Mac OS 9 can't booting, grey screen only

[Jubadub]

If DieHard's approach fails, one thing I do notice is that according to The House of Moth website, that MDD is using the one heatsink that apparently crashes Mac OS under a heavy load, as opposed to one of the two aluminum ones (very similar-looking), the copper one or a custom one.

That would probably have been an issue for all OSes, though.

I do have one suggestion if all else fails: kick out ANY OS X install, wipe all clean, get rid of all such data. Then try booting with an OS 9 CD. OS X being present has gotten in my way before, although not sure if quite like this.

Another idea is to burn images, ironically, on Windows using ImgBurn, instead of Toast or whatever else. There's an adware-free version of it in the Garden, as it is very useful for ripping and burning Mac discs, especially hybrid ones.

[FBz]

Surprisingly, I have never tried The Last Revision for the MDD 2003 download disc restore set mentioned above by DieHard. AND due to questions as to whether or not V. Yakob’s download and disc burns have been adequate up to this point… that last disc set has been suggested - but not yet pursued.

A closer look concerning the Software Restoration images that Yakob has listed as tried so far: (691-4872-A, 691-4873-A and 691-4409-A) - suggests that the first two discs are: Power Mac G4 Software Install & Restore (2 DVD set) Mac OS v10.3.2 AHT v2.0.2 For Power Mac G4 MDD 2003 Disc v1.0 (DVD)… while the third disc, the 691-4409-A is a single DVD: Power Mac G4. Software Install & Restore. Mac OS v10.2.6. AHT v2.0.2. Disc v1.0 2003. Maybe these were also questionable download and burns?

But maybe DieHard’s (now suggested… and last... third set) might just be THE ticket?

Yet, one would think that either of the first two sets might have remedied the situation?

“Third set is charmed”? [I hope so.]

As for Jubadub’s idea… I did the very same back in 2017 - kicked out all OS X… wiped the drive(s) completely and had NO difficulty installing and booting OS 9.2.2 from MacTron’s Rescue and Install disc download. Installing Tiger afterwards however (from a downloaded image) then proved daunting. Even GaryN was considerate enough to send me a pre-burned Tiger installation disc. But not until our Fearless Leader (thankfully) sent me an OS pre-loaded HD, was I ever able to boot into Tiger. That was nearly 5 years ago and no problems since. But I now install Tiger from an Apple Retail disc.

Again, I have not / nor ever, tried the above LAST set mentioned by DieHard.
I should really DL & test it here.

Thanks for suggestions offered thus far!
Yakob does reportedly have access to a Windows machine too.

[AtariMan]

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/power-mac-g4-software-install-restore

I took archives from here for my MDD 2003,
got 2 images, then I burned 2 DVD discs and installed the first time.
One partition will have Mac OS X 10.3.2 and OS 9.2.2.
Everything works like a Swiss watch.

[V.Yakob]

During the week, we conducted a lot of tests with FBz.
I also tried to boot from «Rescue & Install» CD image. This image should boot, but I only get a gray screen.
I tried burning the disk on both this MDD in Tiger and Monterey (Intel), but the result was not changed. I also tried to use another CD/DVD-RW on MDD, but there were also no changes.

This Friday, FBz and I decided to start the computer without a battery installed in the motherboard. And surprisingly, I started «Rescue & Install» CD image.
I performed another reboot, started Tiger, rebooted and tried to boot from the image again, but got a gray screen.

I also tried to enter OpenFirmware: Sometimes, the execution of the nvstore command returns: NVRAMRC not valid.

I tried resetting by long press powerbutton or control+command+powerbuttton.

After experimenting with the battery, I'm sure these are not incorrectly selected or incorrectly burned CD. Most likely, need to look in OpenFirmware. On the topic «NVRAMRC not valid» found the next one post

[FBz]

Out of my depths… (i.e. the shallow end of the Open Firmware pool).



