Noob building DAW

[DieHard]

Chris, good research but misleading... let's clarify this...

As I stated:

Like Gary said, No; the S/PDIF cannot be used to Sync the device to anything, it can transfer digital audio (stereo only) to and from other devices, since the S/PDIF signal combines both the clock and audio info in the same signal, no other cables (like Word Clock) are needed; important to note that this has to be done in real time and...

What you stated:

Not True from what ive researched.

"The SPDIF stream carries data AND clock timing" https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/spdif-code.383279/
which is why its neccessary to link two PCI audio multi-cards using a SPDIF cable to get them to sync up and act as one interface in ableton live on os9

To clarify, SPDIF via Toslink or RCA connector will send/receive a stream of digital audio with clock info meaning your audio can be transferred (and sound great) without the need to use "Wordclock" that is needed typically to get 2 audio devices locked in "sync"; but we are using the term "sync" loosely.

As Gary correctly stated, S/PDIF CANNOT be used as a sync method to a DAW meaning that you CANNOT control the transport at all, no Start, Stop, arm record, play... yada, yada yada.  So basically all that great MMC / MTC MIDI stuff that locks the 2 devices is NOT possible via the S/PDIF... As noted on your video, "Roland VS880ex as Control Surface/Audio i/o for Logic 8 (or any DAW with midi/mmc)" Now That's what we are talking about when we mean "syncing to your DAW"

In fact, unless you hate the D/A converters or A/D of one device, then the S/PDIF is really not all that useful  S/PDIF is a nice way to transfer digital audio without re-converting.   Again, this has to be done in real time, there is no "S/PDIF Dump" mode that will transfer the whole track or file, so you might as well just hit "play" on the roland (since it has nice D/A) and then hit "record" in your DAW and use the A/D of your interface, this way you can adjust volume and EQ (you can't adjust anything via S/PDIF)

Lastly, where S/PDIF really shines with macs.. there are many Intel macs with S/PDIF and they have a secret bonus, many old Mac pros, macbooks, and Intel imacs have SPDIF built in.  It is a little known fact that the 1/8" analog audio output on many imacs also spits out optical S/PDIF out of the same jack !
https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/about-audio-ports-cpmh0052/mac

So, the secret bonus is that you can use pre-amps with digital out or even whole audio interfaces (like Mindprint TRIO S/PDIF) and not even have to load drivers !   So these devices can work NO MATTER what OS or DAW and no software for the device is needed, just set the mac system preferences to "optical"

Here is the cable needed for macbook/imac:
https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-TOSLINK-Optical-Digital-Audio/dp/B00GZQWM54

For Mac Pro:
https://www.amazon.com/Syncwire-Digital-Gold-Plated-Compatible-Playstation/dp/B07S5XKHC6

[darthnVader]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfqogRxMKGI[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfqogRxMKGI
Roland VS880ex as Control Surface/Audio i/o for Logic 8 (or any DAW with midi/mmc)

But how the hell did he do it MCC?

Can this also be done for the 1680 or the 880ex supports something other than ADAT the 1680 doesn't to enable all the fader controls in LP8's mixer?

[darthnVader]

Ok, I found a video that explains some of it............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A549y9TDnls

[darthnVader]

So far I figured out how to do just about everything the Roland can do syncing to LP8, but I can't get any output of a track over the Coaxial digital output.

I'm sure I'm just not setting it up right to output from the Roland, but the manual is wonderfully unhelpful.

I really need to be able to register at VS-Planet but I get no reply to emailing them about the broken registration issue.

Does anyone know how to output a track to the Dig1? I have set it to the master track in the menu via the manual but still no signal getting to the input on the AudioPhile?

[ssp3]

You ask questions here that could be answered by reading the manual.
"DIGITAL OUT Connectors", p.176.
At first glimpse, there's no direct track out to SPDIF. You probably have to set the track(s) to one of the AUXes first and then assign it to SPDIF. Or just solo the track, if SPDIF is set to Master or Monitor.

[smilesdavis]

Forums exist because noone ever reads the manual

[IIO]

i dont read manuals either and i hope nobody interpreted my above advice as "RTFM" in the direction of the threadstarter - because you will never hear that from me.

rather i give false advise because also dont read it.^^

[daddyjeff]

I bid on a AVID MBOX 3 PRO and I'm likely to win it, but I didn't notice it only has 4 inputs and two of those a Mic inputs.

