Author Topic: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac  (Read 2041 times)

Offline ~Coxy

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Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« on: May 10, 2022, 11:49:12 PM »
Hi all,
I have the G4/1.25 (USB 2.0) eMac, which is actually the 1.0GHz Education model. I would like to get OS 9 booting on this machine.
I have downloaded "Mac OS 9.2.2 For Previously Unsupported G4s (G4s that shipped OS X Boot Only) - ISO CD Image" and burnt it to a CD.

Attempt A:
Boot holding down Option - can see OS X on the internal hard disk
Insert CD, press refresh - can now see MacOS9Lives CD as well
Select CD and press right arrow - eMac turns off.

Attempt B:
Boot holding down C - just stays on Grey screen. After a minute or so, the CD stops spinning.

Does anyone have any ideas for what to try next? Thanks

Offline FBz

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Offline ~Coxy

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2022, 07:06:44 PM »
Thanks for that link.

I have partitioned the eMac and installed Mac OS 9 Lives on the first partition and 10.3 on the second partition.
I booted into 10.3 and copied over the tbxi-enabler and the ATI,Merlin patches, and removed the existing Mac OS ROM.
When I boot with option I can see the OS 9 partition and boot from it.

However, every time I boot from it I get a freeze at the end of the extensions march.
If I boot without extensions I get the same freeze at the end of "Starting Up..."

Offline FBz

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2022, 08:24:45 PM »
Did you follow the steps exactly as outlined in that link?

You might try… command+option+esc when it freezes.

AND are you using an Apple brand mouse & keyboard?

No other peripherals connected during the attempted boot, networked, etc.?
(No USB sticks, external hard drives, etc.?)

Offline ~Coxy

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2022, 08:43:55 PM »
Did you follow the steps exactly as outlined in that link?

Yes

You might try… command+option+esc when it freezes.

No luck getting into the debugger.

AND are you using an Apple brand mouse & keyboard?

Yes

No other peripherals connected during the attempted boot, networked, etc.?

I did have the network in, but just pulled it out and no change either.

Offline FBz

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Re: Help OS 9 / eMac
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2022, 04:22:03 AM »
With many “new” OS installs on a variety of machines, they will hang / freeze upon boot… as they often attempt to load Airport, some video drivers and other drivers (along with the initial setup of what the installer considers “new” machines. The Command+Option+ Esc key combo is an effort to “Force Quit” these possible overriding actions that may or may not prevent a complete boot w/o a freeze. So, when you go through another attempted boot, try that keystroke combo again to see if any such bothersome thing might be hanging the machine?

Anything listed other than “Finder” - might just be your problem as the machine is attempting to load something that it cannot… thus, the freeze. (You can also try the Command + period to “stop” the attempted load of any such dastardly app, extension, etc.)



If none of the above helps… “Option Boot” again and immediately after the selection of OS 9 - try holding down the shift key to then boot the machine with all extensions off. If it then boots completely without a hang / freeze… you may then begin the sleuth work of figuring out which extension or other possible conflict might be preventing a complete and successful boot.


“I have the G4/1.25 (USB 2.0) eMac, which is actually the 1.0GHz Education model.”


So which is it? The 1.25 GHz or the 1.0 GHz?

https://everymac.com/ultimate-mac-comparison-chart/?compare=all-powerpc-macs&highlight=0&prod1=eMac004&prod2=eMac005&prod3=eMac006

Offline ~Coxy

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2022, 05:46:17 AM »
Sorry, I don't think my post was clear.
The freeze is when booting OS 9. Booting OS X works fine and Classic (from the same system folder/partition that I try to boot from) works too.
I've taken some photos to show the point, with normal boot and with extensions disabled: https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d42Ljn_myiPFzAMmVGYw3wQA

The CPU is the oddball 1.0 GHz model. I bring up the 1.25GHz because this eMac is USB 2.0, not USB 1.1.