Yakob’s MDD came with the HDD connected via a damaged ribbon attached to the front, ATA-33 socket. He has since replaced that damaged cable and moved the HDD back to the ATA-100 socket. No matter what he does (and he’s attempted nearly everything that we can think of) he is unable to successfully install or completely boot any version of OS 9.2 installed on a second partition, either on his original HDD or on a new SSD w/ adapter. It is a FW400 MDD. And Tiger (10.4) repeatedly installs and boots without fail throughout the many trials and attempted approaches.

Yesterday I tested 3 different FW400 MDDs here and came up with three VERY similar boot-device paths noted via printenv in Open Firmware / Terminal.



Yakob’s (on the other hand) reports:



Time for some Open Firmware nvram editing?

Or was this already edited…
to adjust for possible damage sustained via the bad cable?

More info? Read back up through this thread.

Thanks.

[zefrenchtoon]

Hi!

Very interesting quest 

About OpenFirmware, I've found an article very interesting about how it works but … another article in french 

I hope that Google Translate will be able to do its magic 

Here is the link and find "hd:,\\:tbxi" in the page if you don't want to read all (btw it is very interesting …)

https://www.pierreblazquez.com/2020/05/21/retro-demarrage-macintosh-68k-ppc/

[GuiBer]

If I can help, I have some infos about OpenFirmware :

Open Firmware Version History

4.1.8 - Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio, January 2001)
4.2.0 - iBook G3 (Dual USB, May 2001)
4.4.8 - Power Mac G4 (Mirror Drive Doors, June 2003)
4.8.6 - PowerBook G4 (April 2004)
4.8.9 - Mac Mini G4 (January 2005)
4.9.1 - PowerBook G4 (January 2005)
4.9.3 - iBook G4 (July 2005)
5.1.5 - Power Mac G5 (Omega, June 2003)
5.2.7 - Power Mac G5 (Cypher, October 2005)

Versions 4.9 and 5.2 Feature Set: 'UD' Device Aliasing, Boot Picker Arrow Key Support ...

Accessing Open Firmware

Method I: At the chime, hold down the Option key. The Boot Picker comes up. Press Control + Z to switch to Open Firmware.
Method II: At the chime, hold down Command + Option + O + F until you've arrived at the Open Firmware prompt.

Running System Diagnostics

o To reset the system NVRAM, enter reset-nvram
o To reset all changes made to Open Firmware, enter set-defaults
o To reset the machine, enter reset-all
o To display a list of all central device aliases, enter devalias
o To display information for a device, enter dev <device alias> .properties
( i.e. dev /cpus .properties | dev screen .properties | dev /memory .properties etc. )
( Note: The capacity values output by dev /memory .properties are saved in the hexadecimal format and will need to be converted to be understood by most. )
o To display a list of all utilities, enter printenv
( WARNING, DO NOT RUN setenv little-endian? true ! This will brick your machine beyond trivial repair! )
o To check for available bootable operating systems, enter multi-boot into the prompt. The Boot Picker comes up.
Note: The utility's interface and control methods may vary between versions.
o To check the system hard disk and its partitions without extracting it from the machine, enter target-mode into the prompt. Target Disk Mode comes up. Connect a FireWire cable from the subject machine to another compatible machine. The subject machine's partitions will appear on the other machine, ready for review or remote boot.

