features they could tout and just a bunch of cosmetic window dressing. Then they got to where the cool new features were just refinements of existing ones (content-aware object removal is pretty much just semi-automation of the existing patch tools, for example).

They were able to justify this because of the big jumps in CPU power that were happening at the same time. Having a new upgrade that utilized the latest, fastest systems available was / is the way of the world. Besides, what's another grand when you've just dropped 5 or 6k on hardware?

The refinements that speed up the workflow are great but they tend to have negative long-term effects in the real world.
The quicker you're able to deliver a job, the sooner everybody expects you to deliver the next one… and on and on

I think what they really gain by going to the subscription model is keeping the user base sane by not forcing them to install MAJOR upgrades over and over that then crash and burn for a thousand different reasons - many of which are completely beyond their control. That's good - BUT

Requiring 100% subscription only causes more and more actual capability to remain in the vendor's hands i.e. "the cloud" thereby forcing everyone to keep paying forever. That's just wrong.

That's my two cents. I feel much better now."


So…
1) I'm amazed it was like, 8 years ago !
2) I was clearly more coherent then than I am now.

The Adobe link now says that for CS 2,3 and 4 "The aging servers had to be retired"  No, I'm NOT kidding… that's what the billion-dollar company says: The servers got old and they couldn't maintain them…
Anyway, as I said, I have the free-running  CS6 Illustrator and Photoshop to open old files. Unfortunately, InDesign was a 32-bit app so it won't run past what… High Sierra? I forget…
Affinity is reasonably priced, it's easy to learn coming from Adobe workflow and you OWN it.

Now-useless junk pictured below. I remember thinking the multi-CD cases were cool at the time…

[IIO]

beside audio releated things i actually use photoshop in OS9 and prefer it much over later versions, and i also like to work with text there.

for after effects/u&i software/openGL/KI+ bigdata as well as for some audio and midi tasks OS9 can serve as a remote client, where you only pretend to do the work in a frontend while the actual work is done on a render server or however you want to call it.

the use for "internet" is limited to ftp and p2p protocols, as everything else stopped working 15 years ago.

[Jacques]

Thanks all. I’d written a long reply and then closed my browser when I had to go to a window without pressing ‘post’.

So I’ve got an ‘old’ 2012 Macbook Pro I use for e-mail and web, so am covered on that front. I just always find myself doing something productive then going to YT or a website for a ‘how to’ guide and 2 hours later I’ve been sucked in browsing rubbish. So I have no issues not being able to browse loads on an older machine.

I’d definitely be looking for Vectorworks 9/9.5 ish, ArchiCAD 5/6/7, Photoshop 7/CS and some classic games like Tomb Raider I/II, etc.

Is the QS suitable for beside the desk setup in terms of noise? I have a SGI O2 with 2 SCSI drives and with the small internal 4,000rpm fans it makes quite a noise.
I’m sure I’ll have more questions later.

Jacques

Gary - I’d go and hunt down a keygen or patch, you own that CS3 suite as far as I’m concerned.

[IIO]

not beeing able to browse the weg as an advantage - absolutely agree.

in addition to the OS´s limit for me web and music is 2 different chairs, too.

the QS is a bit less noisy than the MDD, but your issues with these harddrives should be fixed by using something different, HDs from around 2007 or newer, because those won´t make any noise anymore.

[GaryN]

Gary - I’d go and hunt down a keygen or patch, you own that CS3 suite as far as I’m concerned.

I own that software as far as anybody besides Adobe is concerned. Actually, I think they know it too… they just don't care. The reality however, is now that I'm getting really familiar with the Affinity stuff AND it's 64-bit AND it has up-to-date functions that the old CS3 doesn't, the issue has dropped far down my priority list. I'll keep an eye out for a keygen just on principle to get the still-installed CS3 working on my MDD though…

This reminds me (by the way) of the day long ago when I launched my very-well-used copy of Canvas 3.5… by far, the best draw app that existed for the Mac then. It was, I believe, the last version to be sold on floppies and boy, I had a bunch of them. I think by the time I counted all of the aux libraries and updates and stuff, there were probably 25 or 30 floppies in one of those old little floppy files thingies everybody had.

This day, I was greeted with the usual logo splash screen but it had a little notation at the bottom: "EXPIRED" and that was as far as it would go.
Huh? WTF does that mean… "EXPIRED"?  Well, that's exactly what it meant. The code had a built-in "drop dead" date which had never been revealed to anyone, anywhere at any time. Even better, Deneba, the original developer no longer existed! Calling the current owner, ACD Systems, was an exercise in futility.

Sometimes though, Occam's Razor provides the solution that is so simple you never think of it. A month later, in a flash of (what I like to believe was) brilliance, I cranked the calendar on my trusty G3 desktop back a few years and poof!… it launched! So I now have it still working in OS9 and I even have the last OS9 version, Canvas 8. I even wrote a QuicKeys macro that sets the calendar back, launches the app then resets the clock with one keystroke.

Take THAT you damn code monkeys!

[FBz]

Quicksilver note:

Choose the "B" mobo. (820-1342-B)

       

[Knezzen]

I use my 8600 and TiBook more than I use my M1 MacBook Air and it has always been like that. They fit my computing needs. I can SSH to my Linux machines using SSHeven, chat with my friends on Telegram, Skype, Discord and Facebook using Jabbernaut on Mac OS 9 and Classilla still works with TLS mosly everywhere using Crypto Ancienne. The only "real" need I have for my M1 MacBook is for heavier video editing (HD etc) and online banking, which Classilla wont do.

So I'm still all "Classic Mac". Writing this from Classilla on my TiBook

[cyberish]

which version of Jabbernaut do you actually use?
- Did this get any further somewhere? http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6265.0 ?

[ovalking]

Hi, does anybody still use their (non-intel) Macs for daily stuff like email, photos and any other non audio apps? ...

In short, yes. I use Mac OS 7/8/9 every day. I don't use those tools you mention, I'm more data oriented, Excel, Filemaker etc. GraphicConverter handles most of my photo needs.
Yahoo mail still works with Classilla, to an acceptable level.

[Knezzen]

which version of Jabbernaut do you actually use?
- Did this get any further somewhere? http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6265.0 ?

I'm using the "old" one (as in not compiled by me) and I fixed the issues with on the server side instead. Using it together with the IM gateway I'm running. More info here: http://macintoshgarden.org/forum/official-im-gateway-classic-macs