Offline FBz

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Re: Help OS 9 / eMac
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2022, 09:00:35 AM »
So there were (2) different 1.0 GHz eMacs?

One with USB 1.1 and a PowerPC 7445 processor… and another one (a “hybrid”?) with USB 2.0 (and which processor)?
The 1.25 GHz eMac (USB 2.0) has the 7447a processor with a System Bus Speed of 167 MHz and can boot the unsupported OS 9.2 installation - while the (standard?) 1.0 GHz has a Bus Speed of 133 MHz.

And I don’t know if it works the same as the 1.25 GHz… when it comes to the “unsupported approach”.

Anyone better acquainted with this scenario? Anyone running a bootable, standalone version of 9.2 on the same (possibly) “hybrid” 1.0 GHz eMac?
With USB 2.0 - are you certain that it is a 1.0 GHz eMac… OR that it actually has USB 2.0?

*Also (upon a closer reading) from EveryMac.com: *Please note that there also is a 1.0 GHz variant of this model that was released exclusively to education. (Noted under 1.25 GHz eMac specs.) Which I suppose may mean that it also might have the 7447a processor?

Check your processor, bus speed and graphics specifics. Therein may lie the proverbial rub... here. ;)

Offline ~Coxy

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2022, 04:39:57 PM »
Quote
Hardware:
  Machine Model:   eMac
  CPU Type:   PowerPC G4  (1.1)
  Number Of CPUs:   1
  CPU Speed:   1 GHz
  L2 Cache (per CPU):   512 KB
  Memory:   512 MB
  Bus Speed:   167 MHz
  Boot ROM Version:   4.8.2f1
  Serial Number:   YM422KFXQGQ
PCI/AGP Cards:
ATY,RV280:

  Type:   display
  Bus:   AGP
  VRAM (Total):   32 MB
  Vendor:   ATI (0x1002)
  Device ID:   0x5962
  Revision ID:   0x0001
  ROM Revision:   113-xxxxx-102
USB:

USB High-Speed Bus:

  Vendor Name:   Apple Computer, Inc.
  Product ID:   32774 ($8006)
  Speed:   Up to 480 Mb/sec
  Bus Power (mA):   500

I believe the "Unsupported G4" Mac OS 9 install is supposed to work on 7447a... inasmuch as any of this is "supposed" to work of course.

Offline FBz

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2022, 05:50:21 PM »
Okay… the last mention of a 1.0 GHz eMac and the unsupported install was in this thread: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5773.msg43007.html#msg43007 And no mention as to whether or not it ever was finally capable of booting. Of course, yours may be that “other” 1.0 GHz eMac model.

Last eMac I tried to help out with (Lark456) was a 1.25 GHz and it basically came down to correctly typing in Open Firmware. And it worked.

Now, there are various mentions of Combo Drive versus Superdrive 1.0 GHz eMacs …with the Combo Drive being the preferred model.

“It looks like the 1Ghz eMac with the Combo drive supports native boot of OS 9, whereas the 1Ghz eMac with the Superdrive only supports Classic Mode.” - darthnVader

“So let me see if I understand this: Apple produced an eMac model for one year. It originally was capable of booting OS9. Somewhere in the middle of that time they made a minor change, adding a Superdrive. No other changes… BUT suddenly it wouldn't boot OS9 anymore.” - GaryN

Did you pitch the Multiprocessing folder?
And nothing else is running or trying to load (freezing the final boot process) when you tried the CMD+Opt+Esc or the Cmd+ period keystrokes?

You may also want to (re)read through MacTron’s 1.25 GHz eMac thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4361.0.html

Maybe you’ll be the one to eventually solve this with the 1.0 GHz.
I’m stumped. ;)

Good luck.

Offline joeykork

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2022, 12:47:14 PM »
I have the same exact issue on my 1.25Ghz USB2.0 combo drive.
Prog bar freezes at the end, after the reboot into the ASR-installed OS9.
Two other people said the same on the other OS9-for-eMac thread.