However it does have the breakout cable for SPDIF/MIDI that I was having an issue finding.

Likely I'l buy the Avid MBox Pro 8x8 and use the breakout cable with that.

It's just a used item but really for $50 it should be just as good with Logic or GB as the VS system is now as a stand-a-lone.

Pro Tools cheats a lot, it seems like it has nothing, but then it has native tools like strip silence, which is used to remove audio silences or make random audio slices, I use this a lot to experiment even with audio that does not have silences just to see what happens and experiment with it.

Mbox shares the same features as a Digi001 is the same thing, but it works via usb and does not have as many physical channels as Digi001, it was really great to use with an ibook G4 a very portable solution with great sound quality.

But keep in mind that with the professional tools you get Strip Silence, which is a great tool, to take a track from a kick drum and turn those kick drums into clips or individual audio elements, same for old magazine CDs with samples or whatever similar in vinyl for hiphop djs where the sound cuts come separately with breaks and sound effects voices and similar things, also to record an LP in 2 audio tracks and extract the cuts from A side B side, cassette tapes or whatever is difficult to extract digitally.

I record all these things on one track and then remove the silences to get the separate sounds to keep in a folder.

I think Cubase and Logic didn't have anything similar, and I don't think Ableton Live either.

Strip Silence saves a lot of time and work in a very simple way when you want to make arrangements with the recorded audio.

info: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/using-pro-tools-strip-silence-function

[IIO]

cubase can do something very similar since MacOS9.

it also can do the reverse and merge files on the same track.

but the handling of all this is quite different between PT and cubase/nuendo. in PT track #7 and channel #7 is the same. lots of pros and cons about this.

PT was a bit easier to grasp when somebody came from tape machines and inline mixers. the other major DAWs all had a life as MIDI sequencer versions before and were the next logical step from those.

[teroyk]

Lastly, where S/PDIF really shines with macs.. there are many Intel macs with S/PDIF and they have a secret bonus, many old Mac pros, macbooks, and Intel imacs have SPDIF built in.  It is a little known fact that the 1/8" analog audio output on many imacs also spits out optical S/PDIF out of the same jack !

Not have to be intel mac. The last Powerbook G4 (late 2005) has that feature, but is there any another Powerbook (early 2005?) models with that feature?
And all iMac G5 models has it with audio out. And all Powermac G5 models has SPDIF, some of them has separete optical connectors.
How about the last Macmini G4 1.5 Ghz?

[DieHard]

How about the last Macmini G4 1.5 Ghz?

I don't think it would have S/PDIF out built in...

For iMacs, and macbooks I definitely remember optical in/out available in many years and many models (Intel); from 2009 to about 2015 I setup many systems for people using these ports for simple pro recording setups, basically just plug in and record or playback and no drivers needed; in 2016 the new macbook pros dropped the S/PDIFF and the iMacs in 2017.  Many in film also used these optical ports for easy surround sound setups.  Apple said nobody used it, but I can tell you a lot of people were really upset...

Her is what Eric Persing of Spectrasonics , one of the leading developers of pro virtual instruments in the audio world, and not exactly prone to tantrums, posted on his FB...

"APPLE HAS COMPLETELY LOST IT. I am absolutely FURIOUS about this news! This is literally a feature that our entire team at Spectrasonics utilizes EVERY DAY, dozens of times a day! The removal of optical out is INSANE! In our world of audio, this is a feature that made MacBook Pros truly a mobile/professional audio machine! Native core audio with simple digital audio output is one of the essential reasons that these laptops have always been the best for audio and music. NOW THEY'VE TAKEN IT AWAY SO THEY SAVE A PENNY!
I hate you apple! (Never thought I'd every say that)"

Phil Shiller...

"Is it inconsistent to keep the 3.5mm headphone jack as it’s no longer on the latest iPhone?
Not at all. These are pro machines. If it was just about headphones then it doesn’t need to be there, we believe that wireless is a great solution for headphones. But many users have setups with studio monitors, amps, and other pro audio gear that do not have wireless solutions and need the 3.5mm jack."

