Author Topic: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080  (Read 2845 times)

Offline tunedbytad

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Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« on: June 20, 2022, 06:46:55 PM »
My goal is to get Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080

* I can not get the GeForce 4 ti 4600 to do it. (dvi/vga or dvi/adc versions)

Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080... How is it done?

Willing to pay good money to sponsor a (uplifting our OS9 community) driver / firmware that enables the available Dual DVI GeForce 6800 AGP 8x to be used

Hi, My name is Tad
I have a PMG4 problem
aka tunedbytad aka ProTools4 aka NotoriouSS

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2022, 05:31:42 AM »

when i am not mistaken, the dual link cards use 2560x800 (for the frist generation 30" monitors) - 2560x1080 is far too much for DVI.

also, these 30" monitors are DVI-D only (i believe every DVI dual link connection is), which is why it cant work using ADB or VGA for one of the connections.

the third problem is that the connection usually only works when the graphic cards accepts the connection the monitor suggests: after it is found, it will tell your GPU that it requires dual link, and then a GF 4 mostly likely will simply answer "sorry, not in stock, try elsewhere".
 
 
while the GF6 will work to connect a 30" monitor, it will do that without (any) acceleration. and this is no fun unless you really only do protools TDM or display images in a store window.



however, you will be limited to 1 of them because there are no compatible PCI GPUs. in other words: it wont raise your pixel count above the use of WUXGA sized monitors (which are not limited only 2 monitors.)


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Offline tunedbytad

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2022, 10:37:52 AM »
IIO

I ONLY DO PROTOOLS 5.1.3 TDM MIX PLUS Expansion x7

For me the point of OS9 and PPC G4 MDD is driving my "all in" / "Maxed out" 2002ish era ProTools Rig

no games
no 3d
no cad
not even word / text / or spread sheet

Driving a:
-LG 32 wide Screen DVI Monitor
-50" Viso HDMI TV


I am getting 2560 x 1080 out of the LG 32 Widescreen...???



Hi, My name is Tad
I have a PMG4 problem
aka tunedbytad aka ProTools4 aka NotoriouSS

Offline tunedbytad

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2022, 10:42:55 AM »
If the 50" Vizio could get better than 1600 x 1200 I could capitalize on alot of digital real estate
Hi, My name is Tad
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2022, 11:36:18 AM »
Thanks for the picture, I really enjoyed looking at everything in the background :)

Nice Studio !

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2022, 12:41:32 PM »
so missing acceleration would be ok for you? it might be worth a try to go this route then and use a GF6 or GF7.
 
 
otoh, as for "maxing out" ...

dual link... is mostly used for very high frequencies, followed by the resolution of older 30" monitors.

and a single 30" monitor would actually be smaller than two 1920*1200 monitors, which is what the GF4 can do out of the box and with acceleration.

it is 4096k pixels vs. 4608k pixels with a small bar in the middle...
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Offline tunedbytad

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2022, 02:04:59 PM »
So I'm the uninitiated
are you saying a GeForce 7 with cut / taped traces will boot and run 2D in OS9 / MDD

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-7950-gt-agp.c754
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Offline tunedbytad

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2022, 02:11:05 PM »
Dumb question
Can two video cards run at once?
 AKA add a PCI video card that has 2560 x 1080 DVI output (in conjunction with an AGP card)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 02:42:43 PM by tunedbytad »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2022, 03:56:09 PM »
yes of course, you can add 4 PCI cards (OS9 compatible radeons) and run 6 monitors with OS9.

i was using a PCI graphics for the third monitor for 20 years, an just removed it a week ago because i have other plans for that slot. :)
(unfortunately there is no dual head PCI card and only for the third monitor it seemed no longer appropiate to waste a slot. i have now only 2x powercore and 2x SATA, everything else is in hibernation in cupboard #2.)

you will have already noticed that i was missing that there are of course dual dual-link dvi cards, so my statement about the "maxing out" is wrong.

i think the second generation of G5 exclusively had those dual dual and that is where i would pull one from.
BUT i can not guarantee you that smaller monitors will work with those dual link ports. so you might actually end up with 2 30".

it should be a mac card though, not anything else. and the "no acceleration" includes 2D. that will be ok with protools, but it is not okay when you use solid window dragging or require to run programs which do it on their own (like ableton or photoshop)

with 2 30" you have to rethink your stereo triangle. :P (same problem here) or leave the stacked arrangement.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 04:06:53 PM by IIO »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2022, 04:09:17 PM »

