Diehard rambles on and also re-visits the Mac mini G4 and FW410 in 2023…

[DieHard]

Since next month is the 4 year anniversary of the closing of my retail repair store and moving 20 years of Apple parts into storage, I thought it may be a good time to revisit the old boxes and downsize yet again this weekend.  The years 2020 thru 2022 saw a that purge sent about 38 Early white Intel iMacs/G5s, 16 G5 towers, and at least 100+ low end PCs to the local ewaste scrap guy; and 2023 will sent more stuff to the dumpster.  All vintage parts were saved and eBay has been a good outlet for things like my NextGen CPUs that brought about $90 each just for gold value.  Also, many “Diehard Care Packages” have gone out to members over the past 2 years that get stuffed with a ton of stuff that was neither asked for or wanted (since I needed the room)… at any rate, I better stop rambling on and get to the topic because Gary and FBz kinda get bored when I make them read all this nonsense.

So finally, The goal has been reached; all three storage units are now empty and I no longer have to pay crazy monthly storage bills here in CA.  Each 10 X 20 Unit cost me $249 a month !   The last boxes were moved (2) months ago to my home garage which makes my wife real happy since there is still about 90+ Towers and 60+ (2 Foot X 3 Foot) commercial storage tubs, but I can at least sorts things out at my leisure now.

Early yesterday morning, I pulled out a QS and an MDD to test some MOTU stuff that I found.  If anyone needs any 1224 units, I have 8 to give away (maybe the best converters of all the early MOTU units, just PM me and pay box/shipping/or site donation cost).  I put the PCI-424 and 324 cards on eBay.  While I was testing I noticed that I was kinda getting irritated at the loudness of the MDD and even the QS,  The QS has modded fans, but still can get loud after 40 min of testing stuff.  After playing out in clubs and casinos for many years, I developed a type of tinnitus that really drives me crazy when I hear the G4 tower fans blowing so I gave my head a break and started to comb thru other storage tubs and boxes.

OK, I will get to the point… maybe… haha… In one box I found (3) M-Audio transit USB adapters and thought… “Hey, did you ever get the time to really put a G4 mini to the full testing as a DAW ?”  Nope, all those awesome developments happened during a real stressful time and I could not really put the mini to the test. So, I pulled out a G4 mini that that traveled all the way to FBz in the past and then came back to me in 2022… a 1.4 Ghz. with 1 GB RAM and a 256GB mSATA.  Rather than use the “Instant DAW” created 10 years ago and simply change the ROM and Video drivers, I decided as a type of therapy to load it all from scratch; like a noob, and see if it was really a viable unit in 2023.  Or at least, a unit that would be fun to mess with and test the last binder of 100+ OS9 CDs of DAW stuff that never made it to the site.

Ahhhh, music my ears, so quiet, so fast, so lovely is the mini under OS9.  I booted the mini with the famous “Ross Darker v9” version:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4365.0.html. 

It has been downloaded over 40,000 times and this baby is a work of art.  With many member contributions that made it all possible I just smile ear to ear when I see it in action.  This CD has single handedly made the old G4 Minis skyrocket up in price on fleaBay.  As a useless 1 GB machine in OSX, they were $20 to $40 before the OS 9 milestone… now they are $225 to $450 !   WTF ?!

Apple Mac mini PPC G4 1.42GHz - OS9 NATIVE - 1GB RAM- 80GB/ 23" CINEMA DISPLAY
eBay item number:155488886775 -> $417

Apple Mac mini PPC G4 1.25GHz - OS9 - 1GB RAM - 128GB HD - DVD-ROM/CD-RW - A1103
eBay item number:155511482807 -> $225

One issue with the v9 CD is… unfortunately the Drive setup is 1.9.2 (as FBz noted) so it saw my mSATA as 128 GB   I need not ask Mr Darker to make a v10, so I simply plugged in a FW drive and ran drive setup v2.1 to partition the 256GB into 2 equal parts, then ran the CD install which installed very quickly and we were off to the races !