[robespierre]

I think that the optical "mini TOSLINK" output was on the iMac G5 and the Dual Layer SuperDrive PowerBook G4 (the latest 15" and 17" Supreme models from October 2005). The G4 Minis apparently don't have it.

[teroyk]

How about the last Macmini G4 1.5 Ghz?

I don't think it would have S/PDIF out built in...
For iMacs, and macbooks I definitely remember optical in/out available in many years and many models (Intel); from 2009 to about 2015

Many models (PPC) from 2003 to 2006 has it. And even Macmini Intel 1.5Ghz (Core Solo) from 2006 has it, so that is why I asked.
I tested Macmini G4 1.25Ghz, it does not have S/PDIF out built in (or at least not red light when I pushed adapter to headphone port).

[DieHard]

Many models (PPC) from 2003 to 2006 has it. And even Macmini Intel 1.5Ghz (Core Solo) from 2006 has it, so that is why I asked.
I tested Macmini G4 1.25Ghz, it does not have S/PDIF out built in (or at least not red light when I pushed adapter to headphone port).

Thanks for that info !  Maybe we should start a list... although, I think the "everymac" site probably already tells us on each specific model if it has optical.  On the everymac site, If you click the "ports" tab on your model and then click the actual ports you get...
Sound In:

Combined "audio line in/optical digital audio input (minijack)

Sound Out:

Single shared "headphone/optical digital audio output (minijack)"

So, for a quick DAW, get a S/PDIF mac and a S/PDIF TRIO...
1) No drivers
2) Zero latency
3) Class "A" Mic Pre (with hardware compression)
4) Hughes & Kettner guitar input
5) Dual Headphone outs with talkback
6) Line inputs
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/mindprint-trio

Leave it to the Germans, the kings of DAWs !

Mindprint cram mic and line channel strips, monitor control, and talkback into a single desktop unit.
Mindprint's Trio is designed to meet the specific needs of the desktop audio market and comprises a very practical combination of a channel strip and a monitor-control section, complete with headphone amp and talkback facilities. Although it doesn't include a computer audio interface as such, it does have optical S/PDIF inputs and outputs, so it could be used with the new Apple Mac G5 computers without the need to buy a separate audio interface. The voice-channel part of the package is based around a very respectable Class-A mic/instrument preamp with switchable 48V phantom power, compressor, and equaliser, but there's also a separate stereo line input with its own EQ that can be mixed with the mic input, as well as an auxiliary monitor input that could be used as a two-track return. Mindprint have taken part of the Trio's compressor design from their rather more costly DTC dual recording channel, and it provides programme-dependent adjustment of the time constants so that only a single knob is needed to adjust the processing. Furthermore, the mic channel's EQ is tailored specifically to vocals so you get the job done with fewer distracting controls.

[teroyk]

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/mindprint-trio

With that link I noticed another interesting Mindprint device that support Mac OS 9 with DI-Mod USB:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/mindprint-envoice-mkii

[DieHard]

Yeah, I own 2 of those also (Mindprint Envoice) , they are great for recording vocals or guitar w/real tube saturation as a rack channel strip, I do not have the DI S/PDIF.  They can obviously be used with any OS or DAW

[rvense]

Interesting device... looks like the Mac OS 9 drivers are lost, though. Not here, not the Garden, not Archive.org...

[DieHard]

Interesting device... looks like the Mac OS 9 drivers are lost, though. Not here, not the Garden, not Archive.org...

There are no drivers needed, it is a Pre-amp strip, if you add the "Digital I/O option" it gets connected to the Optical of your audio interface or directly to a mac with optical.  I don't have that option, so I just use the analog out.

I cleaned off the dust and have decided to use one for guitar and one for vocals over the last year; they really warm up the digital world and I like to track with some subtle EQ and compression.  The output of each mindprint envoice is going to an input on my newest interface... a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 firewire.  I swore I would never use a Focusrite interface ever... but I am enjoying them over my Echo Audiofire 12 since I like having the ability to add some gain to some of my external MIDI gear and the pres on the saffire actually sound better than I thought they would and the MixControl software can send zero latency mixies for monitoring.

[IIO]

no ASIO drivers, no ASIO support. but i think when you buy a device the chance is high that the seller still has the CD.

[IIO]

propagamma/ploytec ASIO for OS9 was also sold separately.

but google is quiet about this...