Mac OS 9 can't booting, grey screen only

[V.Yakob]

Is there no such thing as a Mac user group in Russia?

Well...
Apple is very popular in Russia, mostly because of the iPhone, Watch, AirPods, iPad, but in my opinion, there are fewer Mac users.
And I'll say more, I myself sometimes write manuals for Mac on the blog, because there is little information about Mac in Russian, unless it comes to a "checkbox in the settings" or reviews. For example, I configured a pf firewall on Mac, organized a network TimeMachine on Linux with domain user authentication, transparent domain user authentication to Wi-Fi through the Radius server in Logon Window without using Server.app.
As for old Macs, many people know nothing about them, or have seen them only in the movies. For example, in the movie Hackers (1995), the heroes of the film use Mac, and OS, probably System 7.5.
We have more computers on Windows, 20 years ago everyone I knew had Windows, and no one had a Mac.  I know that it was used in designers, printing houses, etc. But not everything is so bad, there is an Apple computer museum in Moscow, there are a lot of things there. You can find photo reports on the Internet, see if you are interested.
And as you can understand, I have never used Mac OS 9 before on a real computer, only on an emulator, which is not effective. I'm interested! I bought this MDD for old games and Mac OS 9. 
I'm new user Mac OS 9. More precisely, I want to be.

I'm sorry for the offtop, but you asked.

And so, I got a video card, flashed it, and it works fine on Mac OS X Tiger. Mac OS 9 continues to show a gray screen. It turns out, the problem is not in the video card.

peeperpc, When I received this computer, there was a native disk (80 GB) with one partition installed OS X Tiger + Classic
Mac OS 9, which was supposed to boot from Classic files did not boot, there was only a gray screen.
The SSD and PATA to SATA adapter appeared later.
Then I bought a basket with 2 250 GB drives that I connected to port ATA/66, I tried to restore to one of these MacOS9Lives.img images from Mac_OS_9_Universal_install.iso using the Tiger disk utility.
If I choose to boot from a disk connected to ATA/66, it looks like this in NVRAM: mac-io/ata-4@1f000/@1f000/@0:10,\\:tbxi
I tried to install 3 different PATA HDDs, 1 SATA HDD through the adapter and 1 SATA SSD through the adapter, used ATA/100 and 2 ATA/66, as well as 4 different PATA cables.
I also tried 2 DVD-ROM drives, 2 ATA/66 ports and 2 PATA cables.
Only sometimes, it is not clear why, Mac OS 9 boots or I see frozen stripes with a floppy disk, or "Happy Mac" appears and the boot freezes. I've been struggling with it for a ~2 month, and I've probably tried everything.

I replaced disks, cables, monitor, RAM, video card, even specially bought a one-button mouse to work in Mac OS 9 -- Nothing helped. I can't be wrong all the time.


The circle is closed, last two option:
1. Accept fate and accept the fact that I can't boot Mac OS 9;
2. Spend $100 on another MDD.

Unfortunately, due to sanctions, I can't buy a motherboard on eBay.

[GaryN]

Today I installed a new SSD, divided it into several partitions. Installed 10.4.
Copied the "System Folder" and "Applications (Mac OS 9)" directories from the os9general.dmg package to this section, to no avail
I noticed a strange thing, right after copying, rebooting and holding Opt, I did not see the possibility of loading Mac OS 9, it appears only after rebooting with the choice of Mac OS 9.

Oh jeez… I just went ALL the way back to the beginning and found the above.
It now suddenly looks like this may turn out to be yet another SSD bridge adapter that doesn't do cable select problem.
…and it was right here in front of us all the time?

I've been (mildly) admonished in the past for telling users to spend a few (literally, only a few) extra bucks on the RED StarTech bridge boards because they simply always work and work properly in QS and MDD Macs. I have no idea of the availability of them in Russia but if this turns out to have been the issue all along, it won't surprise me AT ALL.

If necessary, here is a primer on IDE cables and the difference between cable select and plain master/slave ones. It's possible to convert a CS to a M/S to force the recognition of an M/S-only SATA bridge card.
http://unixwiz.net/techtips/ide-cable-select.html

I remember trying to find modern engine parts (hoses etc.) that would work or could be made to work in my 1967 MGB.