@xerograph is doing that for 10+ years i think.
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Offline refinery

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2022, 11:36:45 PM »
IIO when you say dual-head PCI do you mean dual DVI? Cuz I have a 9200 PCI in my beige G3 and it runs dual head monitors fine at 1920x1200, albeit one is VGA.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2022, 04:43:51 AM »
dual DVI != dual link DVI

dual DVI means 2 connectors on 1 card, dual link DVI is a different DVI connector with more contacts.

due to its doubled bandwith dual link DVI supports 30" size or frequencies of >150Hz - and it is more or less directly compatible with HDMI (cheap adapter and you are ready to go)

only in theory you can mix or split between normal and dual link, not in practice.

vintage 30" requires dual link DVI-I or dual link DVI-D at the card.


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Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2022, 04:59:18 AM »
and watch out, that a geforce 4 type of card might have a DVI-I connector, does not mean it would spit out more than -A. :)

to my knowledge the mac mini coreduo was the first computer which actually had -D.
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Offline teroyk

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2022, 08:23:32 AM »
In my knowledge and it is also in Wikipedia
single link max is:
2560 Ũ 1600 @ 30 Hz
but then there comes problem, what cards and monitors support those resolutions.
And nice think is that some monitors support even 24 hz so what is actual max with DVI,
lets calculate:
- bandwidth  4.95 Gbit/s (single link max)
- bits per pixel 24 bits or less(less is optional in standard) lets make 8 bits.
- hz 24 (although I have seen one Iiyama monitor supported even down to 40hz-interlanced (half of lines @ 40 hz))
= 4.95 G / 8 / 24 = 25,8 Mpixels in one frame
...it's almost 8K ! ofcourse there is blanking times and so on...
but at least 5K in real life if card and monitor support it...and I didn't even talk about dual link and dual head :)

My only question is that is there any low level tools for Mac OS 9 to tweak hz down to 24 hz?
Only that I know had come with Village Tronic VTBook 1.2 beta drivers, but I still looking for it (also with another reasons too).
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2022, 12:41:40 PM »
higher than 8 bit also requires dual link DVI by default, no matter the resolution.

btw. i dont think that you want to sit in front of 30Hz all day long. :)

so for now lets just say DVI supports WUXGA at 59.9 Hz.
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Offline teroyk

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2022, 03:11:03 PM »
higher than 8 bit also requires dual link DVI by default, no matter the resolution.

Actually no...in standard single-link is 24 bit/pixel...less bits is optional in DVI-standard.
25-48 bits/pixel is only with dual link...and it's only data not what monitor can really show.
And many modern HDMI cards and TVs and monitors are less than 24-bit.

btw. i dont think that you want to sit in front of 30Hz all day long. :)
Actually some flat-panels doesn't flickering at all..they are too slow for that.

so for now lets just say DVI supports WUXGA at 59.9 Hz.

Yes it is easiest think that way with single link DVI with 24bit colors.
And reality is that many times you have even lower because card or monitor.
I have seen with PCs that both card and monitor support 1920x1200, but
reality what worked together was 1600x1024, because it was best
that both find with EDID identification, because they had little different
preferred hz and aspect ratio. That kind of automation sucks, if you cannot
turn it off.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2022, 03:34:26 PM »
Actually no...in standard single-link is 24 bit/pixel...

according to the DVI specs it should not be used with single link - of course it might be that there is a monitor or a GPU  somewhere which would allow it.

in our OS9 world we should not worry too much about :)

Quote
Yes it is easiest think that way with single link DVI with 24bit colors.
And reality is that many times you have even lower because card or monitor.

transmission via longer cables is getting really problematic with more than 2k/1080p. you need to fix that using $$$ cables. :(

and there IS a noticeable difference between analog and digital connection. but letīs be happy what we have in OS9 and not run after foreign girls.

the only thing on my personal wish list would be a dual head PCI card.
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Offline teroyk

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2022, 12:53:23 AM »
Actually no...in standard single-link is 24 bit/pixel...
according to the DVI specs it should not be used with single link - of course it might be that there is a monitor or a GPU  somewhere which would allow it.