Booting an Operating System

o To automatically enter Open Firmware upon boot, enter setenv auto-boot? false
( Enter setenv auto-boot? true to revert to default. )
o To set a default boot volume, enter setenv boot-device <volume>:<partition ID>,<path>
( i.e. setenv boot-device hd:1,\\:tbxi | setenv boot-device cd:,\\yaboot | setenv boot-device ud:,ofwboot | etc. )
( If no partition ID is provided, the system will look for the first available OS on the specified volume. If none are found, the system will either revert back to Open Firmware, or display a "do not cross" symbol. )
o To boot between locally installed operating systems, enter multi-boot into the prompt. The Boot Picker comes up.
Note: The utility's interface and control methods may vary between versions.
o To boot from a USB disk, enter one of the following depending on the targeted OS (OF V. 4.9 / 5.2 Only) -

Mac OS X: boot ud:,\\:tbxi
Linux: boot ud:,\\yaboot
Linux (GRUB): boot ud:,\\grub.img
OpenBSD: boot ud:,ofwboot

Tricks

o To initialize The Boot Picker faster, enter setenv skip-netboot? true. This will disable scanning for a bootable network OS. To turn NetBoot back on, enter setenv skip-netboot? false.
o To set up a personalized welcome message for Open Firmware to repeat upon activation, enter setenv oem-banner < enter a custom message here > , and setenv oem-banner? true .

Actions

mac-boot: boots either the specified default or first available operating system environment
shut-down: saves all changes and turns off the machine
eject cd: ejects the disc tray or loaded optical disc

Many Resources about OF can be found here :

http://web.archive.org/web/20200529...ook/bonus/ancient/whatismacosx/arch_boot.html
http://www.firmworks.com/QuickRef.html

[FdB]

Once again I find myself wanting to learn French thanks to zefrenchtoon.
Yet as mentioned, Gurgle Translate did a good job translating it for me
and I read & saved that reference material from:
Pierre Blazquez, who apparently...

“messes with computers, drinks too much coffee and listens to music at max volume”.

Sounds like many of us here?
Thanks, yet again zefrenchtoon!

And then GuiBer also contributes a wealth of Open Firmware information
that is also very greatly appreciated. Have also saved this to a folder
on my desktop. Maybe we’ll all get a better grasp of Open Firmware?

Thanks again to you both for helping this old codger learn a bit more
and for providing great reference material to assist in this quest.
(And likely others.) Thank you both very much!

Perhaps we will get V. Yakob’s MDD booting and running OS 9.2
after all, with all of this help!

[zefrenchtoon]

You're welcome ! 

Another link I've found during my googling :

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/the-open-firmware-wiki.2225024/

[V.Yakob]

Thanx, I saw this post, tried to boot from OpenFirmware. I also used cheat sheets on this blog and on the website morph.zone.

Code: [Select]

boot cd:,\\:tbxi

I get the following messages on the gray screen

Code: [Select]

Loading ELF
DO-QUIESCE finished


When the car hangs on the gray screen, no matter what boot method I use -- the power on the USB bus is lost. All that remains is to turn off by pressing the power button.

[FBz]

Something wicked this way comes.

As much as I would now dearly love to blame macOS Monterey’s presence in the “download & burn chain” here for the now constant inability to install OS 9.2.2 on this MDD… I cannot confirm, nor deny that Monterey is possibly the source of the difficulties (as I do not run Monterey here and cannot test this scheme).

However, since V. Yakob can and has installed both Tiger and Leopard on this MDD numerous times successfully, I still question the download and burned installation CDs of OS 9.2, from both MacTron’s Rescue & Install disc AND the Universal 9.2 installer, downloaded first via the nefarious Monterey-running machine.

He has now completed the entire erase and attempted install routine and neither CD mentioned will install. Grey Screen!

Now, Two More possible routes?

(1). Also as suggested by Jubadub: “…burn images, ironically, on Windows using ImgBurn”.
       http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6335.msg47529.html#msg47529

And…

(2).  The “Mac OS 9.2.2 “boot kit” for booting your G3/G4 from a USB stick”.
        Again however, this would also entail downloads via the Monterey-based Mac.
        But a “boot kit” is available from:
        https://www.macintoshrepository.org/23373-mac-os-9-2-2-boot-kit-for-booting-your-g3-g4-from-an-usb-stick

Anyone gone this USB route? Please speak up.