Offline joeykork

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2022, 07:35:05 PM »
I figured it out. I will post an updated set of instructions on the older OS9 for emac/1.25ghz thread in this area.

If you're as far as getting to the process bar sticking at 99%, the solution is to boot back into the OS9 installer image (or OS X) and remove "System Folder\Extensions\Multiprocessing" directory. This step was not described in _exact_ detail!

Its kinda annoying that the "universal" image needs 3 hand-modifications done to boot it on eMac and another 4 done onto to its resulting install....

there ought to be either a dedicated 9.2.2 iso+asr-image for eMac or else some bundled scripting in the image that just "makes things work" for emacs, but better manual instructions will just have to do.

either way, meticulous reading of forum posts shouldn't remain the only way that this incredible community product is to be made usable...

Offline DieHard

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2022, 11:44:40 PM »
Quote
I figured it out. I will post an updated set of instructions on the older OS9 for emac/1.25ghz thread in this area.

That sounds great, I am sure others can benefit from a better roadmap for the eMac install

Quote
If you're as far as getting to the process bar sticking at 99%, the solution is to boot back into the OS9 installer image (or OS X) and remove "System Folder\Extensions\Multiprocessing" directory. This step was not described in _exact_ detail!

You kinda sound annoyed, maybe some thanks to Mactron and other eMac enthusiasts is in order.  It's an unsupported machine and the original thread has about a 35K read, the mac mini thread has 355K views, so it's a numbers game... if less people are seeking to load OS9 on an eMac, less people will contribute to the best set of detailed instructions.  I still think it is great that MacTron got the ball rolling back in 2018 for the eMac.

Quote
Its kinda annoying that the "universal" image needs 3 hand-modifications done to boot it on eMac and another 4 done onto to its resulting install....

Nothing universal when running OS 9 on unsupported machines, but everyone tries their best to share what they have learned.  We can't always hand out fish, but sometimes we can teach one how to fish.

Quote
there ought to be either a dedicated 9.2.2 iso+asr-image for eMac or else some bundled scripting in the image that just "makes things work" for emacs, but better manual instructions will just have to do.

Yes, I agree, the ASR image creation info is here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1839.0.html

I don't know if your up for the task, but we would all appreciate the time and effort put in by anyone that will create a bootable image with injected emac ROM and ASR install for eMacs :)

Quote
either way, meticulous reading of forum posts shouldn't remain the only way that this incredible community product is to be made usable...
We agree here
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 01:52:38 PM by DieHard »

Offline joeykork

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2022, 09:11:32 PM »
I'm a nut about "reproduceability" so its merely annoyance that I didn't really understand all that has been done so far.
I have found the various threads with EDD & MacTron & DarthNVader unblocking each little thing, pretty incredible!

I am new to macOS < 10, but after spending some time in OS9 it reminds me of DOS & Win95, one has to guard the System folder for dear life!

I'm used to the OSX flavor of AppleScript but will get around to that "fixup" script, in the meantime I've cross-posted the manual fix in the "main" eMac thread

Latest item of navel gazing is how to get that audio driver (im)properly nudged to fully power both channels.
I've read that USB DACs work fine (one's on the way), but it'd be nice to get the tinny builtin speakers on these later models working.


Offline DieHard

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Re: Help with booting OS 9 on unsupported eMac
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2022, 08:57:52 AM »
Quote
I'm a nut about "reproduceability" so its merely annoyance that I didn't really understand all that has been done so far.
I have found the various threads with EDD & MacTron & DarthNVader unblocking each little thing, pretty incredible!

Yeah, it's definitely challenging to go thru all the posts.  Some of out core members have been re-engineering Mac OS 9 for over 10 years on this site.  Not only have they expanded the list machines that can boot to OS 9, but there have been advances in video capability, storage technologies, and let's not forget we broke the RAM barrier (we gained 128MB), which may not "seem" like a lot, but man it was exciting:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2860.msg27650.html#msg27650   

 


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