Where yo find that specs, I found this
from Digital Visual Interface DVI revision 1.0:
from page 18:
"The system must support the 24-bit MSB aligned RGB TFT data format as a minimum"
https://web.archive.org/web/20120813201146/http://www.ddwg.org/lib/dvi_10.pdf

in our OS9 world we should not worry too much about :)

Yes, because I think all Mac OS 9 compatible DVI cards support 24bit and 16 bit.
Except one. And I noticed that Village Tronic VTBook support
1600x1024@60 32bit and 1920x1200@60 16 bit and there is not 24 bit
between those resolutions and only way get resolution between them is lower refresh
or put VGA adapter...HDMI adapter makes it even worse if monitor doesn't support
HDTV refresh or 32bit (quite normal with HDMI, and don't mix that modern computers
show in control panel, its only 32bit in GPU memory).

transmission via longer cables is getting really problematic with more than 2k/1080p. you need to fix that using $$$ cables. :(
and there IS a noticeable difference between analog and digital connection.

Yes short cable and high quality cable that you can.

but letīs be happy what we have in OS9 and not run after foreign girls.
the only thing on my personal wish list would be a dual head PCI card.

Actually I am happy that we have those DVI-connections even with some Powerbooks.
There was still PC laptops in 2010 with bad quality VGA-connector. With OS9 Macs we
have always high quality monitor connector was it DB-15, VGA, ADC or DVI.

And my personal wish is to find version 1.2 beta driver for Village Tronic VTBook-card:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5548.0.html
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2022, 06:19:08 AM »
Yes, because I think all Mac OS 9 compatible DVI cards support 24bit and 16 bit.

i wonder if OS9 itself would support more than 8 bit i.e. "more than million of colors"?

given that there is no digital transmission available for computers which boot OS9.

Quote
Except one. And I noticed that Village Tronic VTBook support
1600x1024@60 32bit

how does their 32 bit work? you cant even divide 32 by 3. :)

while thinking about this villagetronic thing i just noticed that this is probably also the reason why there are no dual head PCI cards for OS9: because the bandwith of of most of our PCI slots would not be enough to max it out, especially for VGA.
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Offline robespierre

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2022, 09:46:51 AM »
Different fields use incompatible nomenclature for the "bitness" of color representations. In photography, scanning, printing, fields the depth of each color channel is normally given. For example, a 16-bit RAW image has 16 bits per channel. Graphic display adapters, on the contrary, normally give the number of bits stored per pixel in the frame buffer. These numbers can't be compared, since the data in the buffer may not be a direct color representation, but instead an indexed or colormap representation. For example, 256 color mode doesn't represent each color in 8 bits: 8 bits are an index into a colormap, and each color in the colormap has 24 or 32 bits of data representing it.

The classic MacOS color model (from the time of 32 Bit QuickDraw around 1990) uses 16 bit precision for color components, i.e. it is a 48 bit color model. The same is true of ColorSync. Software normally must decimate or reduce the precision of these color components when data is transferred to hardware, where the maximum precision is usually 24 bits (8 bits per component) or 32 bits (8 bits per component with 8 spare bits, sometimes used for alpha or transparent blending). 32 bits is a common pixel size for framebuffers even if no alpha channel is supported, because multiplication by 4 is a trivial operation in hardware that adds no delay or cost, while multiplication by 3 is not.

Quote
i wonder if OS9 itself would support more than 8 bit i.e. "more than million of colors"?

given that there is no digital transmission available for computers which boot OS9.

Analog VGA / DVI-A can be used with any color depth. Indeed, there are many systems that use 12 or 16 bits of precision per component in the video DAC. This additional precision helps with color uniformity and gamma correction and is an element of DICOM certification for medical radiography.

Quote
while thinking about this villagetronic thing i just noticed that this is probably also the reason why there are no dual head PCI cards for OS9: because the bandwith of of most of our PCI slots would not be enough to max it out, especially for VGA.

There are quite a few dual-head PCI graphics cards; there are even dual-head ISA graphics cards. The I/O speed of the bus interface has nothing to do with how RGB signals are output to monitors.

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2022, 11:26:42 AM »
Analog VGA / DVI-A can be used with any color depth.

if there are no components which can send and receive such signals you still cant use it.

Quote
There are quite a few dual-head PCI graphics cards

care to recommend one? :)

Quote
The I/O speed of the bus interface has nothing to do with how RGB signals are output to monitors.

iīve no idea how realistic that scenario is, but one possible scenario is always that you might want to send a different fullscreen picture every 16.66 ms.

so when the GPU and the monitor can do 2500x1400 but your RAM or the cardīs bus is slower, that slowest part is the bottleneck.

(plus no double buffering and small VRAM sizes under mac os 9 conditions, if you know what i mean.)

« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 11:39:27 AM by IIO »
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Offline teroyk

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2022, 04:43:20 PM »
Yes, because I think all Mac OS 9 compatible DVI cards support 24bit and 16 bit.
i wonder if OS9 itself would support more than 8 bit i.e. "more than million of colors"?
given that there is no digital transmission available for computers which boot OS9.
Quote
Except one. And I noticed that Village Tronic VTBook support
1600x1024@60 32bit
how does their 32 bit work? you cant even divide 32 by 3. :)
while thinking about this villagetronic thing i just noticed that this is probably also the reason why there are no dual head PCI cards for OS9: because the bandwith of of most of our PCI slots would not be enough to max it out, especially for VGA.

8 bit = 256 colors.
16 bit = thousand colors.
24 bit = million colors.

There is original Mac OS 9 bootable Powerbook G4 800/1000Mhz versions that has DVI. Also Quicksilver and up Powermacs has ADC or DVI-digital connector.

32 bit colors has 3x10bit colors...so actually 30bit, but some has extra bit for G and/or B in memory. But it is not actually in use.

Video-cards doesn't have to use all PCI bandwidth, because they have own memory witch is used when actual monitor signal is made. When refreshing picture and nothing new drawn to screen no PCI-bandwidth needed (actually it use only some bytes to tell OS when vertical blank and some another stuff happens). So Dual Head doesn't need more PCI-bandwidth if you don't try play video in full screen in both monitors.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2022, 05:55:57 PM »
Quote
When refreshing picture and nothing new drawn to screen no PCI-bandwidth needed

i am more worried about the moment where you do need to write new pictures. :)

because that is what i do sometimes. not like in OSX, where even the finder consists of GL objects. :)

but i am still wrong, because PCI is not the bottleneck here anway.
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2022, 12:03:22 PM »
As far a dual-link DVI and APG G4's there really has not been found a solution. The GeForce 6600 GT AGP should support it, but without any drivers of OS 9 that is going to be a no go unless we can work some magic.

The Mac X800 XT supported it, however it was AGP PRO, so it only works in the G5. A PC X800/X850 XT didn't support Dual-link DVI, tho the cards that had Dual DVI ports may have supported it. Whatever the FireGL equivalent of the X800/X850XT was would be the best bet, but there are still some things about outputs we don't understand in the Mac FCode ROM for those cards.

Lightbulbfun did flash a FireGL X3 that works in G4's and G5's with AGP, so I asked him to test Dual-Link DVI resolutions, let's see what he says.....

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/eeprom-replacement-and-flashing-x850-xt-rom-on-firegl-x3.2016538/

 

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2022, 08:21:12 PM »
i think only the monitor must support it? because people are successfully using their 30" monitors in OS9.
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2022, 06:50:48 AM »
As far a dual-link DVI and APG G4's there really has not been found a solution. The GeForce 6600 GT AGP should support it, but without any drivers of OS 9 that is going to be a no go unless we can work some magic.

The Mac X800 XT supported it, however it was AGP PRO, so it only works in the G5. A PC X800/X850 XT didn't support Dual-link DVI, tho the cards that had Dual DVI ports may have supported it. Whatever the FireGL equivalent of the X800/X850XT was would be the best bet, but there are still some things about outputs we don't understand in the Mac FCode ROM for those cards.

Lightbulbfun did flash a FireGL X3 that works in G4's and G5's with AGP, so I asked him to test Dual-Link DVI resolutions, let's see what he says.....

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/eeprom-replacement-and-flashing-x850-xt-rom-on-firegl-x3.2016538/

 

LBF reported a flashed FireGl X3 works just fine with Dual-Link DVI in a AGP G4 under OS X.

So we should be able to extract the 'NDRV' and create a OS 9 Driver for the card. It won't allow for graphics acceleration, but if you're just looking to use the card to drive a high resolution desktop and be able to change the screen resolution and color bit depth the FireGL X3 flashed with a Mac FCode ROM should bring up to 3840 x 2400 to OS 9.

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2022, 08:01:42 AM »
3840*2400... that is... 9,2M... or in other words... dual dual link. so you would think one can combine different outputs by writing a custom driver?

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Offline tunedbytad

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2022, 08:20:44 PM »
How do I do this?
Hi, My name is Tad
I have a PMG4 problem
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2022, 05:31:25 AM »
3840*2400... that is... 9,2M... or in other words... dual dual link. so you would think one can combine different outputs by writing a custom driver?

Sorry Max res. of 2560 x 1600 @ 60Hz on the Dual-Link port.

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2022, 05:38:53 AM »
How do I do this?

It maybe necessary to solder a new lager EEPROM to the card, but there is a reduced ROM for the FireGL X3:

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/local--files/wikidownloads2/FireGL_X3_mac.rom.zip

You need to disable PINS 3 and 11 on the card because the G4 used some Reserved PINS on the AGP PINOUT.

You flash the ROM to the card and install the Mac OS 9 'NDRV' that can be extracted from OS X, then the card should just work.

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« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 11:18:22 AM by darthnVader »

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2022, 05:51:19 PM »
I ordered a FireGL X3, converted it to Mac and disabled pins 3 and 11 and booted OS 9 in all it's 2560x1600 glory. 8)

As long as you don't mind losing 2D/3D graphics acceleration, it works just great to display the desktop and the full range of desktop resolutions and color bit depth are fully working.

Best in a Mirrored Drive Door system, some Digital Audio and Quicksilver G4's have an AGP race condition bug that makes them incompatible with the X3/X800/X850/R9600 PC/Mac.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2022, 04:10:20 AM »

when i am not mistaken, the dual link cards use 2560x800 (for the frist generation 30" monitors) - 2560x1080 is far too much for DVI.

also, these 30" monitors are DVI-D only (i believe every DVI dual link connection is), which is why it cant work using ADB or VGA for one of the connections.

the third problem is that the connection usually only works when the graphic cards accepts the connection the monitor suggests: after it is found, it will tell your GPU that it requires dual link, and then a GF 4 mostly likely will simply answer "sorry, not in stock, try elsewhere".
 
 
while the GF6 will work to connect a 30" monitor, it will do that without (any) acceleration. and this is no fun unless you really only do protools TDM or display images in a store window.



however, you will be limited to 1 of them because there are no compatible PCI GPUs. in other words: it wont raise your pixel count above the use of WUXGA sized monitors (which are not limited only 2 monitors.)

I'm interested in what GeForce 6 card was used here?

Years ago a flashed a GeForce 6600 GT AGP that has dual DVI, but I did not have a dual link DVI monitor to test with, I always wondered if one of the two DVI ports would support Dual-Link with the Mac FCode ROM? Maybe even both as I think the PCI-E 256MB GeForce 6600 OEM card that shipped with the 2005 G5's supported two Dual-Link connections?


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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2022, 04:19:25 AM »
IIO

I ONLY DO PROTOOLS 5.1.3 TDM MIX PLUS Expansion x7

For me the point of OS9 and PPC G4 MDD is driving my "all in" / "Maxed out" 2002ish era ProTools Rig

no games
no 3d
no cad
not even word / text / or spread sheet

Driving a:
-LG 32 wide Screen DVI Monitor
-50" Viso HDMI TV


I am getting 2560 x 1080 out of the LG 32 Widescreen...???


I don't understand the kit you are using here, is this the OEM GF4 Ti with DVI/ADC?

Anyway I can't see how you are getting 2560x1080 at all, isn't the max resolution of single link DVI 165mHz 1920x1200@60?

Did you use switchres to lower the refresh rate, or maybe your LG natively supports 30Hz refresh rate?

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2022, 04:22:15 AM »
his original question was along the lines if you could combine two DVI ports to use it as dual link.
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Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2022, 04:26:04 AM »
I'm interested in what GeForce 6 card was used here?

i dont know what drivers people use to make it available to OS9 (or if that is even neccessary) but every example i saw until now were geforce 6x and 7x taken from the apple G5 models.
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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2022, 06:07:45 AM »
I'm interested in what GeForce 6 card was used here?

i dont know what drivers people use to make it available to OS9 (or if that is even neccessary) but every example i saw until now were geforce 6x and 7x taken from the apple G5 models.

It just takes the video setting from Open Firmware, you can set the screen to a compatible resolution/bit depth in OS X and it will save that somehow to Open Firmware and the Mac OS ROM will just use that for OS 9.

Sadly 'NDRV's work a lot different with GeForce cards and everything pasted the GF4 lack a classic Mac OS Rom based 'NDRV'.

That's why I went to the trouble to test this with an ATI card as the OS X 'NDRV's are normally compatible with the classic Mac OS, and it was with the X800/FireGL X3 ROM. While we don't get any GFX acceleration at least we can change the screen resolution and bit depth in OS 9.

I also tested with my QS 800Mhz and it works just fine with the Apple 30" display in both OS 9 and OS X, so we can at least say the QS 800Mhz doesn't suffer from the AGP race condition that some QS and DA's suffer from. I have a few 733Mhz QS's and a 867mhz model sold as Education without the L3 cache that the production model had, I'll test those when I get time.

