SCSI Card Help Required Please 🙏🏻

[Matt_C]

Hello all,

I have a Powermac G3 (the blue one) and have limited knowledge of the internal details of the machine. I just know how to use it for the job I want it to do.

That job is to send audio samples to my hardware sampler (Akai S3000XL) from the program called Recycle via SCSI connection.

The G3 had a SCSI Card when I bought it and everything works fine.
I have since acquired a second Akai sampler and would like to know if I can install a second SCSI card in the G3 and communicate with them simultaneously, Selecting each one as I choose. I would also like to know if there is a dual output SCSI card on the market that will be compatible with my G3? I know that the Adaptec 2906 is compatible, but am unsure if I can install and run a second card in the machine.

Thanks for your help.

Matt.

[Philgood]

Doesn’t have the SCSI card an internal AND external conector?
If you are using the external you could get an adapter cable to go from the internal port to the second sampler routing the cable through one of the pci extension panel which you can take out.

[zefrenchtoon]

Hi!

First, you should check your SCSI card model because some models of the B&W G3 were sold with a Ultra2Wide SCSI card using LVD (Low voltage differential) and the first revision of this card was buggy when using external peripherals.

For this reason, my father had to buy a 2930 to use its MO drive ...

Then, depending of the SCSI protocol used, you can connect up to 7 or 15 peripherals on 1 card. Each peripheral had to be identified using jumpers, dip switches or rotary selector (depending of the manufacturer).
This is done by chaining peripherals so if your sampler does not provide a second scsi connector, you will not be able to chain it and you will have to connect it as the last one in the chain.

Then, the difference between 2930 and 2906 is mainly the external connector used (also performances I think but here it is not the goal I think).
About models useable on this computer, you should be able to use 2906, 2930, 2940 but also 29160 etc. Main difference between Mac and PC cards are the firmware which allows you to boot from SCSI drive or not (I may be wrong, it's a long time I did not "play" with them).

Of course, you can install as much card as you have PCI slot available.

Finally, I checked your sampler model on google and saw that there is only 1 SCSI port and no ID selector so its ID should be static and you will have to check it in your sampler manual.
Then, yes, 2906 should be a good option to add another sampler. Sad to see that they did not put another port to chain them.

[zefrenchtoon]

I just saw that the ID is configurable using menu and by default set to 5 on this sampler series.
For example, internal SCSI HDD usually use ID 0, internal SCSI CDROM use ID 3

[Matt_C]

First off, thank you for getting back to me guys, it is very appreciated. A lot of what you have asked me is over my head as I am more of a basic user than knowing what the internal parts are/mean/do. However, I have taken pictures that will hopefully will be good enough for you to identify the parts and specs that my machine has.

[/quote]

Doesn’t have the SCSI card an internal AND external conector?
If you are using the external you could get an adapter cable to go from the internal port to the second sampler routing the cable through one of the pci extension panel which you can take out.

@Philgood - I really don't know if this is the external connector that you are referring too, but hopefully this image shows enough to determine that?

Powermac G3 by Matthew Cornwell, on Flickr

Hi!

First, you should check your SCSI card model because some models of the B&W G3 were sold with a Ultra2Wide SCSI card using LVD (Low voltage differential) and the first revision of this card was buggy when using external peripherals.

For this reason, my father had to buy a 2930 to use its MO drive ...

Then, depending of the SCSI protocol used, you can connect up to 7 or 15 peripherals on 1 card. Each peripheral had to be identified using jumpers, dip switches or rotary selector (depending of the manufacturer).
This is done by chaining peripherals so if your sampler does not provide a second scsi connector, you will not be able to chain it and you will have to connect it as the last one in the chain.

Then, the difference between 2930 and 2906 is mainly the external connector used (also performances I think but here it is not the goal I think).
About models useable on this computer, you should be able to use 2906, 2930, 2940 but also 29160 etc. Main difference between Mac and PC cards are the firmware which allows you to boot from SCSI drive or not (I may be wrong, it's a long time I did not "play" with them).

Of course, you can install as much card as you have PCI slot available.

Finally, I checked your sampler model on google and saw that there is only 1 SCSI port and no ID selector so its ID should be static and you will have to check it in your sampler manual.
Then, yes, 2906 should be a good option to add another sampler. Sad to see that they did not put another port to chain them.

So after taking the M-Audio Card out,  I can see that I have an Adaptec 2906 installed and working.
So at the very least I now know that I can install 1 more of those in the G3 and connect to my second sampler.