I was amazed at the speed, definitely faster than the QS 933 and almost silent.  Installed Cubase VST 5/32 and the CD drive was all I heard with the mini itself super quiet.  I manually copied the ASIO drivers for the M-Audio Transit and and launched Cubase.  Easy, peasy, and I immediately got excited with hint nostalgia brewing, so I decided no more boxes today, let’s load up the mini.  I decided to do the basics before I went any further; installed…
USB Overdrive
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,901.0.html

Stuff-It 7.0.3
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1280.0.html

 “Action Go Mac” Menu System 2.0.3 
http://macos9lives.com/mac%20os%209%20lives_004.htm
I realized I should probably move a copy to the forum download boards, since it is by far my favorite

So, now time for plugins… I really wanted to test out some really cool developments, So I downloaded the “UVI Plugin Keygen” for Mac OS 9
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1550.0;attach=11840
Created by member Windoze, it actually worked perfectly and I installed and keygened all (6) Plugsound Sound module VSTs
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1097.0.html

I continued and installed at bunch more, Steinberg Mastering Edition, Spark plugins, PPG Wave… but alas, I ran out of time.  I am going to continue working on the mini this week and loading everything one at a time and testing.  So far, it has been an amazing little machine.  I hope to pull up some of the old Cubase audio projects that I have been using a Virtual machine (on the Mac Pro) to access.  The mini will let me export the stems with some of the original automation and plugins still intact.  I am sure I will miss the Powercore and UAD-1 plugins but the purpose of this endeavor is to see how far I can go with a silent G4.  I tried this back in the day with the Cube in 2000, but at 500 Mhz., it was not fast enough and was a laggy experience.

Lastly, I also broke out the mini to finally test the infamous M-Audio 410 nightmare issues (this should send Gary into a seizure):
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4179.msg29222.html#msg29222
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3126.msg40005.html#msg40005

So I bought a M-Audio 410 on eBay for $16 plus shipping and I will be testing the interface with the mini and Cubase VST 5 / 32.

I will be adding more information to this “Mac mini in 2023” topic as I load this baby with the kitchen sink.  Thanks for reading…

[Syntho]

We seem to cause inflation with posts like this

[smilesdavis]

Its a rough ride between the dumpster and mac minis for 200 dollars

[DieHard]

The M-Audio FW410 arrived in perfect cosmetic condition.  I loaded the software and all was going quite well... until I tried to get sound out of it

Here is what the main console looks like:



And the Mixer:



I was able to duplicate the headphone (no sound) issue here:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3126.msg40005.html#msg40005

I tried every possible setting in the mixer app (output section) and also in Cubase using the outputs available from the ASIO driver, still dead silent on the headphone jacks, even though the meters on the front of the unit were bouncing LEDs of activity.

I then tried a set of optical speakers and hooked them to the Optical out on the FW410.  In Cubase I selected "Digital as the output" and no sound, even though Cubase showed meters movment:



I then changed the the button on the SPDIF in the mixer app from "Main" to "Aux" and then bam !!!



Sound came out of the optical output; in fact, now sound was coming out of the optical output even when different analog outs were picked in Cubase, so there is a serious disconnect of settings in the mixer app and settings in the ASIO driver



The quality of the sound was exactly as described here
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4179.msg29222.html#msg29222

I experience some problems with a M-Audio Firewire 410

- The level controller knob has no effect on volume output.
- Output sound is awful: very low, saturated, seems out of phase.

I guess I just had to try it myself, and yes, it sucks ass under OS9... a wise friend (and member here) once said...

I've communicated repeatedly with people who have M-Audio FW devices that work fine in OSX and even in Windoze, but totally crap out in OS9. Why? Because M-Audio did a lousy job of writing, storing and documenting whatever OS9 drivers ever did actually work, then got bought and sold a few times and nobody there gives a shit. What does that say about them?

Again, my advice is stay away from all things M-Audio Firewire in OS9. It ain't worth the aggravation.

[DieHard]

So... I still would like to test the smallest FW interface (NOT USB), with or without MIDI, that is confirmed to work in OS9 and has a working ASIO driver.

Please let me know guys, so I can try it with the mini

[refinery]

Edirol/Roland FA-101 perhaps? they have os9 drivers on their site for it.

[DieHard]

Edirol/Roland FA-101 perhaps? they have os9 drivers on their site for it.

Yeah, I also thought of that one, but I was hoping for something close to the size of a "USB Transit" but FW

[teroyk]

The M-Audio FW410 arrived in perfect cosmetic condition.  I loaded the software and all was going quite well... until I tried to get sound out of it
Here is what the main console looks like:

Hmm..look firmware and bootloader version...is that FW410 used with Windows machine?

[teroyk]

Yeah, I also thought of that one, but I was hoping for something close to the size of a "USB Transit" but FW

I think M-Audio Firewire Solo is smallest FW-audiodevice.
Has anybody tested it with any M-Audo Firewire-device OS9 drivers..on OSX side one driver work with all M-audio FW-devices.

[DieHard]

M-Audio Firewire Solo...

Box says minimum is OS X 10.2.8

[teroyk]

M-Audio Firewire Solo...
Box says minimum is OS X 10.2.8

So then M-audio FireWire Audiophile might be smallest for MacOS9.