     This is not much different at all, and preferable to the Kremlin spyware theory…

[IIO]

 OR a non-cable select cable,

i was thinking about that, too, but didnt say anything because ... how likely is it that someone changes that cable against another one? (and wouldnt OSX also refuse to boot then?)

also, he could fix his problem by simply switching HDDs in that case.

[FBz]

“It now suddenly looks like this may turn out to be yet another SSD bridge adapter that doesn't do cable select problem.
…and it was right here in front of us all the time?”

If only it was really that simple. I do really wish.

Vitaly is not using his adapter in conjunction with another drive on the same cable. I often use a single drive and Bribge adapter (jumpered as Master) in MDDs without problem. And I really wasn’t certain that he was using a Bribge, as the link he provided for the adapter - showed two different adapters (one of which was not a Bribge). Then I found another early image he sent and it certainly looks like a Bribge on the last ATA-100 ribbon cable connector - just as I often use. (He’s also tested it set as a Slave.)

      

AND… as Vitaly cannot even get a conventional HD to accept and boot OS 9 (sans any adapter) it doesn’t sound like the adapter and SSD makes any difference anyway. The thing just will not accept, nor boot from OS 9… regardless of his approach. StarTech or Bribge be damned.

Certainly the StarTechs / Addonics are likely best(?) in MDD two-drive scenarios, but performance-wise and in head-to-head comparisons (even in an MDD) the RXD-629A7-7 adapters are nearly as good and for less money. Compare benchmarks here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5436.msg43799.html#msg43799 / Last year the StarTechs / Addonics were $18-$35 each and the RXD’s were right around $10.00. Need to buy more than one and the cost adds up very quickly for a very minor performance boost - IF any at all. (See the benchmarks in link above.)

Then enter the poor lowly Bribge. If it doesn’t cost very much - then it can’t be any good, right? It’s the all around best value, bang-fer-yer-buck in a single drive / ribbon cable use, in an MDD. We had ‘em for cheap last year and still have plenty left. (U.S. orders only.) And lovely in a Quicksilver or G3 B&W.

Bribge vs. StarTech in a G3 B&W….. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6231.0;attach=9825;image

Other benchmark comparisons (Red vs. Green) in Quicksilvers, Digital Audios and MDDs… are also scattered throughout the forum.
Ain’t no admonishment… just simple facts.

I like Bribges… like I once liked Legos and Lincoln Logs.
      
*Blame the above, Bribge “Quicksilver Hillbilly-Array” on IIO. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6327.msg47288.html#msg47288
  And the four-stack “pod” does fit under the Quicksilver’s fan. Some assembly required. Not actual size, etc.


Maybe some day the current political B.S. / war will end and sanctions will be lifted. Then mobos, video cards, SSDs and adapters may again traverse the globe. Until then, perhaps this is all now at the point that Vitaly might consider the Mac OS 9.2.2 For Previously Unsupported G4s because the damned thing acts like a FW800 MDD - why not treat it as one? (Joking and not joking.)

[IIO]

hahaha. and good morning.

now that post is true coincidence - where the heck did you got that photo from?

that custom "sidepanel" solution using HDD screws was my temporary end result yesterday after i couldnt find out if a 4-tray metal case for 30-50 dollars will actually fit into a quicksilver CD case.

and i will have to find the fastest adapters you can get for the 2 boot drives. atm all i tried are slower than 70mb/s, which i had with IDE, and it is not acceptable to deteriorate!

(1.board bus= may not be slower than before. 2. sonnet & SSD = for when speed matters. 3.all other connections= speed does not matter for storage.)

And the four-stack “pod” does fit under the Quicksilver’s fan

mine needs to go on top of CD. i planned mine much lower in the beginning until i noticed that it makes more sense to use small HDDs for those cheap adapters on the ACARD.

[FBz]

Yesterday darthnvader suggested that Vitaly run debug on one of his installer CDs and the results were that he was finally capable of getting further into the actual OS 9.2 boot process than ever before. (Needless to say that after all this time, Vitaly was ecstatic!) Only, to be confronted with the following…


 

I've suggested that now, instead of booting with extensions off - he might remove / move “all but the essential” OS 9 extensions to the disabled extensions file folder in his OS 9 partition (via OS X) and then attempt an OS 9 boot. But with the time differences between our locations, it often takes a day to hear back from him.

So that’s where this all is, now.

He has provided a nine minute video of the entire debug process that can be made available to anyone wanting to review it.
Message me and I can provide a link.

[V.Yakob]

Yeah!! Yesterday I can't believe my eyes when I rebooted MDD several times, and every time I saw an unsuccessful attempt to start Mac OS 9. I've probably never been happy about errors before.

I don't know how, but turning on debug mode helped to boot Mac OS 9 in OpenFirmware:

Code: [Select]

dev /
13fff encode-int " AAPL,debug" property
boot cd:,\\:tbxi
A universal community disk was inserted into the CD-Drive.

Today, again, only a gray screen. I started boot from Debug mode ~7 times, but Mac OS 9 did not boot, only this damn gray screen.

GaryN, you're probably right, need to send this MDD to Romania, to the gypsies, so that they remove all the curses from him. 

[IIO]

if you get a "bus error" from a fresh OS9 install then something is wrong with some hardware.

if it is not the graphics card the next i would check is if the preowner maybe broke the power of the USB ports.

[GaryN]

CLUES???

1.  Way back when, you mentioned you were running PC3200 RAM. Some asshat told you "Don't worry, it will just run at PC2700 speed".

2.  From the beginning of Macintosh time, a "bus error" has (mostly) meant the system tried to access memory that wasn't there. THAT usually meant a defective RAM stick or bad RAM slot or something related to RAM.

It would seem like a good idea (to me at least) to track down and try some proper PC2700 RAM. I have no idea if that's easy or impossible for you at this time but if you can, I think it might be a good idea. Yes, on the surface it seems unlikely that this is the problem since OSX boots without issue, BUT:

OS9 may perform a memory test at startup. Perhaps it's hanging there because it's never before seen PC3200 RAM.

This "feature" can be turned on and off but unfortunately, you have to already be in OS9 to access the Memory Control Panel and, well……
If you had another OS9-capable machine you could check the test status in the System you're trying to boot and ensure that it's off but you don't and you probably ought to have PC-2700 in there anyway and, and……

Wait!! I have yet another idea!   Please don't ask why it took this long for anybody to think of this

1. Attempt to boot OS9.
2. Immediately after the initial chime, while holding your phone or other image-capture device in one hand, press and hold Command-V with the other to invoke Verbose Mode.
3. Text will scroll up the screen as the system starts and will stop when the boot hangs. Take a pic of the text and post it. It MAY offer a real clue as to what's going wrong.
4. If the text disappears first and the screen goes gray, get pics of all you can before the text goes away.
5. Post them it/them here and cross your fingers…

[V.Yakob]

The theory is unlikely, since the frequency from 400 to 333 should be lowered by the motherboard when primary initialization is performed. I checked your theory with the question "What if he's right?"
I have several PC2700 RAM sticks and installed 2x256 mb. Yes, you're right, finding such a memory, 4*512 PC2700 is not easy, and sometimes very expensive.

I started MDD and held ⌘+V. Most likely, in Mac OS 9 it is not a protocol mode, as in OS X, but a network boot... A flashing globe appears.



I opened a new topic on booting debugging.

[GaryN]

I hoped that the OS9 memory check was activated and hanging because of the 3300 RAM. Especially when the almost-boot showed "bus error".
Oh well…

As for verbose mode, much (all?) of it is a log of the UNIX kernel coming up but I hoped (there's that word again) possibly some little thing from firmware or ? might display first.
Oh well…

This is where (no, actually we were here long ago) I would be trying a different motherboard. Yes, I know they don't exactly grow on trees there. At this point however, if you can actually find another MDD, The purchase can be justified as acquiring some spare parts.

I am otherwise (and I really hate to admit it) totally out of ideas…

[vad12]

If you can burn cds and have access to macintosh repository, you can try the Apple diagnostics tools they have hosted there. One of them should be optimized for MDDs, I'm just not sure which. Those are supposed to be the "official" hardware diagnostics tools for Apple machines. macintosh garden probably has those CD images too.

I have a Sawtooth with a busted DVD drive, so I haven't had first-hand experience with those tools and can't say much more about them.

[IIO]

The theory is unlikely

if you get a bus error, it can be any bus, including RAM. (until we know better )

RAM, USB, IDE, PCI and AGP cards are in my opinion the most interesting things to look at (a malfunctioning speaker or bluetooth device should not interfere with booting)