Further to my previous questions, I have seen a SCSI card that would allow me to connect a 3rd Sampler if my heart so desires.
Do you know if this would this be compatible with the G3?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354005911472?hash=item526c6587b0:g:UyEAAOSw871iVcpk&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4Caj%2BsTAG9ZOlBh2y7ZO4At4xlAvvGp4nrrjXsTUsb4o7wCcE2G%2BYYTQcoAUupgMOreKw6FjyZ2T%2F6foYtQtCp9ZrXqSS1nMDNlzgF4BpQ8RaT4Wc2iW941onrxnhGShmmMgx8rKzEfOYrWfG8CusEM3CGiIZWPMualyciPRZdsPimzwdH4GqT2JK7vARNFneBdhsvF1PRhKqQqg3DPGVd%2BSWeUQsDDmPNxwTQR3B04CgumWcRVsV2mavtyfdWoVJisijaK3ViQWZkEH5ogNIOCGIwwhMCwDbQaViFXcvYN5%7Ctkp%3ABFBM9pDRg6lg

These are a few more pictures that I took that may be of help.

Powermac G3 by Matthew Cornwell, on Flickr

Powermac G3 by Matthew Cornwell, on Flickr

Powermac G3 by Matthew Cornwell, on Flickr

Powermac G3 by Matthew Cornwell, on Flickr

Thanks again for your help guys.

Matt.

[zefrenchtoon]

Hi!

So it is a 2906 card ...  with an external and an internal connector.

You can connect your primary sampler on the external connector and then, you should be able to connect a secondary one on the internal one by using an adapter like this one:

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/153561365420

you can even try to mount it using a bracket like the 9200-8 you can see here:
https://www.aboveboardelectronics.com/keyelco/standpro/specpage/spec161.htm  (good luck to find one or maybe you can take one and use a dremel to make it yourself...)


then your idea of using a 39160 card ... it should work ...  but these series of card are made for high troughtput scsi drives, not for samplers so it should work using adapters (not the same connectors) but there is a doubt on the usability of this card on OS9. Here we can see that it should work flawlessly on OS9:  http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20021206054130941

[refinery]

39160 works fine on OS9, I have one in my MDD, doing something very similar here. At one point I had four samplers hooked up across two SCSI busses on my 39160.

Question: how are you storing the samples on the S3000XL?  The thing to keep in mind is that you're going to have to have one storage drive (floppy or scsi) connected to each sampler, as using the sampler-mac-sampler option listed above will not work for sharing one storage drive between the two samplers. The reason for this is in 95% of cases, SCSI cards are internally terminated, so the two samplers, while able to see the computer, will not be able to see anything on the other side of the computer.
That is, unless you have a card like the 39160 which has an option to disable internal termination. Some do this through software, some do it through a jumper on the card.
Also, one caveat to note with the 39160 is it uses VHDCI connectors which in order to use with older legacy equipment can start to get really pricey.


The 39160 also allows you do to some really exotic stuff like change the Mac SCSI ID from 7 to whatever you want, which can be really useful if you're trying to use a SCSI2SD setup with a sampler that is hard-coded to ID7, like a Korg Triton.

[refinery]

Also, another very important note, not all applications can support more than one SCSI bus in a machine. I'm not sure Recycle is one of those or not. Only one I know for sure that does was the very last version of DSP Quattro for OS9. I think recycle works (been a long time since I tried) but if you go the second SCSI card route, or the multi-bus on one card route like the 29160/39160, it's a factor to consider

[DieHard]

Hey Mat,

Here is some background info. we discussed a while back explaining some hardware SCSI stuff, might be helpful

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1712.msg13974.html#msg13974

[Matt_C]

39160 works fine on OS9, I have one in my MDD, doing something very similar here. At one point I had four samplers hooked up across two SCSI busses on my 39160.

Question: how are you storing the samples on the S3000XL?  The thing to keep in mind is that you're going to have to have one storage drive (floppy or scsi) connected to each sampler, as using the sampler-mac-sampler option listed above will not work for sharing one storage drive between the two samplers. The reason for this is in 95% of cases, SCSI cards are internally terminated, so the two samplers, while able to see the computer, will not be able to see anything on the other side of the computer.
That is, unless you have a card like the 39160 which has an option to disable internal termination. Some do this through software, some do it through a jumper on the card.
Also, one caveat to note with the 39160 is it uses VHDCI connectors which in order to use with older legacy equipment can start to get really pricey.


The 39160 also allows you do to some really exotic stuff like change the Mac SCSI ID from 7 to whatever you want, which can be really useful if you're trying to use a SCSI2SD setup with a sampler that is hard-coded to ID7, like a Korg Triton.

Firstly I would just like to say thank you for all of the information.

In answer to your question, I have a Gotek HXE emulator installed in what was the floppy disk drive.

A lot of this info is a bit over my head, I don't even know how to use the HXE emulator at the moment, I just bounce the sound out and into my iMac.

I am learning slowly though!

[refinery]

You'll be fine if you're using goteks. They are not connected to the SCSI bus. Some folks remove the floppy drive and replace it with a SCSI2SD device which is a bit different of a situation. Due to the price of SCSI2SDs, frequently people will try to share one between multiple devices which can get fairly complicated.