[RossDarker]

DieHard, Drive Setup 2.1 is indeed on the v9 CD, in the CD's Application folder.
I left it there in case it had some advantages over 1.9.2's ability to format FireWire drives, and it seems there are some.

But yes, currently 1.9.2 launches by default.

[DieHard]

DieHard, Drive Setup 2.1 is indeed on the v9 CD, in the CD's Application folder.
I left it there in case it had some advantages over 1.9.2's ability to format FireWire drives, and it seems there are some.

But yes, currently 1.9.2 launches by default.

From the man himself... OMG, good to know

[DieHard]

This is an interesting Video...Apparently the 410 is also a nightmare El thru High Sierra, If this was my daily interface, I would hang myself from the rafters, lol

Hilarious at 6:38 Seconds, he says this in a French accent...

At this point I know you are getting tied of this fucking shit, but don't give up...

[youtube]VwdepHYq1gg[/youtube]

[GaryN]

bedebedebedebdebedebedebedebdebedebedebedebdebedebedebedebdebedebedebedebdebedebedebedebdebedebedebedebde……………

[zefrenchtoon]

Hilarious at 6:38 Seconds, he says this in a French accent...

This is not French accent

This guy is from Brasil (its name is written at the end of the video and we can find him on LinkedIn)


Your quest is very interesting to me because I was thinking about buying a FA-101 to get audio/midi interface without using one of the few USB port on my Mini. 

[teroyk]

Your quest is very interesting to me because I was thinking about buying a FA-101 to get audio/midi interface without using one of the few USB port on my Mini. 

Firewire is always better than USB. More bandwidth and more exact timing.
I think Diehard's FW410 is f*cked up with firmware update made by some modern driver. I have same problem and bought my FW410 from Win7 PC user.
So I think we have learn how to downgrade FW410 firmware.

[samtheprogram]

Kismet; I just picked up a Mac mini G4 for similar reasons, among usage of other software and coding fun, and spent the majority of Saturday setting it up, spending time in Photoshop and some old games, and getting graphical acceleration working through DVI->HDMI. Typing on it right now under Classilla.

An aside on the DVI->HDMI... this required the patched ROM by ELN, original January drivers followed by the patched drivers by DarthnVader, and finally the experiemental RockHopper 2 driver posted by whoisthisguy -- seems like every other combination I tried either got garbled graphics at anything above 1280x1024 (without the RockHopper2 extension), or 1080p without graphical acceleration (with just the RockHopper 2 driver before I went through applying the extension in the above order). It's my understanding if I went to VGA/analog I wouldn't have had as much trouble.

Unfortunately my FW400 audio interface isn't supported under OS 9 (MBox Pro -- far too new). I'm also looking to pick one up and really didn't want to get the Transmit since it'll use a precious USB port, and am avoiding a USB hub based on advice I think I saw from DieHard while browsing over the weekend.

I wouldn't mind a larger FA-101, but I'm wondering if there's a better option I could find with MIDI support. (EDIT: going to look through the thread here http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,362.msg684.html#msg684 but any "input" would be appreciated )

Also, I've installed Ableton 2 (for now / first tests), but am unable to start the audio engine without a crash. I'm guessing this has to do with the poor audio driver support on this device (i.e. unable to change volume levels). Would having an audio interface fix this?

[teroyk]

I tried either got garbled graphics at anything above 1280x1024 (without the RockHopper2 extension), or 1080p without graphical acceleration (with just the RockHopper 2 driver before I went through applying the extension in the above order). It's my understanding if I went to VGA/analog I wouldn't have had as much trouble.

I wouldn't mind a larger FA-101, but I'm wondering if there's a better option I could find with MIDI support. (EDIT: going to look through the thread here http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,362.msg684.html#msg684 but any "input" would be appreciated )

Did you try drop number of colors to get 1080p?

If size not matter and you have money the Tascam FW1884 has 4 in and out for MIDI and high quality audio I/O with enough connectors for normal use and faders for use with Logic.

[teroyk]

This is an interesting Video...Apparently the 410 is also a nightmare El thru High Sierra, If this was my daily interface, I would hang myself from the rafters, lol

Have you machine that boots to OSX 10.1.5 (it is lowest officially "supported" OSX version for FW410), does it work with it? Does it show firmware version in info screen?
I try collect info to know more about this firmware problem with MacOS9.
And don't put it to OSX10.6 Mac, if it has latest M-Audio Firewire driver (for any M-Audio device) it updates firmware version to 2007 without asking.