The Radeon 9600 Mac/PC edition also supports Dual-Link DVI on one port, but also suffers from the AGP Race Condition bug in some DA/QS models, but good luck finding one, they are rare as hen's teeth.

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got my mind on my scsi and my scsi on my mind

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2022, 08:53:19 AM »
There's one on eBay right now for $120

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265791838278?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=BhrxgrksTj2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=SJ9KN-eSRDy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Saw this yesterday, that's actually a great price for a super rare NIB card. No muss no fuss with taping pins, works great in MDD or G5's, but ATI removed support for DA/QS G4's due to the spotty AGP race condition.

The card is dual DVI with one Dual-Link port that mixes tow external TMDS's to drive the dual-link. Tho I have some question if the second DVI port can drive a digital display if you are using Dual-Link on the other port.EDIT check that, the card has 3 TMDS's and the Dual-Link port supports displays up to 330mHz:

With the firmware problem taken care of, the rest of the card works just fine in either type of system.  It's an AGP 4X card that'll work in both 4X and 8X slots, meaning that it can be used in both Power Mac G4 and G5 systems, as well as PCs, obviously. The card features two DVI outputs, one of which is driven by the two external Silicon Image TMDS transmitters on the board itself.  The two TMDS transmitters in conjunction enable one of the DVI outputs to support dual-link displays, such as the 30" Cinema Display, at full resolution.  ATI wants the 9600 Pro Mac & PC Edition to be the card that enables other display makers to bring out similarly high resolution desktop displays, as this one card can drive them regardless of platform.  The dual-link DVI port supports a maximum 330MHz pixel clock, and only approximately 270MHz is required to drive the 30" Cinema Display's 2560 x 1600 resolution, so higher resolutions will be supported if other panel makers are so inclined.  The single link DVI port is a standard 165MHz connection, the fastest speed supported by a single TMDS transmitter.  ATI includes a single DVI-to-VGA adapter in the box.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2022, 09:39:18 AM »
I am shocked that this card is not sold already, I highly doubt you will see another of these NIB, if this lasts more than a day or 2 it's a miracle.

I love when new old stock is found in some warehouse

Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2022, 11:14:21 AM »
if it is not really better or easier than using a geforce 6 i would rather buy a G5 for 120 euro, then i get a spare tower in addition. :)
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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2022, 07:58:31 AM »
if it is not really better or easier than using a geforce 6 i would rather buy a G5 for 120 euro, then i get a spare tower in addition. :)

But we want to run OS 9 here at insane screen resolutions.......


Offline IIO

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2022, 10:40:56 AM »
not sure what you mean. the 9600 pro first shipped with G5s and there is no ATI support for it in OS9.

so why spend 120 for a card when you can get the same card by buying a G5 for less?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 10:52:51 AM by IIO »
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Offline refinery

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2022, 07:33:18 PM »
The aftermarket 9600 is not the same as the one that shipped in the G5s, it's slightly faster... There's articles on BareFeats about it.

But yeah, not having any native driver support in OS9 kinda defeats the purpose.
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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2022, 10:53:16 PM »
not sure what you mean. the 9600 pro first shipped with G5s and there is no ATI support for it in OS9.

so why spend 120 for a card when you can get the same card by buying a G5 for less?

G5 cards are AGP PRO, not 4x AGP, so unless you plan on taking a hacksaw to the G5 card it won't fit in the G4's AGP 4x slot.

Some people have been able to do such things with cards that don't really need the extra power supplied by the pins you have to cut off the connector.

Tho the R9600 XT came with a standard non "Pro" connector with 128MB VRAM and can be used in some G4's when taping pins 3 and 11, it doesn't support Dual-Link DVI. The R9600 Mac/PC Edition has 3 external TMDS's and can drive one Dual-Link DVI display as well as a standard DVI Single-Link display and has a 256MB VRAM.

There is a Native Device Driver( 'NDRV' ) for OS 9 support, you just don't get any 2D/3D GPU acceleration, but you can drive displays at insane resolutions, and that's the whole point of this thread, more desktop spaces when using static windows.

There was a R9650 that had dual dvi and can drive one single link DVI and one Dual-Link DVI with 265MB VRAM, but good luck finding one for less than $120, tho they do pop up from time to time at good prices.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 11:04:48 PM by darthnVader »

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2022, 10:56:08 AM »

Offline teroyk

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Re: Dual DVI @ 2560 x 1080
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2022, 04:30:05 AM »
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

 


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