Author Topic: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs  (Read 751 times)

Offline ObiWanCanOweMe

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« on: March 31, 2023, 09:30:50 AM »
So I've got two MDD Power Macs:

1. Apple Power Macintosh G4 1.0 DP (MDD) - https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.0_dp_mdd.html
2. Apple Power Macintosh G4 1.0 (FW 800) - https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.0_mdd.html

MDD #1 can boot OS 9 natively and #2 can only boot OS 9 using MacOS9Lives.
Is it possible to swap the CPUs so that the DP goes in #2 and the SP goes in #1? I'd like the OS 9 machine to have a SP and the OS X machine to have DPs

Thanks!

Offline FBz

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 628
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 152
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2023, 02:19:55 PM »
You might want to check the bus speed of both machines to determine if they’re 133 or 167 MHz and if they’re the same - that’s a nod to test it for certain. EveryMac.com notes that the 1.0 FW 800 machine has 133 MHz, while it also notes the DP 1.0 GHz DP machine as having a bus speed of 167 Mhz. Both machines have the 300 pin daughtercard mounted CPUs.

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.0_mdd.html

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.0_dp_mdd.html

There is possibly a resistor than can be removed from the FW 800 machine’s mobo (if it’s throttled to 133 MHz) that might increase its’ bus speed to 167 MHz. But first I would determine if the swap works well for both, before I’d remove that resistor.

I have moved faster 1.42 GHz DP FW800 CPUs into “lesser” FW 400 machines with tested success - but they were both 167 MHz mobos (and in some cases, 133 MHz bus speed mobos with the aforementioned single resistor removed). So I can personally attest to “backwards compatibility”. It’s the “forward move” of your dual CPU that I have not personally tested. But I’m guessing that it will work. (That guessing always makes one feel more confident.)

If it boots, then check “About This Mac” / More Info to see what bus speed the FW800 machine reports afterwards. (Again as first suggested here, check this before any CPU moves.) After the moves, and (hopefully) successful subsequent boots… check again to see if you may want to snip that resistor as the CPU may report slightly less than 1.0 GHz?

Resistor and 1.42 CPU swap… thread: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6285.0.html

And P.S.  You may need to reset the PMU(s) after the swaps & ZAP the PRAM on both machines. ;)

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1475
  • active member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2023, 02:42:39 PM »
No, this is not confusing at all…
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 02:30:08 PM by GaryN »

Offline ObiWanCanOweMe

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2023, 04:11:47 PM »
Thank you VERY much for the response and suggestions. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for and I did not find it at all confusing.
I've been reading a lot of forum posts regarding CPU upgrades so this jives with what I've seen. It is much nicer to get a summary from a single source though  :)
I'll check the bus speeds and report back with my progress.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 04:23:30 PM by ObiWanCanOweMe »

Offline ObiWanCanOweMe

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2023, 01:41:04 PM »
So the DP is 167 MHz and the SP is 133 MHz. I'm going to try the swap. Are there any guides or directions you'd suggest I follow for the actual process of removing and remounting the CPUs? I've been building PCs for years but never done anything like this on a Mac.

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1475
  • active member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2023, 02:25:56 PM »
So the DP is 167 MHz and the SP is 133 MHz. I'm going to try the swap. Are there any guides or directions you'd suggest I follow for the actual process of removing and remounting the CPUs? I've been building PCs for years but never done anything like this on a Mac.
You can swap the CPU's with one hand ties behind your back. A few screws and the heatsink comes right off. Pull up on the rear edge of the CPU board and it disengages from the million-connection socket then it's out from under the catches in front.
#1 rule is make certain you clean the old heat compound off and replace it with the best Arctic Silver grade stuff you can find.

That said, you'll need to remove R676 from the underside of the logic board of MDD #2 and install it in the same location on #1.
Note that you can simply blink and that damn tiny SMD will simply vanish. Be very careful with it. Personally, I'm pretty sure it's just a jumper and it's only in SMD form so it could be installed by machine but hey…

Offline ObiWanCanOweMe

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2023, 07:20:36 AM »
I swapped the CPU's (and re-pasted) and reset the PMU but neither machine boots. When I press the power button the light comes on for < 1 second and then goes off. No fans or anything else spinning up.

Offline FBz

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 628
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 152
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2023, 09:56:15 AM »
BOTH machines exhibit this exact same behavior after swapping?

Not even a slight, momentary, attempted spin-up of any fan?
(Door open to view this.)

Are you depressing the power button for more than just an instant?

Battery still with acceptable range voltage present?

CPUs properly seated?

NOW, what exact Model numbers are these two machines?
Like… M8570, M9145 OR M9309... and with number / type of corresponding FW ports?
(i.e. FW400 and / or FW800) for each model number.

AND… what Apple number is on your CPU daughter cards?
Pictured here is a 1 GHz SP CPU from a FW400 MDD.
(Number within green rectangle.)



I know, a PITA to remove heatsinks and repaste.
But, if necessary…

(Don’t seem to have a 1 GHz DP CPU upon my first search here.)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2023, 10:10:46 AM by FBz »

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1475
  • active member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2023, 01:40:47 PM »
Best bet that would cause this on BOTH machines simultaneously are the PMU's.

Follow the steps in this link EXACTLY beginning at "reset the PMU…

Holla back

Offline ObiWanCanOweMe

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Swapping CPUs Between Two MDDs
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2023, 10:34:50 AM »
Not seeing a link?  :)

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1475
  • active member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal