Mac OS 9 can't booting, grey screen only

[FBz]

Latest from V. Yakob.

After another attempted installation, got this far before lock-up.
Notice what looks like 5 extensions loaded (whereas the Universal Installer normally loads 7.)



If only the bands at the bottom did not obscure what extensions actually loaded before the lock-up.

And then a reboot afterwards yielded the same old gray screen routine.

Have suggested another attempted install and reboot afterwards, holding down the Shift key.

Anybody / other ideas


*Click to enlarge.

[IIO]

what happens if you perform force-quit after this lockup?

does it eventually kill the ATI driver (instead of the finder)?

[Sea Mac]

Hi!

I have PowerMac G4 MDD (FW400, 2003), I can't boot into Mac OS 9.2.2.

Tried:
1. Mac OS 9 Live community image to use
2. Software Restoration images 691-4872-A, 691-4873-A and 691-4409-A.
3. Unpacked os9general.dmg
4. Installed CPU_MacOS9_Z.pkg_.zip
5. Reset NVRAM using ⌘+⌥+P+R
6. Reset NVRAM via OpenFirmware ⌘+⌥+F+O
reset-nvram
set-defaults
reset-all

I used Apple Service Diagnostic (691-4769) to check the hardware and AHT 2.0.2 -- no problems were found, the tests were passed successfully.

The result is always the same -- Mac OS 9 does not boot. Just a gray screen, it turns out to get out of this state only by holding the power button.

At the same time, Mac OS X 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 work fine. Classic mode starts without problems.

What am I missing for a native Mac OS 9 boot?

I stupidly stumbled upon the (I Hope) proper answer about a day before that same web site also directed me HERE. I thought  to myself "I'll never be able to use this archaic information ... "
And the FIRST Problem I meet, when I joined today: was THIS One.
"D@m*, I swear I just read that answer YESTERDAY - and thought it extremely arcane ... WHICH Web Site WAS IT ON?!?"

Aren't you glad I remembered?

https://vintagemacmuseum.com/resources/mac-software/

Skip down to Just Under the Picture ...

Mac OS 9.2.2 for PowerMac G4 MDD – Retail Mac OS 9 installers do not work on the last generation PowerMac G4 MDD models. This is a copy of Mac OS 9.2.2 included on the MDD bundled Software Restore CDs which is able to boot these G4 models into OS 9 (FireWire 400 models only). It can also be used as Classic Mode on any PowerMac running Mac OS X 10.1-10.4.

Try this Image: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-922-powermac-g4-mdd

This Link may be of some help also: http://vintagemacmuseum.com/reinstalling-mac-os-9-on-a-powermac-g4-mdd/

[V.Yakob]

This may be a monitor and video card or OS compatibility issue: Acer AL1917 C <--> ATI Radeon 9000, 64 Mb, Mac Edition
When the computer starts up, the monitor works in 60 Hz mode. It is possible that Mac OS 9, as well as MorphOS, cannot determine the monitor or its configuration, and therefore the boot freezes.

My past "random" Mac OS 9 boots were successful apparently only because the video card with the monitor was able to agree and choose the right resolution and hertz. So far, only guesses.

I just bought another monitor: Apple Cinema Display 23", early 2007. I'm waiting for it to be delivered, and it will be possible to say more precisely.

[GaryN]

This may be a monitor and video card or OS compatibility issue: Acer AL1917 C <--> ATI Radeon 9000, 64 Mb, Mac Edition
When the computer starts up, the monitor works in 60 Hz mode. It is possible that Mac OS 9, as well as MorphOS, cannot determine the monitor or its configuration, and therefore the boot freezes.

My past "random" Mac OS 9 boots were successful apparently only because the video card with the monitor was able to agree and choose the right resolution and hertz. So far, only guesses.

I just bought another monitor: Apple Cinema Display 23", early 2007. I'm waiting for it to be delivered, and it will be possible to say more precisely.

Once again, you're close, but  … The boot is not freezing!

The monitor is going gray when the video output is switched to something the Acre cannot sync to.
The computer actually has booted but you just can't see it.

Your Acer monitor.  A mismatched resolution or refresh rate can cause "the grays".
Check to see if the OSX Monitor settings are unusual
* Really, really long shot: Unlikely since you're using downloads from here, but display-based extensions like SwitchRes can also give you "the grays" because they cause the card to switch to different settings when they kick in.
I'm beating this drum because:
It sounds like the screen goes gray when Extensions are loaded and
Everything works in OSX, which strongly suggests a software issue in OS9 and a good suspect is "wrong" OS9 monitor settings which kick in during boot.

Perhaps I should have clarified: Not so much "wrong" monitor settings but simply a standard Macintosh resolution the POS Acer cannot track.
When your Cinema Display arrives and works the first time, everybody is going to have to kick themselves for missing something so obvious.

(No worries… if I'm wrong, though I doubt it, I'll happily kick MYself… twice.)

[V.Yakob]

Once again, you're close, but  … The boot is not freezing!

The monitor is going gray when the video output is switched to something the Acre cannot sync to.
The computer actually has booted but you just can't see it.

Maybe so, but I doubt it. When the machine "freezing" on a gray screen, USB accessories do not work - there is no power on USB.
When I managed to boot Mac OS 9 or when boot OS X, there is also a gray screen, only it is displayed for about half a second. The power on the USB also disappears - it is clearly visible on the optical mouse, the red diode goes out.
I still believe that when this gray screen is displayed, the machine must undergo some kind of initialization, but for some reason this does not happen, and it hangs, or rather expects.

The new monitor will be on Monday-Tuesday, and everything will become clear.

P.S.
In general, I noticed that, for example, in the multi-boot menu, the image on the monitor flickers. It's unpleasant to look at it. When I open the monitor settings, the current screen resolution is displayed 1280x1024 60 Hz. But when Mac OS X is booted, the parameters are the same, but the image looks normal.

[GaryN]

Maybe so, but I doubt it. When the machine "freezing" on a gray screen, USB accessories do not work - there is no power on USB.
When I managed to boot Mac OS 9 or when boot OS X, there is also a gray screen, only it is displayed for about half a second. The power on the USB also disappears - it is clearly visible on the optical mouse, the red diode goes out.

Ahh… so typical of internet interactions. One is always acting on limited information with vital details missing.
You're correct that the boot is hanging at that point. Also, your (unintended?) pun is clearly accurate.

The new monitor will be on Monday-Tuesday, and everything will become clear.

[V.Yakob]

No, it's not a monitor.
Apple Cinema Display shows exactly the same gray screen when trying to start OS 9.
USB accessories do not work on this gray screen in the same way. I plugging in and disconnecting the mouse, while the gray screen is displayed, the red diode lights up and immediately goes out.

Not Fate. 

[GaryN]

No, it's not a monitor.
Apple Cinema Display shows exactly the same gray screen when trying to start OS 9.

OK… NOT the monitor. Having kicked myself twice, as promised, I reviewed this entire thread as best I could. Confusing, to say the least.
There's really very few places remaining to look - especially since the good OSX boot all but eliminates any hardware issues. So…

I have a "stupid" question: Have you blessed the OS9 System Folder?

I saw that you have performed at least one complete NVRAM reset. You're attempting boot. The firmware is looking for an OS9 System bootloader. That is a "blessed" TBXI file. If not found, the boot hangs.

If you know about and have already done this, ignore it… BUT, if not:

The following is Macbooting 101 i.e. really basic but I don't see it has actually been tried. So……

1. Boot OSX
2. Goto the OS9 System Folder
3. Drag the System and Finder out of the System Folder.
4. Put them back.
5. Goto OSX / System Preferences / Startup Disk
6. Select OS9
7. Pray to the ghost of Steve Jobs.
8. Restart

[V.Yakob]

I'm not alone with this problem. There are many similar messages on the Internet in thematic forums, but unfortunately there is no 100% solution.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/488979
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2464789
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/729744
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-mac-user-os-x-grey-screen-of-death-advice.39521/
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4021.0
https://ifixit.com/Answers/View/294967/grey+screen+on+mac+os+9.1+startup+(Gsod)

This may not be the most common problem, but it exists. Sometimes they talk about a dead battery, but I have it normal, I also bought a new battery. FBz tests have shown that the computer starts normally and without a battery, and passes AHT tests without errors or warnings.
I managed to boot into Mac OS 9 once, and once into the universal community installation image.

I tried to bless the system from OS X.

Code: [Select]

sudo bless --folder9 "/Volumes/macoos9/System Folder" --bootBlockFile "/usr/share/misc/bootblockdata"


[GaryN]

Well…………………………

OK.
First, let's lose the notion that this may be a hardware problem of any kind. It's not.
Second, you seem to have tried every possible solution and not only have they not succeeded, they have not even determined the cause.
So…

We're clearly and obviously missing something very basic and fundamental here, and that is:
A reason you can seemingly boot OSX and any other even non-Mac OS but any and all attempts with OS9 fail.

My last guess - because it's the only thing I can think of that hasn't been tested / eliminated is:

Something has trashed, set a flag, locked out, etc. etc. the old Mac OS from the machine.
There are really only a couple of ways that can happen.
1. An incompatible CPU upgrade.
2. A firmware problem. (This could include a damaged ROM so, technically, that would be a hardware problem. It's just very unlikely.)
3. There is no 3.

Sonnet CPU's for example, require a firmware edit when first installed and it IS possible to find yourself in a place where the machine will boot OSX but not OS9. This seems to NOT be your problem and I'm just thinking out loud here…
I'm also very puzzled about how you could have successfully booted OS9 just once…

Lastly, THIS concerns me:

And so, we can sum up some results:

1. Mac OS 9 does not boot, freezes on a blank gray screen;
2. MorphOS does not boot, freezes on a blank white screen;
3. Mac OS X 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, boot and work normally;
4. Linux (Ubuntu 14.04, 16.04, Debian 11), boot and work normally;
5. Apple Hardware Test is successfully tests hardware, there are no errors or problems;
6. Apple Service Diagnostics is successfully tests hardware, there are no errors and problems.

Are you saying you have actually loaded up and booted/attempted to boot all of these?
If so, I would now suggest a fresh install of OS9.2.2 on a freshly initialized HD - and I mean NOT a drive that has had all of the Linux, Morph etc. stuff on it and has simply been "erased" - I mean a drive - guaranteed to be freshly initialized Apple HFS+, formatted with OS9 drivers and loaded with OS9.2.2 - that was a virgin yesterday.

You say you have also reset the NVRAM. That would require all of the following:

reset-nvram - This sets up a factory reset of the NVRAM.

set-defaults - Sets the flag so that the defaults embedded in ROM can be returned back to factory default

reset-all - FACTORY reset complete.. and machine reboots.

If you get to HERE and the damn thing still won't work, the only thing left involves supernatural or alien forces or maybe just a really persistent Gypsy curse on the MDD. In that case, you're only alternative is to pass the machine along with the curse on to someone else who doesn't care about running anything other than OSX on it and acquiring another machine.

* Of course, should you actually do that only to find the replacement MDD has exactly the same issue, then the curse must be on you personally, in which case you're well beyond any useful advice you can find on THIS Forum……

[DieHard]

Damn... I have so many extra units, but I can't get one to Russia.  Move to SoCal and you have your pick free of charge

[Greystash]

Following on from Gary, have you tried doing a full Open Firmware reset?

Here's how to do it on a desktop:
With your computer off, press and keep holding the power button. You hear the programmers tone (not the boot chime), but keep holding. Next you will hear a boot chime and then the system will enter Open Firmware with the default settings loaded.
Once your computer has booted into Open Firmware you should run the following commands to reset the NVRAM contents, and any other misconfigured settings:
reset-nvram
set-defaults
reset-all

This process has saved a few of my non-booting Macs before

[V.Yakob]

full Open Firmware reset?

I did the reset in this way several times, but there was no result. Now I did it again -- without changes.

In that case, you're only alternative is to pass the machine along with the curse on to someone else who doesn't care about running anything other than OSX on it and acquiring another machine.

Most likely, that's what we'll have to do. During this month, I tried many different diagnostic and reset options, but nothing helps. The only problem is that I will sell this MDD for a very looong time.

Damn... I have so many extra units, but I can't get one to Russia.  Move to SoCal and you have your pick free of charge

Yes, there's a problem with parcels and payment now, but let's not talk about politics. When all this is over, it will be easier.

Now I have replaced RAM, installed 4x512 MB PC3200 (KVR400X64C3A/512). I know, need a PC2700, but I couldn't find such RAM. One loop of the Apple Service Diagnostics (OF and OS X) tests was completed without problems. But I'm thinking of leaving it for 12 loops, maybe under load, when the system is hot, some problem will be found.

[GaryN]

There's no problem with using PC3200 RAM. It just runs at PC2700 speed.

I'll keep thinking about this mystery and hope for a divine revelation…

[V.Yakob]

Behind 13 hours of testing and one dead memory bank that couldn't stand it.

[FBz]

These differences... of any possible consequence here?

     

[V.Yakob]

Now the plan is this: I will change the video card.
Ordered Radeon 9800 Pro, 128 Mb (PC). I will update the firmware and seal contacts 3, 11. I wonder if something will change or not. Earlier, the forum reported that this map works with Mac OS 9:http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2438.0

If there are no changes, we conclude that this MDD is dead for Mac OS 9.

[peeperpc]

I find OS 9 is more sensitive about RAM than OS X. So I would start from using only one stick of RAM in a slot.

Also, I would try connecting the HDD to the ATA/66 port, with no other drive on the cable, in case there's something wrong on the ATA/100 bus or a conflict between drives or adapters.

[V.Yakob]

I find OS 9 is more sensitive about RAM than OS X. So I would start from using only one stick of RAM in a slot.

Also, I would try connecting the HDD to the ATA/66 port, with no other drive on the cable, in case there's something wrong on the ATA/100 bus or a conflict between drives or adapters.

I tried 4 different HDDs and 3 PATA cables, and 1 SSD connected via a SATA to PATA adapter. I also used all 3 ports on the motherboard 2 ATA/66 и ATA/100
I also tried using with one stick of RAM, tried to change these sticks, and slots. But there was no result. I still did it before I wrote the first post.

The last thing I can do is change the video card. If this does not help, it will only mean that there is some problem in the motherboard.