*Not to mention the old “is yo mouse attached to yo keyboard and that attached to one single USB port”  OR is he using “both USB ports on the MDD” - one for keyboard and one for the mouse? *This caveat concern via many Mac OS retail installer discs.

Yes, now on the brink of utter madness here.

But now he’s getting a white screen when attempting to install MorphOS?
Again, MorphOS downloaded via the Mac running Monterey???       E-Vil I say.

Sorry, that’s all I got.

[zefrenchtoon]

also, don't forget to burn CD at 4x max to be correctly readable on "old" drives ...

[V.Yakob]

And so, we can sum up some results:

1. Mac OS 9 does not boot, freezes on a blank gray screen;
2. MorphOS does not boot, freezes on a blank white screen;
3. Mac OS X 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, boot and work normally;
4. Linux (Ubuntu 14.04, 16.04, Debian 11), boot and work normally;
5. Apple Hardware Test is successfully tests hardware, there are no errors or problems;
6. Apple Service Diagnostics is successfully tests hardware, there are no errors and problems.

I tried to burn discs at 4x speed -- it doesn't change anything. 
Also today I tried to make a bootable flash drive -- After choosing a flash drive, there was a floppy disk with a flashing question. I waited for changes for about 5-10 minutes, then restarted the computer. After rebooting, there was only a gray screen.
Then I used another port and then another flash drive, but the result was one - a gray screen.

I'm at an impasse.

[GaryN]

Do you know / can you tell what video card is in there?
It sounds as if the gray screen is appearing just when the monitor duties are handed over to the GPU.
There are conditions where the GPU will work in OSX but not in OS9 for lack of the necessary driver.

This sounds like a long shot, for sure… but I think that's about where this whole thing is.

[FBz]

All input appreciated at this point, for certain. Thanks!

This one…   

   

   

After running the numbers I think it’s the 9000 Pro, like one of mine below.
Both in an MDD - and with no OS 9.2 install problems here.
(From Universal OR MacTron’s Rescue & Install burned CDs)

       

It is all - and continues to be… a long, on-going mystery.

[zefrenchtoon]

What if it is a Mac card (adc présent if i see well), badly flashed … so the rom is unusable under os9

[GaryN]

Oh well…… there goes THAT theory.

What if it is a Mac card (adc présent if i see well), badly flashed … so the rom is unusable under os9

Before we get into why anybody would flash a card made for a Mac to put in a Mac…
Your Acer monitor.  A mismatched resolution or refresh rate can cause "the grays".
Check to see if the OSX Monitor settings are unusual
* Really, really long shot: Unlikely since you're using downloads from here, but display-based extensions like SwitchRes can also give you "the grays" because they cause the card to switch to different settings when they kick in.

I'm beating this drum because:
It sounds like the screen goes gray when Extensions are loaded and
Everything works in OSX, which strongly suggests a software issue in OS9 and a good suspect is "wrong" OS9 monitor settings which kick in during boot.

[zefrenchtoon]

Before we get into why anybody would flash a card made for a Mac to put in a Mac…

a Mac card flashed to be used in a PC then ... reflashed to be reused in a Mac ? 

[zefrenchtoon]

Once again I find myself wanting to learn French thanks to zefrenchtoon.

Then, maybe you will want to read this:

https://www.polymicrosystems.com/files/yosemite_bootrom.htm

found by journaldulapin (rabbit newspaper in english) 

https://www.journaldulapin.com/2022/06/15/yosemite-open-firmware/

[FBz]

Thanks "ZFT" (zefrenchtoon).

First link specifically refers to Open Firmware Ver. 1.1 (G3 Blue & White Mac) but perhaps some possible helpful references pertaining to V.Yakob’s MDD?

And the 2nd link, interesting info about the G3 “Blue” / Code name: “Yosemite” / long before the OS of the same name? Here’s the Google translation of that:
https://www-journaldulapin-com.translate.goog/2022/06/15/yosemite-open-firmware/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp